58 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHExcellence IMS article
Leading reported evidence
Install bearing gease etc etc
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
IMS bearing failures happen wether they are caused by a bearing seal gone bad, water and contamination of the oil, washing away of the factory installed bearing gease etc etc....
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
FWIW, the jury is still out on the longevity of the L & N IMS, maybe in the near future one of those engines will be inspected to check on the condition of the retrofit bearing...
Leading evidence: 'Install bearing gease etc etc' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check on the condition of the retrofit bearing' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
FWIW, the jury is still out on the longevity of the L & N IMS, maybe in the near future one of those engines will be inspected to check on the condition of the retrofit bearing...
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
What's the longest mileage you've inspected so far?
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Also, any thoughts about how much it will cost to change (roughly) - the part is $519 for an 02+ but how about the labour?
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
If so, did it list all of the changes both big and small?
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Check on the condition of the retrofit bearing
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
FWIW, the jury is still out on the longevity of the L & N IMS, maybe in the near future one of those engines will be inspected to check on the condition of the retrofit bearing...
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
IMS bearing failures happen wether they are caused by a bearing seal gone bad, water and contamination of the oil, washing away of the factory installed bearing gease etc etc....
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The only car that came close when I test drove it was a 911 and that's why I got one even though my kids are 7&5 and they don't like tight spaces but oh well
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
58 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
When your first problem is solved the 2nd problem gets promoted to first problem status.
Well, my excellence mag finally arrived yesterday. I have to say that the IMS article was really very good.
We have been fortunate to have Jake visit often and give us answers to various questions but this article filled in all the "holes" for me.
Now every time a potential 996 purchaser visits the boards and says, "I really want a 996 but I am so worried about the IMS, what is an IMS?" we can refer them to this issue of Excellence.
The one aspect that was news to me was the difference in the # of drive chains between the MkI and MkII cars. It just continues to confirm the dramatic differences between the 99-01 and 02 and later cars. Not better, just different.
Does anyone have the Excellence mag that introduced the MkII cars? If so, did it list all of the changes both big and small? Curious.
Although I have visited the Flat 6 website and read the majority
of it, I look forward to the part 2 version of article.
Since my car is an 03 and has the orginal motor, from the article it is almost guaranteed that I have a single row bearing. I was thinking of ordering one now and keeping it for that day when the CPO expires.....
Amazing Jim. I rec'd mine in the mail yesterday as well. They did a good job of pointing out the differences and why failure might occur, indicating that the harder track usage benefited the lubrication of the IMS bearing.My Porsche is a MY99 with the dble. row bearing...
Yes, I though the artical was very well written. Gave some good insight into why the IMS is failing and what Porsche was doing to try and fix the issue.
Not stated in the artical but the chain type itself was changed. MKI had a bicycle type chain.
LN Eng. IMS has a double and single row up grade.
"According to PET, here are the engine numbers for single or double row bearings* up until late 2005 then 2006 and later engines which received a larger, non-servicable single row bearing. *Courtesy of Scott Slauson
http://www.softronic.us
.
Boxster: Double Row: up to 651 12851 (M96.22) up to 671 11237 (M96.21)
Single Row: from 651 12852 (M96.22) from 671 11238 (M96.21)
996: Double Row: up to 661 14164
Single Row: from 661 14165" LN Eng.
I have been running the LN Eng single row IMS for a month now, its great.... don't have the though of IMS failure any more.
What was the total (if you don't mind sharing) out-the-door for the repair? If you're not comfortable releasing the figure I understand.
And now a question for everyone else, in terms of the 996 engines "exploding" is this the achilles heal of the engine? So in other words, assuming no other catastrophic circumstances take place (like not using any oil in the engine) will this fix eliminate the likelihood of a random engine failure?
You used the word "eliminate" so the answer would be no.
Will the new bearing greatly reduce the occurance of the #1 cause of engine failure with the 996 engines, then the answer is most likely.
Can you tell that I have been tortured by the lawyers in my company?
I'd be interested in the price of the IMS bearing also.
Rutabagas!
When your first problem is solved the 2nd problem gets promoted to first problem status.
Applying the IMS bearing upgrade eliminates the factory bearing failure point. The upgrade bearing is assumed to be much more durable so chances are high a failure at this point is reduced to the point its odds of happening *before* something else lets go are slim.
But there's that "something else".
Now this could a chain tensioner/guide rail, rod bolt, cylinder wall crack, valve head falling off, internal "freeze plug" failing and allowing wholesale intermixing of coolant and oil, and so on.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I found that a lot of the article still didn't exactly make sense to me. A lot of details that sort of went over my head. I'll have to go over it again and re-read it but I'm looking forward to Part II which should go a little deeper into the solution.
Yeah, I agree. The bottom line is that:
IMS bearing failures happen wether they are caused by a bearing seal gone bad, water and contamination of the oil, washing away of the factory installed bearing gease etc etc....
This is a potential solution to a problem that does occur with some of the 996s out there.
It did raise an eyebrow that they compared the IMS bearing to a wheel bearing.
If a wheel bearing goes bad, not the end of the world, if the IMS "wheel" bearing goes bad, much worse.
In summation, the explanation was good enough for me.
I'm almost a year on my LN bearing retrofit. It's hard to review this product when the benefit is an absence of problems, but that's what I can report. I treat my car pretty badly, in some ways, with year round city traffic and frequent short trips. I definitely get moisture contamination in the oil from time to time, judging from the dipstick. That, plus the discovery that my OE bearing was on the way to parts heaven, convinced me the insurance was a good investment for me.
I don't question the problems with the bearing. Nor do I challenge the value of the LN product. The article presented conjecture as to why one fails and the next doesn't. I think there are other factors at work. At this point, I see nothing more convincing than random chance...which is hardly comforting.
The engine number can be found on the oil pan tab. Also on the option sticker under the hood and in the maintenance manua, its the number after the vin.
Ordered at PelicanParts.com
Drop-Shipped from LN-Eng
LN-106-08-13 LN Engineering IMS Bearing Puller/Counterstay, for extraction of single or dual-row bearing intermediate shaft bearings safely and includes bearing installation tool
$69.95
Drop-Shipped from LN-Eng
LN-106-08-2 LN Engineering M96 IMS Retrofit Kit (inc. hub, install tool, retainer, and bearing), for Single Row IMS
$519.00
I pulled the transmission myself, so no labor cost. Also put new OEM clutch/pressure plate, throughout bearing, and oil cooler seals.
LN Eng. IMS
Porsche IMS
Ok, so I went to Borders today to pick up this issue. The May 2010 was out. But I couldn't find this IMS article in there anywhere? Can someone confirm the issue date?
To which I would simply reply that one benefit of being a subscriber to a magazine is you are the first to get the latest issue. Book stores often keep a particular issue in the shelf until it is sold out, or the date month arrives...
Not what you wanted to hear, but feel free to flame away at me. I can take it. I'm a subscriber.
Hi - not new to this forum, but haven't posted for a while as my hope of buying an 02 911 C2 was diminished with the IMS issue (don't have $11,000 to waste on a new engine), then I read this post
so the safest way to drive a porsche is to buy a 2006+ - by the time it goes down to my price (02 996 prices), it will be 5 years from now
anyone talked to a porsche dealer about this aftermarket bearing? Is it good, bad, any concerns?
Also, any thoughts about how much it will cost to change (roughly) - the part is $519 for an 02+ but how about the labour? any guesses
This is the only thing that's holding me from buying an 02 - RMS is not a big deal for me
Thanks
Dont let the IMS issue deter you from buying the car
.....plenty of us on here and else where without an IMS bearing upgrade and over 100k on the clock. Just use a lightwieght oil and drive the **** out of it.
Your right in regards to the rms thing...not a super big deal unless its pissing out and getting on your flywheel/clutch.
Not gonna live my life a worry wort...if it happens it happens.
buying an 06 isn't necessarily going to save you. the 06 and later cars do experience issues and the engine case has to be spilt to service the bearing.
The bearing seems to be great so far.
about 6-9 hours labor involved, without any hurrying....while the transmission is down, you can do the RMS, clutch, AOS, etc.....calculate what your time or mechanic's time is worth to you...
I paid $1600 but had the RMS and L&N IMS done ( all parts // oil change included) in Jan 2010 by my indie
FWIW, the jury is still out on the longevity of the L & N IMS, maybe in the near future one of those engines will be inspected to check on the condition of the retrofit bearing... it's possible Jake Raby or Charles at L & N has done so already
.
+1 on the 997's which need a
ALOT
more work to get to the IMS.. 08+ 997's may have had some re-engineering to the engines ; whether their bearings are bullet proof has yet to be determined
I say shop for the car you can find that has documented ownership / history... plenty of pre-owned Pcars here were purchased in mint condition at a great discount from original MSRP
Still quite a few CPO'd 996s available from many P-car dealers throughout the U.S.
If you are worried about $14K to replace the engine, spend and extra $4-5K and buy a CPO'd 996 from a dealer and enjoy 2 years of worry free motoring.
At the end of the CPO, buy the IMS bearing. It should have proven itself to be "the answer to the 996 problem" by then.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: 996s have depreciated so much that resale values almost have the price of a new engine baked into them. It's one of those rare cases where the odds favour the gambler and not the house.
People gotta relax.
Exactly......If Im driving a ticking time bomb....Im gonna have a blast until it detonates....
plus I like the reasoning of driving a car "spiritedly" becuase its good for it
.
At best it can only prove itself to be the answer to the
IMS bearing
problem. Then whatever is the next-weakest link will become the prevalent mode of failure. I doubt even those with a financial stake in the bearing retrofit will contradict that statement. In fact even now they have other upgrade items for some of those weak links.
I have an '05, technically a 997, but with the same IMS and bearing as the 01-04. Mine's on its second year of CPO. When it expires I plan to get a comprehensive 3rd-party warranty from a company I've dealt with on several cars over the years. There are a lot of things that can and will go wrong on a 6-10 year old car, even a Porsche, and the cost is often shocking on what sensibly seems like a minor repair. Ten $1400 repairs cost the same as one $14,000 repair. At some point, if and when my car needs a clutch, if the engine hasn't yet blown up and been replaced under warranty, I will consider getting the IMS retrofit, and whatever other retrofits can be done without removing and disassembling the engine.
This has been occurring since day one. We have pulled several bearings from several different engines and even have disassembled a complete engine to inspect one of the full IMS Update bearings that is different than a retrofit.
What's the longest mileage you've inspected so far? Was it just a visual/hand inspection or did you tear the bearing apart and measure the ***** and race against original specs? What's the longest mileage anyone with the retrofit has reported so far?
Uhmmm...... well to be honest, when I was back in Dallas last weekend, I did notice that there were two copies of Excellence sitting on the counter. I put one in my briefcase to bring back to SC and left the other one in the "library" at the house in Dallas.
Need I tell you whose copy is still in the "library?"
couldn't resist the temptation so I just bought an 02 w/ 2-year porsche warranty - don't know how to upload pics - grey w/70,000 kms on it
so I have to 2 years before I can start worrying - I am just going to enjoy it for 2 years and who knows what will happen after that
I have to admit - my #1 car was/is an NSX which I owned before for 3 years some 4-5 years ago and had to sell due to 2 kids - since then I was searching for a 4/2-door car with back seats that is close to the NSX experience in any of the enthusiast car categories and could not be satisfied with anything - not even the E36 or E46 M3 which I also owned
The only car that came close when I test drove it was a 911 and that's why I got one even though my kids are 7&5 and they don't like tight spaces but oh well
first , congrats on the impulse purchase...
just like us Americans here in the USA...
good to hear, since I wasn't even considering a bimmer in place of my 996
I don't feel so bad, since my skinny 6 and 9 year old boys get the back seat when the family takes a ride....
Let me take that excuse away!
(Steve - you know me too well!)
Here are my "can't miss" instructions for posting a pic. These instructions have NEVER failed to help someone post pics, so the pressure is on YOU to keep my string alive!
All words shown in
BOLD
indicate buttons. If you are just doing a "Quick Reply" you will have to click on
Go Advanced
button. Then follow the steps below:
Down below the part of the screen where you type the text and below the
Submit Reply
, the
Preview Post
, and
Spell Check
buttons, there is a
Miscellaneous Options
section followed by an
Attach Files
section.
In the
Attach Files
section, click on the
Manage Attachments
button.
You will now get a pop-up window. There are 3 buttons
Browse
,
Upload
, and
Close this Window
.
Click on the
Browse
button and now (in a new pop-up window) you can search on your PC to locate the pic you want to attach. Click on the name of the file you want and then click the
Open
button. Now click on the
Upload
button. After the file has been uploaded, you can click on
Browse
button and repeat the process to upload another pic or click on the
Close this Window
button.
After you click on the
Close this Window
, you will be back to the original "message" screen. Your pic file should be listed just above the
Manage Attachments
button.
If you are finished typing the text, you can click on the
Submit Reply
button and everyone will be able to see your great looking P-car!
If your pics are too large, you can resize them with MS Paint, or PhotoShop software, or you can do it online at this web site.
http://www.resize2mail.com/
beautiful !!! Love the wheels!!
start a thread of your own as not everyone reads "another IMS thread"
PS my kids are 11&12 and they fit fine back there... stop listening to them and have some fun!
I just realized I left my copy at the hotel last week
Anyone staying at a casita #1552 at the El Conquistador in Tucson can look under their bed for a free copy.....
Ewww, that just sounds wrong on so many levels!
I meant my "string" of helping Newbies post pics. My instructions have been successful 100% of the time!
Did mine last month (LN IMS). My clutch bit the dust quickly so it was time to pull the trigger. The way I look at it its really silly to wait. If your clutch job works out to $200 a year in use and you pass up on the last couple of years utility (with a slightly premature clutch/LN IMS), you've only lost $400 of value so to speak. In exchange you get to reduce the chances of your engine detonating to less than what...1%? I say that's worth it all day long. My point being waiting for the clutch to go to do the upgrade really doesn't make sense to me, particularly when you still have a new clutch to put down the power.
