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YOUR RESEARCH996 water temp question
Reported or suspected cause
cracked coolant tank
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No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported cause
I had the same issue and it turned out to be a cracked coolant tank.
Leading evidence: 'cracked coolant tank' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'cracked coolant tank' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean fluids are new the radiators are newish csf' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
my fluids are new the radiators are newish CSF and have been cleaned 2x this years during service
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I had the coolant tank replaced in November of last year, amongst other work (engine out) and I have noticed that the coolant likes to sit at a level in the new tank that is just below the top "secondary" bowl area.
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although it always made me nervous (on my 996, i had my hvac constantly on the coolant temp reading), i just learned to live it as i soon discovered others' 996's ran similarly hot.
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Suggestion
Only thing left is to consider cleaning the front radiators by removing the bumper.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I had the coolant tank replaced in November of last year, amongst other work (engine out) and I have noticed that the coolant likes to sit at a level in the new tank that is just below the top "secondary" bowl area.
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Suggestion
In the meantime, what all of us have done historically is run a 2 quart deep sump, of which the extra oil helps with cooling over a 20-25 min time period on the track.
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Suggestion
The invention of the UAOS Track version allows you to run an extra 1 quart of oil in addition to the extra 2 quarts of oil from a deep sump for a total of 3 quarts which further helps with oil temp control over a 20-25 min session.
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Suggestion
LN released a kit last year for the Boxter/Cayman that will work on the 996, but it only fits in the muffler area of the 996, meaning that we have to either run a muffler delete or a center exhaust system.
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Suggestion
This is different from last year and may be explained by running his rev range higher and longer to compensate for the extra drag from the aero and meatier tires, but I am not an engineer.
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Hello
I am new here, what is the actual running temp for a 996?, i have a 1999
the needle at the warmest reaches the 0 on the 180 mark but is actually past 180 and between 250, there is mark also between 180 and 250 but does reach that. which i am assuming is 215
thank you
Mine runs about the same, No worries
+1
What about cold oil pressure? Mine pegs 5 bar, until warm, then runs average 3.6 while on the road, idles at about 2. Manual says 3.5 while running warm is normal, nothing about cold or idle, though.
Put your digital readout on coolant temp. and you can see for yourself. I just leave mine on coolant temp instead of inside air temp and just switch back and forth when I'm adjusting.
If I drove a lot in stop and go traffic, I'd seriously look at 1999porsche911's fan mod.
If you have extra $$, put in the 3rd radiator. Otherwise, just learn to live with 100 degree + coolant temps.
Is this feature available on all 996s? I'm not aware that I can bring up the coolant temperature on my '99 C4, unless I plug in a scan tool.
....Rickker
Press and hold in the recirculate and the top (arrow up) buttons on the right side of the panel for a few seconds. The left screen will change. Using the + key below that screen, advance so the display reads 6c. Then press the center vent button once. The display will show you your coolant temp.
To go back to normal, simply press AUTO.
Holy catfish, Batman!! That's pretty neat. I had no idea one could bring up sensor outputs like that. Thanks for the tip.
Is there a table anywhere, which indicates what the other outputs are? I mean, 6c is the coolant temperature, but it is not clear what 1c, 2c...and the rest of them represent. I don't think this stuff is in the owner's manual.
....Rickker
i'd defer to 1999porsche911 as he's accurated commented on this issue many times.
as others will chime in, the 996 simply has cooling issues. in stop-n-go traffic, the coolant temp on my 996 often broke 219/220 degrees. although it always made me nervous (on my 996, i had my hvac constantly on the coolant temp reading), i just learned to live it as i soon discovered others' 996's ran similarly hot.
Other than adding extra weight to the car and reducing the weight of your wallet, the 3rd radiator will not do much to reduce coolant temps around town. The 2 existing radiators are enough to maintain low temps at highway speeds.
Not driving around town as confirmed by you in a previous post where you stated:
"That's where mine runs and I have a 3rd radiator. You're in good shape"
in response to the statement of"
".... i have a 1999 the needle at the warmest reaches the 0 on the 180 mark but is actually past 180 and between 250, there is mark also between 180 and 250 but does reach that. which i am assuming is 215".
If you are driving around tonw, yes. You can also hook a relay up to the speed sensor that will turn off the switch you installed when you reach a specific speed as determined by the current from the speed sensor or any number of other ways to automatically control the fans. All a relay needs is an electronic or pressure/vacuum singal to activate. You could have a relay activate based on the radio volume or vacuum or inside temperature ot any other variable signal the car provides you with. It can be controlled by the spoiler acitvation or whether there is a passenger in the seat next to you or not. Your imagination is the limit.
Or just leave them on.
BTW, the coolant temp hack by pressing the recirc and up vent button at the same time does NOT work on my 2002...they must have disabled it after it was discovered.
Doesn't work on any car with 7.8 DME or later, which is when they added variable valve lift for the 3.6L engine. So it definitely does not work on all cars.
And on the track as well especially at high ambient temps. By the way I had no idea how to check all that data through the existing system. That is awesome infomation and a testament to the wealth of knowledge in the Porsche community!
I need to understand what a 'cooling issue' is. I'm unaware of an engine failure or other calamity caused to this motor by an inadequate cooling system, and these things are certainly driven all over the world. What, exactly, goes wrong?
In normal driving my temp guage sits on the 0 of 80 (C) as the guage reads 80 - I - 120 (my money is on the I is 100). On the track (spirited DE) it rises to just shy of the I, say 95 or about midnight as the clock goes. Is this about right?
For you "F" folks I assume that sort of equates to the 180 - 250.
Never driven mine on the track, so I can't answer. I can tell you that most folks I know that do track the 996 says it runs hotter than normal (whatever "normal" is for these cars).
I can also tell you that if the temp light starts flashing, I would take a couple of easy laps and not push it.
The hottest I've seen in my car is 106C (222.8F), both in stop and go Atlanta summer driving with AC on, and sustained mountain runs.
102C seems to be average for Atl summer.
Definitely warmer than I would prefer, but the engine seems to handle it well.
It does remain very tractable when at these temps.
when I put my digital read out on coolant temp (6c), the warmest I�m seeing my 99 is at 105 Celsius, which is right about 220,221 farenheit. That�s with the needle towards right side of 0 on the 180. Not sure how accurate the digital read out is on AC display? I question if it should be that warm too.
Best bet is to plug into the ODBII or use a Durametric to read ECTS readings. I say this because my �99 would show very high coolant numbers on either the dash gauge (well past the 0 in 180), and the HVAC hack would show up to 117C, but my DME is showing only 102C. My fans were not coming on when they were supposed to, according to the dash gauge/HVAC numbers, but spot on perfection with the DME numbers. So I now trust my DME has the right info from my ECTS.
On 99�s specifically, I would always verify any temperature questions via DME as the source of truth.
That chart states " 1C " is oil temp with a question mark . Has anyone confirmed that 1C does actually display oil temp ? If it does that is a very handy display setting to use .
My car usually runs with the temp needle right in the middle of 8. However, when I start exercising her and/or on hot days (like yesterday at Thompson Speedway) I can see the needle sitting just to the right of the 0, but no more than that.
I had the coolant tank replaced in November of last year, amongst other work (engine out) and I have noticed that the coolant likes to sit at a level in the new tank that is just below the top "secondary" bowl area. Any more than that and she spits it right back out when she gets warm. I had added about 10 ounces of 50/50 the other day and she was puking it out at a very slow rate during the last heat wave. Then at the track, when I was pushing it a little in the corners, the temp needle got up just to the right of the 0 and she "self leveled" the coolant in the tank. I scared the crap out of a few folks and myself too !! Anyway, after that (and checking to make sure I didn't screw anything else up) it was back out on the track and then the open road. No more drama during the few corners I took and for the next four hours of cruising. Hey, I am still learning about the car !
It's not oil temp, not sure what it is, would be super cool if it was oil. If you drive around for a bit and watch it the numbers quickly don't make sense for oil temp.
If your car runs you already have a DME/ECU. It is the electronic control unit that makes the engine run. What he is talking about is getting a coolant temperature via the OBDII port with something like Durametric. ECTS is the electronic coolant temperature sensor.
It is not a DME hack, it is the HVAC readout hack. And no, oil temp is not one of the readouts. But Durametric can read the oil temperature, although kind of hard to do while driving.
The obdII readout matches my hvac/dash readout for coolant temp, unforch you can't get oil temp with your standard bluetooth reader/smartphone app (at least on my 996.1, anyone try on a .2?). If your dash/obdII readout don't match it means your sensor is on the way out, the single coolant sensor actually has two sensors internally, one for the dash and one for the DME.
After watching Jason's temps this season and the difference between his oil and water temps, my conclusion is we need an oil cooler not an extra radiator. Always knew the oil temps would escalate on the track and ultimately pull up water temps over a 30 min session, but never had the analytics to confirm. Now we do.
I bought this several years ago: TONWON Car OBD2 Code Readers, OBDII Bluetooth Scan Tool Car Diagnostic Tool Vehicle Scanner for iOS and Andiord
https://a.co/d/7urAUT2
Not that I am aware of, unless they just released one in the last few months. Please let us know if CSF has one that was released.
Believe it or not, there has never been an oil cooling kit for the 996 that has been made available to the public for general sale. It's the last of the solutions that are needed for the 996.
LN released a kit last year for the Boxter/Cayman that will work on the 996, but it only fits in the muffler area of the 996, meaning that we have to either run a muffler delete or a center exhaust system. Unfortunately, there is very little space in the engine compartment which is why we have never seen an oil cooling kit for the 996.
However, LN has been working on one that will fit somewhere on the car other than the muffler area. No doubt in my mind they will figure it out.
But as I said, it's the last of the solutions needed on the 996. Every other issue (IMSB, UAOS, UIDS) for the m96 has been successfully addressed.
In the meantime, what all of us have done historically is run a 2 quart deep sump, of which the extra oil helps with cooling over a 20-25 min time period on the track. After that, oil temps starts to rise quickly and swamp the water cooling ability of the car. You can contain this by making sure that you keep your session under 20-25 min by exiting the track early if its a 30 min session.
The invention of the UAOS Track version allows you to run an extra 1 quart of oil in addition to the extra 2 quarts of oil from a deep sump for a total of 3 quarts which further helps with oil temp control over a 20-25 min session.
But as you can see from Jason's track footage this season, which he is using a 2 qt deep sump and the UAOS track version, he is experiencing a significant rise in oil temps while his water temps are significantly lower. This is different from last year and may be explained by running his rev range higher and longer to compensate for the extra drag from the aero and meatier tires, but I am not an engineer. Regardless, his oil temps are higher this year. From an uneducated non-engineers point of view, this tells me that given a choice of a third radiator or adding an oil cooler, it would make more sense to add an oil cooler if one was available.
Lastly, the rise in oil temps is not something that is typically an issue for street folks. It is an issue for folks that track their cars, and have moved to the faster ranks which get the most out of their powerband at higher revs. Novice and intermediate level drivers most likely won't be as effected by this because they generally aren't on the gas and therefore revs for as long as an advanced driver.
Long winded answer, but we need to add context to the issue and solutions.
Appreciate that insight. CSF sells a center radiator but not an oil cooler from what I've seen. I would think lower coolant temps=lower oil temps. My car will run right to the end of the '0' after agressive canyon driving. I can only imagine what the oil is doing.
Yeah, I doubt you will have any problems with cooling in your car on the street/canyons as long as your water cooling system as well as oem oil cooler is in good functioning shape. Sure you can get a third radiator or replace your side radiators with csf radiators which are supposedly 20% more productive. This may be helpful if you live in a hot climate town as a just in case. Our cooling systems are actually very robust for every day driving and moderate tracking. But if you are going to track it, at the bare minimum, add a low temp thermostadt, get the UAOS track version to run an extra 1 quart of oil as well as 2 qt deep sump for 3 quarts of extra oil in total for cooling and starvation.
Believe me, when an oil cooling kit is made available, I will be the first one telling everyone about it and will finish my final engine refresh project of adding the oil cooler and UIDS and will be back out on the track.
While i don't know for certain until its tested, i doubt a 3rd radiator will be needed once the oil cooling kit is released. Which is why i have held off on getting a center radiator.
Good luck with it.
I live in NYC so while that normally doesn't seem like a hot climate when it isn't below zero its 95f with 95% humidity. Lots of stop and go traffic and the car does not seem to care for it. Already have a low temp tstat, clean radiators, new aux fan and relay. The system seems to be working as intended except that even with the low temp tstat the car still runs right to the end of the '0' and the oil pressure dips. I want to keep the M96 as healthy as possible hence my desire to reduce coolant/oil temps. Third rad seems like a good idea for additional cooling capacity for my sprited driving and traffic duties. UAOS with the auto drain is on my list
@Sam-Son
the low temp thermostat has no effect on your ultimate water / engine / oil temp. It simply opens and starts the cooling system working at 'a lower temp', hence the moniker. I think for you in NYC traffic, if you can afford it, that 3rd rad would be helpful. I would hate sitting in traffic in a Porsche w 6MT. You should get a self-driving electric toaster for that part of your day
. There are more of those made every day, and the prices keep dropping. Or, were, until pandemic and war etc.
etc.
A third radiator will not help in traffic unless you have a fan blowing air across it. In fact, nothing will help reduce temps in traffic unless it involves fans blowing air across the radiators to remove heat.
Noted. The other half of the concern is while the car is moving it still runs right to the end of the '0' I can't imagine that is great for the oil and more importantly the engine life. Like I said I want to keep the M96 as healthy as possible for as long as possible. Haven't done the AOS yet but have seen none of the warning signs.
End of the 0 is around where the oem thermostat is fully open, so probably not the end of the world. When my cooling system was pretty crapped up I'd be one needle width away from the next unmarked line, but still never got a high temp warning light.
I would connect an ODBII device and phone app to verify what temp �the end of the 0� really is for your particular car. Durametric can also be used. What matters is what temp the ECU sees from the ECTS (engine coolant temperature sensor). On my car, end of the 0 is not even 100C, which is totally fine. Not harming the engine one bit. My lowest oil pressure at the highest water temps is 1.2bar. If that bothers me, I hit the AC button and my RPMs jump from 675 to 800, and my oil pressure at idle increases to 1.75bar.
The only other thing to be concerned about is oil temperature, but that�s a whole different discussion, and quite frankly, I�m not worried about my oil temps when stuck in traffic.
For reference, Chicago City stop & go driving on a hot summer day (82F), coolant temp needle is in the bullseye of the 0 in the 180F number. I have a low temp thermostat and my OBD reader says actual coolant temp at that level is 207F.
It depends on engine rpm. At idle (780 rpm) it�s generally between 1.2 and 2 bar depending on engine/oil temp. There are many variables that lead to this including the oil sender. There are no hard and fast rules to speak of.
At those temps, with the engine running, my idle oil pressure is at ~1.6bar ... with a bit lower temp it typically hovers around 1.9-2.1bar at idle. The radiator fans were definitely on, and if you put your foot down in front of the front tires, you can't keep it there for long because of how hot these things are blowing...
Samson I live in nyc and my temp is always at the 0 end in stopngo
my fluids are new the radiators are newish CSF and have been cleaned 2x this years during service
oil pressure drops to 1.2 when hot but is always 3bar at 3k rpm
Good, sounds like it�s working alright then. Only thing left is to consider cleaning the front radiators by removing the bumper. There are threads on this here.
