Need Advice - Looks like Metallic Material in Filter

Okay, so this forum has scared the **** out of me. I bought a LN magnetic drain plug, spin on filter and JG oil. The car has about 2400 miles on the oil change/filter, was going to wait until the spring, but decided to do it today. After taking the filter apart, I found what appears to be ferrous material in the filter. The pictures below show what I found, if I was to guess, there would have to be 25+ particles. I used the new magnetic drain plug and I could remove them from the filter after rubbing the filter, but I would think I would have more on the plug, could only really get one at a time. Well, I'm not going to drive the car any longer, but need to put it away, so I was just going to finish the oil change, install the spin on filter, put the JG oil in and the magnetic drain plug. I was going to call the guy who is a LN bearing installer in Monence, IL, Bilt Racing Service, I actually talked to them before buying a 996. I don't think I want to learn on this one. I've been driving the car pretty much daily since I got it including today. Any advice before I turn the key again? Thanks!

This advice is coming from the guy who had his engine rebuilt because of metal in the filter and on the plug. That ain't much. My plug was covered by metal particles. But if you are a normal person you are not going to be able to not think about it. Time for a new IMSB.

plan to send the old oil for a UoA?

It sure don't look like much to me. How much is normal? I would ask Jake, he will give you an honest answer.

The material in the filter looks to be aluminum. A few small particles of alum. there is nothing to worry about. The flake of ferrous metal on the drain plug could have been something in the pan/sump plate since day one and just happened to get carried over the drain plug and remain. Now if you found a clump of ferrous fuzz on the magnetic drain plug... If you (editorial you) are going to look at the oil filter and a magnetic drain plug for any early signs of primarily a failing IMSB what I would recommend you do is just in case capture some oil from the draining for possible analysis. If you see something that scares you then send the oil out for analysis. If the report comes back with an elevated level of ferrous metal in the oil then you might have something to worry about. If you don't then dump out the oil sample and clean the catch container for next time. In my opinion I do not see anything to be worried about. And the odds you just happened to change the oil at the very early stage of a failure that doesn't take very long to play out is relatively small. However, it is your car and you have to do what you think is best. If what you see scares you and it apparently does then talk this over with your trusted tech and listen to what he has to say. If he recommends installing some IMSB replacement then do what he recommends. Or if you want to do this regardless of what he advises then do it. Or finish the oil change. Start and run the engine until warmed up. While I don't think this will happen remain close by just in case the engine gets noisy and shut off the engine ASAP and do not start/run the engine again. Take the car to a trusted Porsche repair shop for diagnosis and repair. But barring this happening, after the engine has idled to warm turn off the engine and (carefully -- the oil will be hot!) remove the oil filter housing and dump the oil and filter out into a *clean* drain pan. If you see more scary bits then well, be afraid, be very afraid. If you do not see any scary bits then replace the filter element with a new one and install the housing and top up of the oil and put the car away for the winter.

ha ha funny what Macster said, hes always knowledgeable and logical

Well I just looked at the filter again under a microscope that I recently obtained. 20X power. Very interesting to see. FYI: The magnetic drain plug HAS NEVER BEEN INSTALLED, I was going to install it this time around, was just trying to use it to pick things out of the filter. Either they were non-magnetic or they are embedded in the filter. However, I see different things (amazing what you can see with a microscope), some of which looks aluminum and some of which looks like a piece of metal with a "shear" on the side of it (one piece). I have been around rolling element bearings for a long period of time in my life, and I can't figure out what part of the bearing it would be, if it was from the bearing. I don't know what a degrading cage particle would look like. It doesn't look like anything from a ball, but then again, I'm no expert. I will try and find somebody who could take pictures of the filter with a microscope and post them. It's actually very, very interesting. I did get a sample after pulling the plug, you can see the little mason jar on the cardboard and I will send it out for analysis.

OMFG, you made me spill my coffee. I have seen it all now...

Ok, the ferrous piece of metal wasn't captured by the magnetic drain plug in the sump but by dragging the magnetic over the filter. The single lone piece of I guess it is ferrous metal -- it is not clear if the piece was captured by magnetic attraction or by the oil on the magnet -- still could have been in the engine since day one. If you dropped the sump plate -- and I'm not advising you do this -- you'd likely see more debris that has been there since day one. Once in a while -- a great while -- a piece will get sucked up into the pump intake and of course end up in the filter housing and maybe even lodged in the filter element. Generally if the IMSB is failing the ***** and races shed fine particles of steel. The bulk of the particles remain in the bearing. It looks like glitter of some sort. You are going to see things with that microscope that I suspect will only scare you further for no real reason. Or worse will only contribute to the already irrational fear that you mentioned you possessed along with contributing to the fear in other owners. The oil builds up a good level of particulate matter over time. That is why there is an oil filter. The stuff that is large enough is caught by the filter. Some of this becomes entrapped in the filter element. The rest is loose enough when the engine is shut off this loose stuff flows out into the oil filter housing oil and is what you see when you remove the filter housing and dump its contents into a clean drain pan. Upon the first oil change of my new 2008 Cayman S (done at 750 miles) I've seen enough of this in the oil filter housing oil to make the oil look like some kind of weird metal flake paint. The amount of metal (alum mostly) flakes in the oil gave the oil a metallic like sheen. My opinion hasn't changed. But it is your car obviously. Talk over what you found with your tech and listen to what he has to say.

microscope ?????????????????dude...........SNAP OUTTA IT.....po people beeezzz strange

This forum at times, has done its fair share to create hysteria. I'm not an expert and can only compare your filter and magnetic plug with mine. I had virtually no whiskers on my drain plug, and fewer 'metal' flakes than your filter, but your filter certainly wasn't loaded with particles.

If you look at your hair, or your skin, or your poop, at 20X power, you're also going to scare the hell out of yourself. 1) Sorry that you're freaked out. I hope your discussion with your mechanic will (a) calm your nerves, and (b) not leave him with $$ in his eyes. 2) I can only imagine what comes next. "I CT Scanned my used filter element, and I see some odd results..."

Oh, and you got some motor oil on your microscope. Bet that phrase doesn't get much use.

Am I too late to say "Don't worry, be happy"? TC

Finished the oil change, and have to say that I am not freaked out. Looking at the particles under the microscope is really cool. You can see if there was shear or if they "peeled" off wherever they came from. And using a couple other tools such as a small "tweaker" screwdriver to move the particle under the microscope, it becomes obvious how miniscule the particles are. Drove the car around afterwards to warm it up and check the oil level. Thanks for everyone's advice, I can't think that I have a pending failure in the next 5 miles. However, sending out the oil for analysis and potentially doing an oil change in another 1,000 miles and see how the magnet looks seems prudent! I will save the filter media. Close this thread out!

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My coffee almost went into my lung!

Very timely thread...I changed my oil today too! I just passed 137,000 mi. (4000 mi. on the old oil/filter) and it was a fairly nice day so I figured WTF. Good to go for the rest of the winter/spring and some of the summer.

That looks normal to me. You might want to change the way you do the oil change a bit though. Once it's draining, jack the car up and remove the ramp. Then lower the car. I have the same oil pan as you, if you lower the car it just kisses the top of the oil pan. Then let it drain for half an hour or so. Jack it back up and put the filter and drain plug back in. After doing it a couple of times you can do it without even getting yourself under the car.

[QUOTE=Paul Waterloo;11873592]Well I just looked at the filter again under a microscope that I recently obtained. 20X power. Very interesting to see.

Your microscope looks like a Pixar character. Can we call it Krazy K? I am going to work on my screenplay for Cars III: All Cars Go To Heaven...After the Engine Blows Up. Get your IMSB replaced and you will feel better.

No magnification needed.

Mmmmm yellow nails...

]delete.

I would like to see that closer in person myself. I drove the car 40 miles last night, my plan is to send out the oil for analysis and perform a short interval oil change to look at everything again, which will probably be in the spring.

Does your car burn oil?

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Not that I am aware of.

For your short interval, just drop the filter and replace, then inspect that. Add about a half a quart back.

There's a 991 oil change thread where a guy with a thousand-mile-old current-gen 911 has the same crap in his filter, and he's definitely freaking out less.

I'd like to introduce y'all to my new buddy, Mike Rowskop. He's a Porsche enthusiast, but a little concerned about some recent oil change results...

Here's a pic of my 2008 Cayman S oil filter housing oil at 750 miles. BTW, the drain pan was *spotless*. Everything you see in the oil was in the oil as it came from the oil filter housing.

I'm really surprised how much aluminum there is in the oil. I took the oil from the oil change and ran it through a fine filter, some showed up, but most of it was left on the side/bottom of the drain pan. I have no idea if other engines I normally do oil changes on have the same particulate as I have never looked for it before. I love the new oil filter guy! My new sig!

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Your avatar is hilarious I spell juice through my nostrils and spray my cell phone after seeing it LOL!!!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Rennlist

Macster- Thanks for your advice. Went and got a new Napa filter, changed it this afternoon, had 60 miles on the oil change, tore the old Napa filter apart (what a PITA) and I didn't find anything! Even looked at it with my microscope! Thanks for everyone's help.

...awesome. Love that avatar! I was just as concered with mine until I swapped it out. I hope the filter comes out clean. This would have been me a few months ago...a meme only a 996 lover would understand.

[...nevermind]

Paul your hilarious!

We just changed the oil in my friends 2014 Boxster. His 1st change @ 6k miles. It had a few more bits that looked just like those in your filter. My 2003 C2 has about the same amount of "glitter" as your filter every time I change it. The UOAs come back excellent. This is when you should get excited:

Paul (and Schnell), did we mention that that avatar is da bomb!

Love the entertainment factor on this one.

I used to think this: "You got motor oil on your microscope," said NO ONE EVER, but then I read this.

...this thread delivers the win!

Those don't look bad to me..

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Thanks for your input. After using the magnet on the drain pain yesterday, I basically determined that nothing was ferrous. And I believe that to be the case with the filter also. But I got the new avatar out of this! What a score! And it's good to know what "normal" is. Sample is in the mail to Blackstone for baseline.

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I bet Jake doesn't even have a microscope, or do you?

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How much do you want to bet? Starts at 500.00!

Is KK aka Paul Waterloo? Has anyone ever seen them together at the same time?

No way they are the same person. Waterloo drove his car more miles in his first drive than KK did for the entire time he owned his car.

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Wouldn't an MRI be more appropriate for this kind of operation?

Depends on how much ferrous material is in there. Mri plus lotsa magnetic stuff = chaos. How dangerous are magnetic items near an MRI magnet? - YouTube

I guess I breath out now....got the oil analysis back, things look normal. Now if I would only get a physical and get my own blood checked..... For now, I'm thinking it's prudent to stick to a lower mileage oil change, in the neighborhood of $2,500 with an oil analysis. Cheap money. Anybody know where the magnesium in the engine is? What could this indicate?

Calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, and zinc are oil additives. Calcium is a detergent. Keeps soot and other solids from forming sludge. Magnesium is a dispersant. Does about the same thing. There is some belief that magnesium is more abrasive than calcium. Phosphorous and zinc are antiwear additives. Actually they are contained in zinc dialkyldithiophosphate or ZDDP. The phosphate under high pressure high temperature forms a glass like coating on metal surfaces helping to protect them from wear. Zinc in some way encourages or assists in this forming the glass like coating process. In the converter under high heat the phosphate can also form a glass like coating on the converter working surfaces which spoils the converter. You need to run an oil analysis on the oil you are using fresh from the bottle to establish a base line for the additives.

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LOL...def +1

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Obviously you have some experience in the scatology department

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Just bumping this thread back to the top. This is the most I have laughed since schnell made fun of me for being nice to a female poster. Scatology? I had to look that up.