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YOUR RESEARCH996 gaining respect
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dumbest thing i've ever read
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That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum.
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And I think for cars to become iconic, they need to make huge changes for a car company or the car industry.
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It has been debated to death and no one is going to change their opinion of the issue.
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but the most underestimated thing about them is what happens in modern traffic --the cars run terribly because they cannot shed enough heat and the incidence of engine meltdown in a traffic jam is 100% if you cannot escape the traffic.
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but the most underestimated thing about them is what happens in modern traffic --the cars run terribly because they cannot shed enough heat and the incidence of engine meltdown in a traffic jam is 100% if you cannot escape the traffic.
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They're Still Not worth much as far as trying to sell one or to trade one in.
As the year is coming to an end and 2015 rapidly approaching with modern 911's gaining more technology than ever, and even abandoning naturally aspirated engines as a whole with the upcoming 991.2 does anybody else feel the 996 is creeping up in desirability?
Any car who made a difference will become a classic, I don't understand how some rennlisters will say the 996 will never be a classic, just the fact this is the first model who did the transition from air to water cooled will automatically be placed in a really important category regarding of the other issues, remember is like real state, will always looks good in 20 years!!!!
Also Porsche was completely on their own to rescue the company and the 996 did it, as well as the Cayenne. Volkswagen and Porsche always had a great relationship but now with VW trying to take over Toyota, I hope they respect Porsche and hopefully we don't see Porsche pick up, minivans and more. For the water cooled driven generation your choices are the 996 and 997.
Michael Mauer design the new 991(yes the guy who design the A-class and the Smart) so now that will tell you were Porsche is heading, so don't be surprised if we see a 911 4 cylinders, hybrid in the future, so in 20 years or maybe less will see the prices of the 996 by then.
I have heard of a successor to the 912 and even a Porsche mid engine super car in the future meant to rival the 458 but I haven't heard anything new from either.
My 2003 4S has just the right technologies -- ABS, airbags, etc. PLUS a sweet 6-speed manual --built before cars became so software-focused and over-featured. How many fuses does a 991S have in it? Anyone? I'm sure it's a luscious and powerful car, but I'm really happy with mine.
I think i might have mis-read this the first time! Desirability-YES! Most likely because you can get them for lil' of Nothing! But, as far as Collectability (is that a word, lol) No! They're Still Not worth much as far as trying to sell one or to trade one in. That's probably the ONLY reason i still have mine, cause i'm NOT just going to give it away! jmo!
Jalopnik has had several recent articles by Tavarish and DeMuro all praising the 996 - I think that we might see value go a bit up, or at least stabilize.
To nearly all the world the 996 is an awesome car, I only really see anti-996 vibes coming from other Porsche owners.
That's because nearly all the world THINKS it's a Really Expensive Sports Car! As far as the other Porsche Owners, they KNOW Better! It IS what It IS! But, for the Price i don't think you can get a Sports car that looks as good (though i'm not a Big Fan of the stock 996's) or Drives as good & Makes people THINK it's a Really Expensive Sports Car!
to Each his Own, just drive'em & Enjoy'em!
All I'm saying is what everyone else says to me about my 996. There is very little love for these cars out there in Porsche-land beyond us 996 owners. If you don't like that or don't want to hear it, sorry but the feedback is almost always negative as soon as I say that I own a 996. I think that they are incredible cars and defend them to anyone that I talk to.
I would seriously consider hanging out with different people if that is all you are hearing.
I have never personally heard a disparaging comment from anyone about my 996. I have read many negative things on this forum though.
This leads me to believe that the negativity is not very widespread in the general public, but there are trolls from time to time that inhabit Porsche forums.....
I stopped caring what others think about my personal items 25 years ago... Who cares what others think? If you do care then you would always be in the newest of new...
I am another that doesn't care what someone else thinks about my things. I like em or I wouldn't have em. As far as the 996 goes I think they all look good. Of course I have favorites but I've always liked the way the CARRERA'S looked. I also like the way the 996 drives, plain and simple, its fun to drive. If someone else likes the car then we're on the same page. If someone doesn't, then we're are on a different page, doesn't really matter.
Completely agree, as I had a 996 mk 1. I drive and tracked the car for seven years, it's a great balanced car, which is completely underrated. Having driving all the earlier 911's this was a game changer with a great interior and the best handling..
My vote is in..
I agree that the rest of the world thinks they are really expensive cars, but we all know they are relatively cheap, including the air cooled wonders. Unless someone bought a new 911 or relatively new 911, they paid less than the cost of a new minivan. They average new BMW or Audi costs more than a good used 911, air or water cooled, unless you are talking about the rare 911's like the older turbos, GT2/3's, RS, etc.
"(but then again I also like Z3 M coupe, the shoe ) "
I believe "Clown Shoe" would be the common moniker for that model...
But if YOU like it that's all that should matter to you! FWIW I actually prefer the 996 MKI headlights to the MKII "facelift" models - the MKII's look like "droopy eyes" to me...I realize I'm in a serious minority here, but I honestly couldn't care less.
I've had lots of praise, zero disparaging comments and just the slightest amount of envy from those who think they can't afford one....until I tell them how much they cost.
You're not alone in that thinking but definitely an unpopular opinion as witnessed by my locked thread on it.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ome-cheap.html
i've owned oil cooled cars (911 3.2 and a 993) and i think they're incredibly charming cars. but the most underestimated thing about them is what happens in modern traffic --the cars run terribly because they cannot shed enough heat and the incidence of engine meltdown in a traffic jam is 100% if you cannot escape the traffic. that makes the IMS bearing look like great odds.
there's nothing worse than sitting in 6 miles of traffic that is barely moving on a hot day with the heater on full and the engine temperature creeping damn close to the red zone.
the M96 has its flaws (obviously), but in the metrics, it doesn't mail it in, like the 911 SCs do or the 964 does. even the 993.
the best of the 911s are the 1985-1989 cars. they have the most robust engines with decent torque and peak HP. The SC was an effort to wind down the 911 in place of the 928. the 964 gained weight and not super maintainable engine and, historically, an oddball awd system. the 993 gained even more weight and struggled at the edges of reason to make power from an aircooled engine (twin spark design, anyone?). in fact, as a true 911 3.2 owner, i'm appalled at the weight and complexity of the 964 and 993 (even though I owned a 993). peaky pig is what I called my 993. while my 911 3.2 was elemental, I got tired of worrying about heat dissipation.
whatever people say about the 996, i think it's valuable. but only with rational perspective.
the real question is if you are buying a sports car or nostalgia? if it's nostalgia, it's whatever you want it to be. but if it's a sports car, by the modern metrics, all of the aircooled 911s are pretty laughable compared to the 1999 911 3.4, and I write that having aircooled bias.
And I think for cars to become iconic, they need to make huge changes for a car company or the car industry. So, the 996 being the first water-cooled 911 was a huge change and while it may not be very valuable right now, it will remain a game changer for the 911 heritage.
Also, every time good cars bottom out in the market, what happens is they get shipped off shore because they are worth far more outside of US. So at first it appears like there is a lot of supply but it starts to diminish fast. I mean it's cheaper for someone somewhere else in the world to buy their 996 from the US and have to deal with shipping costs vs. paying double or triple in their own market.
It is true that the 996 is not loved by Porsche people. But so what? My experience has been that Porsche people are goofier than even the goofiest Corvette guys and that the charges made by enthusiasts of other makes of car of them being posers is often true.
Most of the criticisms of the 996 in Porsche circles are totally shallow and would only matter to someone who is a poser. They hate the front end and headlights. Why? The Boxters have almost the same front end and no one said they were ugly. They only hate the headlights and front end because it looks like a Boxter and thus might cause someone coming the other way to think the car is not a 911. What a stupid, poser criticism. I have never met a single person who wasn't a Porsche nut who thought my car was anything but beautiful. The Porsche people just bitch and moan about the front and the front end and the headlights because that is one of the ways they pose.
Then there is the interior. Oh my God the interior just look so dated. First, who buys a sports car for the interior. Ever seen the interior on a Lotus Elise? It is primitive to say the least. Second, the 996 interior was supposed to go in the 993. It only didn't because Porsche was going broke and didn't have the money to redesign it. Maybe I am wrong, but I bet you anything that if the 993 had the 996 interior, no one would say a word about it. They just bitch because that is what they do.
Then there are the really stupid things like the door frame and the "build quality". Only in Porsche world could a sports car getting lighter be considered a bad thing. Making it lighter you see is reducing the build quality. A sports car is supposed to be heavy and German or something. These cars are going on 15 years old and seem to look fine. So clearly the build quality wasn't that bad.
Then of course there is the IMS bearing issue. It has been debated to death and no one is going to change their opinion of the issue. That said, whatever your opinion, the previous generations were not perfect either and most (but not all) of the people who had their engines blow up were posers who bought the car to drive occasionally on weekends and show off. The people who bought them and drove the living hell out of them and enjoyed the cars as they were meant to be enjoyed seemed to have less issues.
I bought my car to drive and use it and enjoy it. If it blows up before it is paid off, it sucks to be me but that was a small risk I willingly took. My car is a fantastic car that is wonderfully fast and responsive in a way that makes it almost feel like a living entity. I drive it every day and don't want to ever live another day in my life where I don't own that car or one like it.
In the end I really don't care what most other Porsche people think of my car. If they can't see my car for how great it is, that just means they are morons. It doesn't say anything about my car. I didn't buy my car to get street creed with the Porsche dork mafia or as a collector car investment. When I pay it off, it will be worth something and I sell it, borrow some more money and buy a newer 911 at some point. I will do that not because I want a newer one over what I have but just because this car like every car will eventually wear out and need replacing.
Well, as a guy that bought just his first Porsche in March 2014--a 996 whose engine was rebuilt 1000 miles before I bought it (LN engineering liners and IMS bearings)--I can't say enough good things about this car. Maybe the last owner--not so much.
The 996 is listed in Excellence as the Best Porsche 911 buy, for the record, and who can argue. A 911 for $22K! And this car can GO. It's a car that's simple by todays standards, not a video game, is fun to drive, not just fast--but balanced, has a huge mod eco-system, and is a pleasure to work on and learn. Now I don't mean to say I can do real stuff on it yet--but there are some great things that are nuts and bolts--take apart and put together that keep this car fun and fast. If you've owned and worked on, say a TR6--well, this is nirvana. Parts are beautiful, tolerances and fabulous, craftsmanship and engineering really nice (and seem way ahead of their time)!
Not to mention forums of 996 guys who really know their stuff and make it all a pleasure.
So, can't say "gaining" respect since I've not been around long enough, but really--who can ask for more than that?
[QUOTE=911 carrera blue;11889980]Any car who made a difference will become a classic, I
don't understand how some rennlisters will say the 996 will never be a classic, just the fact this is the first model who did the transition from air to water cooled will automatically be placed in a really important category regarding of the other issues, remember is like real state, will always looks good in 20 years!!!!
...
I have to agree with Carrera blue on this.
The way hundreds of irreplaceable M96 engines grenade every day, resulting in the worthless cars being scrapped,
the two that are left in 2035 will be worth 6 figures +.
It's funny you say that because just yesterday I experienced this first hand.
I was at car wash and while waiting for my car inside starting talking with an older gentleman and his son. Old timer told me about the porsche he owned in 1958. When we came out his son (probably in his 50s) asked me how much I paid for my car. When I told him $20k, they were both shocked. He was in utter disbelieve that you could get a "new" 911 for that cheap. Even when I told him it was 2001, he thought I basically stole it.
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