Would you buy a used Porsche from a P-Dealer that wouldn't allow an independent PPI?

Title says it all. I'm looking at a used Porsche at a Porsche dealer that is out-of -state. I requested that the PPI be performed by an independent Porsche specialist that comes recommended on Rennlist. The dealer says they don't have a good relationship with that independent and will only allow a PPI to be done at another P-dealer. The independent confirmed that it has heard this about the dealer before and says that they believe that is because in the past they have advised people not to purchase cars from the dealer after their inspection. I'd understand the dealer's position if it was based on the indy ruining one of their cars or something like that, but when I pushed the dealer for more information, I just got the response that they "just don't have a good relationship with them." Although there is another dealer nearby to perform the inspection, the fact that I can't have the inspection done by the mechanic of my choosing doesn't sit well with me. This is particularly bothersome because I don't have an opportunity to view the car in person prior to flying out there for the purchase. Thoughts?

I would simply pass on it. Plenty of other Porsches available on the market. If the dealership isn't willing to entertain your requests, I personally feel they do not deserve your hard earned money. What you're trying to do is make an informed decision as a consumer and they're not really giving you that option besides passing the car off to another Porsche dealer. With you being out of state makes it an even easier decision. Good luck!

What area of the country? Ask for a Rennfax before a PPI.

My view... Easy decision. If they won't allow an independent PPI you either walk or negotiate the added risk through a much lower purchase price. You are the buyer - you have 100% of the power in this transaction. The dealer in essence has no power except for setting the asking price (you set the purchase price). This is a business transaction, one where the buyer holds all of the leverage. Tons of cars out there so don't sweat it...either have them lower the price substantially or walk.

Agreed. If you pass on this car you'll probably find something better and cheaper later. If the Porsche dealer is selling it, I can't believe it's the best priced car out there, but I could be wrong.

Have the selling Porsche dealer include a warranty. Never mind, it isn't local to you.

agree, if they can't give better reason than they don't have good relationship, then tell the dealer they wont have good relationship with your wallet either.

I would pass on the car. Like others said, there are plenty to choose from.

Well, I am in the minority but I don't see a problem with this. There is always a concern about letting an unsold car out. If something happens the prospective buyer bails -- understandably so -- while the dealer is faced with getting the car sorted and then having to deal with selling a car that has a story behind it. Not all indies treat cars as gingerly as dealers do, or should at any rate. I would not have a problem with the other dealer PPI'ing the car. Be sure you know what the PPI involves and how much it will cost you. Since you can't be there to check the car out ask if the PPI can have someone at the other dealer, the SM or GM even, drive the car for a while just to see that it runs ok? I am pretty insistent that a proper check out of a used car involves a test ride then a test drive in the car over a 15 mlle route to give the buyer as a passenger then the buyer as the driver a chance to really experience the car as he intends to use it. Do this test drive before the PPI so if there is any leak the odds are higher it will make itself known so the PPI catches it.

Did you call the Indy to get their side of the story? It could stem from a misunderstanding/accident or maybe they know the Indy is good at finding things that might kill a deal. If you post your location info you might be able to enlist a local Rennlister (the afore mentioned RENNFAX) to go take a look and do a good test drive for you. The dealer might also be willing to let someone they think is a local buyer take it out for a 3rd party PPI. Locals can also give you their opinions of the dealer that may help clear it up too (e.g. they have a history of being a standup dealer or are a bunch of shady ....).

I don't think I'd walk on a car solely because of that, IF it's the car you want. It is after all at a Porsche dealer. They, above all, have the knowledge and skill to make sure the car is right before selling it. They will also be the most motivated to make sure of that, as they have more to lose. I haven't ever looked at a P dealer's car that had issues, in my experience the maintenance was always current..

The thing is, you are going to pay the cost of the independent PPI. Unless you have made it a requirement to the deal that they repair any problem the indy comes up with, why would they car. As an example, when I bought mine from a dealer, I took it to my indy and he said there was a very slight play in the wheel bearing (almost undetectable) . I presented this back to the dealer, they disagreed and after conferencing with my indy and looking at the purchase price, I went ahead with the deal. The point being, the dealer can always say "no we don't agree and we won't do whatever the indy says". Worst case scenario, your out a couple hundred bucks.

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Actually some argue that for, I think, justifiable reasons. If you are talking about the current or possibly last (depending on how long ago the change was) variant, then you are probably correct. For anything older the argument is that techs A) aren't being trained on the old stuff and B) aren't seeing it as frequently as many older cars go to Indys rather than the dealer for servicing. They will at least have PIWIS/TSI on their side at the dealer, but that only really helps if they are looking into a specific problem. If they know the specific things to look for on an older model will largely depend on what tech is doing the PPI and in my experience dealers treat PPIs one step above oil changes (e.g. they have their least experienced people do it). If you don't have a recommendation for a shop that works on older cars (and ideally for the model you are looking at) then certainly the dealer is probably better than the average shop that may never have had a Porsche in their bay. Another issue is the conflict of interest. It is in the dealer's best interest for it to pass it's PPI so the car sells so if they are also doing the PPI for you there is a bit of the fox guarding the hen house going on (e.g. does the tech feel he can be honest without repercussion? will the report get cleaned up between him and you? etc..).

My guess is that someone previously got a PPI done at the indy and perhaps, the indy recommended against buying the car. The dealer was obviously not happy with the recommendation and lost a sale. Hence the lack of good relationship with the indy. I understand what Macster says... not all indy's treat the car well. But if it is an indy someone here recommended, I am sure the indy is not bad. If the dealer thinks the car is as good as they say it is, they should let you get it checked by anyone you want. Or they should at least tell you why they do not want you to get it checked by the indy you want.

Thanks for all of the sage advice so far. I let the dealer know that I had concerns about not being able to use the mechanic of my choice for the PPI and they are currently checking to see if they will allow the indy to do it. I'll update once i get more information. The indy specializes in Porsche and according to them, the shop was started by former employees of the dealer many years ago which they surmise might account for some of the alleged relationship issues the dealer expressed. That being said, the indy still gets most of their parts from the dealer and apparently has a good relationship with the parts department. Any ill-will appears to be on the dealer's side only. The car is a 2004 , so the current crop of dealer mechanics may have less experience on it than the indy. With that being said, I'm comfortable that both have sufficient experience to do the inspection. I also agree with the comment that a PPI is generally not being performed by the most experienced mechanic in the shop. My first instinct is/was to walk away, but I'm taking the conflicting opinions here into consideration. I spoke with the dealer that was ok'd to do the PPI by the dealer with the car, and he commented that he thought it was a bit odd that the original dealer would only allow them to do the inspection. That actually made me feel a bit better about their potential impartiality in doing the PPI. I'd like to think that a Porsche dealer would hold themselves to a higher standard, but at the same time, I'm still potentially buying a 10 year old used car, off a lot from a used car salesman, with no warranty, sight unseen. I also agree that the dealer doesn't have to believe the indy's PPI findings or do anything based on those finding if they choose. While this particular car checks off a most of my requirements, seems to have a good maintenance history, and is probably priced fairly, it's missing a couple of options I prefer and isn't my first choice color. There are always others out there. I didn't want to request a Rennfax if I wasn't going to be able to get over the PPI hurdle- if that gets resolved, I may put out some feelers...

While it's suspect for them not to allow it, I would only allow this to slide if it were the dealer--like in this case. They've got a reputation to maintain. I have a dealer friend who says they budget $1000 into used cars because they always come back in a few weeks with some kind of issue they have to take care of. Certainly not all dealers are going to do this and none will put it in writing. I would just threaten them that if you found an issue you would be back and they better handle it.

I can understand the dealer's point of view...and if you decide to walk away that is also understandable. They trust people they know...other dealers who will work on the car as per factory specs. There are many find indie shops and often they don't agree with the factory's design or solutions. But the big issue is "who will pay for the bill" if the car comes back from the indie and someone else buys it and has a problem that the dealer feels was not there when they did their own inspection. In legal cases they call it chain of title. When the car leaves the Porsche dealer's hands they are wise to only entrust it to another Porsche dealer.

Funny thing, the most experienced 996 mechanics in my area are at one of the dealers. One guy did all his factory training around 2002. Knows 996s cold. Unless you have personal experience with both this dealer and this Indy, it's hard to pass judgement on the dealer's position. All dealers not bad, all Indys not good. I don't think there is a 'right' answer to the question. I also bet, if you are a serious buyer, the dealer will find a way to make it work.

I am surprised the dealer is even looking into it. They will sell it to the next person who has no clue what a PPI is. I had a PPI done on mine. Had the IMS done from same Indy...got the car delivered and two weeks later found out the clutch had heat damage and flywheel was shot. Go figure. They said after I asked...no one said anything about the clutch so it's fine. $4k later plus IMS so my 35000 car is now in at 41000 and I have put 1500 miles on it. I have bought three other Pcars site unseen with no PPI and had zero issues with those. What's my point...I don't know. I think a ppi personally is about as much a shot in the dark as not...no matter who does it. Enjoy whatever car you get! I am enjoying mine now, but shouldn't have had to spend the additional 1500 to pull tranny and check clutch...they were already there, plus additional labor...again they were already there... Doing the IMS. I asked this place how did clutch look...the lady says no one said anything so it's fine. Be careful whatever you choose...check for oil leaks, drive it..drive another then drive another and decide if the all feel the same...

Lots of Great advise but it sounds like you've got it all under control & doing the Essential things you need to! Keep us Updated & Good Luck! Oh, & Don't forget about the Pics!

Well, it's been two days now and not even the courtesy of a call back from the dealership with an answer one way or another. Unfortunately they aren't instilling a lot of trust/confidence. I understand the game of "let me talk to my manager" and letting me sit for a bit, but this is either a bit much or just a lack of professionalism.

With the benefit of hindsight from my own disastrous purchase my advice is: 1. Find a local Indie who does serious work on M96 engined Porsche. Not just the basic service ,R&R work.You need to see engines and transmissions out -not just brake pads and wiper blades !Of the hundreds of Porsche Indies in the Los Angeles area where I live , there are only 6 -10 experts. Do not rely on Yelp for such referrals. Ask here. 2. Take your time . 3. Make and use your own PPI check list to do a preliminary screening. Let us know what you find.We'll vicariously enjoy the hunt.

NO

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Did they sell it?

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It's still listed on their website. Regardless, if it had sold while my inquiry was pending I would think they would at least have the courtesy to let me know.

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A car dealer? Muahahahahahaha!!!