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YOUR RESEARCHBetter gear shifting
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Check with awe and they confirmed
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I checked with AWE and they confirmed that the kit will work with 99-01 cars as well.
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Install b&m undercarriage short shifter kit, along
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I have installed the B&M undercarriage short shifter kit, along with a standard 997 shifter in the console.
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I considered removing the SSK kit from the transmission, but instead changed the reduction from 30% to 15%.
Use other b&m kit, and have been very very pleased
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I used the other B&M kit, and have been very very pleased.
Use p-car shopping, and its clutch felt much smoother
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Just as a note, a friend let me drive around his '05 C2 when I went used P-car shopping, and its clutch felt much smoother on take-off than the '99s to '01s that I drove around.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Moving from my 964 to this 996, one of the few comparative peeves I had was the action of the shift lever and the inability to achieve smooth gear changes, especially as there are more to be done with the 6-speed box.
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Suggestion · Original poster
It only changes the front-rear throw of the gear lever, not side-to-side, and you select whether you want it shortened by 15% or 30% (I chose the latter.) A good thing about this kit is that the original setup is easily restored by removing the CNC adaptor and replacing the original cable bracket.
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Moving from my 964 to this 996, one of the few comparative peeves I had was the action of the shift lever and the inability to achieve smooth gear changes, especially as there are more to be done with the 6-speed box.
After following and searching various threads on the topic, I recently made two mods which have really made a difference.
First, I did the
clutch delay switch hack
, removing the switch from the bracket and jumpering the connectors in the plug. This eliminated the "dead spot" on the accelerator between gear changes and restored my ability to match revs. I was reassured that the problem wasn't an early geriatric condition, after all! The only negative is a slightly greater sensitivity to stalling at low rpm when moving between first and reverse, but not a problem once you are aware of it.
Here is a description of
the clutch delay switch hack
See Post # 38.
Next, I installed the
B&M short-shift kit
. Not the gear lever and console kit, but the mini-kit that attaches to the shifter arm on the transmission and relocates the cable attachment point. It only changes the front-rear throw of the gear lever, not side-to-side, and you select whether you want it shortened by 15% or 30% (I chose the latter.) A good thing about this kit is that the original setup is easily restored by removing the CNC adaptor and replacing the original cable bracket.
Shifting is nice and crisp, with much of the previous vagueness now gone. A mechanic at my indy recently drove my car and said that he prefers the feel of this to the B&M short-shift gear lever kit, and liked the wider side-to-side separation of the gate.
Bottom-line, a few weeks after the mods, I am very happy with the improved shift mechanism, further enhanced by the positive responsiveness of the accelerator to promote quick, smooth gear changes. Not the rifle-bolt action of the 964, but I doubt that any cable mechanism can match a (Porsche) rod-operated shifter.
Any other Rennlisters done either or both of these mods, or planning to, please share your opinions.
I like the idea of the short shift kit that attaches to the transaxle (not the 'stick in the console). B&M makes one of this type? I only new about the Techart one.
What's the B&M part number for this? Cost? The Techart one is pricey.
PM sent too.
Wow, Ive never heard of the clutch delay switch hack... and I thought I was a frequent Rennlister...
Glad to hear both mods combined to provide the right feel. I used the other B&M kit, and have been very very pleased. It took about 1000 miles for the shifter to break in - but now its nearly perfect.
I have one for sale. It's $32,000, and it comes with a car attached at no extra charge
Seriously, I had both on my cab and they are both great mods. With the clutch delay switch I just tape the switch for the track. I find it a bit too sensitive for stop and go traffic. I don't think B&M makes that shifter anymore. AWE has them for the best price I've seen
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shar...&IL=bmundercar
BTW there are two switches on the clutch -- one is for the cruise control, one is for the immobilizer/starter. There is no clutch delay switch specifically, but, I guess the immobilizer could possibly handle this, somehow. I don't think so, however.
Throw whatever flag you like. It's the upper switch. The throttle behaves very differently when shifting if you disable it. Takes 2 minutes to duct tape it up and go for a drive. The difference should be obvious. If you don't like it, take the tape off.
I guess I’d like to hear the perspective why the partial kit is better than the full?
Ivangene posted about it s few months ago IIRC; came from the Cayman/Boxster boards I think. I've been curious to try it, but it slipped off my radar.
The clutch delay switch is the reddish brown barrel shaped plunger switch. You can disconnect it from the bracket by giving it a quarter twist. Then tape the plunger down. When you do this, it will disable the cruise control. But the upside is that it also disables the 1-2 seconds of throttle insensitivity after the clutch is used to shift. I think this works on all the e-gas cars i.e. 996, 997, Boxster, Cayman.
The microswitch for the starter is white/grey and rectangular. Don't mess with that.
See my post with picture:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ay-switch.html
What I want to know is if anybody has compared the effect of the modded clutch delay switch to the Sprint Booster?
Based on your comments in
your thread you linked
that would be very telling; sounds like similar net effect.. Should try to have an impartial person drive a manual SB car vs. a taped CDV-switch car.
You're asking about the B&M undercar SSK? It's not a partial kit. There are 2 separate types of SSKs to mechanically change the leverage to shorten the shift. The more popular kit changes the shift stick parts in the center console e.g. Porsche factory SSK. The less popular kit changes the parts under the car where the cables connect to the transmission e.g. Ruf, Techart, 9ff. At one point B&M manufactured and sold both styles of SSK. The benefit of the undercar SSK was that it had 3 screw holes on the plate so you could choose 3 different amounts of shift reduction IIRC it was 10%, 20% or 30% reduction, the downside was that you had to crawl under the car to install it.
This B&M SSK kit for the transaxle says it's application is 2002-2004 only. Has anyone ever tried to install it on a 2001?
Techart has one for 2001, but it's like $700! I could swing one for $75, even if I have to modify it.
Right; was calling it partial instead of
mini
like Hambisa
So it sounds like it summarizes this way:
- Underbody kit removes forward/backward travel
- Console kit removes side/side and forward/backward travel
That’s the only difference?
The most sensible reason that I saw cited was improved clutch wear for sloppily shifting drivers.
Note that the thing seems to have one effect while rolling away in first and a different effect while upshifting to higher gears.
FWIW, I disabled the thing for a day or so and learned that I was lifting my foot off the gas too slowly when shifting, which the switch was masking. Essentially, the switch was apparently compensating for my ham-fisted footwork by killing throttle response for me while I shifted. I un-disabled the switch and started lifting my foot off the gas earlier. The effect of the switch is much less. However, it's still significantly easier to rev match on downshift with the switch disabled. In the end I decided that the switch was there for a reason so I might as well just leave it as it was delivered.
Bottom line is it's a 1 minute process to disable the switch and a 10 second process to un-disable it. Far more efficient to try it for yourself than to attempt to decide whether or not it's worth trying.
So, the guys who removed their clutch helper springs and sacrificed cruise control are stuck with a switch open all the time - messing up the throttle response?
I don't get this. I've always been a pretty smooth stick shift driver--until drive-by-wire came along. I've never been able to shift my wife's S4 well, even after the chip, which helped a lot. You roll off the clutch and back into the throttle... and it either comes on too fast, or there's a big dead spot and you lurch forward.
And now the 996. From the off-idle dead spot, to the v-tec changeover at ~3100 rpm, to the ECU that's trying to outthink me, no wonder I can't drive this car smoothly. Of course, the minute I'm going more than half throttle, and upshifting above 4000 rpm, everything suddenly becomes smooth and intuitive.
Yeah, yeah, I know it's a Porsche, but I have to drive non-car-people around from time to time. It's pretty lame that Porsche couldn't engineer some low speed manners into this thing.
yeah jon ↑.
i dont like the drive by wire system. there is nothing like the feel of a real connection between the foot and throttle. tip in is weird, its like pushing a hammer through butter when your used to a knife.
and we never really know what the ecu is doing with all its 00000100101010101010's
I checked with AWE and they confirmed that the kit will work with 99-01 cars as well. That's a pretty good clearance price. Anyone have instructions on how to install? How easy? The sales guy said it should not take more than 2 hrs to install, but easier with a lift...
$65
I searched around, and it's not clear to me why this approach is so out of favor. Installation is one factor, but how does it compare--functionally and feel--to a short shift lever?
I saw that. I'm gonna call them about that; I still had a link open in another tab of their site from yesterday with $65 on there. That sucks of them, regardless of it "just doing business".
I got one at $65. I had a feeling they might jack the price once they ran out.
At $65 it's a must have, at $223, not so much.
Looking forward to shorter throws! For a performance car, the Factory throw is just to long.
Speaking of throws, I know that this kit only changes the front/back distance, not the side to side. That's fine. But if using this SSK with the factory shifter, does it need any cable adjustment?
It got me thinking to look at mine: once in gear, the (factory) stick can still be moved side to side about 1/4" or so (from memory, not sure exactly what it is).
Can that be dialed out, or is that wear? Or is that normal? Would it adversely affect this SSKs working well?
I bought my kit from Titan Motorsports
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/bmshsh.html
for $75 last month. Their website only shows the gearlever kit now, but they may still have the undercarriage kit in stock, which is B&M # 45183. I have not driven a car with the console short-shift kit installed, but my mechanic has and said he preferred the action of the undercarriage version.
Disabling the clutch delay switch has removed a lot of the drive-by-wire feel from the accelerator. It drove me crazy that every shift I was either over-revving or lurching, even if minimally, and consistent smooth gear changes seemed impossible. Now shifts feel natural again and I can do them without having to think about it every time. No downside for me. One poster in another thread somewhere said that the cruise control cut-out still worked after disabling the CDS, but I have not tested it myself. My habit has always been to cancel CC manually or with the brake pedal when approaching traffic or if a gear change may be required.
Thanks Ian. I also just found the kit on Titan, and they had it, and I ordered it! I'm OK with $75 instead of $65, and certainly instead of over 200 bones!
Thanks too for the description of your problem and how the switch made the car drive different. I thought I just didn't know how to modulate the clutch properly and was hoping I'd get better! Lol! Now I know it's not just me having the issue. I'm gonna try the switch mod and see what happens. I always thought I was good at clutching (we won't go into heal-toe though!) but I started to doubt myself with this car.
Just as a note, a friend let me drive around his '05 C2 when I went used P-car shopping, and its clutch felt much smoother on take-off than the '99s to '01s that I drove around. Maybe the newer P-cars have updated software??
Just got mine today from AWE for $65 + $6.51 S&H, ordered yesterday, I'm only a few hours from them. The ad DID say clearance discount, so I'd guess they ran out. Phew! Can't wait to throw it up on the lift and install it! Instructions are pretty well illustrated and look pretty easy, with a lift or stands. We'll see how well it works with a 997 console shift assembly. I'll take some pics.
Cool. Mine shipped yesterday from Titan, $75 with $7 for shipping (FL to CA), will be here Monday. I'm stoked to see what difference it makes
I'm gonna bypass the clutch microswitch first, to get a full set of data: no-bypass/stock-shift, bypass/stock-shift, no-bypass/SSK, bypass/SSK. Maybe I'll completely dork out and take full notes so I can fully analyze the experience.
Whenever I get the time to do the work, I'll take picts of the SSK install and switch bypass and post them here and on the DIY section of RennTech.
FWIW
I have two 996s in the garage right now. The cab has the B&M undercar SSK and the coupe has the console SSK (not sure about brand, might be B&M). Keeping in mind that the undercar SSK has about 2X the miles on the tranny and shift mechanisms, here are my comparison of both types of SSK:
- Both shorten the front/rear shift throws.
- The left/right stick movement is near identical as far as I can tell.
- Both make the shifting action a little more notchy and stiff compared to stock.
- I have the undercar SSK set at the maximum reduction, 30%. This makes the front/rear shift distance slightly shorter than the console SSK. If I had to guess I would say the console SSK reduces the shift in the 25-20% range.
- I don't know if this is attributable to the difference in the SSKs or other factors e.g. different wear and tear, but the shift action on my undercar SSK feels slightly more "spongy" H gated feeling. The console SSK has a slightly firmer H gated feeling, more rifle bolt-like if you will.
- The undercar SSK has 3 settings: 30%, middle, and 15%. I don't know what the middle setting is.
Here are the instructions for the undercar SSK posted on renntech.org
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...e=post&id=3859
Keep in mind that the stick throw distance is also a function of the length of the shift ****. If you have an aftermarket shift **** and like to keep it short and stubby, 30% shift reduction will probably make it too notchy and stiff. Whereas, if you like a longer extended shift **** so it's closer to the steering wheel, 30% is great.
Thanks, that's some great information.
Do the ball joint connectors (at the transmission end of the cables) get worn? What are they--delrin or something?
I'll be trying the under car at 15%..i hated the notchiness of my console B&M so I yanked it out and put in the 997 with a shorter Porsche "S" ****. I've been very happy with this combo, the **** made a huge difference, more noticeable than the 997 shifter IMHO. For $65 it's worth trying to shorten it a little. Easy to resell, if I don't like it.
Also interesting to note that the shift cables were superceded FOUR times--every year from 2001 to 2004 there a new part number. Wonder what the problem was...
I have installed the B&M undercarriage short shifter kit, along with a standard 997 shifter in the console. I put in this combination because I had read so much about the how notchy the B&M console SSK felt. I have to say that I am extemely happy witht he combination. The 997 shifter is really smooth and the 30% reduction in the throw via the undercarriage shifter is heavenly.
Installing both was pretty straightforward but a little time consuming. Having a lift will make it easier to install the undercarriage bracket, which pretty much is all it is. Remove (2) cables from bracket, take out bracket, install new bracket, re-attach cables, and your done. No alignment of any type necesssary. Plug and play.
Gents - I have a problem with how my shifter is handling - some advice please.
I have no short shift of either kind installed, but my previous 996 did so I am very familiar with the ssk feel. I have also driven a third 996 with a stock shifter and it feels different (better) than mine so...
Since I've owned my car (5 months now) second gear hasn't felt quite right. Basically, it doesn't feel like it's landing all the way. I also heard a story once, that the G96 boxes have an issue from the factory with the dogs not always engaging completely - leading to failure....I only heard the story once, but putting it together with my impression of my second gear engagement and I'm a bit concerned.
The question is...can I adjust the length of the throw on a stock shifter. Naturally I would be trying to extend how deep I go when I go to second. Is there any adjustament mechanism either under the console or at the transmission???
Thanks
Although the B&M SSK adapter on the transmission shortened the throw on the gear lever, it still felt sloppy and imprecise. Last week I ordered the 997 shifter assembly (997 424 010 00) from Sunset Porsche for $173. It arrived on Friday and I installed it that evening, using the instructions from the B&M web site to remove the console. Apart from a bit of a hassle to release the **** from the old assembly, it was a pretty straightforward DIY, and the alignment tool that came with the new unit eliminated the need for adjustments.
I considered removing the SSK kit from the transmission, but instead changed the reduction from 30% to 15%. After 100 miles with this setup, I am really happy with the feel and precision of the new shifter. The 997 unit is so much better than the original 996, it is totally worth the outlay to make the swap, even without any SSK extras.
On a related matter, concerning the Clutch Delay Switch hack, I discovered an interesting issue with disabling it. Not immediately, but a short while after fixing the switch in a closed position, the cruise control will not switch on. The dash light comes on with the ignition test, but is not available when driving. Restore the CDS, and after a while the C/C will work again. Bummer, because I really hate the clutch delay effect.
Cheers,
