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YOUR RESEARCHjust installed ebay headers...look
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Clean every transition
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every transition has been cleaned up on the chinese headers i recieved.
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I'm running a e-bay clone$500 of the GHL exhaust$1k on my Boxster, it was fine for 2 years(all my buddies have never had an issue with theirs).
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post one before and after dyno as tested by someone on these forums and i will paypal you or anyone $20 for your trouble.
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by the way they came with gaskets which i used but i opted to use brand new header bolts from pelican instead of reusing the header bolts i removed.
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Suggestion
When I decided to put the X51 headers on my 06 997S I found that the OEM X51 headers were not that clean inside.
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I made the change for the sound mostly, and most of us would find that in order to objectively collect pre and post change dyno numbers will find that it's quite difficult, what with all the variables.
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I made the change for the sound mostly, and most of us would find that in order to objectively collect pre and post change dyno numbers will find that it's quite difficult, what with all the variables.
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im new to the porsche crowd and this forum. just picked up a 02 c4s with 30k miles. love her. baught the cheapest set of headers onebay-$85 new stainless. they fit great. took a couple hours to instal. cake.
the build of the headers is impressive. ive done a lot of fabrication and have seen a lot. these evbay headers are built well and the fit was almost perfect. i dont know if my car is any faster but it sure sounds great now
OK, I'm always looking for a good deal, but $85 for stainless steel headers for a P-car!?!?!
Come on, are the made of stainless steel foil? If something looks too good to be true, it probably is.
had to loosen the clamps at the the very back of the exhaust right behind the bumper. 3 bolts to loosen on each side. you can see all three bolts in the 3rd picture. so easy. have a buddy help you position them. we have a hoist which makes it too easy but a couple ramps would be cake too. torque them to 19ft lbs
even if you they give 15hp you would never be able to tell. would have to dyno. but the build is so nice vs the factory piece i cant see how they could hurt. i drive this car hard whenever im in her and I let her wind out to redline with the new headers last night after the install. has a much more distinct "bark" especially at the lower rpms where the factory exhaust just sounds so weak untill 4000 rpms.
why arn't others installing the headers? even for the cheap sound improvement if nothing else?
i was doing some reading just now about how great the oe porsche exhaust manifold is. its not bad but look at the pics. the oe manifold doesnt look so great to me
in the first pic notice how the oe flange is a 2 piece part. the primaries are welded to the flange on the inside and have a large weld lip as seen poorly in the second pic
in the 3rd and 4th pics you can see the inside of the oe header. smooth as glass eh
in the last pic you can see how the primaries hit the log at fairly sharp angles.
It could be worse and the proof is in the dyno but why not?
the welds on the chinese job are nice. I wish i had some pics of the cone on these. nicely done and clean. They may blow apart within the week but for now they look great. by the way they came with gaskets which i used but i opted to use brand new header bolts from pelican instead of reusing the header bolts i removed. and the oe header bolts came out easy
for comparison i just shot some pics of a couple of my dads ford motors with factory headers and some aftermarket ford stuff. these ford "headers" blo and the inner cones make one want to puke
Well when one is trying to sell more $85 headers, you never know how many orders will come in on a wing and a prayer.
Joined Oct 2009.
Six posts.
All in this thread.
Ebay business must be slow.
WTF
I post some pics and try to get involved in what looks like a cool forum and the response is that I am trying to sell headers.
whatever. they sound great.
"you get what you pay for"
What the hell does price have to do with it? if the part is fabbed well it is fabbed well. the fact is that a tallented chinese guy builds them all day long and has perfected great looking welds.
and the thread that was referenced about loosing horsepower is total BS. no dyno posted and the guy admits he had the gasket on wrong. am i missing something?
Don't take it personally, In most cases when someones first post is: "
hey looks at this, it's the best product ever
"
Well, it's usually someone trying to sell that product.
In any event, Welcome to Rennlist! Post some pictures and details of your car!
no harm done. kinda fun to be challenged anyway. That way i can show why im right....
Its wise to be carefull of the ebay stuff. Especially if you plan on bolting to something as nice as a porsche. But far as cheap as all those ebay headers are going its worth a shot. they all look the same to me
searching this forum I can see not much power is to be gained from headers. looks like the mod is good only for sound
I don't even own a 996 and bought the headers to take a look at them. I thought they were just too good to be true. $100 shipped to the door?! I don't know how they fit but the welds and collectors don't look bad at all.
I still don't think I'd put them on my car tho. Ebay and Porsche just don't seem to fit well lol. They are just a conversation piece about how the h*ll they could make money on these now.
All we are trying to say is that you got Played buddy, should have "Searched" before buying them... now your car is slower than a Stock 996... Dont take it to heart...
I have seen the Fabspeed headers, and other headers costing $800+ and don't see much difference. My gues is that if the Ebay headers reduce your power so do the others. Most headers will reduce your low end power in a trade off for more power in the upper ranges.
I have since searched the hell out of it. And the sad truth is not a single dyno of ebay headers has ever been on this forum or on the 6speed online forum or on the pelican forum. post one before and after dyno as tested by someone on these forums and i will paypal you or anyone $20 for your trouble. if not shut up and sit down.
All i have seen is a bunch of people talking for pages about how there is no way a header that costs as much as a good meal could possibly be of any quality. A bunch of talk and no tech or trial.
a few years ago I built this turbo for my rock crawler lexus out of steam pipe weld ells. I welded the manifold with a Miller 175mig and got 15,000 miles out of the manifold before it cracked.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...rbo-build.html
too many people said it wouldn't work and it did. too much talk and not enough do
when the mebay headers arrived a couple weeks ago i took a few pics with my wifeys camera. she still has them. here they are.
They look nice!
I was kind of wondering where these posts were going to go after the OP posted the original picts. I mean, laproscopic didn't have any links to any ebay sellers, no offers to sell, just sort of a "hey, check this out" and everyone pounced on him and tore him up. I was like, "mental note, don't post any picts of headers I've bought that cost less than $1000. But still, if I did that, then I'll just be told I got taken to the cleaners instead. LOL!!
Oh, such fun on this site to see how everyone reacts. It's like a sitcom.
Laproscopic, don't take it personally. I'm pretty much a newb, but I don't get the feeling too much flaming goes on here. It's all in pretty good fun. Or, maybe I just haven't had a good dish of Ed yet.
nah it just fun. no offense.
but seriously i cant even find a single independent before and after dyno chart for ANY headers. not even for the evo's or other expensive ones.
has there been any independent testing of headers at all? Any motor that spins as fast as the ones in these pcars should see some benifit with headers.
really? - you mean someone DOESN'T know ?? - maybe I will start a new thread as opposed to jacking the OP's here
SORRY OP - I have been known to get OT
I think it's cool that laproscopic bought a 911 and immediately lifted it and started to mod.Whether his headers are an improvement or not, he can always switch them back to OEM if they end up reducing power.
True.
The Porsche world has way too many vendors who sell ridiculous products at ridiculous prices, and owners line up, pay their money (then pay for installation) and have cognitive dissonance-driven arguments about their chocolate teapots and how great they are.
If you're really the sort of fellow who welds up turbo manifolds yourself, welcome to the forum--it needs a lot more guys like you.
And if you are importing those headers, how about sourcing an intake plenum for the $35 that it's worth?
That true, you also forgot:
The Porsche world has way too many vendors who sell ridiculous products at ridiculous prices and making
Ridiculous Performance claims
!
sorry, I realy am not selling headers but ill bet that someday, when the chinese headers are all gone, people will wish they had baught some
How the hell do people pay prices like these for the plenums? Slap together a couple pieces of 16g exhaust and have it powdercoated and you are done. i have enough scrap exhaust elbows sitting in the shop to build a dozen pair right now
Sure. It’s easy to copy someone else's work.
Try this business model: take your own hard-earned money, design your own unique product, test it, manufacture it, market it, and sell it. Let me know when you become profitable, until then
'shut up and sit down'
, slick.
I can't speak for the NAs, but there has been some testing on aftermarket headers for turbos...what was found was the best gains for a reasonably modified TT was to port/polish the stock headers. The length of the stock headers was just about optimal, so cleaning them out for flow perhaps helped a bit. Now if you go to big hp, like 650+ different story. Many of the dynos are not publicized for aftermarket headers as they don't show any gains (and even show some losses)...not a great marketing tool. If you are really interested in the testing talk to some of the known tuners (like Kevin at UMW) for the real data....
Hey thanks Lapro-I have been thinking about these "inexpensive" headers for a while. Just don't know too much about headers, welding, etc. If you say they are good, I'm buying some. I'm looking for more noise from the back end and not necessarily interested in more power (I rarely use the HP I have) BUT, I love the noise when I want it.
Anyone out there have a set sitting in the garage they want to get rid of?
PM me
Yeah this is always what I've been hoping to have time to do , just a little polishing, and would like to clean out the carbon deposits etc. while in there.
I didn't see anything about laproscopic planning to copy anyone else's work. There's only so many ways you can make them
without
"copying" them.
Anyway, welcome to the forum, laproscopic. Like someone else said, it's always nice to see someone that's willing to get their hands a little dirty.
Dyno, in China, man...
Anyway, $85 is quite going rate for headers made in China. The labor costs there nothing. I mean the cost involved in fabricating those headers is less than $5, the rest is material, shipping and profit for the factory and seller. I quess when those leave PRC their price is about $40.
They sell over there 18" alloy wheel sets for $80. And fully upholstered bucketseats for $120/pair. And yes, I've been to China many times and during time off I've walked through some car parts markets.
If some vendor isn't clearly stating that their parts are made in D or USA, they've probably been made in PRC, and the profit is huge...
BTW, a good copy works like original, bending & welding metal tube not rocket science.
@ Whitey......People steal each others' designs for a multitude of reasons. Welcome to capitolism.....and laproscopic isn't after that.
Keep us up to date on what you find lap.
I'm running a e-bay clone$500 of the GHL exhaust$1k on my Boxster, it was fine for 2 years(all my buddies have never had an issue with theirs). Developed a small crack,called the vendor,he sent a replacement promptly on his dime. Couldn't have asked for more. Even dynoed at all gains across the power band on my buds Boxster. Heck even Bilstein left my buddy hanging for months before they decided to refund him for his PSS9s,that's a $2k product from a well known source.
Money doesn't always=quality.
whats funny here is that you still had to pay $500 for the "clone" version. buy that part for most all other cars (domestic, import, etc) and the price is still too high
That said I still would rather have my porsche. she's just so fast and fun to drive. im willing to pay a bit more to have the porsche aftermarket stuff. But it takes some of the fun away when you know how much your spending for this stuff
thats why i love rockcrawling. with rockcrawling the parts are far from precise and there is no need for tight tollerances. easy to make in your backyard. here is my rock lexus
I tore apart a 1 ton dodge truck to put its axles under my lexus. now i wheel in style with wood accents, climate control, and a sunroof. my jeeping buddies dont know what to think of my truck. and my Dr buddies just shake their heads when i park her at the hospital. sometimes i want to park her on a mercedes
Say... my porsche is all wheel drive...anyone tried to lift one yet?
here is the build of my truck
http://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-cor...j80-build.html
When I decided to put the X51 headers on my 06 997S I found that the OEM X51 headers were not that clean inside. The original 3.8 headers were cleaner (from a flow perspective). Prior to installing them I spent some time cleaning them up to improve the flow. I think that aspect of new or different headers is important. I made the change for the sound mostly, and most of us would find that in order to objectively collect pre and post change dyno numbers will find that it's quite difficult, what with all the variables.
3.8 headers compared to the X51 headers
Before port cleaning
After port cleaning
Port cleaning tools
way to do it yourself.
as i look at the oe porsche header i just took off my 996 i am under the impression that the primaries are welded to the flange on the inside of the tube (the tube is welded to the flange from the inside) and not on the outside. Such seems to be the case with the header pics you just showed. if this is the case wouldn't that port job compromise the header as you have removed the weld that was holding the tube to the flange?
however if there is a weld on the outside of your header you would probably be ok
and if you have run that ported header on the motor and it is holding than all must be fine. have you put some miles on those ported headers?
I am glad someone tried the inexpensive headers. The header design for the factory ones and the aftermarket ones is pretty basic. If anyone has ever looked at NASCAR or drag racing headers where the exhaust is tuned for the specific torque curve of the engine, those primary tube lengths, diameter, and collector length all come in to play and make our stock "headers" look like old school iron manifolds of the 70's. For the price some of these aftermarket suppliers are asking for stainless headers I would expect to see some dyno numbers, some titanium, or something resembling a Moto GP or Formula 1 exhaust.
I have in excess of 20,000 miles on these X51 headers, as cleaned up.
Is that Laparoscopic, or Laproscopic? (The first is the way we spell it in medical circles).
If clinically speaking the headers have held, then the port job is proven in this case. However n=1 and further retrospective analysis would be helpfull.
Im in the circle and unfortunatly spell accordingly.
And I agree the parts are a little steep for these cars. But then again the markets determine the value and the markets have spoken.
so lapro= can you measure the tube diameter on both oem and the "ebay" header primarys? it took 3 pages for all these wise guys to ask? that should be the first thing asked when debating the worthiness of a good header. ive been hot rodding since i was in high school and header tech is still the exact same people! geez i cant be the oldest fart in here?
good header= smooth flow/diameter (and build quality of course)
oh and ide like to see the inside of the tubes, similar to the pics you took of the oem's
good point
here is the only pic i have of the flange to tube transition. its hard to see but the transition is clean. every transition has been cleaned up on the chinese headers i recieved.
ill measure the tubes tom. but they looked approx the same
So,I wiggle out of a date Friday night to put the headers on. Drivers side bol tholes will not line up ! Damn #$^% , 3 *%@# hours,stock off-not on-stock on-stock off -not on-off-stock back on. I am bummed !
bummer bro
perhaps I have the only good set in North America. Or....perhaps your pcar wasn't put together properly. (LOL)
which holes dont line up? Is it the engine flange or the cat side flange? or do both line up on their own off the car but not on the car? when I did mine the cat side was a bit tight. And dont do this without a buddy. (Invite the wife/girlfriend...no dont)
perhaps a few of the holes could use a little enlarging with a larger bit or a few strokes with a file.
I measured the primaries on the chinese headers and on the oe header. they are bothe the same: 2 5/8 inch
