71 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHC4S on BAT auction
Leading reported evidence
Replace marker lenses, and a tune
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Mismatched tires, changed marker lenses, and a tune.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
my point is that purchasing a car from internet auction using photos/discussion on internet and not physically inspecting car in person or with qualified PPI shop is just plain stupid - theres just no argument.
Leading evidence: 'Replace marker lenses, and a tune' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Inspect car in person or' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Read the above and then note that I am running Sumis.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
my point is that purchasing a car from internet auction using photos/discussion on internet and not physically inspecting car in person or with qualified PPI shop is just plain stupid - theres just no argument.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If I was staging a car for auction, I would have new or like-new N-rated tires on it, both because that point is important to many people, and because some people will infer that if you chose one tire over a "recommended" tire because it was less costly, you might have made similar decisions about the car based solely on cost.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
on subject car, is this IMS repair flange sealant supposed to look this gunky around the flange?
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Inspect car in person or
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
my point is that purchasing a car from internet auction using photos/discussion on internet and not physically inspecting car in person or with qualified PPI shop is just plain stupid - theres just no argument.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If I was staging a car for auction, I would have new or like-new N-rated tires on it, both because that point is important to many people, and because some people will infer that if you chose one tire over a "recommended" tire because it was less costly, you might have made similar decisions about the car based solely on cost.
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Suggestion
Ok...so on the inspection and work sheets I see at least two references concerning water pump leaking and don't see any documentation that water pump was changed even though the drive belt was...?
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
71 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261027T035758Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
$30-32K+, unless the auction goes viral or something, or it a sleeper and someone snags it cheap.
it's got pretty low miles and seems like a well sorted car.
best years of the bunch.
but I'm biased with my 2003 C4S.
Wow, after hearing of IMSB failures with no warnings, he flatbedded the car to his mechanic for a preventative IMSB replacement? I call bull**** on that flatbed ride story.
Odd that someone willing to flat-bed their car to the dealership for a bearing replacement is running Hankook's Evo. I'm running Evo2's, but I wouldn't be if I was trying to auction my car and wanted to make it look like the car had been pampered...
on subject car, is this IMS repair flange sealant supposed to look this gunky around the flange?
Shouldn't he be worried of the gunk likely protruding on the inside of the flange?
IMG_5198_1_-465x620.jpg
I had my car shipped from FL to Flat 6 Innovations to have the solution done and shipped back to me. I have no regrets shipping it.
Read the above and then note that I am running Sumis.
No, it shouldn't look like that. Mine did not.
This.
Noted. Is this your car? If so, good luck - hope you make a s**t ton of money. If you DO make a s**t ton of money, please post a big f-you in the air-cooled forums for me.
If not, why so defensive about someone else's C4S?
Since it wasn't done at a certified installer, this brings up a good point since there doesn't seem to be any prequalification done to see what the current condition of the motor was before it was retrofitted.
Very good point, indeed, Alp!
This input, if you were registered at BAT, would certainly disrupt BAT's seller's proceedings a fair amount!
It would almost be fun to watch!
Not my car. Just don't understand what tire choice has to do with having your car towed to a shop. I put sumis and handkooks on my car not because I can't afford Michelins, but because I realized I don't need to spend another 1000 for the 15% performance difference on a car that will never see a track day.
I would not buy this car. The weird IMS flange picture and the fact that it may have been an IMS failure car is not appealing to me
>Just don't understand what tire choice has to do with having your car towed to a shop.
The tire choice has nothing to do with the tow to the shop. The car is being auctioned; the photos show the car equipped with Evo tires. If I was staging a car for auction, I would have new or like-new N-rated tires on it, both because that point is important to many people, and because some people will infer that if you chose one tire over a "recommended" tire because it was less costly, you might have made similar decisions about the car based solely on cost.
Someone who is willing to flatbed their car to a shop upon learning of the existence of the IMS bearing issue appears to me to be willing to spend freely to keep the car optimally maintained. I also - perhaps erroneously, perhaps not - imagine this to be the type of person who would also insist on an N-rated tire in spite of the existence of many tires that exceed the load, speed, and temperature requirements of many "approved" tires.
if anyone is serious I live nearby (have never seen the car around if you're curious) and, schedule permitting, could offer a RennFax.
I am not a professional mechanic, and did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I do own a 996TT and cross shopped the C4S when I was looking a couple years ago.
Wow car went for $36500 plus I believe buyer has to pay BAT a 2.5% fee
Personally I thought this one listed on Rennlist last year was a cleaner nicer example and it sold for less:
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...-32-911-a.html
Filed this in the history books. There are two for sale up here in the PNW in similar shape:
2003 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA 4S COUPE - Seal Gray - $40k - 20k miles
2003 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA 4S - Graphite - $38k - 28k miles
Not sure why you folks can't accept that C4S's are selling in the 30k-39k range. I know none of you would pay 30k-39k but the ROW will. And, I did and would again. Besides, everybody knows Porsche pumps in an extra 25hp on all C4S's, geez.
Because we have seen good deals in the mid to high 20s and low 30s on the enthusiast forums but if they're fetching higher prices elsewhere then maybe we'll be seeing less of those
Here's another one that came up end of last year:
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/a...-36000cdn.html
Edmunds still puts a $35K private party sale value on my '04 C4S Cab. FWIW, I'd start considering offers at $40K...and I might even throw in that used IMSB currently on eBay if I can get a good deal on it. Has the bidding hit $25 yet?
-Eric
Because of this:
At the end of the day, if you are happy with the price you paid for what you got, then you got it at the right price.
The C4S has always run high for the 996s, but this just seems exceptionally high to me based on what we typically see. Same with those examples from Vandersmith (neither of which is entirely unmolested!).
If it comes with a large bird of prey I might be interested
Alright, someone is thinking just because someone was able to get close to $37k for their C4S off BAT, they could unload their 55k mile TT for probably $60-70k.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/200...che-911-turbo/
Let's see where this ends up. Clearly most of us were off the mark on the first one.
Mismatched tires, changed marker lenses, and a tune. I think the TT forum would call it a ragged out piece of track garbage.
I like the color combo and I will be out in SFO in a few weeks...
Seriously though, WTF is it with the mismatched tires? Bad juju there...
OK this one is kinda cool:
http://bringatrailer.com/2016/03/02/...hy-in-roswell/
But is that a stripper pole in the back?
Not that there's anything wrong with that
Yeah I agree. The tune, mismatched tires, unique interior color may not be for everyone. On the plus side, the coolant pipes have been pinned so one less thing to worry about.
One BIG red flag though is the owner didn't point the Porsche center cap correctly on the rims.
This will drastically reduce the pool of proper enthusiast buyers. LOL.
Maybe I just don't know enough about the actual process, but from what little I've read you have to have the engine out to do either the pin or weld approach and the pin approach doesn't stop the failure, just makes it less catastrophic.
So if pinning indeed requires the motor to come out, why not bite the bullet and get them welded to be done with it?
Yeah that will definitely turn off KC's buddies
Don't turn this into a in depth analysis, debate, war over the pinning issue here on a 996 NA forum.
We need to keep the IXX, scoring issues more relevant in this section.
I think we need more spice around here. There's been way to many technical threads lately where people are actually helping each other out. Need to fix that quick
Update: The Turbo closed yesterday at $45k. Kinda ironic that it only fetched 8k more than the C4S. The price difference is even less than a price for aftermarket turbo kit.
Guys for what it's worth the shop that did the LN install on the car in the original post is a RL sponsor as well as being the shop that has maintained all 3 of my porsches for around 15 years. They do great work and are perfectionists.
Don't know if that is the way that bearing is supposed to look or even if they really installed it... But it's a great shop that only works on Porsche and BMW.... And the owner is himself a track junkie and a lurker here.
Ok...so on the inspection and work sheets I see at least two references concerning water pump leaking and don't see any documentation that water pump was changed even though the drive belt was...? Maybe I missed it on the sheets as they are hard to read.
thats why it's on auction - unless it is a pristine collector car with history, buying at an auction has to be one of the laziest/stupidest things a buyer can do.
unless a car is vintage OR rare collector with history, any buyer is asking for trouble buying a later model car at auction - sellers send cars to auctions to:
1. distance themselves from sale because of mechanical problems/accident history
2. hopefully push car thru w/o PPI inspection
3. dump a lemon
anyone in the car business is aware of this - 99% of auctions are predatory events run by windbags who are too stupid to make a living anywhere else.
For traditional car auctions I agree with you. BAT is a selling tool for individuals just like eBay or CL.
That's not to say that there aren't scams and disasters via these, but it's not as bad as what you are thinking.
For what these cars are bringing on BaT lately, if I were selling mine, I'd sure as heck list it on there. They are bringing bids above market IMHO. Glad to see it. I think buying from an individual is definitely the way to go in buying a pre-owned Porsche. This appears to be a way for an individual seller to get his car in front of a group of enthusiasts that value buying from another enthusiast.
BAT is one of the few places where experts can get together and pick apart a car that is for sale. If something seems suspicious, there's a good chance that it will def be pointed out by someone.
You mean like we do in the CL thread? The thoughts and opinions given have proven helpful to people there. Might not be the best for the seller, but the buyer is the party interested in protecting themselves.
my point is that purchasing a car from internet auction using photos/discussion on internet and not physically inspecting car in person or with qualified PPI shop is just plain stupid - theres just no argument.
CL, autotrader, cars.com are great venues to LOCATE a car but before sending a check, due diligence should be #1 especially those folks who have scraped together the funds to purchase and are on limited budget.
I don't argue that, but it is a good way to find out about things you might miss in your excitement to buy or that you should have looked closer.
There was a sub-$20k 40th AE car, for example, that would have looked OK to someone inexperienced, but we picked it apart based on what we were seeing from a dispassionate view.
No argument there and I see BAT as no different. Either you know enough and are comfortable to take the risk for the given price, or you're not.
It's my 996 targa for sale on BAT. Yes, the coolant reservoir/tank were done at S-Car-Go. There's no substitute for a PPI of course, but I can hardly think of a better place to buy than BAT. Any listing is subject to the collective wisdom of thousands of enthusiasts who will pick it apart in a public forum. It never ceases to amaze me when I see an ultra rare classic listed and a dozen former owners chime in with "watch out for this and that".
Anyone interested in my car that would like to see it, drop by anytime. You won't be disappointed.
This maybe true on common cars, but older, rare, specialty cars, this is the norm. I would say for the most part BAT has the latter. People know some of these just don't popup so they are willng to buy it and fix whatever needs fixing.
It happens all the time on RM, Barrett Jackson, Sotheby's, etc. where you have phone bidders from around the world buying stuff and some just looking at pics online.
thx! excited to have a C4S in my garage for a while - my eventual goal is now to buy either a 997S or 997C4S
initially wanted a 996 turbo but since they are now low $40's, thinking a sweet 997 S with lobster forks is my next car. i like the design better. the 997C4S is a beauty
if you were following my boat chasing escapade, turns out the owner of the 30' Luhrs diesel BS'd me on the cruising speed - this is a boat i have been waiting almost a year to check out as owner lives in alaska 6 mos.. went up with wife to inspect and sea trial last week - boat has 130HP volvo diesel not 240HP as described - boat did max 9-10knots at near max cruising RPM which has windows/canvas rails vibrating like crazy. 240HP would have given nice quiet 16-18knot cruise. so forgetting bigger boat until my daughter graduates college
5% "buyer's fee" up to $5,000! Plus $250 flat fee from the seller. Geez, on a $30k car I'd rather purchase privately and use that $1,500 "buyer's fee" on a quality PPI and have $1,000 left over for other things. So this internet website generates $1,750 on the sale of a $30,000 car....nice work if you can get it.
Who says you can't have a car on BAT inspected? I looked at a local car for my dad, and I'm sure that many of the sellers would agree to having a PPI (or renncheck) done.
Looks like it ended at $28k for Targa. That's pretty strong IMO, especially for one that has mk1 turbo twists on it.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/200...che-911-targa/
People are dumping all sorts of old crappy "Porsches" on BAT now that peeps started selling 996's on there for top dollar.
Look at this Cabriolet for example...
http://bringatrailer.com/2016/04/09/...82-kubelwagen/
Name is VERY loosely used.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
