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YOUR RESEARCHHonda K24 Swapped 996 Coming At Ya
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boost controller itself and how sensitive it is
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The biggest issue was the boost controller itself and how sensitive it is.
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For me, the bigger issue was coming in here with a disrespectful tone about the M96, as opposed to just saying they wanted to try something different.
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I drive 2 Ls swapped 996 cars simply because the engines failed and cost of repairs allowed me to purchase the cars and look for a more economic way to drive them.
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Heres a video of the stock motor on the dyno plus my buddy Nick who has already swapped his 997.
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I know K swapped 997 already exists, so that makes it easier.
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I drive 2 Ls swapped 996 cars simply because the engines failed and cost of repairs allowed me to purchase the cars and look for a more economic way to drive them.
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But, I am still getting over the Patagonia and polishing insult.
Hey guys. I understand this is not going to be popular with the purists here but I am a few days away from pulling my perfectly good m96 and starting my 700+hp K24 build. Heres a video of the stock motor on the dyno plus my buddy Nick who has already swapped his 997. Enjoy! Also feel free to follow me on youtube if your interested in the build. **Side note the M96 motor is currently for sale $8,200 92k miles and runs great I know one of you here needs it**
You Tube
Well you see in case your not familiar with the m96. The motor in it makes 259hp to the wheels. Is notoriously unreliable and astronomically expensive to get any kind of power out of. Now, I can sell said motor for around $8,500. And with a $10k total investment into the k24 I now have a turbo 900hp capable built motor with all the goodies. So a total investment of $20k (after I sell the m96) I�ll have a 700hp 996
Why not? Why do people put lifts and off road tires on a Jeep that wont ever see even a dirt path. I think its neat to see what other people come up with for their projects. Who cares what someone else does with their cars. Not like 997s are low production unicorns, there are over 200,000 of them who cares if one has a Honda engine in it?
The reason why I asked "why" twice is to get an understanding on why you would want to put the internals of a Timex in a Patek? While the Timex internals may be more durable than the Patek, you in essence make the Patek worthless. No one will pay top dollar for a Patek with Timex internals, even if it's more durable.
Same can be said for what you are doing with the 996.
Sure, you get 800 HP for what? You can't use it on the street nor the track. It ends up being an exciting lesson on wasting money and destroying a perfectly good 996.
So I ask the question again...
Why do it?
I like the K series motors A LOT. I think for swap material, they are prime and there are a bunch of chassis I would look to them to power... I have been playing with the idea of building an E30 or E36 for sliding and using a K series... The chassis are stupid expensive right now though.
For the 996, I like the V layout better and so would go with the "other" hot in the streets swap.
Look forward to watching your progress though.
Bayside,
You seem like a good guy. I am just trying to help you save some college money for your daughter in the video. If you got the car for nothing and you are looking at it as a fun project where the sale of the 996 engine pretty much pays for the Honda build without any care for being able to sell it, then I look forward to your progress as well.
But if I were you, I would think long and hard about the "why". Because the car will be very difficult to realize any value for it after the rebuild. But it will be fast and durable. Just like a Patek with Timex internals.
Whatever you do, I will be cheering for you.
By the way...
Take a look at the Prices Keep Drifting Up thread on Rennlist. You will see that 996 Gen 1 prices are going thru the roof with your 3.4 engine. Your mechanical skills may allow you to turn a handsome profit by restoring the car. Past performance is not indicate of future returns, but just like the 964, 993 and countless other Porsche's throughout history, we seem to be in a renaissance for the 996 in demand and price.
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People always treat FWD cars as the redheaded stepchild of cars.
I love the K Series engines. Such an amazing engine NA or FI.
Curious if you ever considered the J Series for the swap. Im considering it. I know K swapped 997 already exists, so that makes it easier.
Lol This made me laugh.
Go enjoy your pure 996 and let him enjoy his the way he wants.
J series would be cool, in my case - not adding any boost so would not net the power I would be looking for.
And Yeah...sorry to offend. I have had a bunch of FWD cars...a MK2 Golf with a VR6 and Focus ST among others... just never was able to scratch the itch.
ETA... The K Series is reliable 500+ WHP capable with stock bottom end internals, many push them considerably higher before getting into any real engine modifications. I have always favored the 250WHP NA build with 10K RPM's... In any event, its hard to argue with the potential of the power plant in either NA or forced induction. Plus... if it blows up, you have replacement engine availability at low cost and high availability.
With how good the chassis are, and the known ability to handle high HP (in turbo application) the 996 is a great platform in my opinion to stuff big HP motors into.
Look I'm a Honda fan, as well. My other toy is a 2019 Honda Civic Type R which I play at AutoX with as well as haul the groceries. I would not want a Honda engine in my 996 because...well it's a Porsche.
To each their own. Enjoy your choice and best of luck.
I do think it�s pretty cool. I�d love to get a project like that going with the correct roller but not so much a nice driving car. Looking forward to updates and other builds like this.
I expected this from this thread. I want a fun car. I bought this thing a couple months ago for $18k. It�s slow, no options, fiberglass bumpers, weird interior, faded paint on roof and 132k miles on the body. Im not swapping a mint 993 guys. It�s arguably the least desirable of all the 911s. All you purists can stand around with your Patagonia vests and talk about paint correction and I�ll just keep doing rad things on my end. Including smoking 150k Porsches.
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As a purist I say �it�s your car, do whatever you want�.
I remember it was entertaining watching that ******** Hoovie ls swap his 996.
So I just subscribed to your YouTube channel.
According to dollar figures, which 911 would be less desirable? Sometimes the truth hurts. It�s one step up from the boxster which maybe was the 924 of its era.
It's not about whether it is truth or not, it's the approach. You can't come into a 996 forum trying to drum up interest in your project and then proceed to disrespect the car and its owners. As far as being one step up from the Boxster, I'm not sure what you mean by that. As a former 997.2 owner, my 996.1 is very similar in feel to it. By what I've read, the 996 outperforms all previous 911's so unless you are talking purely price, what you said is strange.
I love Hondas and owned one and an Acura in the past. Great cars. Putting a Honda engine in a perfectly working 996 is just ridiculous, IMO.
I know !
Preposterous, preposterous I tell you. How dare someone modify a vehicle to make it their idea of more fun... Pure unadulterated savagery. And a Porsche no less, have they no decency.
You guys need to get over yourselves...
Find a lighter car then the 996 add the k motor to that and make it a sleeper try a Volvo pull next a Ferrari and really see their faces sink into Thier Patagonia vests
ps I don’t own a vest or do paint correction on anything I own period
Mike
Ok, I am onboard.
But you have to turn the 996 into front wheel drive, and you need to put blue lights around the bottom of the car.
Now if you will excuse me, I am going to watch the entire Fast n Furious collection with my 13 year old nephew. We are looking for design ideas. 😁
I say go for it. I�d be interested to see what develops with this. I�d like know how it drives compared to what�s in there now. Is it all top end or is it streetable?
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I like the 924 and 944, hell, put one in one of those or a 914. I don�t see myself doing anything like this, but I enjoy watching people with skills and creativity do what they do. One of my customers gave me a ride in his Tesla Plaid a couple of weeks back, and while lacking the soul we crave in these cars, it�s where we�re headed like it or not. Can�t deny the performance of that car.
I own 3 996s snd I believe they are one step up from boxsters. I also think the air cooled cars are glorified beetles.
I wouldn�t own a 996 with an m96 engine in it, the coolant tubes are enough in my 996 turbo and 997 turbo.
Funny thing is around here a used 996 engine worth as much as a core, and most won�t touch them?
There�s a thread on the 997 forum where a guy asks if the manual and automatic engines interchange, because he wants to put a used engine in his used car. Everyone essentially poo pooed his logic about a used engine, and essentially told him he was silly for not rebuilding at the tune of $25,000 or more. Seems like a good investment all the way around!
I have done engine swaps in 30 or more cars in my life, most of them in cars that had good intentions like rx7s. , but bad engineering usually in the engine depertmant. When I did the first LS 1 swap in an FD Rx7 back in 2001 or so ,the rx7 crowd was mortified, and I had ruined the sacred car.
Had all of these cars been running they would be worth quite a bit more, and I wouldn�t have purchased them for doing what I was doing. Same with the 2 996 swapped cars I have, both junk engines.
I do ha d a hard time with dismantling a running car, but maybe he is the smart one starting with a runner and selling the engine before it does bad things.
I will guarantee that he has a hard time selling that engine on here unless it has the ims solution and complete bore scoping , and there isn�t a scratch on any cylinder wall!
Awesome, don't let these nay sayers cause doubt. I watched most of Nick's 997 K swap videos. The only thing I didn't like was the custom valve cover required and the lack of space up top, but oh well, that's engine swapping for you. I'd like to do a K24 turbo 987.1 Cayman. 987.1s come up relatively cheap every now and then with a blown engine.
It's funny watching so many people get upset over this when they own a car that until the recent boom many 'purists' didn't speak too highly of. You own a car that there are almost 200k examples of, call me when we start tearing apart GT or RS cars to do engine swaps. There are like 40 posts per page, its not hard to skip a thread you have no interest in rather than making in toxic. Its nice to have something different once in a while and while I wouldn't personally do it I can give credit to people that are willing to do so.
Well to each his own, but I have driven a stock 996 and I can assume you haven�t driven a v8 powered 996, so there�s that.
I do believe the higher revving Honda engine will be better for the 996 gearing, transmission and final ratio. The V8 isn�t optimal for average highway speeds of 80 or so. I would guess that the transmission will be fine unless it�s shifted with force.
About 15 years ago I built a Factory Five Roadster. Put an LS in it, under carriage exhaust that exited the back, no roll bars and a front hinged/tilt body (no hood). I didn�t want to do what everyone else was doing. Good for you, it�s your car, it�s your money. Do whatever makes you happy!
Hah! The Timex certainly doesn't! At the end of the day, Bayside should do what he wants, just like we all should.
The great thing about RL is that you will get opinions. No need to get upset over them because you know they are coming. You also know you are going to get humor and even folks that are downright offended.
Bayside, take all of it in stride. My comments were not made to be offensive. I apologize if they came off that way. Just trying to help you ultimately keep some money in your pocket.
As I said previously, I am cheering you on with whatever you decide.
But, I am still getting over the Patagonia and polishing insult. 😁
Acura TSX had that block and the ultimate NA set up was with the 2.4L block and a K20A(JDM Integra Type R) head. No idea now and I�m sure other cars came with the 2.4 block.
Very presumptuous of you.
First of all, I came up in the import scene. I love old Toyotas, Hondas, you name it. I even fully built up an Isuzu Impulse RS Turbo. Getting over myself has nothing to do with this. Just because I don't like what he's doing doesn't make me a snob. I'd say the same thing about putting a Honda engine in a Corolla GT-S.
Well, just say that all 911's are a step up from whatever their Boxster contemporary is, because that is also true. It's not just true for the 986, because there is no Porsche model in between any given Boxster/Cayman and their associated 911. If you want to only apply this to the 996, that's incorrect.
Presumptuous eh...
You did say
Right...
I didn't say you were a snob, you did.
The intolerance to people wanting to take these cars into directions untraveled is tired. Some people may find joy in making the chassis do things it was never meant to do and the motor, in expense and performance is a major impediment to their goals.
So, people who are going to complain, instead of being intrigued by the technical challenges of what people like the OP are doing would do well to just step out of the way quietly. This forum is full of stuff that is of virtually no technical significance and boring. Threads like this are why people like me have been coming to forums like this for a long time. If you're as into the scene of modding cars as you espouse to be, the technical side of your brain should love what the OP is doing. Calling it ridiculous tells me all I need to know.
You implied snobbery.
Note that I said "perfectly working 996".
I
do not
think that taking one with a for example... a blown engine and doing the engine swap is ridiculous.
I do think that taking apart a perfectly working 996 to do this swap is ridiculous.
I have a right to my opinion. It's not like I said I hope the guy fails or anything. That said, I would not have commented on the swap either way, had OP not started down the 996 is an undesirable car line of rhetoric.
Think what you want about me, but you're wrong if you think I don't appreciate swaps or heavy modification.
If you�re gonna go rice why not get an EJ33 and put a supercharger on it?!
seriously JK I wish I had 5% of your ingenuity! Looking forward to the results (although pulling off a SVX swap would be cool)!
Taking out a working engine out means it has some value... value that can be used to defer some cost of achieving your goals... Doesn't seem ridiculous to me.
And... that engine can go and keep another 996 running (slowly
)... while the OP is laying 11's at 80MPH waving goodbye to unsuspecting Lambos. Beautiful.
Long Live the Tinkerer.
I know there�s differing thoughts on this but after riding in a K20 swapped MR2, it really changed my thoughts about some swaps. There are some cool cars with interesting swaps over the years.
I don't even get why you and I are arguing. I'm not anti-tinkering. I've participated in many crazy engine swaps and rebuilds over the years. I wish the OP well in his swap, though he could have done it without the insults to 996 owners.
I said I thought people were being too harsh with him, but it seems you glossed over that part.
Did you really think 911 Porsche website is the ideal location for your Frankenstein if you didn’t want to be ridiculed it should have been posted on the Honda tuner’s site
I’m sure they will love you there
Question as I look at that 997 swap above and maybe the OP can shed some light.
I have thought for a while that it would be cool to run a boxster motor turbo'd with the goal of making like 350WHP and have an engine that is far more consumable than the M96 in our cars. Just throw a new used one in when it blows up, always keep a spare on hand kind of deal.
A major hurdle for me really wanting to take that any further is the cold side plumbing. What are you planning on running for an IC and how are you planning on mounting and plumbing it ?
I have a lot of other hurdles that would be associated with this idea as my car is mainly track used and heat management would be a lot to overcome but interested in your IC solution none the less.
yeah that�s Nick! He�s in my video I posted. He�s the reason why I decided to go this route. Super smart guy and has a fantastic setup. I�m trying to be like Nick. But on steroids and breaking way more things 🤣
The best part is Nick has kept everything so it's easily reversed without a Trace for those purists... I'm actually going to probably swap my 996 this way now be a fun little project.... And if I get sick of it but the flat six back in.
The best part is Nick has kept everything so it's easily reversed without a Trace for those purists... I'm actually going to probably swap my 996 this way now be a fun little project.... And if I get sick of it but the flat six back in.
Bayside, all joking aside. I'll subscribe to your channel and watch the build as I cheer you on. Believe it or not, while I am a purist, I am cheering you on. If you can provide an innovative solution, I am game.
So tell us if this is a one-off build or something that you and Nick are turning into a business like the LS focused swappers.
I mean yeah. It�s a 911 after all. God forbid I swap out a low powered, notoriously unreliable motor. With that being said. The factory m96 runs great! Someone buy it. I�ll give you a test ride before I pull it!
I am 100% planning to offer a swap kit. I already do a s54 e30 swap kit and it�s great. It seems like Nick has a great valve cover solution. I just need to do it myself and see where everything lines up and see for myself. I think with with our combined skill sets we can both offer a solid swap setup.
Impulse RS ? When I had one in 09 there wasn't much off the shelf parts availability to do any kind of build other than the Robbie coilovers, t-bird compressor and a custom short throw. Sure was fun though.
Also you'll be upset that the F20 swap is very common in AE86 Corolla GT-Ss.
End of the day it's your money and your car so you can do with it as you please. All the questions of why is a bit odd. Unconventional for sure, but no reason not to support the endeavor. I also have a soft spot for K20's from days passed.
I'm more a Patagonia jacket kind of guy myself.
I'm all aboard for this swap, excited to see the updates. Before I ended up with my Turbo I was searching for a Carrera with a popped engine to transplant an Audi 2.7T into, or maybe a turbo'd VR6.
Funny you mention that. There�s a built VR6 longblock for sale on eBay that can �handle� 800hp. Wonder what the weight differences are. Wonder what the viability is on the Golf R motor or the RS3 5 cylinder monster in a 996/997.
The 12 valve 2.8L VR6 bottom end can supposedly handle 600hp in stock form. I have never pushed one that far. I'm helping one of my buddies put a turbo 12V VR6 into a 1972 Datsun 240Z. I always wanted a turbo VR6 swapped Nissan 240sx.
You do you and enjoy whatever makes your heart bleed gas and oil.. I would start a separate build thread just to track all the progress and to keep us in the loop.. I wish I did this sooner
.. It will be interesting to see how CAN system will be adapted for the K swap as i hear it's a pain ... and for the record I wear Dead bird not Patagonia most of the time LOL.. good luck and build away
there is a guy on the Canada section that was doing similar with a 996. I think it is a great upgrade on a poorly designed engine
.
guys have done 2.0 turbos in 944s and 996s
They r 2 of the easiest things to adapt. I dont know why its a problem for most. For the ps just have a machine shop make custom adaptors or a hydro shop build hoses. There is also the electric cup pump.
Same for the ac. Custom adaptors or hoses. The cotrols for the hvac center work without the dme or get vw manual controls.
All it takes is money and effort.
Btw, ill be following along for the ride.
The 997 K24 turbo is a local Ontario car. I think it's awesome but I heard there are some challenges like oil changes due to the positioning of the motor. I'm surprised so many people in this thread are having mild heart attacks over this. Everyone knows the M96 has major flaws. People might actually pass out when they see the K24 Ferrari 308.
Everything exists nowadays�
I think I�m more okay with a k-swap than an LS� both aren�t something I�d ever do. It�ll be fast tho� I guess 🤷♂️
have a friend with a k-swapped MR2, no one beats that guy� it�s amazing
Hey Bayside. Good to see you on here. I ran one of your roll bars in my old E46 M3. I'm curious what you're planning on doing about oil baffling. It seem like those engines don't like running in a front to back configuration from what I've seen when they're ran and tracked in a S2000. Oil ends up going to the wrong places under heavy braking. I have a good friend with a midnight purple K swapped time attack NSX. He's proof that those K swaps are potent. I look forward to following this build.
Welcome Bayside! Sorry about some of the naysayers you've encountered so far, they're definitely a minority though. I'm totally into what you're going to do and have been considering it for some time myself. What's holding me back isn't going non-original (I'd make it fully reversible) but it's the lack of torque at low RPM. I suspect that would be a bit of a drag, but I'd be very happy to be corrected. Good luck with this and please post regularly and tell us all how you solve each problem.
So what do call your completed car since it’s no longer a Porsche
I got it call it a Horsche
or a Korsche 24
LOL silly boys who throw money at their toys
Does a, some would say, very questionable styling decision of an aftermarket front bumper also disqualify a car from being called a Porsche ?
Just wondering the rules...
I like and appreciate what Jake and others do for us but also like to see what people are doing for swaps too. Mines a Tiptronic cab so not a great candidate. Doesn't mean I'm opposed to other ways of doing things.
Yeah only if it was from a Supra….but I think a gt3 “STYLE “ but taking the heart of a car doesn’t qualify as a Frankenstein at least my car is based on a Porsche look I didn’t take a perfectly running car and rip it up?
nice try though plus it was bought that way now it’s being converted back
I don't get all the fuss. People throw money and time at their cars in all different ways. Their time, their money, and I would bet that for most projects, 99% of the people responding don't know what is "appropriate" for the person with the project.
I wouldn't do a project like this for a number of reasons, primarily the things I lack like talent, time and space.
Because of the those factors, I also only have one Porsche that I drive year round and I don't consider it a project. If I had the time, space, and talent to have a project like this I would love to do it.
Many of us want to personalize our cars, and everybody has a different tolerance for how far from stock that should go, and what can be modified and what can't. In that context and in the spirit of full disclosure I did NOT use OEM hood struts in my long list of mods, and my parking brake button? I found one in my toolbox.
Have at it, Bayside.
Folks,
This is a tricky thread. It's not what it originally looked like.
I thought it was a guy with his little daughter (passenger seat in video) who announced he had a 996 and was going to swap a "perfectly good engine" out of it and swap in a Honda engine because he could get 700+HP out of it in versus 250+HP at the wheel.
As a 19 year 996 owner who has read, watched and studied just about everything on the 996 including price history, I was concerned that this young guy was about to make a "boy car" mistake in creating a very fast car with no re-sale value. No argument from me that the K engine would make the 996 chassis faster with potentially more durability. But there was a cost.
Obviously I wanted to help him think this thru and weigh his decision. All I could see was a lot of work and a 996 that would not have a resale value. How many times do we try to help the newbie with some common sense decisions on their 996 to save them some time, money and headaches. This was no different.
Then it became clear that this was not a newbie, but in fact a business enterprise, of which Bayside was advertising that he was going to create a swap kit and then sell it. This changes the argument quite a bit. It's not about helping a naive newbie not to make a financial mistake, it's about a business launching an engine option for those that want the engine option. The buyer of this swap can make the decision on "if" and "why" they want to do it. No different than an LS or Tesla swap.
As such, we know the following:
1. You can swap many different non-M96 engines into a 996 to address a plethora of objectives such as: more performance, more durability, less cost, etc.
2. We have already seen many different swaps that have succeeded and failed for a number of reasons. DeJeepers GT3 swap was a success. Hoovies LS swap was a failure due to not preparing the engine for oil starvation. Tesla swaps are going on as we speak. And now a Honda swap. If it fits, it will eventually be swapped.
3. Any swap with have an effect on the resale value of the 996. It can be good, and it can be bad. Time will tell.
IMHO, we should move this conversation to whether this engine and swap will actually work on the street and track, judge it's viability and determine what needs to be done to make it a success.
Yeah, I am a purist who doesn't believe that anything but a Porsche engine should be in a Porsche. No different than a Ford engine should never be in a Chevy. But I do appreciate innovation and those that are not purists. We can all learn from it.
Bayside should have been straightforward that he was launching product. This could have started as a technical discussion on the merits of the engine and swap. Not on if a newbie was thinking straight.
Just my 2 cents as the dust clears.
If it were me doing this swap I�d never bring it up. I�d leave the hatch closed and keep people guessing.
Do what you want, not something I�d do but it�s not my car
I would however keep that motor, rebuild it (have YouTube pay for it) and some day return it back in the car� if your going to do this swap you can handle rebuilding a flat 6
Do you consider a 3rd party rebuild that requires different maintenance procedures and schedules than the original engine a Porsche engine? Your logic seems flawed to me.
The only concern I might have is that the power delivery of a small 4 cylinder engine making 800 hp is likely to be a bit peaky. This would suggest that a very close ratio gearbox would be the ideal. That's not what we get in the 996 because Porsche wanted to emphasize top speed at the expense of acceleration. The stock gearing favors something with a wide flat torque curve which may not be what the turbo 4 can supply.
If you mean an FSI, LN, Hartech or Indy rebuild that uses the Porsche engine...
Then it's a rebuilt Porsche engine.
Remember, folks come to this forum for opinions, advice, etc. When someone starts a post or asks a question, all we can do is answer them. Sometimes we don't like the answers, sometimes we do. But at the end of the day, what matters most is what the owner wants to do. Not what you or I want them to do.
Bravo|^^^^ so can we please move this conversation to the Honda website or at least the fast&frivolous 11 make a movie or you tube channel
but please let’s talk Porsche on a Porsche website
Ok back to our regular scheduled program “Horrosche show”staring Zee9oneone so turn your caps backwards and squeeze those butt cheeks for the ride of your life
Honda power baaabbby
The M96 is nothing special. It made good power in its day, but it can be fragile and finicky, and is prohibitively expensive and complicated to rebuild if it takes a crap on you.
The 996 is a great chassis, and is still very much a Porsche whether there is an M96 in the rear or not.
If you are so concerned about the engine swap, I'm sure Bayside would be happy to share his Venmo and you can send him money to build his car the way you'd like it done. Although I don't think he is a fan of making his car look like eBay threw up all over it.
This was my first impression of this swap also when I seen the end objectives.
An 800hp Turbo 2.4L will have a considerable "lag time", just the way it works. I did a lot of Turbo 4cyl developement in the early 1980's to some big power ( 4-5 times factory output ))..The driving dynamics of a high HP turbo 4 to a N/A 3.8 will be very noticeable. If you were to knock off a few hundred horses from the 800hp, ( to say 500-600hp) you could improve the response time considerably, but still be quite different and noticeable.
In the end it will depend on how well the swap drives, if everything works like Factory ( A/C, all gauges, Electrics ect), the ease of maintenance/repairs, and above all the total cost...
IF I were 30 years younger, I could see myself doing this, but will take a lot to make it "Factory like". It will not be for most people, but will be good for a few people who will not mind the trade-offs.
I applaud your willingness to devote the time and effort into the project, go forth and INNOVATE !!
True, but adds another "Alligator mouth to feed"...I hate going to the gas station and paying $4 a gallon for fuel, much less swapping NO2 tanks and buying NO2 $$$......
I'm getting Old and Lazy...lol
So let me ask a question for those of you that track your 996. What is the right amount of power assuming:
1. You have full 996 Cup Car aero, or
2. You have GT3 RS aero, or
3. You have stock 996 aero
Not a loaded question. I don't have the answer. But I do know that it's not a peaky 700 HP.
A transplant 996 turbo engine is what you need. Or a 996 turbo without AWD. There was a time you could by 996 turbos for 45k and 996 GT2s for 85k. Those days are gone.
No turbo for me - one of the things I give the OP props on. The intercooler situation in a NB car is not something that I am comfortable resolving on a track car. On a road car a water to air with the exchanger mounted in the center rad spot may work but not something I would trust for 20 min sessions.
It’s what I am most interested in with this build. If a good reliable IC solution can be made for non turbo cars, that would open up a number of swaps of LW engines that can make variable big power depending on supporting mods.
No intercooler required unless you add turbo(s) which could make for a pretty gnar 1K+ WHP scenario with an iron block 5.3.
450-500 naturally aspirated HP is easy with an LS3.
Regardless, cooling will be the lynchpin to success once oil system is made track ready with off the shelf dry sump solutions.
Question to the OP:
Are you going to use the head with the built in exhaust manifold ? Pretty neat from a packaging perspective.
No room for an Air to air IC on a non turbo, period. The turbo cars use ducts in the high pressure area of the rear fenders to feed the IC and an exhaust in the rear bumpers. While C4S have the same rear bumper with the ducting in the bumper, there are no cut outs in the fenders to feed IC’s.
So, to add an IC, be it air to air or air to water you need a place to mount the heat exchangers that will get a good flow of high pressure air AND a way to exhaust that air once it has done its job.
You need to route the turbo compressor outlet to that hardware and then route it to the throttle body.
Anything can be done with enough imagination and resources, it’s a problem regardless of engine choice if a turbo is used and one that I’m interested in what the OPs solution is.
Ya I�m aware of how the TT cars are, I had one.. i modded an MR2 years ago and hung an I/C vertical out the bottom of the rear bumper cover.. granted that was a mid engine car� 911�s dont have as much room but I�m sure something like this could be accomplished
For those not familiar, here is how the intercoolers are set up on a Turbo. Air is fed in through the fender ducts, which go up and over the rear wheels to the intercoolers, which are mounted roughly where the mufflers are on a Carrera. Then the air exits in the vents in the rear bumper (which are open on the Turbo and covered up on the C4S). The exit vent is actually a low pressure zone and helps pull air through the intercoolers.
You could do the same on a narrow body car as the rear fenders are a big empty cavity, just add a vent. Ruf did this on their cars of this era with the Mezger engines.
Sure� but that�s generally gonna be fighting for space with the exhaust - not the best situation for a heat exchanger.
Where are the charge pipes going to go and how will they be insulated from heat ?
This is the type of stuff that keeps me far away from turboing one of these cars.
I really think the best solution is just to cut holes in the fenders and replicate the factory turbo setup as close as you can. Regardless of what motor is feeding the turbo(s).
it�s all a compromise on turbo cars� I�m all done with turbos myself.. The GT3 and Cayman S is all I need�
I don�t need a here�s how a TT works� I had one with 700hp� I�m trying to understand space with an LS swap�
K bro… good luck.
I don’t have a LS 996 turbo or otherwise so can’t help you other than the theoreticals. Check out the swap group on Facebook - what you’re looking for is there.
Back to the point of this thread... K24s in 996s.
What's the weight of a K24? I'd imagine even with a turbo it is still a good 40+ pounds lighter than an M96.
I'd also guess the low end power isn't too bad either since it has a fairly large displacement for a 4-cylinder. Perhaps even roughly on par with the original flat 6.
Another nice point on the Turbo's IC system is the turbo outlet feeds the IC with a really short hose - less frictional losses. Some turbo kits end up with long pipes running all over everywhere, VR6 Turbos I am looking at you!
There is no space for air to air intercoolers on a narrow body, at least keeping the body stock and trying to feed air through them. Water to air is the way I went, but it�s still lots of plumbing and parts plus mechanical pumps.
I would say yes, that 3.4 core block if it had bore scoring would probably sell for $3000 or more. No cheap way to put these engines back together once they fail.
I am going to weigh both setups before and after. I do know I shipped a complete k24 short block to get o ringed and reinforced. That weighed 123lbs. If I were to guess I would estimate it to be a wash after all the turbo stuff is added but we shall see.
Sounds like a fun project for someone with the skills. I always appreciate innovation of this caliber to see the end results. Be it good or bad, you'll have fun on the way. I look forward to your reports and would love to be a passenger for a few laps
Checked out a few of Nick's 997 K24 video. Smart guy. He did a nice job with getting the swap to work. I am certainly not an expert about Hondas or their exhaust systems, but is there anything that can be done with the sound of the exhaust. Yeah I know, you boosted the HP/TQ by over 100+, but it still sounds like a souped up Honda Civic.
They both sound like souped up Honda�s to me. The sound of a flat 6 isn�t much better than the sound of a Honda IMO. I prefer the sound of an inline six over the flat 6 sound. There could be worse , like the sound of an older viper v10, which was bad.
Just a update. M96 was sold for $7,500. M96 weighed 496lbs fully dressed. Honda K series fully dressed with turbo and intercooler etc is 416lbs. Almost ready to fire! just got to make a few coolant lines and some other odd and ends.
I love it.
I'm surprised you didn't go with a 930-style intercooler setup like on the aircooled turbo cars, or stuff them in the fender wells like the modern Turbo cars. Looks good though. Excited to see the numbers this puts down.
I thought about doing something similar on my car, but the Turbo rear bumper has pretty defined exhaust cut outs and I didn't want the added expense of customizing and repainting the bumper to make it look good. Lots of room to do it though if you trim the rebar.
Congrats on a very cool project. How does the the K24-converted 997 feel in normal driving? I haven't found most of the 16-valve Japanese 4-cylinders to be very fun to drive just because of the lack of torque in normal driving (e.g. BRZ, S-2000, MR2 (naturally aspirated)). They put out a lot of power for the displacement, but you really have to take them to redline on every shift to feel any significant performance. I imagine the turbo helps low end power quite a bit, but I'm curious how the K24 997 stacks up against the stock Porsche engine in day-to-day driving.
.
thats cool. I was thinking of doing a similar thing. I have to trim up my bumper a bunch anyways to clear up intercooler flow. I was also thinking a mesh just like you have it but in between the trunk exit exhausts. So picture your mesh deal but you in the trunk so it vents heat out plus looks cool. 😎
Have you driven the converted 997 or are you just basing it all off of dyno runs? If you�ve driven it, how does it compare to the Porsche motor in daily driving?
my buddy owns a 400hp k series 997 and he says it feels much better. It�s a lot lighter and all that weight is taken off behind the axle so it makes a considerable difference. I personally haven�t driven one yet but am excited too. The m96 isn�t anything to write home about in my opinion. It�s heavy, unreliable and slow. Good power band tho. Definitely was a smooth motor.
I watched the 997 dyno videos, I'm just surprised you didn't drive the 997 to see what it feels like on the road. There is a world of difference between peak HP and usable torque for non-race cars. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for your project and looking forward to seeing how it turns out, but I don't think the original 996 engine should or can be written off as "slow". In its lightest form (C2/coupe/6-speed) it was a mid 4 second 0-60, which was very fast for a normally aspirated car in period and still respectable today. I know a heavily turbo'ed Honda engine can have more peak HP, but in day-to-day driving I would think the original engine would be a lot better and torquier than the Honda -- and it would be interesting to see 0-60 numbers (rather than dyno) to see how much of that peak HP is usable.
The difference in usable torque vs peak hp could be seen in the early 911's where the top-of-the-line 911s was slower than the 911e from 0-60, 0-100, and quarter mile even though the 911e was a 185 hp Targa and the 911s was a 210 hp Coupe (
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/
). I drove a lot of early 911s in all three versions when I was young and 911 "s" models were fairly miserable to drive at anything less than 10/10ths -- the 911e's were much better cars to drive and felt a
LOT
faster because they had much more usable torque. The 911 "t" model (below the "e" and "s") was noticeably slower than the 911e's, but they still felt torqier than the 911s's. A lot of those 911 "s" models have been retuned today to be more driveable (trading some HP for torque) -- but the "s" wasn't that fun to drive as delivered from the factory.
The difference between usable torque and HP can also be seen in the 996 where, apparently according to Autocar, the 996 C2 s faster than the 996 GT3 to 60 and dead even at 10.9 secs to 100mph. I say "apparently" because I can't find the actual Autocar test, but it is summarized in the Hargerty article below. I'd much rather find the original Autocar test than take Hagerty's word for it, but had no luck in finding it after a brief search.
.
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/modern-classics/after-25-years-the-996-porsche-911-has-come-of-age/
The 3.4-litre engine is just fab-u-lous darling, mixing torque and revs to produce a more than adequate 300bhp. Many hot hatches have that sort of power these days, but they don’t have the soundtrack. It’s still fast, achieving 0-60mph in 4.5 seconds and going on to near-as-dammit 180mph. In fact, as Autocar discovered, a Carrera C2 will pip a 996 GT3 to 60mph and be right with it to 100mph, each getting there in 10.9sec. Sure, the GT3 Mezger engine has an extra 60bhp, but an additional 30kg and drag-generating aero kit works against it.
my transaxle will brake before the motor. I have a fully built block sitting in my garage. I�m using this stock internal motor to work out all the bugs first. Will be 450-500 on this one. Built motor is good to 900hp 😎
Pretty freaking cool but I have a question? Was that a real GT3 wing? You might want to put a heat shield around the top and bottom half of the exhaust exit area. Didn't realize you were going E85 which is sweet too.
[QUOTE=TheChunkNorris;18152184]Pretty freaking cool but I have a question? Was that a real GT3 wing? You might want to put a heat shield around the top and bottom half of the exhaust exit area. Didn't realize you were going E85 which is sweet too.[/QUOTE
Oh no. Its all fiberglass knock off stuff. And yes. I will have to add some kind of flange so I don't burn the paint.
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Well...
Seems that we have been discussing on RL that all engines eventually will fail. Hoovie with his M96 and then LS, Bayside with his K24. Even the best of engine designs can and will fail.
Bayside, keep pushing. While as a purist, i'm not a fan of swapping Honda engines into a Porsche, I do appreciate what you are attempting to do.
As far as I can tell they are saying it was seized solid, and yet all they found was a spun rod bearing? It doesn't add up. I was expecting to see something like a bent crank or hydrolock. Come to think of it I guess it could be a bent crank.
I only skimmed through the video, but I too was surprised by the seeming lack of internal damage from an engine that was supposedly seized. I know absolutely nothing about Honda engines, but I did see them looking at the crank moving front to back when the clutch was pressed and with a screwdriver, so maybe this excess motion, somehow caused some binding not allowing it to spin? This does seem a bit far fetched though. I have also seen starters fail in some weird ways that caused the starter gear to essentially turn into a flywheel lock. I wish the op could have found a more obvious sign of failure and hopefully comes back and updates us here on his progress/any new findings. Either way like others have said at least it was a junk yard K and hopefully the OP can get his car up and running again soon.
For me, the bigger issue was coming in here with a disrespectful tone about the M96, as opposed to just saying they wanted to try something different. Not taking any pleasure in their troubles, though.
From my perspective it looked more like the chip on his shoulder crashing into the chips on some of the RL regulars' shoulders.
While I understand the motive, I don't quite get the logic behind building the whole thing with a isht engine. Maybe the lesson here is to vet the junkyard motor a bit more before using it as your alpha tester?
Meh, I understand why some think the OPs tone was a little too much but he�s also not wrong. In the vid he said the tuner mentioned something about oil starvation. The swap components aren�t terribly expensive so that�s good.
The K-series is a great engine and I have them in a few race cars. Easy to modify, stay reliable and parts a plenty. Mine is well over 1000hp and 10,000rpm with the new EFR9280 turbo. Downside, they aren't the best sounding engine, no matter what you do. Didn;t go back and read all the comments, however I think the issue is the standard sump. K-series sumps don;t like being mounted any other way but how they were intended for. Daily dry sump for the win on all my race engines.
I didn't read everything or watch the video either, but the above sounds pretty promising as a possible cause of the problem.
I wish the OP the best with this project and hope he will continue to post. I'm not critical of it, even though I'm generally an originality person. If you're going to mod -- go big
. My only criticism, and it's really more a point of curiosity, is what the K24 will be like in ordinary driving versus the original engine. I've not liked the high-hp low-torque Japanese motors in general for regular driving -- very curious to see how the K24 pans out in that regard.
I also don't think it was fair or accurate to characterize of the original motor as "slow" (sub 5-second 0-60 in 2000 is pretty damn good) and the engine is brilliant in regular day-to-day driving. That said, if the k24 beats it on the drag strip and on matches daily driving, that will be quite an accomplishment.
.
I am a fan of crazy swaps. I really am.
Have done some myself.
5.4 v8 into a Fiero, 3.8SC v6 into a Fiero,
3.1v6 into a toyota pickup
TDI into a Jeep, etc...
I get the joy of making something work in something it never was meant to.
But I just can't see putting a 4 cyl engine into a 911... for no other reason than the sound.
Aren't there good v6 options that can produce plenty of power for reasonable costs? Its your swap and your money, but did you consider V6 options?
Yeah, my 3.6 is plenty fast for the street. I have yet to find a road that allows me to use my engine to its fullest. Sure can on the track, but not a road. Heck, a few weeks ago, I was trying to record the sound of my exhaust, and I couldn't find a road to do it on that would allow me to meaningfully get beyond 3rd gear for more than a split second.
Besides, an engine that behaves the same as an old 2 stroke dirt bike is sub-optimal on the road and track anyways.
Bayside would be better served to focus on bringing the HP down and increasing the torque lower in the powerband to show what the K24 can really do.
Looking forward to his next steps.
My next to last spirited drive was interrupted by a racoon running across in front of me.
Luckily I was still on my 6-mile warm up where I go through small towns on the way to some twisty roads.
I was able to avoid Randy Racoon easily at 55mph.
When I lived in West Texas, you just had to learn to dodge the tumbleweeds.
Boy do i miss the roads in PA. I am originally from the Phila area, but have been in chicago for 25 years. We don't have hills and our roads don't generally wind. They are pretty flat and straight. So every so often I drive the 996 to PA to visit family and friends as well as have fun driving the winding roads. Hope to do it in July and take a detour to 50. Never been on it, but looking forward to it.
That would explain a few things. Spun bearings are mainly due to lubrication failure, so whether that be due to excessive play due to worn bearings, or due to low oil pressure, or due to high heat, or the crankshaft end play, either way, doing a dry sump would eliminate at least one of those variables and it�s a big variable that affects many different types of performance engines.
A dry sump is a must for this swap. These engines were designed to be transverse. They do not get proper oiling mounted longitudinal. I've seen guys try to use a K series in their S2000s and they never last. I'm not surprised with what happened. I just thought it would have lasted a bit longer.
Update: the first $400 junkyard motor spun a bearing. When originally pulled apart it had a broken oil pump gear dowel so we assumed it was already hurt before it was even in the car. Which is obvious because we had great oil pressure and weren�t even driving hard at all. Fast forward I sold that blown up block for $250 and bought a $900 low mile jdm motor. Ran great. My tuner had a issue controlling the boost and it made 28lbs of boost by accident (aka was headed towards 700+hp) and 2 rods let go. Now we�re onto the third motor @$900 and I am getting a new tuner plus keeping it conservative at 400-450hp level and downsizing the turbo. Bummed about the second motor for sure but it definitely wasn�t a (junk Honda) issue by any means. These stock bottom ends can only hold so much torque. So far I�m $2k into motors. Still have a way to go to match my m96 sale price and have double the hp.
Lighter, cheaper (4 injectors, 4 pistons etc.) and insane amount of aftermarket support. You can buy forged pistons and rods for under $1k. Can also reach very similar power numbers.
So as not to mess up
@zbomb
's thread I'll answer you here. Hey look, I was paraphrasing. I think there are plenty of examples of your comments which could be considered as disrespectful. Even in this reply above, you said that they "barely hold up in stock form", which is not true. The majority of M96 engines hold up just fine well past the 100,000 mile mark. Regardless, as I said I will read the progress on your engine and hope you succeed. The only thing I'm upset about is that you managed to curb the enthusiasm I would have normally had for this project. I am pulling for this to be a success, though. I'm sure it's a fun car to drive.
I think you guys should be able to reach a point to hug it out.
@barbancourt
certainly has not demonstrated the fervor against having fun with his car like the person currently ****ting all over my thread and I think
@BaysideFab
could probably agree, M96 reliability is highly dependent on the history and ownership of the motor, inherent issues aside.
I would really like to see more of the community embrace an idea of inclusiveness that welcomes people doing what they need, and want to keep the cars on the road and running.
I’m getting off my soap box now, the cars are fun, modifying and pushing ideas of what’s possible is also fun… Forums where crazy ideas are welcomed… they are fun too.
So i have scanned through the many posts and would like to offer encouragement to this guy, look there are a ton of 996 and derivatives out there, and some of them have not been well maintained, what are those owners going to do, when the motor lets go and they cant afford an expensive rebuild, so a portion of those cars will go into the parts bin.. but if the car is loved and in good shape surely there is room for a swap in kit, that helps continue the ownership experience.
well done sir keep on going...
The 996/997 are great cars, the engines not so much. I drive 2 Ls swapped 996 cars simply because the engines failed and cost of repairs allowed me to purchase the cars and look for a more economic way to drive them.
This 4 cylinder swap is great for the 3.44 final drive ratio of the car, can�t say the same for the V8 cars I have.
If the original engines lasted, there would be no such posts about engine swaps, but for the cars I have purchased, they have not,
It would be nicer if the engine wasn�t so tall, a nice compact 4 cyl with robust internals would make it easier to work on.
The twin turbo ls car I built is not extremely fun to work on, but my wife�s normally aspirated ls is easy in comparison.
I always keep extra engines in stock, and at $400 a pop I would procure 3 or 4 of them, it�s cheap insurance and I usually don�t use them, just buy other blown up german cars to place them in.
Look I get it cheap bought power can be had by anyone with some automotive skill
but wihy is there not more of you guys running alternative engine???
for me if I didn’t have the money or skill it makes sense
if or when my motor lets go I will have to pay someone to either rebuild or replace it
alternative motors are not my preference so I will stay Porsche only
Im sorry your upset about my opinions on a motor. I don't know what to tell you. Its just guys talking about cars on the internet. If you're into the m96 thats cool. In my opinion they are trash.
In 2003 they weren�t trash! I do have a question in regard to cooling. I�d be interested to see what oil temps you�ll see once you get everything up in running.
I get what you’re saying on the M96, but you have to admit it a little funny you call it trash when you just toasted 2 K’s in a couple months.
Like, it’s not like you blew up multiple M96’s in a couple months.
Hard to argue objectively that the M96 is a good value for sure, but to me, your hardo attitude about it kinda funny considering the situation.
Once you’ve built something that doesn’t immediately die, bring the flex my guy.
ETA - I think you’ll get there man and the K setup has real promise as a legitimate option for people not wanting to do same old, same old.
I still don't understand the hate in this thread. For the purists, if anything this benefits you, one less regular 996 means those with nice examples just gained a few cents of value.
would still cost a fraction of what a single used M96 costs and likely be more fun at the end. Engine swaps may not be everyones cup of tea here...willing to bet there arent many that would even attempt it. But no argument that the m96 is greatly limited in its power/reliability/cost compared to an LS or K series. BaysideFab is doing what he loves. Sometimes engines blow up, who cares. He'll make it work.
Come on, that�s not nice.
I�ve said before, I�m a purist but it�s your car and it�s a free country.
Put what whatever engine you want in your 996.
I even subscribe to your channel and look forward to seeing you blow up another one of those great Honda 4 cylinders.
I�m even willing to make a substantial initial donation and start a fund to pay for a Lambo door kit for your car when it�s able to drive a 100 miles without self-destructing.
And if we don�t raise enough for the doors you�ll receive the full amount in vape juice and Nickelback/Smashmouth CDs.
I don't see almost any hate in the thread, and there probably is far less than deserved given the number of times the OP has referred to the original engine as junk, trash, and slow, which is a pretty obnoxious and uninformed opinion in my book. At high 4's 0-60, the base model 996 was very fast in 2000 for a normally aspirated car, and even competent today given that 23 years later a base 2022 911 still takes 4.0 seconds to get to 60. More importantly, the original engine is an absolute joy in everyday driving. It's even more ridiculous for the OP to make these claims
when he never even drove his friend's car with the K24
to see how it performed in real-world conditions. There is a world of difference between dyno results, and real-world driving. Drive a BRZ to experience that -- 228 hp in a light car and 6.2 second 0-60 time, but feels like a 10-second 0-60 car when driving around town at less than redline (which is how most of us drive 95% of the time in the real world). It's practically the same for all of the Japanese 4-cylinder engines. Of course, the heavy boost he will have in his K-24 has plenty of potential to help the drivability,
if it's engineered correctly
, but he won't know it's like until it's in the car and he actually drive's it -- there is no basis to trash anything until he has something to compare it to. There are also plenty of us long-term 996 owners that have had no meaningful issues -- both my 996's have been extremely reliable long term -- the presumption that they are all going to blow up is the byproduct of internet education.
I love the project, I'm glad he chose to share it with us, I wish him the absolute best, I admire that he has the skills and diligence to do this, I hope he continues to post, and I'm a fan --
just ****ing stop trashing the 996 engine when you haven't even driven a K-24-powered 996
.
.
Does he have a k27?, I thought it was a K24? And the problem with the m96 as I see it, isn�t that they are all going to expire, but the fact that when they do so, it is extremely costly to rebuild.
I think he meant K24. You can rebuild a stock M96 for under 12k but the argument here is building the engine for performance which no one will argue here.
There is plenty of room for "OUTLAW 996's" in the Porsche World.. Custom Wild Body kits and Insane Engine Swaps are a nice diversion..
I had a good friend do one of the first LS Engine Swaps on a 996 that was ever done on a 99 996 Coupe...He was not a Mechanic but an Electrician by Trade but was very mechanically inclined and did all his own DIY mechanic work ( with a little help/advice) and was exceptional in Electrics/Electronics..
He bought a 99 996 roller from another acquaintance of mine for 10K ( at the time running 996's in that condition were only 15K) and installed a used LS engine, took him a over year of hard work/fabricating to get it going again, then he put it up for sale for 30K ..lol ( still didn't have the A/C working or a few other little bugs worked out..)
I thought 30K was a ridiculous price for that compared to getting a running 996 in that condition ( with A/c working and no bugs) for 15K, but I thought his labor has to be worth something and he did eventual sell it for about that price..
Given the changing prices of 996's today maybe 30K isn't so ridiculous for that ( if the A/c works and No Bugs)..
I have build Race Cars from the ground up, and done many highly modified cars, and one thing is for certain, they require a LOT of attention. Much more than Factory assembly line built cars do..
So there is plenty of room for " OUTLAW 996's" and no worries that they will "take over" the 996 World...Because the simple fact is many more people find it more fun to drive their car than to work on it, and if you hand build or buy a hand built engine swapped car, it will require more attention/work than an assembly line built one you can have more "fun driving"..
I am sorry for trashing the m96.I just find it funny because everyone who comments says the same thing. "Love the project hate that you don't like the stock motor, would like it more if you weren't so mean about the m96". This is like the 10th post I've seen just like this and it reminds me of a battered spouse syndrome or something. The m96 just abuses its owners, lets them down and ultimately leave and for some reason they still love them. All I can say is its just cars and motors nothing is personal and a little bit of exaggeration about things keeps it interesting. For the record the M96 isn't the worst motor ever built. there's always the Mitsubishi 3000gt.
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/400x414/im_not_sorry_hahahaha_2bf3bcddc0c8c8d86e9302f4e3b8223ab373c79f.jpg
The plated essentially non serviceable bores with the floating cylinder is the problem in the m96. It�s an all or nothing rebuild, wot anything in between just a roll of the dice. No overview, no honing out bore scratches,
Lots of other engines will tolerate this, but the m96 won�t for long. From an engineering standpoint I agree the engine is hampered from things like sealed bearings to these above issues. Clearly not an engine that was meant to be rebuilt, but replaced if it expired.
??? The M96 isn't even the worst 911 engine. The 2.7 liter 911 engine would cook itself to death in 40k miles, and the head studs would pull out of the magnesium case. A well maintained 2-row IMS 996.1 engine will go many more miles before it needs a rebuild than most of the air-cooled cars (3.0 liter 911 SC excepted).
All
911 engines are very expensive to rebuild.
Porsche probably shouldn't have increased the displacement from 3.4 liters to 3.6 liters at the same time that they reduced the size of the IMS bearing, but Porsche has had many issues with earlier cars also. The timing chain tensioners were an issue from the first 911's from the 60's through the mid 1980's -- very bad things happen when the tensioners fail. They finally fixed the tensioners in 1984 when they introduced a tensioner with both hydraulic and spring pressure.
It's a mystery why Porsche didn't fix the tensioners or ditch the IMS faster, but it is what it is. I've owned air-cooled 911's and 2 996.1's -- I'll take the reliability and durability of the early 996.1 engine over the earlier cars (911 SC excepted).
No, you're not sorry for trashing the M96 so don't say you are.
The fact that you receive a certain kind of reaction 10x more than the one you apparently had expected or wanted tells you that the way you chose to communicate isn't fit for purpose.
There is no algorithm here on rennlist that washes your posts to the top so no need to exaggerate, shout or all those other types of expressional behaviour that helps to get noticed on other social media.
Stick to creating something that doesn't exist yet and go where others haven't gone yet by making the K24 swap work.
We're all happy to join you on your journey but less rennlisters will tag along when you spout negativity that is all too easily (mis)interpreted as 'that guy thinks I'm stupid only because I think the M96 is not that bad'.
This right here! Let�s go through all the issues the Porsche engines have had through the years:
67-71 were all magnesium cased small displacement engines which had a max life expectancy of about 100K miles. After that they were 2 strokes burning and leaking oil. Oh yeah and if the mechanical tensioner failed on the timing chain the engine was junk.
72-73 Upgraded case and cylinders and actually pretty decent engines. Would go to about 120K before eating oil like an old chainsaw. Same mechanical tensioner problem.
74-77 Without a doubt the worst engine ever built by Porsche. Head studs would pull, valves would drop, cranks would spin bearing, air boxes would explode oh and same tensioner problem.
78-83 Probably the best engine Porsche ever made hands down. Had some issues here and there, but could go to 300K miles easy. These were bullet proof.
84-87 Still a good engine but had some valvetrain problems. Tensioner problem finally fixed.
88-97 OK engine that produced good power. Had valvetrain problems that would come and go by year. However the last 993 engines had several campaigns because valves would drop wrecking engines. So again top end issues could still crater the engines.
M96-M97 engines in the Boxster, Cayman and 911 had various issues through the years including the IMS, head cracking, bore scoring and tensioner failures��however they made more of these engines then all of the previous years combined by 2005. Think about that for a minute. I can tell you that 100% of all 74-77 engines suffered head stud problems but only a couple percent suffered IMS problems and they made 1000x more of them is amazing. So when you bash the M96/M97 engine put that in perspective. Honestly the biggest problem with the M96/M97 is not the IMS it is the oil starvation under heavy load. The UIDS finally fixes that problem making the M96/M97 actually a pretty stout motor. That being said I have seen 200K mile plus M96s with the original IMS in them still going strong.
Mezger M96 and newer. This is supposed to be the best motor Porsche made and truth be told it is a pretty good engine. However if you think for a minute this engine is better than the mass produced M96 you are pretty naive. Go over to the 996 turbo GT3 forum and look at the problems. There are a lot of them. Coolant pipes blowing, oil pipes blowing, FMS, RMS, premature ring wear, tensioner failures�..the list goes on. But why don�t we hear more about them? Well the vast majority of these engines are in garage queen ultra low mile cars. Then a lot of them went to the track and are heavily modified, so when they fail you just say it was tracked. Now don�t get me wrong there are some high mileage turbos that have been pretty reliable for their owners, but if you add up the maintenance and repairs in them over 150K mils they paid for a new M96 motor from FSI easily. I know this will ruffle a lot of feathers around here, but I have been working on a fleet of Mezgers in a private collection over the last few years and have to say I am not impressed by their reliability.
So let�s get to this K24 engine. Good for you! You literally put a Honda engine in a Porsche for the sole purpose of pissing off the community. Heck every damn thread I go into around here is talking about the K24. Mission accomplished, you trolled the Porsche community and got the reaction you wanted. I can tell you this though, for all the money you saved on putting a Honda engine in your 996 you will not see that money back at resale time for sure. When you go to sell the car you essentially will be selling it as a running roller. Had you spent 25K on a good quality M96 rebuild you would get a good chunk of that back in resale depending on a lot of variables. At the very least the car will be worth what every other comparable 996 is at that point. Either way you will be 10K under water on the resale value of your car. Look around this community, these are the people you will be selling the car to and they have no interest in it. Most Porsche owners are pretty weird when it comes to buying a used Porsche and having the wrong valve stems on the car can wreck a BAT action. Maybe you can find a sucker, but for the most part there will be no value left to that car depending how much you hacked it up. My guess is though you have enough money this doesn�t matter to you or you would not have done it in the first place. That is wonderful and I hope you have fun in the journey and have many hours of enjoyable driving miles in your car. That is what is important.
My point to this rant is this, the M96 is actually a pretty decent motor when put into perspective. Is it complex and have failure points? Yep However it was in a complex and expensive car to begin with so what is the surprise. If you buy one of these cars and don�t have the money to maintain it maybe you should not have purchased it in the first place. Me personally I have an �engine� kitty account just for the purpose of what would happen if my engine took a crap�.but guess what? I had that money set aside for the engine on my 70, 71 and 77(with an 83 engine) 911s as well. I hope I don�t have to go there and can just use the money to take a vacation at some point, but until I retire or don�t own multiple Porsches I will keep a rainy day pool of money on the side. That is just my strategy.
Can you show an example of where someone got a good chunk of a $25K rebuild back on resale ?
Just wondering cause my opinion is that statement is false.
Also, not all of us, or all perspective buyers are "Porsche owners"... Some of us like fun cars and don't get bent out of shape on who makes it.
This aint no halo car, and for some of us, buying one is not an achievement, it's a means to have fun,
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...e-cayman-s-51/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-4-23/
Look at those 2 actions and my point is proven. Now with the crazy 2022 prices it is hard to judge, but historically lets look at them.
The Cayman even today is maybe a $30K car, but last year more like a $25K car. I know because I am always looking at picking one up if the right deal comes along. So if the build was $20K on the Cayman and the car was worth 25K he got $12K of his $20K investment back. Not too bad. He is $7K down.
The 911 in 2020 with 105K miles on it as it was is probably a $17K car. So he put $20K into the engine and got $27K back. He is 10K down. Little worse. Either way, let’s call it you lose $10K by putting in a Jake Rabe engine and selling right away.
Now wait just a minute on both of those cars. If you were to sell the Cayman today ($45-50K) or that same 911 today ($35-40K) both are worth more money and probably net neutral on money invested. Porsches that are well sorted with high hp engines will always appreciate more in value. To this day I regret not putting a built 2.7l in my 71 instead of rebuilding the 2.2l in it. It would have maybe cost me $5K more to do (a lot of money 20 years ago on the engine build), but today that 71 would be a $100K car instead of a $50K car. So if you are patient and keep the car long term the rebuilt M96 will repay itself.
Your car let’s just pretend is worth $25K with stock engine, but then you sell the M96 in it for $8K and spend $12K to put in a K24. Now the car is worth $16-17K? Lets be fair and call it $19 if you happen to find the right buyer. So you lost the same $10K. The financial argument doesn’t work. If we take this equation out 10 years from now the K24 car will literally be worthless. Collectors will be looking for clean well sorted 996s and a Honda swapped K24 will just be a rolling chassis for a restore nothing more. The guys who put $30K into a 4.0L FSI motor will get every penny back and more. I can prove my point….what is a 84 911 with a 700hp K24 swap in it worth? No where near what a stock 84 911. No one would ever even consider swapping out the stock engine because it would be financial suicide and guess what it costs to rebuild a 3.2L from an 84 right now? Minimum $25-30K.
So if you have fun doing this then more power to you. It takes a lot of skill energy and drive to do any swap. Hope you enjoy it. But to troll the Porsche community into thinking this is the financially better route to go or better car is crap. Seriously. All of us have built project cars and all of us know how to lose money on them. You are doing the same. It is cool and probably a fun shock factor at cars and coffee, but it is not a financially smart thing to do short or long term. Don’t kid yourself. I have been building and selling project cars for 30 years now and I know what makes money and what is a total waste. This is in the total waste department from an investment or resale perspective. However from fun, enjoyment and smiles it may be well worth it. Like you say, you are not a Porsche halo car guy. Perfect then you have no guilt building your perfect fun car.
There is no argument, look at the receipts in the BAT auctions. Today it is closer to $30K, but 2-3 years ago it was $20K. However almost every quality engine rebuild of any high performance mark is that today. Just saw a Mustang GT500 build done for $35K. That is the cost of a quality engine build by an engine builder right now.
I certainly did not do this swap to **** anyone off. (Although I have found Porsche owners to be a particularly sensitive bunch of guys who don't think outside the box too much. Generally speaking of course) I did it because the m96 is very expensive, unreliable and could never meet my power goals and has very limited aftermarket support. As far as resale I can't wait to prove you wrong.
Dude, look at the mods on the Cayman, that guy got absolutely smoked on that and I think the rebuild receipt was 24K.
In any event, I can agree, if your primary concern, or even secondary is resale, this is probably not the most sound endeavor to venture into, although I really don't think a 25 or 30K rebuild is either, just like a 5K pair of MCS aint. just the way it is.
Is that a dig ? Like, would an 18 year olds money not be as green as a 55 year olds who wears a sweater around his neck and listens to Fleetwood mac on the way to cars and coffee ?
Ooohhh... You got him good... Nice one ! high fives all around...
Get over yourselves.
So what about my attitude dont you like? Am I not allowed to my have my own opinion on cars and the motors in them? I know Porsche owners can be a little high and mighty but jeeze. People are allowed to have opinions on certain things. Sorry mine dont line up with yours.
Relax man. Bayside is having fun stirring the pot. He certainly isn't taking it personally. Looks like he is having fun with it. Guy isn't hiding anything. It's all out in the open with his videos. His backhanded compliments are pretty damn funny. Quite frankly, I don't care what engine he puts in his 996.
Hey, as to whether you wear sweaters around your neck and listen to fleetwood mac is up to you. I dont wear sweaters, don't particularly care for Fleetwood Mac and don't do the cars and coffee thing, but whatever works for folks, I am all for it.
Why come in here and disrespect the engine that 99% of us in this forum drive and enjoy. Like, how does it add to what you are doing to say the M96 is junk? What value is added to your project? I mean, you could walk into the delivery room and tell a new mother that her baby is ugly. You might even be right about it� but why do it? Have some tact and maturity.
Im just saying that if you�d just come in here and spoke on the merits of your swap without the Porsche owner and M96 bashing, I�d be more into this. I actually like this kind of stuff. I did question you ripping out a good M96 when there are rollers out there, but your response was 996�s are the least desirable 911�s. Could have just said it made sense financially for you, or that the engine sale financed your swap and left it it that.
Just because someone prefers Porsche engines in a Porsche doesn�t mean that they are against your project. It�s not a binary option.
Why do I have to come in your thread to see an update on your progress and find yet again a post with you calling my engine junk? Ok, I get it you don�t like the M96. In contrast, I don�t recall saying one negative thing about the Honda engine despite a few setbacks.
Like I said, it�s your approach.
Haha you get it!. Its ok to have a little fun. The internet has become so wild that people can't even enjoy something a little outside of the box. Seeing grown adults take these cars with life and death seriousness is pretty comical.
I can see where you might get that impression from 991/992 owners and/or the vintage folks. But there are a ton of 'outlaw' Porsches, for example, that are highly popular and disprove your general opinion. Among 996 owners in particular I have not run across many, maybe not any, of the types of folks you seem dead set on lumping us in with.
I guess the biggest thing to me in that statement is why you bought a Porsche at all. There are plenty of less expensive platforms that would get you to your desired end result.
Anyway. Cutting out all the stuff calling me a snob and a dilettante would make me happy. Keep telling us about your build too; the 996 community "generally speaking" is cool with it.
Just so we are clear here I have done some things purposely to **** other Porsche owners off, but in other ways. When I started my first 911 hot rod project I put turbo 16x8 and 9� wide wheels under a narrow body 71 with just RS flares. However I did them in RSR finish with no center caps. Also took the carbs and threw them in the garbage and did a full Megasquirt EFI conversion. Then I took the car to a PCA councours event because I was pretty proud of it. My score sheet had a note on it by the wheels section for points deducted for missing center caps and torsion bar covers. That�s the look I was going for so I said FU to PCA councours events after I won the season. All the old codgers in the club hated my car. If felt good to be the rebel so I get it.
As for value I hope you get a good return on your project, you put in the time and effort. I am sure it will be a good product too based on what I have seen. However most of the value will be in the celebrity status your car has achieved and hopefully you can capitalize on that. If you hold onto that car for 5 years and everyone forgets about it the value will go down. I have seen this with even nice LS swapped cars and various other project swaps through the years. Long term I would not want to be sitting on that car. As the 996s continue to appreciate in value anything not original will detract from the value. Even on my car I have pulled all the amber and some of the original interior bits. I realize that will hurt long term, but I have it all to put back if needed later. The financially smart thing to do long term is drive the M96 until it beaks and then order a factory short block and put it back together stock. Long term you will get you money back on a crazy engine build. I know this from playing this game for years.
For the record I love Fleet Wood Mac, but am more of an AJR/Glass Animals on a cruise guy, am not 55 yet (coming soon) and love me a good hot rod. So in the spirt of this car I love it. Prove them wrong, but then use the money from selling it to pick up a nice optioned lower mileage Cayman987/Boxster986/996/928 and sell it when they hit peak in 10 years. That is the financially smart thing to do. LOL
I bought this car with the explicit purpose to pull out the stock motor. Put in a Honda k24 then make swap kits available as a rival and give other options to the LS swaps. Icing on the cake is seeing sensitive old men get fired up about a clapped out Honda motor in one of their beloved Porsches (which is widely agreed upon that these runny egg headlight, boxster clones are by far the most hated off all the 911s) making double the power with 25% less engine weight. Wait till you see what I do to the next one I have a deposit on 😂.
@BaysideFab
is worried about being beat by a V6 Camaro if it beeps 3 times on the highway.
@zbomb
believes that horsepower is holding him back from faster lap times.
Both understandably believe that the M96 engine isn�t worth investing serious money in.
Cool
Plus neither one seems to care about the 911 having 60 years of history with a flat six behind the rear axle.
And that it�s arguably the most iconic sports car in history .
They probably think people are crazy for paying 60K + for an air cooled 911 that would get smoked by a Honda Civic.
AND THAT�S OKAY
BUT
Nobody cares what you do with your 996.
Knock yourself out.
Drop in whatever engine you want, wrap it in chrome and put 21� wheels on it.
Because in the end it will stop being a 911 and I wouldn�t cross the road to **** on it if it was on fire.
You might want to schedule a extra therapy session this week it sounds like you are pretty emotional about these cars. I�ve never encountered someone so sensitive to a engines feelings before and comparing my opinion about a engine to a baby human is pretty wild. I would also like to direct you to the first sticky on this forum here where 8.86% of people on here have had catastrophic engine failure with you�re beloved piece of engineering. I bet they don�t feel the same as you either.
I have a YouTube channel where I highlight every ounce of detail about it. It�s much easier to communicate there. I just came back here after months of not being on here to give a update and that lead to this. Aka guys getting all bent out of shape again.
Not defending anyone here but that logic doesn�t add up. Horsepower is a valuable metric and HP:$ ratios do matter to people who actually race. Some people take up some valuable space in your mind if you can�t keep them out of your mouth, the Troll in you is strong.
You are correct 28lbs of boost on a stock block trying to make 700hp will do that. The M96 just kill themselves in stock 250hp form. I can buy 8 k24s for the price I sold my m96 for. I have 6 more to go!!
Just trying to have fun in my car Phil. Yeah, I think it will be faster with more power. Sorry not sorry that pisses you off so bad.
You can now feel free to extricate yourself off my dick at any point dude. Frankly, it’s unbecoming of you.
To try to break this off as painlessly as possible for you, you were my inspiration to figure out how to make the ignore work…
Call as many times as you want baby… daddy ain’t picking up that phone.
Its interesting that you say what you said and then you want to keep the car and swap the engine? Its your baby to do as you please, but you are taking a car specifically engineered and balanced for one engine and putting something completely different in there. Also heavily modded Japanese engines are not historically more reliable than a Porsche engine. Good Luck to ya and I hope you get everything out of it you want!
When people say the 996 was the least desireable 911 that is a question for the individual person, because that certainly wasnt the issue with sales:
The original 911: 111,995 units produced
G Series: 198,496 units produced
Typ 964 Series: 63,762 units produced
Typ 993 Series: 68,881 units produced
Typ 996 Series: 175,262 units produced
typ 997 Series: 213,004 units produced
Typ 991 Series: 168,600 units produced so far
This was numbers from 2017
This is what I love about the internet!
People saying things they would never have the ***** to say to someone�s face.
I�m guessing that you�re around 5� 8� since you reek of little man syndrome
Thanks for the laugh
Looking within next 2 weeks. Car ran fantastic for a month on 10psi. It only blew up because we turned it up and the boost controller got away from my tuner and tried to make way too much power without enough safety built in. (Made 28lbs). I�m going to put it all back together and just run it at 10psi for a while (324hp) I just became a Pulsar turbo dealer so I�m going to try out their 6262g then retune when the time comes and just keep it chill mode (400-425hp) once I get it all squared away and all the details sorted I have a fully built motor ready to go in.
The OP's posts are a fine example of how not to win friends and influence enemies. Which, I believe, is his intent as it draws readership/video watching.
As said above, many times, it's not the project it's the attitude. As a Honda Type R owner I will be watching the project but wouldn't do this to my Porsche.
To each their own.
"Can't we all just get along..."
I'm on my third Porsche and after selling two of them and dealing with so many buyers, I feel that a LS or K24 swap 911 would not be attractive to the majority of 911 buyers. It's a niche audience. But there are quite of few that have done LS swaps. There's even a FB group for those guys. Personally, I would see the K24 swaps attractive to Boxster owners. Before you laugh and roll your eyes, think about it. 986 Boxsters are tanking in value. I recently searched FB marketplace and couldn't believe how many 986 were being sold in my area for under $10,000. (see image below) Therefore, someone that is driving a car that's not worth much may find a K24 swap an attractive alternative over paying for a M96 replacement engine that could be cost more than twice the value of the car.
I would call this scenario the next opportunity like we had 5 years ago with the 996. It�s an unbelievable value. Maybe in 10-15 years, the Boxster will be worth $30k all day long.
How did it get to 28psi with the current wastegate spring? Is it an external gate? On the gates I have used, the gate spring rating is the minimum boost, , and the most that can be accomplished is about 2x the spring rating.
Thins is true�. Most of the time. But� sometimes the waste gate does not see enough actual exhaust flow to sufficiently divert, the exhaust blows by the waste gate so to speak.
You see this on V8 single turbo applications pretty frequently where there is a ton of exhaust to contend with, sometimes requiring multiple gates to deal with, especially if packaging means optimal waste gate placement is difficult or impossible to achieve.
Not saying that�s what happened here, but certainly something that can and does happen.
Since this project has an intended market to be filled, just curious if there is a projected "kit price" including labor cost, necessary OEM parts, and will it have full accessories such as A/c, Ps, and all necessary parts for them, and full electronic integration, ie Tach , full gauge integration and OBDII diagnostic functions...and what about CARB/Smog legalization?
All things tallied up?
Oh OK, Alabama doesn't do smog testing either. but some shops still have been busted for "emission violations" by the FEDs....lol
I didn't know the OP was in Florida..
twin tial 44mm gates. Held boost perfectly at 10 psi. It was once we introduced the 4 way mac valve into it in order to turn it up is where it went south. 3% added to the solenoids duty cycle netted 10psi of boost. Aka it was more or less uncontrollable in a reliable manor and I didn�t realize it at the time. Switching to a 3 port Mac valve moving forward.
everything on my car works except tach, oil press and engine temp. That�s super easy but not my focus this second. I also run a haltech ic7 digital dash which shows me anything I�ll ever want to know plus can integrate with the stock turn signals, headlights etc etc. but right now ac works, power steering, Speedo etc. all I have is a check engine light for some reason 😂. As far as making it carb legal 😂😂😂. I don�t support communist regimes. (And yea I lived in California)
The biggest issue was the boost controller itself and how sensitive it is. Being a 10lb +/- in boost with only 3% duty input is crazy. I just wished in hindsight my tuner would have just said " Hey this thing sucks lets go another route on another day" instead of forcing a bad part. As a fyi after to talking to multiple people the 4 port Mac valves are very difficult to control under 20ish psi I guess.
Yes, too many TV and Youtube "DIY" videos hide their failures and mistakes.
He's had some bad luck and he has not hidden it.
Even though I'd never want a K swapped Porsche, I hope he is ultimately successful.
I just hope he doesn't end up on engine 10 in the process.
But if he does, he will certainly know what works and what doesn't.
Failure is a learning process.
If you never fail, you really haven't learned the limits.
Yeah that's a total bummer but kudos for not giving up. When all else fails, maybe turning to Subaru might be a good choice if he wants to marry JDM with DTM
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/sem...u-boxer-engine
Heck, a fully built STI short block is less than $5k
https://crawfordperformance.com/prod...31154665652297
and you can get new OEM short blocks for a little over $2k all day. At least it will still be a flat motor
Kind of heartbreaking to watch and can't help but admire the persistence.
I think there are two things that could be done to help identify what is wrong.
The first would be to record the video with the engine at 1000rpm (or any steady RPM) for at least 10 seconds, then play back the video in slow motion to count the number of knocks heard in a 10 second period -- if it's 1/4th the frequency of the RPM, then it's specific to a given cylinder, if it's the same frequency as the RPM, it's something turning 1:1 with the engine, if it's a different frequency then it could be something like the flywheel.
The second is to use a mechanics stethoscope to determine exactly where the sound is coming from (
Amazon
Amazon
).
I suspect doing both of the above will make it possible to identify the source of the problem.
So when someone you don't care for posts something you disagree with your answer is to attempt to make that person look bad.
Got it...perfect...very adult of you.
Thanks for your contribution...
I�ve learned more about the M96 from those videos than all other resources combined.
But I understand it�s difficult to learn when you think you know everything.
I see at least one ticket per day that mentions these same videos. This has gone on for the past 8 months or so, and I have never seen a single complaint. Generally what I see is very supportive of the way the material is compiled and delivered. The viewers can tell that no one involved cares about the amount of clicks that a video gets, but more about what the viewer actually takes away from the video.
These videos are technically academic. They do not involve entertainment, and cross the boundaries for being direct and blunt. Most were uploaded as support items for technicians who don't care about entertainment or delivery, they just want the info that it takes to diagnose an engine and repair it properly.
It�s probably semantics at this point but there should�ve been more of an emphasis on a bare swap first and then add all bolt ons. The one thing I will say that I would�ve done differently would�ve been a Kraftwerks or HKS supercharger. They�re compact and make great power for being a smaller unit.
I kinda agree with the above. I would have popped for a K20C engine like the Honda Type R has at 306 hp and 295tor. The tuner dudes with mods are easily getting 450-500hp. The crazies are pushing 600 plus.
Rotrex superchargers are underrated in my opinion and they make some pretty big ones too. I had a HKS 7040 in my 350z and it made 400whp, very quiet until you passed 5000rpm� **** sounded like an airplane. If I ever get a chance to swap a VR6 in a 996/997, it�ll be supercharged.
Bayside has a great opportunity to do a K24 swap and demonstrate that it works, which he hasn't just yet. In one of his videos, he seemed pretty impressed the the LS swapped engine in his buddy's car so maybe he will do an LS swap with his 2nd 996 and provide a compare and contrast. It would be great content.
But...will he take the swapped engines far enough to bullet proof them for the track. If they can handle track duty, they can handle street duty.
I've thought about this too.. I have a supercharged VR6 in a different car. The trouble is it's hard to get more than 270-280 HP from a supercharged 12V VR6.
Since we keep wasting time entertaining this thread why don't we turn it to good. Here is what I am thinking.
First of all the idea of swapping a 4 cylinder into a 911 isn't a new one and Porsche has done it since the first 911 and continues to do it to the Cayman and Boxster. So it isn't such a horrible idea. However why don't we talk about the merits of actually putting in a good 4 cylinder that was help designed by the company the 911 was made by. Heck the engine is in a lot of Porsches right now. What is it? The VW EA888 2.0T! Same argument as the Honda K series except it was designed from day one to be a performance engine not an economy engine. They are a dime a dozen since they have come in VW GTIs, Golf R, Jettas, Passats, Tiguans, Audi A3, A4, A5, A6, S3, Q3, Q5 and Porsche Macan. Not to mention the Euro models and Chinese models I am not even touching on. Heck I am pretty sure more the EA888 engine has been produced then the Honda K series.
So why do I suggest this? Well even in crappiest weakest form the engine makes 200hp, but with just a tune and nothing else goes over 300hp. With a downpipe and tune a lot of them can get close to 400hp. Pop on a slightly bigger turbo without changing anything else and we are talking close to 500hp......OK maybe you need bigger injectors. Anyway, it is reliable as all get out, sounds like a lawn mower same as the Honda K and has an aftermarket support as big if not bigger than the Honda community.
Thoughts? Who wants to try?
I'm no supercharger expert but I know an old Bugeye Sprite with a supercharger that is wicked fast on the AutoX track. Pretty sure that is a small displacement engine.😜
Nnnnooo! not Air Cooled!!! Wrong forum!!!
Two strokes are actually very cool! Few moving parts and as long as you don't lean them out too much they run forever. Lots of old school two stroke dirt bikes and racing kart experience here. I've carved on my share of pistons, crankcases, crankshafts and cylinder ports. Lot of speed left in those pieces from the factory. Now if you can figure out how to marry 10 or 12 of those tricked out on the inside...
Hah! My 25 year old Lawnboy is still running as good as new. Yep, I do miss ripping around on my CR 125 Elsinore back in the day. Those peaky bastards were a hoot.
Hah! Absolutely nothing better than the exhaust smell and plume of smoke coming from a 2 stroke. I was green before the greenies misunderstood what it actually meant.
Great picture by the way. You should take one with it sitting next to your 996 and post.
Looks all original. A likely candidate for BringATrailer. Do you have the options list? Seems pretty rare.
Back to topic: The quality of the line is only as good as the input material. The next engine should be a known runner with known maintenance history. Hard to do from junkyards. And maybe drop the pan to look for stuff. Good luck.
Agreed. I want to see Bayside succeed. But at this stage, the premise of cheap, durable and powerful hasn't become a reality with any of his $500 engines that failed quickly and often.
Yes, a $500 engine is still cheap, but the way he us going thru engines, he would be better off buying a factory M96 short block and doing it right or rebuild the original M96 by making it better, faster and stronger. Probably be a hell of alot cheaper, plus it certainly wont kill the resale value of the car like a K24 time bomb will. IMHO if he has to do a swap, an LS would make more sense.
This is not a criticism of Bayside, I kinda like the guy and his persistence. I certainly admire his ability to fabricate things in the fly without even blinking. But I get it, sometimes a mans got to do what a man's got to do.
Prove the non-believers wrong Bayside.
I agree. So far this has been an excellent exercise in what not to do...
3 $500 engines ( $1500) is nothing in the grand scheme of things... 3 engine R&R's on the other hand is substantial... at a value of $2k each .. thats' $6k in labor value..
Not counting the cost of the conversion parts and all the little fab work...It's looking like a $10K+ cost and still at the a roller stage ...
Things can go wrong even when using "known good" parts, but when using "unknown" parts and using the word "Slap" too often, Then you are counting on mainly luck to get you through. Luck can be good or bad... a more meticulous approach would have had a better outcome, but is not as entertaining for videos.( Hoovie) .
I think he will get it going on the next attempt...
VR6 is a 2.8 liter engine, so not small displacement in my book. Yes, the supercharger sucks up 50hp @ 7200 RPM - but it adds 90 net hp at the same engine speed. Dyno'd before @ 150 WHP, after at 240 WHP, running 7 pounds of boost.
Haha, I need to pull both out of the garage for photo shoot.
This picture just shows that my lawn (weeds) needs some attention.
100% stock, low mileage, 2 owners and a clean Carfax
Should bring the big money. I just need to get some professional photos.
I agree
Despite my (maybe not obvious) sarcasm I�m rooting for him to succeed.
Fully built 900hp rated bottom end is installed and currently have a couple hundred miles on it. Going to drive it a bit and make sure everything is good to go before it gets turned up. Lesson learned here is to not even mess around with installing used motors. Just punch out the bores .5mm and do pistons/rods setup with a complete fresh bottom end and a refreshed top end and call it a day. They are cheap enough to build and you�ll save a ton of headach. Plus it will be capable of 600hp+ no problem.
I don�t know, seems a little like someone who buys a Porsche and can�t afford it so the search for a way to do it cheap is the goal. Also, whoever said the sound of a K motor is as good as a flat six seriously needs to see a doctor asap.
pls bro you have to pay to play bro you don't understand it doesn't matter if an engine rebuild costs more than the value of the car bro pls just close your eyes bro I promise I'm not going to share an exhaust video of a Subaru forester and tell you how good the Porsche flat 6 sounds pls bro
Not sure if that was directed at my comment, but if it was please know that there is a big difference between �cheap� and �poor� and at no point did I insinuate the OP as poor. Cheap yes lol.
There is an old adage that I think could apply to your incoherent run on sentence. �It is better to be thought a fool, than to open one�s mouth and remove all doubt.�
If you don�t recognize that meme format, you can just admit it without being all high and mighty.
For the record, I am a big fan of this swap. Love seeing creative and outside the box builds.
I'm poor and don't mind anyone knowing it... I can't change the way the world thinks, but what they don't know is that I can't comprehend those who can have a 2004 -05-06 Carrera GT out of warranty...
Take one of those bad boys around the block...it's "only 600hp" but feels and sounds like 2k......
Just spent hours on reading this post lol
His setup looks more complicated and I don't like exhaust pipes sticking out of trunk. But good job getting it to work.
I've been following Tuning by Nick from Canada and his look really nice and everything is truly worked. He's done 997 and I think currently works or already done on 996.
I am not planning on doing k-swap, not yet at least.
But if my Porsche's engine goes down and fixing it will cost more than $2,000, I am definitelly spending time and money to K-Swap it TuningbyNick way.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
