Used Car Stealerships

I have a good friend looking to buy his first Porsche and asked for me to look at a few with him. The other night we went to a local used car dealership that specializes in higher end models to look at a 1999 996 cab. We saw the car advertised by this group about a month ago. The car has 51,000+ miles and advertised as a black with black top and tan interior in clean condition. So we make an appointment and go look at the car. The salesman meets at the door and takes us over to the car. During the walk he is telling us he dosen't know much about the car since they just put it on the lot 3 days ago. Yes if you are following along we saw the advertisement a month ago. And the car fax they give us shows they have had the car since April. We begin to look at the car and imediately see damage to the passenger side door several nicks and marks around the car and general condition that I do not consider "clean". As we continue to check it out, the power seat adjustment button is broken, the latch is missing on the back seat, the rear spoiler does not go up on one side, etc, etc, etc. Next they tell us the engine has been completely re-done. We ask what does that mean. "Oh, we take it to a local indy shop that went through and re-built it completely. Me, under my breath "bull$hit". Saleseman, "and it has some type of warranty. So we ask what exactly was done? Unfortunately he has no idea and the service people are gone. So we ask them to call my friend the next day and tell us what was done and what is this warranty. Next day they call and tell him the engine was replaced under warranty and they put a "Metzger" engine in it which is a different design and will never have the IMSB issue. Now I know there is no way a factory replacement was done with anything other than a factory 3.4 motor. End result is I told my friend that he needs to get either a screamming deal or run don't walk away from this place. Do all used stealerships have lying scum as salesmen? If it had been an unknowing purchaser they would have been ripped off. On goes the search.

It is probably impossible to get a deal sufficiently good to be deemed screaming good on a car from that guy. That's some fraud level stuff.

Most (not all) car salesmen are morons. I bought a new GMC pickup this year and the salesman struggled to go over some of the basic features of the vehicle with me. Maybe I'm not the typical customer who is mostly concerned with cup holders and USB ports, but I still expect a car salesman to know a few things about the car. The scenario that you described sounds criminal to me too. I'd love to see documentation of the Mezger engine installation.

If you trust any car salesman about anything, you'll likely be sorry. Trust no one.

Everything a car salesman tells you is intended to get you to buy the car as soon as possible and to pay as much for it as possible. That this salesman offered up some obviously incorrect info about the car in question suggests he is at the bottom of his class in salesmanship. 'course, not to let him off the hook but the car could be a real stinker of a car that only lies, if I may call what he said this, can make the car at least appear desirable. That is no excuse but it takes a good salesman to be able to turn someone away from what he has his heart set on for the likely outcome is the person will then just leave and go elsewhere. When I encounter a situation like this, where I catch the salesman in lies though I do not let on I have caught the salesman in lies -- not often thank goodness just once in a great while -- I walk away. I have no desire to do business with a business that employs such sales people.

It'd be fun to press him for documentation! Act really interested, but insist he back up his lies. Tell him you think the price is great! I know, who has time for these clowns.

We are continuing to let them think he is interested. We have asked for documentation of the engine replacement. We have also requested documentation of the claimed warranty. I know they are tasked with selling cars for as much as they can. I never let on to them that we know of the lies. I am disappointed that sellers of high end vehicles don't equate themselves with better honesty.

Go private party, Factory Porsche dealer w/warranty, or Carmax with/warranty.

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Indeed. I bought my car from a kind of skeazy used car dealership. But, I didn't expect them to know much about the car. In fact, every time I have bought a new car, I have found that I know more about the car than the sales guy. You need to be the one who evaluates the car, and not rely on ANYTHING the sales guys say.

Quotes source post: 12492120

Same here. Right on the money Cuda!

I own a small used car dealership and we're not all scum. In fact most people in dealerships are not. We depend on the public for our income, so we must put our best foot, and product, forward at all times. Word of mouth is THE biggest advertisement and I take it very seriously, and I bet 9 times out of 10, the manager of the guy you were dealing with would like to hear about your experience. If you are looking to buy a specialty car like this, you do all your due diligence researching problems it may have and pricing and whatnot, but then you just walk up on the lot and let whatever schmo is standing on the curb help you. Call ahead and talk to a receptionist or a manager, tell them youd like to work with an experienced salesman or even one who may specialize in this type of car. I guarantee you will have a totally different experience and will probably be greeted by a manager. Instead youre wasting your time by stringing this (clearly bad) salesman along. Again, this guy should not have been greeting a 911 customer, but the manager may not know who hes got out there. A lot of guys interview well and then are HUGE disappointments once they hit the ground. We are a business just like any other and if a dealership isn't treating customers like they are the number one priority, then they wont be around long in todays world.

if their lips are moving, they are lying Actually that what some old time dealers say about customers

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where is the high end vehicle in this situation?

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bull****.

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Don't take this the wrong way, actually I don't know why I said that cause I don't think you would care! But LOL! You say what you think no matter what, but most of the time like 99.99999999% of the time, you are spot on! Mike

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So many people are caught up in the notion that used car dealers are still like they were in the 70s and 80s. Not possible in todays world. My market is no longer my little town, its nation wide because of the internet. Not saying we're all straight and honest but theres a whole lot more honest guys out there these days than youd think.

Don't worry about quadcammer, he's just here to be angry.

Tags already exist to properly label this thread.

lol just saw the tags. Im not sweating anyone online, don't worry.

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No. Dealers buy junk and pawn it onto unsuspecting or unknowlegeable customers as if it were gold. The reason this doesn't come back to bite you is that the average person has no clue what mechanical or cosmetic shape they are in, and cars on the whole have gotten more reliable. Once they go to trade that car in and the paint meter comes out, then it's a different story. If the car has had a bad history, it's "I don't know much about it". If it's been in an accident, it's "clean carfax". You may not flat out lie, but you certainly aren't forthcoming about what you know. Realistically, buyers should do their homework and do thorough ppis, but we all know that foe the most part that doesn't happen. You may get lucky and get decent cars, but when you buy a dog, it gets listed like it just won at pebble beach

so this is why you have 9000+ posts.

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Boy, someone has had a bitter experience before. I hope your outlook on girls from all the girls that wronged you in your lifetime isn't the same either. "Bull**** B!tch!, you suck my **** and steal my money. You are all ****** and good for nothing gold diggers!"

While shopping for a car for my daughter, we checked out a car at a local used lot. We test drove a Focus. The car kept stumbling, almost stalling, and making funny noises. The salesman said "That's normal, all Fords do that." Needless to say, we went elsewhere.

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Different situation, but yeah there are a lot of unpleasant women out there. Sales people's only goal in life is to separate you from your cash by any means necessary. Be it smooth talking, a good product, or out right bullahitting, whatever it takes will occur. Same goes for contractors and the majority of service providers, including repair shops.

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I think Quad is painting with far too broad a brush. As Nick said, there's no room for the stereotypical sleazy used car dealer from the 70's and 80's. Some are still out there, and they may stand up a storefront and get away with selling sh*t for a period of time, but the market WILL weed them out. The internet has greatly leveled the playing field as far as creating informed buyers. But that creates some personal responsibility on the buyer to know what they should be on the lookout for. Know the car you are trying to buy, know the ins-n-outs of that year/make/model. Honestly, a 996 buyer has no excuse to not be relatively well-informed on what to look out for if they stumble into this forum at some point in their research process. Will there be people who still manage to get 'taken' by the occasional bad apple dealer? Yes, and those dealers (or maybe it's just a couple bad salespeople) who knowingly take advantage of that are undeniably a$$holes. But that number should be going down as a generation of better-informed buyers comes along. But keep in mind, dealers sometimes get the short end of the stick too when some knucklehead trades-in or sells their car that they know is about to implode due to deferred or non-existent maintenance that isn't always visually evident. If I was a dealer taking a 996 trade-in with a super-fresh oil change, you can bet I'd look extra hard at that car. Just sayin'.

I still disagree. I see it happen all the time. Joe customer with honda, toyota, whatever, fancies an upgrade and goes to the used car lot to look at mb, bmw, audi, jag, etc. This cheap prestige buyer, which makes up a fair bit of the "high line" market, doesn't know their *** from their elbow when it comes to cars. As long as the car runs and drives ok, they will believe all the bs spewing from the dealers mouth. The real surprise is when they get their first dealer service. Then you get the forum posts like "just bought used c class, now needs 2500 in repairs, what do I do?" This is very common because buyers lack the interest in doing research, utilizing common sense, shop on nothing but price, and are generally trusting of dealers who "seem nice". They may not be pouring 75w-90 into the motor and hoping it won't knock until you leave the lot, but they are purposely omitting material information they should know about the cars and will tell you almost anything to close the deal

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I have to agree with this scenario but there still needs to be sales people out there to try to provide a good buying experience and any support they may need to give to potential client. No one will ever say this is a crap car and do not buy it. True that buyer may not know better but as the saying goes... Fool me once... Fool me twice...

Quadcammer what line of business are you in?

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I don't think most used car dealers go into the business intending for it to turn out that way, but when you're reselling auction cars, you will end up with plenty of average cars, for which there is a lot of competition (read: 3/5 series, c/e class, a4, etc) and you gotta make your car appealing. Only so much you can do for cheap with the car, so you make up for it with salesmanship and bluster. The concept of a good highline dealer is great and very appealing. There are some out there, but very few. If you look on ebay, every used dealer out there claims they buy nothing but the best. Just not possible.

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Sorta like all the Italian Beef joints around here where every sign says "worlds best Italian beef", lol.

And then you have used car buyers like Yoav Gilad who buy from a close friend a 16 year old Porsche with 145,000 miles for about 70% of the wholesale market price without a PPI, and then take it back to the friend and demand that he buy it back because someday it might need a new clutch and tie rod ends. For a car dealer, a douchebag like Yoav Gilad is a nightmare and the dealer will end up being one of my bankruptcy clients if they have too many clients like Yoav. Can you imagine for a moment what it would be like to deal with that tool? Car dealers are not non-profit charities - they have families to feed and mortgages to pay just like everyone else. If you come in like Quadcammer's Joe Customer example and buy a used luxury vehicle without knowing your "*** from your elbow", then caveat emptor. And, although I am an attorney, I've had a used car dealer's license since 2001 and grew up around the business as my grandfather had a car lot. The business has changed tremendously since the 1970's. Even a small-time used car dealer can easily have half a million dollars of inventory to manage. If they aren't good businesspeople, they will also end up as one of my bankruptcy clients. NickHolloman - I feel for you. It's a tough business.

It's a two way road people...problem for most buyers is they don't have time nor the background to intelligently select a product. As a sales guy I make an honest living selling people the best solution, albeit there will always be some shortcomings. If car sales people belabored all the fine details they would lose money and scare more customers away. Those same customers would then buy from the blow hard up the street. As my grandma says "Don't hate the player...hate the game."

I had the "Worlds Best Coffee" in Evanston, IL last year. It was not. But Al's Italian Beef made up for it and I want to live within walking distance of SuperDawg. I'm sure you have a local favorite but I'm from Florida and have no Italian beef references to compare. Sorry to thread jack but you inspired me. Thanks Alps!

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And brokers. Add brokers of all ilk to your list. I deal with 'em every day. Have learned not to trust a word from them.

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Given my career as a securities regulator, I agree wholeheartedly. Same salesman, nicer suit (sometimes)

In our case, when the lot is full of Limbo's, M3's, AMG's and Porsche's I consider it a high end dealership. Quality product will sell itself. There is no need to lie. An honest representation of how long a car has been on your lot will not hurt the sale. If this is the type of vehicle you sell, you should know something about them. A knowledgeable salesmen will become a trusted source with return customers. A liar will be caught and become hated. Am I expecting too much from society? Am I being na�ve in my old age?

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I used to live 2 blocks away from Al's and even though it's considered a Chicago icon, it's not the same as it used to be due to various changes. I now live 15 min from Superdawg(they expanded to a couple more locations) and even that isn't the same anymore, although it still has the nostalgia of a drive in. With Hot Dougs closing its doors recently, Chicago Hot Dogs is a decent place. I recently had their Rattlesnake/Rabbit sausage combo and it was pretty good. If you want THE hotdog, you can try Palmer House hotel where every aspect of the hot dog is made from scratch in the back kitchen including grinding and casing the sausage, bun from scratch, French fries from scratch, even the ketchup is made from scratch.

Is this a real story here or just made up to get some laughs? The OP did not call the guy out? I would have right away, showing me a car fax from a month ago but you just got the car. For some reason the whole story stinks me and has gotten all of you all riled up. Can I get some proof, name of the dealer, sales person, link to the car for sale.

I assure you this story is 100% true. I did not call him out because that is not my style. We would have gained nothing by the confrontation that would have occurred. And no, my calling him out would not have benefitted the next customer, because I think he would do the same thing anyway. http://www.prestigeautomall.com/web/...Ohio/21338770/ Link to the dealership and specific car. I am not a liar like the salesman!

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+1 I bought my car from a used dealership that specializes in higher end used cars, and my experience was great. The most pressure I got was from my girlfriend, and his attitude was that the car had a great price (I did) and would sell in a few weeks to a month once spring got going, so he really didn't need me to buy it or force me to buy it. The only bad thing about dealing with them was their financing (I'm on the lower income level around here, and can't go buy a Rolex anytime I want) wasn't as good as my bank/employer, but it was really a smooth deal. Now on the flip side, I asked about the PMS deal and they weren't going to move on price. Again, either I was going to buy it or someone else was, and it's a sellers market at that price anyway, but all in all it was a good deal and I would go back and buy another car from them. In fact, with financing I would need to buy another car from them or another dealer anyway.

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The car has PMS That will cut down on how many days a month you can drive the car. Very dangerous to drive a car with PMS

In any metro area, there are reputable used car dealers with capable sales/service staffs...and there are dirt bags. Join the local PCA club and then ask around. You'll quickly learn about the good guys and the bad guys. relinuca

I bought my 996 last December from an authorized Porsche dealer in Florida....sight unseen. The price was low but some things were not disclosed. Obviously, I knew I had to dump $$$ into it but some things should have been thoroughly checked by the technicians. Thankfully they refunded me some money after the purchase. Very nice of them but one expects some standards when buying a Porsche from an authorized dealer, even if its a 2001. I guess this is why the dealers typically just auction off the older cars, less of a headache.

I'm sure this is a quality Boxster. photo369.jpg

You can't paint all dealers with a broad brush but you do need to be armed with as much information going in as possible. The salesman's goal is to sell the car. There are salesmen who really know about the cars they are selling and those who don't put in any effort. When I bought my boat, the salesman had a lot of incorrect information about it but I knew what it had and what it didn't. In that regard I was able to get it at a lower price because he undersold the features.

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^This^ !!! You can also add Doctors and Lawyers to the top o' the list...

I had a dealer tell me the same thing about the same exact problem with a C2 my wife and I test drove!! T

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+996!!

^ ^

Not all car dealerships are as pathetic as the one in the original post - but there are varying degrees of dishonesty, deception, and outright stupidity no matter where you go. When you're dealing with a used-car lot that carries random inventory, it invariably gets worse. At least at a new-car dealership, you have sales people who (hopefully) know a bit about the manufacturer and the models in its lineup. When you have a used-car lot with 15 different makes and 100 different models, odds are the sales person knows precisely **** about each car. The kid I bought my CPO Boxster from was a Porsche enthusiast - in addition to knowing his stuff about all of the models they were selling, he could carry on an intelligent conversation about PSM, differentials, etc. and could discuss intelligently the features on my Boxster vs. some of the other vehicles. On a used-car lot where the salesperson might make a hundred bucks off the car, he has no incentive to be this knowledgeable about the inventory. Even if you get a semi-intelligent sales person at a used-car lot, they just won't have the depth of knowledge about a specific car. Acronyms like VVT/CVT/CVVT can mean different things for different manufacturers - as others have said, odds are you'll know more about the specific car you're there to look at than the sales staff does. So yeah, OP, your dealership experience sounds ESPECIALLY shady, but not that much worse than I've seen other places. Oddly enough, Carmax seems to have some of the least terrible sales people. I haven't and won't ever buy a car from Carmax, but I have sold them a couple of cars and listened to them working with buyers...

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SOME consumers now take advantage of the information available, but the vast majority of consumers are too busy / disinterested / lazy and do no research, or at most, maybe a KBB price check and a Car & Driver new-car review or two. Hopefully the information on the Internet will continue to reduce the likelihood of a car buyer showing up with their father/mother/brother - AKA The Person Who Knows Everything About Cars - whose job it is to ask annoying questions of the salesperson and act knowledgeable when the salesman says stuff that nobody else understands.

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I think they should have gone with another name - instead of Prestige Auto Mall, they should think bigger. Hm...maybe...Prestige Worldwide? PRESTIGEWORLDWIDE.jpg Boats-n-hoes...

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Well and most people aren't car people or engine people. So they may either miss noises or feelings while driving the car, where as taking a friend along may be the best way to go. Also with CarFax and other things, I really couldn't care less about what a sales person says. I'm going to make my own mind up about the car and look over things myself - all they really need to do is take the money if the purchase moves forward.

They installed a Mezger engine! Sure they did. Bwahahahahahahah. Run away. Fast.

Funny thing about that comment is that it's so random, yet (obviously) Porsche-specific. Why would some asshat sales clown say such a thing - or even know what a Mezger engine is? There is untold story here.

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Was that before or after the IMS Guardian was removed after indicating lots of metal bits in the oil?

Eventually someone is going to buy this car and ask lots of rennlist questions on how to fix things. That will be one hell of a thread.

I know it won't be my friend who buys it. I'm also going to put this dealership in my memory bank as one to avoid!

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Sales person could have saw a internet informed tire kicker who wasn't really interested in buying the car and/or would have been too much trouble to sell to - so they made stuff up to get them out the door. [edit] or they got confused and were thinking about another car, then started to make stuff up or remember what they think they heard about it. [edit] It looks like that's a pretty clean car, you have carfax, a test drive should sniff out some of the obvious stuff, and a look around it should show if the engine or stuff was replaced. I'm not sure what the deal here is other than the sales person was bad, but if the car was the right one and in shape I wouldn't let that run me off. Or they had a friend in mind they were selling it to and didn't want to move it in the mean time.

From the car dealers website linked: Porsche 911 Carrera Warranty Information 6 Month, 6,000 Miles - Buy with Confidence Today 6 MONTHS / 6,000 MILES, Whichever comes first This Vehicles Warranty is provided for you by Prestige Auto Mall, at NO additional cost. Drivetrain Plus Coverage - Contact us today, for details ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also qualifies for the Carfax buy-back guarantee. However, I've never heard of anyone, anywhere successfully getting Carfax to buy a car back on their guarantee, so tread with caution. Look folks. A used car sales person is tasked with selling the car at the greatest profit for the dealer and themselves. This is a known quantity. If the sales guy tells you something, make him back it up. I want to hear about the engine replacement. So far - we've got a few minor breakages that happen to many of these cars. If he can back up the repl engine deal, and will honor the dealer's stated guarantee, what's the problem? Salesman is not as 996 wise as you? Congrats.

He said it had a replacement Metzger engine. That's fraud. Fraud. Not "gee, he doesn't know that car very well" oopsies. That's a false statement upon which the buyer was to rely.

I'm with DTM on this one.

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So after promising they would fax/email the engine information and promised warranty information, they called my friend and said it would be much easier if he came to the dealership to go over everything and discuss the deal. Any excuse to get him there to lie more. My friend never returned the call. Sale ended "No Sale". Lost due to obvious lies and misrepresentation.

In 1987 I thought being a car salesman would be the ideal job. Hangout with cars & car people all day, & dazzle customers with your automotive knowledge, what's not to like? Well i soon learned knowing too much about cars & not enough about people was a big problem. Every morning we would watch sales training films, my fave was where you write up a full list price sales contract & tell Mr. Customer to just sign on the bottom line & it's all yours! Mr. Customer replies, "you must think I'm some kind of idiot to pay full price! To which you say "no sir I didn't, but if you were I sure didn't want to miss you!

The only thing sold in a worse manner than cars is health coverage. If I go to see a doctor and he recommends tests or some sort of procedure, I ask "How much will it cost me." Invariably, he says "I don't know." Later, bills start arriving. Maybe one in a couple months from the doctor. The a month or two later one from from the lab. Then maybe another month or two later one from from some third-party doctor, etc. I call to ask whether I have received all of the billing, and no one knows. %$#@!

I'm surprised when anyone expects a used-car salesperson to be anything other than the guy who can get the key so you can go for a test drive. Maybe if you're at a brand dealership and buying CPO, there's a better chance the guy will know his stuff, but on a no-name lot carrying dozens of makes and models, the onus is on the buyer to know what they want and to avoid getting boned. Some of the new-car sales guys are fantastic at their jobs - but in their case, the job is to be knowledgeable and be able to answer questions. That said, it does **** me off to no end when I show up to look at a car that I have clear intentions to buy and (1) I don't get the time of day from the sales staff, or (2) they know NOTHING about the product. If you can't pretend to give a damn about what you're selling, you'd better offer an amazing deal or I'm going somewhere else...

In the case of the original and subsequent posts, the salesman made statements that could not possibly be true. I understand generic used car stealership not being knowledgeable about the various makes and models, but this guy made statements that were simply false.

Car sales people add zero value. That profession won't even exist in a few years. What do they do that I can't find in about 5 minutes online?

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100% agree with Shell on this one. I have a used car dealer here, and this is exactly how the guy acts. Grabs the keys and hands them to me, and sticks a license plate and tells me to go have a nice test drive. It's my job to test the car and be aknoledge about it. Heck, with multi brand off lease dealers like that, what more one can expect?? Research what you buy and use it to your advantage.

And why was this thread resurrected again?

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See posts 1348 and 1354 here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-finds-90.html

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People who are not automobile enthusiasts can't bother to do that. They need someone to tell them about the Wifi and Bluetooth features on the car in person.

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How about them Chevy commercials that tries to sell their car purely because it has built in wifi hotspot? The car industry is catering more and more to the people that shouldn't be driving it in the first place. They are afterall why we also have big azz clunky side view mirrors as well on decent cars, otherwise.

Quotes source posts: 13167580, 13167628, 13168295, 13171228

I have nothing against car dealers, but I only look at them as a party to facilitate the transaction, not for me to learn about the vehicle in any way. I only believe what I can figure out on my own as I examine the vehicle. Of course it will, though the position is morphing into something different than it has been. Someone had additional thoughts about the topic. There's no time limit, you know. Different people have different needs. If your office is inside a vehicle and/or you regularly tow things, both of those features are very usable...both happen to apply to me. Anyway, the Camry buyers feel the same way about us having cramped cars that can go 175mph.

They will have robots/AI selling cars (or pods that drive themselves) soon enough. JP Morgan is piloting their "teller replacement" ATM at many locations now. With my generation (millennials) being the first of the cell-phone obsessed anti-social generations, it only makes sense that most of the traditional person-to-person sales jobs will be gone within the next 25 years. Look around yourself at any major social event. Every person is out with their electronic pacifier; twitting, snapchatting, instagraming to people they never met.

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That's the one where they debadge the car and the "testers" say stupid crap like "It reminds me of an Audi" or "Is this a BMW?" No. No it's not. It's a blatant attempt to sell something to that mystical population of "millennials" that they don't understand but are pretty sure only like phones and tablets.

I love the ones that advertise a built in hotspot. Yeah, or have a phone that has a hotspot functionality. And I'm just guessing, but I bet if your phone doesn't have coverage, your car probably doesn't either.