RWD or AWD

i know this has been discussed and my search revealed stuff about the 997, but nothing in the 996 forum. is there a way to identify a C4 or C2? I have used multiple decoders and some decode my vin as AWD, and some decode it as RWD. Thanks in advance for the help!

See if there is an axle coming off the back of the front wheels. The C2 just has the end of the axle and then it is flanged on the back of the wheel carrier.

Open the Frunk. The c4 has a "ledge" and an inflatable spare stored under a removable panel. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...s-in-here.html The C2 has a compact spare https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...re-thread.html

Easiest way to check from the outside of the car is to check the colour of the brake calipers: C2 has black and C4 has silver, although they could of course have been changed or repainted at some time.

Hawk, best way is to take a picture of your open trunk and post it this thread. That way, we can settle this thing right here and now. :-)

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I took the spare out.

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he meant the white sticker that is on the back of the frunk lid.

Doesn't look a thing like my 4S frunk! So my guess is a "2" however look underneath the front for axel shafts running from wheel towards the center of the car. Easy to see!

rwd

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No he didn't. He meant a picture of the frunk just like he posted. The AWD frunk looks totally different from that, which is why he asked for the picture.

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At this point I am 99% sure it's RWD.

Well you can be 100% sure because it is 100% RWD.

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cubs won the series, no need to be so scalding.

Didn't mean to come off that way... sorry about that.

FYI, this is what the frunk looks like in a C4: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post11770534

If you have PASM, turn it off and put it in first gear and slam the gas pedal. Have someone else stand outside and see if the rear wheels spin or you hook quickly. Cheap, effective, and fun.

Hawk, I'm afraid everyone is right. You have a RWD "C2" car, not the AWD C4. I'd contact the seller. Like the picture from VitaminC, the C4 cars have the characteristic "Hump in the Frunk" and lack the spare tire mount. Here's a picture of my Cabriolet which of course is a RWD.

Yours isn't a C4 is it?

VIN DECODED ON HAWK'S CAR...

Ah... I see the ad for the car that's still online. (attached below) They really mislead you Hawk, but you still got a wonderful car. Personally, I would rather have the RWD version, but that's just my preference. What are your next steps? Move on and chalk it up as experience or address it to the dealership?

Yeah, RWD is what I own. Thank you for all the help, you guys are great! Now to see what the dealership has to say tomorrow. To be honest, I am just fine with the RWD (it got almost 26mpg on my drive from CA) but I am just irritated at the misrepresentation.

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Nope! Found that pic on a different thread.

Lol. Just checking.

Good luck with the dealer. FWIW, I think the 2WD is the better option.

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I would look at this as a very good opportunity to make sure the dealership makes you whole on the IMS. They mis-represented the car as being AWD when it was RWD! I don't know the laws in NV, but I have a hard time believing they are not legally obligated to buy the car back if you insist. They committed fraud. All that said, since you like the car, make sure they fix the IMS at their expense.

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i asked them specifically about it before I bought it and they said they had checked and it had been done prior to them getting the car. He said it was quite labor intensive, drop the engine maybe? Anyway, is there a specific way I can check that myself, or should I take it somewhere here local to check it out?

If it was my car I would want to know. Ask the dealer to provide the invoice. You would have to split the engine from the transmission to check if it has been replaced. That's a big labour charge. If you are going there you may as well be prepared to do a bearing replacement.

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If they can't provide you with paperwork proving that it has the IMSB upgrade done, it's safe to assume it has not been done. Which of course, they mis-represented as well. Either get the dealer to give you legit paperwork proving the IMS bearing has been replaced, or he is on the hook for paying to have it done. You have screenshots proving that he sold you the car as a C4 with AWD, and with IMS done. Maybe its just a personal thing with me, but no way in hell should this dealer be let off the hook for a fraudulent sale.

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Here's the deal Hawk, you have to decide if you want to take the hard road or easy road. Part of the bad reputation of dealers is their "it's not our fault" once the deal is done and you've driven off the lot. However, this is a clear case of misrepresentation or false advertisement. They may say it's a simple typo or computer error, but the burden is on them to list and sell the car correctly. However, I'm not sure you want to go down the road of fraud because you have to prove intent, but the dealership should compensate you in some form or another. If I'm not mistaken, it's my understanding that the C4 was more money than the RWD version. Therefore, this is kind of like trying to sell a C4 as a C4S. I just recently looked at what was listed as a "Mustang GT" (which we all know comes with a 305 V8), but once I examined the engine, I noticed it was a V6, not the V8; therefore, definitely a mistake. It's also not completely uncommon for sellers to make a car look like the higher end version. No telling how many times I've seen a 996 Carrera badged up to be a Carrera "S". Porsche didn't make a 996 Carrera S. Only the C4S. But I just noticed another one list this weekend in Atlanta. Here's the listing: (notice the rear logo)

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The most annoying thing about the "S" mod is that they always just tack it on to the Carrera logo which makes the badging off-center. I can't believe people do that to these cars.

not to beat a dead horse but what did your BILL OF SALE say (C2 or C4)? Not arguing that ad is wrong but the piece of paper that you (and dealer) signed/initialed/dated may get the dealer off the hook if it said C2? DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer

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what is that "hump in the frunk"

Cover on top of gas tank. I also hear it is an easy way to access the fuel pump.

Hawk - the only way to know for sure that the IMS was done is to split the engine and the trans... (keep in mind I actually know nothing..... but have been researching this IMS stuff for months) Bertha heads down to Trophy Performance tomorrow to get the IMS done.

So I spoke with the owner of the dealership today. Very nice guy. He said he completely understands my concerns and is fully willing to send a truck to come pick the vehicle up and issue me a full refund. He said that the auto auction sold it to them as a C4 and he forwarded me the paperwork that shows that. But he admits that doesn't let him off the hook for advertising it incorrectly. He has also offered me $1k to put towards replacing the damaged rear wheels or whatever I want. i told him that before we go that route that I would like to have Trophy look it over (at their expense). So tomorrow I will head over to Trophy and have them take a look (I already called and spoke with them about it). depending on what they say/find, I may be looking for another 996. We will see. Thanks again for everyone's help with this. I feel like I am being a bit high maintenance but this is my dream car so want it safe and as advertised.

That's awesome news. Thumbs up to the dealer for being a stand up guy.

ditto

Great turn of events here! I say unless you absolutely love the car, I would take the dealer up on his offer and get your money refunded.

Obviously he loves the car or he wouldn't have just bought it. OP you are taking the right route. Get it all checked out and if it looks good, take the extra money and smile. If not, move on to the next one.

I agree with Slakker! Personally, I think you'd enjoy the manual RWD 996 more than the C4, but that's just my 2 cents worth. Seems like you have a good dealership because most wouldn't have been so accommodating. If it were me, and the car checks out ok, then I'd take the $1000 and put me some nice wheels on the car and take that beautiful wife out to dinner! Hawk... listen to me... treat your lady like the queen and you won't regret it. If you include her with the car, she'll always long to take trips in it. Word up my friend! Cheers!

Best of luck on your decision But there are threads in the turbo sections about owners of turbo cars updating their cars to rear wheel only. Wondering why would they do this? These were not primarily not race cars. Thanks guys

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Hey Gobs, they do that because of the driving characteristics (e.g. oversteer) that can be achieved with RWD Porsches. I wouldn't recommend screwing with the AWD Turbos like that, but if you know what you're doing, it can totally change the dynamics of the car (in a good way).

If you send the car back I have a nice C2 for sale!

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Um. You can love something, then find all the flaws/lies after the fact. - Bent wheels - No C4 - No IMSB replacement Now the importance of any/all of the above is up to the OP.. Which is why I said unless you love it as is, I would look for another.

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Spoke, I just noticed something unique on your car. No, I'm not talking about those aftermarket wheel you don't like, but it appears you not only have Aero Side Skirt (duh! right?), but also the aero front bumper. I'm I right?

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b3: Why would someone want more oversteer? Having driven race cars(although sprint cars on dirt) oversteer is just plain scary!

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Because life on the edge is wild Billy. You should know that! The same people that love crazy oversteer are the same ones that remove traction control and any other car nannies. Cheers!

Yeah it can be fun until it changes to snappy loose! Then your looking to buy a new rear wheel at the minimum! I'll live with the front wheels helping me go in the right direction. Besides I enjoy telling non-Porsche people "it's AWD" just to watch the look of total confusion flush over their face! Besides don't the fancy WSC type cars have AWD?

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Are you f**king nuts. Oversteer is better than cash money. I live for oversteer. Never too much. Tell you what. Pack the entire family in a front wheel drive minivan; wife, parents, grandparents, nieces, aunts and their pets. Drive to a wide open slab of asphalt. Cinch your seat belt. Rotate the steering wheel all the way to one stop or the other. Shift into reverse. Floor it. Don't lift. Keep the wheel on the stop. Don't lift at all. Stay on it for 5 minutes. Now ask your family if that was fun. I've done it so I know they will all love it, even your Aunt with the boob job. That is a bit like oversteer. Now go oversteer and don't stop.

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Yes, it matches the side skirts.

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Well, that's a BIG + for selling the car because the Aero front bumper by itself is crazy expensive... $1500 - $2000 unpainted.

ditto: I understand, however, most of us don't drive around only in wide open asphalt areas. In reality there are normally unforgiving things near the road or track that will suddenly stop someone who has over-estimated their driving ability as well as the adhesion of their tires/car. Snappy loose is real and very unpleasant! Trust me!

My C2 is far from snappy loose. Gun it entering a highway ramp and the back end will slide out but nothing that one hand on the wheel can't calmly correct. I know what snappy loose is. Go past the limit on my MR2 and when it starts to slide its both hands and full attention. Anyway, I will put up a stiff fight about RWD 996's being too loose, even if they began as AWD.

Ok! I wish you many good times!

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I guess I'll raise my price then!

There is a reason all of the GT3, Cup cars and SP996s are rear wheel drive. They just flat out handle better and are more predictable at speed. The reason the turbo is a 4x4 (snicker) is because it belongs on a drag strip or at a stop light next to a corvette. The AWD allows it lay down huge amounts of power to hit those insane sub 3s times. Two different features for two different purposes. The 911 used to be known as the "Dr. Killer" because of the snap oversteer. But Porsche corrected that and made them much more predictable. A stock setup, even on a C2, has inherent understeer that you have dial out if you want to turn faster. The C4 is like training wheels, but in a good. With C4 and PSM (traction control), you don't have to have professional training to push the limit a little and have fun. The car will help you along. Now I would also argue that the new GT3, Viper, C7 Vette etc have taken this to a point of ridiculousness where novice drivers can lay down track times that previously required a seasoned professional. In order to accomplish this, the car puts many levels of computer assist between you and the road. To me, the entire experience becomes very bland. But I think I digressed again. Dammit.

Slak: I just read the article from PCA or wherever concerning the way the new Porsche "nanny" systems work for someone racing cones with little to no experience. Made me throw up in my mouth a little! The snappy loose condition was not necessary directed towards C2's, just cars in general. Heck I owned a 1965 Sunbeam Tiger in my past that should have had the D.K. title as well. All that V-8 weight in the front firmly planted the front tires under any turning conditions! You never knew when you would be looking in the direction you just came from. BTW KCA and the turbo guys are not going to be happy with your comments above!

Oversteer, very good. You Tube