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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHReplacement Engine Suggestions?
Leading reported evidence
Replace quad and triple row bearings
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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0
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0
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1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The quad and triple row bearings have been replaced with the classic dual row, single row pro, RND Roller bearing (all maintenance items) and The Solution (permanent plain bearing).
Leading evidence: 'Replace quad and triple row bearings' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check shaft' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Quad row was replaced with triple row with ceramic hybrid bearings.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The quad and triple row bearings have been replaced with the classic dual row, single row pro, RND Roller bearing (all maintenance items) and The Solution (permanent plain bearing).
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Suggestion
Their idea was that the additional bearings didn't make contact with the IMS until the front bearing failed, which would then allow for the engine to keep on running, spreading debris throughout.
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Suggestion
General cost ranges from about 5k (used motor doing the swap yourself) to about 25k (getting a professionally build motor from Jake that should last many years).
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Greetings all,
You may remember that I had some camshaft deviation issues a while back, and all of that's been solved because I'm in need of a new engine! :/ I can't really discuss the details, but due to some possible neglect by an independent, the motor may be toast.
So, I had a few general questions because I've never really had this happen before, and I'm not sure what to do.
1) What's the general ballpark cost on getting another 3.4L or 3.6L motor? Does Porsche even offer NOS engines for the 996? Are rebuilt/re-manufactured ones a good option?
2) What does a used motor typically run, and how can you trust that they'll be a hearty motor that will last? Where would one find one?
3) Is it worth considering putting in a 997S motor of a later year (say, 2008) to avoid the IMS issues altogether? Will it even fit in the 996 C2?
4) Would a 996 Turbo motor fit into a narrow body car if that was the only one I could find?
I really appreciate the help.
Warm regards,
Matt
Porsche has short blocks only
RND has long blocks only.
Used engines are a crap shoot.
Rebuild yourself is possible, but requires special tools.
You could go with larger displacement, 3.4 can go 3.8!
I wouldn’t attempt a M97 due to the electronics.
Renegade Hybrids makes LS swap adapters, but it’s not a simple swap.
996 Turbo would also be an electronics nightmare.
The best place to go to answer all of your questions is Charles Dundon at Dundon Motorsports...he is a genius when it comes to these options and what needs to be done. He put a 997.1 S engine in my 996 mk1 (2000). What year is your 996....here are some things to consider:
If you have a Mk2 ---I think all electronics and everything from 997.1 is compatible...997.2 is not
If you have a Mk1 --- my situation, would require major electronics and other changes for Mk2, 997.1 and 997.2 stuff and is costly (I know this first hand)
I would also reach out to Oleg at Norspec Dismantlers (here in seattle) since he has a bunch of good engines or he can source one for you if you can wait.
https://norspecdismantling.com/
both Charles and Oleg guys I trust and frankly the best in the business plus super nice guys. Reach out to them to help with options.
You can search this forum. There are many similar threads. Some of them are recent. There are also threads from individuals who have gone down the different paths. The final cost will be dependent on which path you take and how much you do yourself. General cost ranges from about 5k (used motor doing the swap yourself) to about 25k (getting a professionally build motor from Jake that should last many years).
Another option, if you don't want to deal with the time or effort it will take, is to sell your car as a roller and buy another.
For what it's worth:
Used engine is an unknown. Might be good. Might not. Roll dice scenario. Cheap.
Rebuild by one of many available rebuilders. Make sure to understand what each means when they say "rebuild". Some questionable. Some good. Some great. Price varies. Down side time to complete.
RND rebuilt engines. Availability/time is better although there have been some say they had to wait. Many of the weak points are addressed. Price on high side but not unreasonable for product. Core charge so it depends on how blown up your current engine may be.
Porsche short block. Price has come way down. Your current cylinder heads will need to be reworked
properly
before installation. Will come with bigger 997 type bearing with lower failure rate but many of the 996 weak points still remain.
Unpaid non-policital opinion time. If it was me, I would go the RND option. If I didn't mind the wait the Flat6 option is definitely the best. Pricey but you pay for what you get...THE BEST.
I'm on engine number 3. I did a rebuild myself from my original cases, heads and a used crank and carrier (found on ebay) for engine 2 only to have a cylinder d-chunk after about 1K miles. Very disappointing, but the experience was good and the only real cost was around $2500 for the parts, new bearings and bolts. The tools are rentable. Engine number 3 was found on ebay as a very well cared for short block with an LN bearing and new RMS. The PO had just had a swap done: his shop put an early 997 in his 2002. I believe the short block he sold me for under $5k is pretty solid. I've installed it and I'm back having fun! Only issue so far was his AOS was bad so I had to drop the motor one more time to swap it out. (I have single handedly dropped my motor 7 times for RMS, IMS and the engine changes. Its the simplest part of the process if you have access to a lift.)
I considered an LS swap using the Renegade parts, but who really wants a GM powered Porsche? I'm convinced it would be unbreakable, but its not for me.
If you love your car and have the resources, go see Jake
I may be biased but maybe you should consider something super crazy and shoe horn a turbo into your car and make it your own sleeper. You can get a turbo engine for about $13K and they are bullet proof and no IMS issues.
@ 808Bill
I don't really have a budget, more just trying to get a ballpark. We'll have to see what any possible settlement may be, and then decide which route to go from there. As for what's actually wrong, I'll PM ya.
@ Triple Black
Who would you recommend in Van? It'd be a heck of a lot easier than sending it down to the States.
@ Lowpue
I considered that as well! Just have to really pick a direction and go with it. I have a 2001 C2, I forgot to answer before.
Too bad on having a Mk1....its a lot more work to make a MkII engine work in a MkI (wiring and host of other things)….my 997 3.8 in my 996 taught me that.
When Charles @ LN engineering was 1st developing his IMSB upgrades they designed a triple row bearing that they could install if you sent your dual row IMSB to LN. They also check the shaft for runout & pin the drive gears. That was the best "solution" at the time so that's what I did.
^^This^^ I've never seen or heard of a "triple row" bearing (in almost 4 years of reading/researching). Hopefully it holds up well. FWIW I went for The Solution when I did mine (it previously had a LN "classic dual row" installed.
Here's a history lesson for those interested:
The original quad-row IMS Upgrade. Used conventional bearings.
Quad row was replaced with triple row with ceramic hybrid bearings.
^^ Nah^^... you have to read between the lines! The quad and triple row bearings have been replaced with the classic dual row, single row pro, RND Roller bearing (all maintenance items) and The Solution (permanent plain bearing).
Ahhhh... If it is, I never found any info. on it (I looked fairly exhaustively before settling on "The Solution"). I think there's a link to the Spanish on which it was being discussed.
I had a good laugh looking at that thread again. I remember it well. They had never actually run it or installed it. Notice there is no cutout on the face of the flange for the timing teeth on the flywheel, which pass through the center of the flange. That's why all IMS flanges have dog ears, unlike theirs. They did come back with a redesign (I have pictures saved for posterity), but the whole premise was poor from the get go. Their idea was that the additional bearings didn't make contact with the IMS until the front bearing failed, which would then allow for the engine to keep on running, spreading debris throughout. That was their concept anyways. Like these guys, there were and are many imitators that have since brought to market various products at every price point and quality level.
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