65 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHmisfires on 3, 4 & 5
Reported or suspected cause
3 spark plugs and the 3 coils
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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0
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0
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Reported cause
Very strange that all of a sudden the problem is 3 spark plugs and the 3 coils.
Leading evidence: '3 spark plugs and the 3 coils' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '3 spark plugs and the 3 coils' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check asap' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
He said there's some kind of a jig that is used now that makes it all but impossible.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
The mechanic test drove the car and the CEL returned, although the misfires are gone.
New guy here again...bought my '03 2 weeks ago. Drove it home 900 miles without any problems. Three days later it was in the shop to get the IMSB/RMS/clutch trifecta done. Car was driven home from the shop (25 miles) last Friday.
Not driven again until yesterday...7 miles from home CEL ("drive to workshop") came on. Turned around and took the car home. Took it back to the shop this morning - error codes are misfires on 3, 4, 5. Mechanic's initial guesses at the cause are a) vacuum leak, b) bad plug(s), c) bad coil(s). He started the car at the shop and thought it initially sounded a little rough, although it smoothed out after a few seconds. First thing he's gonna do is smoke test it.
So, just a coincidence that this happened soon after getting the IMSB replaced? He's not a noobie at doing them; says he's done 50 or so. If the engine is getting moved around a bit, how hard would it be to break some plastic connector that would result in a vacuum leak?
When I hear "misfires", my immediate reaction is malfunctioning coil packs and/or plugs, but the entire bank#2? Did the shop drop the engine for the IMS and clutch replacement or did they removed any of the plugs for cylinder examinations? Always a chance something got damaged but I would check the lines for the coil packs. Check one step at a time.
How was the weather while sitting? Rainy? How was the weather when the codes popped up? Rainy? Old cracked coils don't like moisture. It is interesting that the CEL didn't show up immediately after the work as you would expect if something went wrong during the work. I would think something would have triggered on the 25 miles home.
Since it's bank 2 only, first thing is to read out the "Cam deviation" on both banks. The number should be around 0 degree +/- 6 degrees. It's a bit suspicious after IMSB replacement.
It's been a little damp/cool the last few days, but not rainy. Roads were dry when the CEL appeared.
FWIW - the weather was beautiful the entire 900 mile trip home. No moisture.
Both banks - Yes... When it comes to messing something up with these engines, nothing is "impossible" (I don't care what kind of "Jig" you're using) - especially when you've done so many that you start to take things for granted... All this being said, I'd still opt fpr a vacuum leak...
+1
My invoice for imsb installation includes cam deviation numbers. Thought that was a given?
Edit: I think you're talking about after install. I would ask them to give you those numbers too.
When my coils had 54k three were cracked of those two were ginormous cracks. However, I understand all the IMSB install questions are valid concerns, as well.
Gotcha. I know that there are lots of plastic lines and little rubber elbows that age and become brittle. Just wasn't sure if there were any specific lines or areas where the majority of problems are found.
Mike
He smoked the car and did not find any vacuum leaks. Checked the timing, and it's dead on.
Pulled 1 plug & coil - the plug is the wrong type (said it's for a BMW), and the coil is cracked. So, new plugs and coils going in tomorrow.
I hope that's your problem but be prepared it might not be the problem though.
I had misfires and checked the coils. Mine were worse than yours. Wasnt the problem. :-/
Good place to start troubleshooting though.
What, you mean our Porsches are NOT 5 cylinder cars? haha
Seriously, thank you gentlemen. Definitely rushed that remark before letting the brain kick in, but at least I was right about the misfires. BMW coil packs? Wow!
He does a lot of work on BMWs also. I'm sure he just meant they are plugs he usually finds in those engines. IIRC, he mentioned they are used in the 5 series.
Probably more important what goes in?
Maybe they would have been fine, but the NGK BKR6EKUB Warehouse 33 suggested didn't look like the 4 prong BOSCH that I removed. Went to my dealership, for peace of mind, purchased oem BOSCH plugs. The free Caribou coffee, breakfast bars, mints and PCA discount softened the $$ hit.😎
Not sure there's much to be gained from this. If you wanted to compare application charts and then heat range, gap, extension of the electrode, and a few other characteristics, that's fine. There may be plugs that are compatible with both cars. It wouldn't be the only time this has ever happened.
If anything, it might be good to know how long these illegal immigrant plugs have been in the engine. Assess the risk of possible damage; as a result.
Best of luck. Keep your stick on the ice.
To check if the mechanic is making up things or not. Very strange that all of a sudden the problem is 3 spark plugs and the 3 coils. Coils and plugs fail one at a time not all at once. What is more likely that the mechanic found a problem that related to his work and then blamed the plugs and coils that had nothing to do with them.
Well, not so great this morning. The mechanic test drove the car and the CEL returned, although the misfires are gone.
New code is
P0410 (Secondary air injection system), so he's going to check that valve later today. Also said he found a mouse nest which may be a factor.
I get a P0410 error all the time. Erase and move on. It has nothing to do with how the engine is running. Did I mention I really really hate the secondary air injection system? Stupid piece of emissions equipment! All ROW P-cars ECU/DME programming ignores any codes thrown by that stuff. If I ever have the inclination, I'm going to send my ECU to ECU doctors for a re-programming to ROW.
I've instructed him to spend no more than 1 hour troubleshooting. I've bought a scanner so I can monitor the problem if it persists.
Doesn't seem to be a problem worth spending hundreds of dollars diagnosing.
The SAI valve is not opening at all. Either a bad valve, or the switch is not functioning due to mouse activity (he said he sees mice nests in this location quite often, and they like to chew wires).
He's gonna remove the alternator and correct the situation on Monday.
Since you're in that deep, check to see your oil fill tube isn't cracked. Easy replacement with alternator out.
And if this is still original, extra credit for not breaking it while hes in there.😎
