My Car Is Sick!

Not like, "Dude, that thing is SICK, man!". More like, "I'm sorry to inform you but your car is sick". The back story: I bought this car from my buddy, Scott last April. Scott is a big VW guy. He has a killer '67 convertible bug with a 350HP turbo motor in it. He also has a beautiful double cab he just finished restoring. So he knows a bit about cars, especially German ones. Anyway, when Scott got it he changed all the fluids, put on new tires, checked everything over. He had it about a year but needed garage space and has too many cars., etc so decided to sell. I had recently driven my uncle's RUF RGT so I was was stricken with the Porsche bug and bought the car. (video seen here: You Tube ) He told me he had purchased it from the original owner and that the engine was replaced under warranty around 40K miles. All the mods were done by a pro shop in Vegas. The did the IMS, new clutch and flywheel at that time. He did not have any documentation on the car. After getting it I kept asking if he could contact the PO to see if he could get any docs on it but he is very busy and never got the chance too. I called the dealer (only one in Vegas) and gave them the VIN but they had no record of the car even though the car was purchased new from them. I ran a carfax and it showed no accidents, no repairs, everything clean other than a different original owner. It was on a lease for a year and a half and the guy put 10K miles on it. Then it went to the 2nd owner who had it for 14 years and put about 50K miles on it. I was able to get a hold of the 2nd owner and he confirmed that the engine was done by the dealer and he also gave me the info on the shop that did the mods. The other shop could only find records of a battery replacement and new pedals but nothing on the Brembo's, wheels, shifter, exhaust, etc. The car runs great with no issues. No vibrations or shimmy, smooth powerful engine, handles and stops amazingly. The only know issues are the airbag light which is the seatbelt deal and the aftermarket stereo doesn't work because we took out the 100+ pounds of amps in the front and a huge subwoofer. I never listen to the stereo anyway, preferring to listen to the wonderful exhaust note. Anyway, thinking everything was fine with the car, I started to talk with Hawk about him buying it. We agreed on a price and told him we'll have Trophy look it over and fix the seat belt. I tow it over to Vegas on my trailer and drop it off at Trophy and then go take care of some business I had in town. Then I get the bad news. Rear main is leaking, water pump is seaping and could go out any time, p/s fluid low (no biggy, just ad some), two of my rims are bent (no idea as they look fine and no vibration but will put my dial indicator on them tomorrow), due for service, seatbelt and stereo. Also in speaking to Trophy, we are uncertain about the IMS. Todd, the owner used to work at the dealer for years and said they do not do IMS replacements. Needless to say, the sale was called off. I certainly would not want to sell the car in this condition. So now I have a lot of uncertains. Was the IMS done or not? Was the engine actually replaced under warranty (What was the original warranty period on these cars?) and if so, what year engine? If it was done when the 2nd owner had it then it would be a 2001 or newer motor and have a single row bearing? Who did all the other mods? Now for the advice part. What to do? I was a bit ambivalent about selling it as I like it and it has some nice mods. Definitely need to get the water pump done. I will start searching for how involved that process is and would like to do it myself. I'll check the wheels and see about having them straightened. I'll do the service and seatbelt thing as those are minor. So then what to do about the rear main and IMS? Try to sell the car and disclose those issues then look for the coupe I want? Or say "screw it" and make up my mind to keep the car and make it what I want. If I keep it I would want to go through the engine and do the IMS and what ever else is needed to make the engine "bulletproof" (not sure what that would entail). I would then do all the "racey" type mods that I want, rear wing, different wheels, maybe racing seats, Momo steering wheel, etc. My thinking is this: if everything were good it is a $20K car at best. As it is now, it's maybe a $15K car. If I sold it and found a $15K coupe it would have more miles (mine has 66K) and none of the mods mine has and more than likely, some of the same service work that mine needs now. So if I ask myself, "Self, would you buy this car knowing what it needs for $15K"? Heck ya, I would! And if I keep telling myself that it is only a $15K car then I won't mind changing the looks and worry about messing it up. I mean, what kind of car can you get for $15K these days, a used Corolla? So I'm thinking I'm going to stick it in the garage, yank the motor and start my quest to make a road beast bullet proof engine that I can thrash on and not worry about. The question is, beside IMS and other maintenance items, what should be done to it?

First thing I'd do is check the serial number on the engine. That will tell you if the car has a replacement crate engine. Get the water pump replaced and the service up to date then sell or drive. A small RMS leak doesn't make for a sick 911.

Yeah, it sounds like it's in pretty good shape overall, actually. Change out the waterpump, and drive it until the the small RMS leak turns into a less small RMS leak and don't worry too much about it. RMS is not difficult or expensive to do if the transmission is separated for clutch/IMS.

Spork, it was nice meeting you and look forward to your build if that's what you end up doing. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress!

And what model year is the car, and what is the build date? My opinion is just get the car running and drive it. It will always be a $15k car no matter how many mods you do to it. Since this sounds like your first Porsche, give yourself more seat time before you start considering how to re-engineer what Porsche has been doing pretty well since 1948. First document the engine replacement and from the serial number determine what generation IMS it has. If the bearing was replaced but you cannot document it, then consider it has not been done. And, worse, if you don't know who did the replacement, then consider it was done improperly and get it redone correctly now. If you are going to replace the bearing, get the whole nine yards version...the Jake Raby "never needs to be changed again" version. Once again...consider spending more time behind the wheel and less time tearing the car apart.

Spoke, I'm looking at this another way my friend. I've been down this road before too and my mind believes YOUR heart is really for a coupe and if that's true, nothing else will satisfy. I'd recommend not throwing any more money at this Cabriolet with the exception of what's necessary (i.e. water pump). Here's my advice... 1. Repair the water pump issue 2. Replace the wheels with cheap used OEM Turbo Twists or decent aftermarket Porsche type wheels and mount the current tires on them. You can find complete OEM sets all day long on eBay and Craigslist for under $700 3. Don't worry about the RMS issue unless it's producing a serious leak. 4. First try resetting the airbag light using a proper diagnostic tool. If the light comes back on, then service the seat belt problem. My airbag light came on and it was just because I unplugged the seat. I reset the light, and it's never come back on. 5. Don't worry about the stereo system. If it works, then leave it alone. 6. Clean the car from top to bottom, inside and out. 7. Get on the hunt for a nice 996 coupe like Scott Kinnebrew. There are many nice examples that pop up for under $20,000. The dealerships are probably going to offer you about between $12,000 - $15,000 on trade in. You may be able to squeeze more given the aero front bumper and side skirts, but as John Ireland stated, it's not what you put in it, it's what you can get out of it. And no matter how many mods you do, it's still a $15K car. Now, if you sell it on ebay, you may get a little closer to $20K, but unfortunately, the Cabs don't do as well as the Coupes especially the base 996 Carreras. All the best my friend!!!

Wheels replacement for you Spoke... http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-OEM-...9YQnnA&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...pX9BHW&vxp=mtr

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OK, after tossing and turning all night thinking about this car I realized that it is in pretty good shape overall. So the RMS may be leaking but there are no oil spots on the floor of my garage so how bad could the leak be? So the shop that did the PPI was very thorough and found a leak but "a leak" can be a gushing, finger in the dyke kind of leak but could also be a little bit of visible oil in the RMS area. Same with the water pump. I did ask them how bad it was, if it was just seeping a bit or was water pouring out. They said it was a small seepage but it could go out any time. So now I'm having some doubts about their findings. Actually no, I believe everything they said about it but I think they may have been overstating the urgency of everything, perhaps trying to drum up a little business? I certainly would not accuse them of dishonesty but sometimes a shop will suggest things be replaced immediately when not really necessary. This is not uncommon in many industries (eg: your furnace isn't coming on, Repair guy comes out and finds the pilot light out but says you should replace this old one with a brand new efficient one, all the ducts should be replaced, new rigisters, etc). They had a Ferrari and several new high end Porsches their so they are probably used to dealing with customers that tell them to fix everything regardless of cost. I'm sure we would all like to have an 18 year old car that is perfectly restored to like new condition but let's face it, this is a sub $20K car. A car that I use basically for one thing which is the very occasional blast on some back roads for fun then it goes back in the garage. They also quoted about $4K to fix everything but they are known to have very high prices for work (I'm sure it is top quality though) and I'm sure I could find other shops a bit less or do it all myself for much less. Anyway, plenty to think about so the car will sit in the garage now until after the first of the year as I don't have time to mess with it now.

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It's a 1999 and I think the build date is Sept of '98. It's still sitting on the trailer in my yard so I'll look later. I think I need to take your advice and get some more seat time in the car. I've put less than 500 miles on the car since I got it last April and that was in 4 or 5 drives so never spent a whole lot of time in it.

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Thanks B3, good advice. Yes, I think I'd prefer a coupe mainly for the looks but since I bought this car last April it's been high 90's low 100's here all summer and only put the top down a couple times because I'm cranking the a/c. Now that the weather has cooled down I might actually enjoy driving it topless. I have to get some seat time as recommended by Johnireland. I'm also relocating to northern NV in the spring and the weather is much cooler up there. I'll be right by Lake Tahoe and the Sierra mountains including Yosemite so there are some incredible roads at high elevations which are perfect for convertibles. I have many options but I think right now I'm going to go with option D: non of the above. Just park it for now and give me time to think about what I want to do. Thanks for the wheel links. Both of those look great and I think I'd really like them in black.

The one issue that will be catastrophic (if/when it craps out) is the water pump so IMHO, fix that first. Then full disclosure to future buyers about all other PPI findings and price accordingly. Best of luck. P.S. You already know CABs rule in SoCal, heck I just drove with the top down yesterday

Do you know when by date the motor was replaced? If it was late 2006 or later then it should have the larger single row bearing which requires the motor to be taken apart to changed. Knowing the date the motor was replaced would do a lot in telling you if the IMSB could have been replaced or not, but only dropping the transmission will give you the real answer. As JI said though, if you don't have hard details then it should be considered as not done. Don't wait on the water pump as that one is a very real threat to your motor. It could be simply bad seals or it could be the beginning of the end. Given that a failed water pump can effectively destroy your motor, it's not worth ignoring. The rest can probably just be watched, but they are valid things to bring up in a PPI. I think they all fall under negotiation fodder rather than deal killer if it was otherwise a car I liked, but that's me. I wouldn't say you have a "sick" car. I'd say you have a normal 15+ year old car (e.g. something is broken and there are things from it's past that you don't know). If you want to sell it and move on, b3 gave the perfect answer.

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Hmmmm This is a double-edge sword. You have an early build date(good thing vis-a-vis the IMS) but you have a replacement engine(we think). You need to get the SN off that engine and see what you've got. Early build engines are preferred as they have the best IMS, and generally lower failure rates than later build cars. $15k for that car is close to market price. It's not a steal, and it's not a ripoff. I would say the things that need service are pretty common items, and not an indication of neglect. Things just age. The RMS small leak is indication that the car is like all the others. My advice to anyone shopping 996; Wait for what you REALLY want. If you want a coupe, find a coupe. If you want silver there's a billion to choose from. If you want draped leather, get that, or as close as you can. It sounds like no matter what, you're going to pull the engine and mess with it. If that's the case, it doesn't really matter what you get, as you will manage the engine service yourself, so - meh. Find the car you want with the options you want.

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You too Hawk. I am so glad we got the inspection done as I would have hated to sell you the car and then find a bunch of issues (although, now I'm thinking they are not as drastic as I first thought). Good luck on your hunt for a car. I still like that red one even though it's quite a bit more $. Now that I think about it, you could fix everything on mine and still be in it for less than that car! Mine will sit until I decide what direction to go in. I may bring it to that other shop to see if they remember doing any other work to it and have them look it over as well. I have to run back over to Vegas next week to look at more properties for my work. Maybe we can grab lunch.

Spork: CHANGE THE WATER PUMP! If it is seeping at all. It will fail and could throw broken bits of impeller throughout your cooling system possibly compromising cylinder head cooling with expensive results. Or if it has a metal impeller it could damage the cavity behind the pump which is machined into the engine block! Read..."VERY EXPENSIVE"!

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Just watched a YouTube video on water pump replacement. Looks pretty easy. Note: Wow, once you pull that monster sized airbox off you can actually see the engine! Does anyone run aftermarket CAI's on these cars? I'll be checking the belt and idler pullies while I have it apart. Where is the best place to get a replacement water pump?

^^^Yep, once you remove the car, you can see all sides of the engine pretty clearly. Or is it the other way around? I'm confused. bwahahahahaha

If you are able to "stick it in the garage, yank the motor" and perform the necessary maintenance, then that's the route you should take. For most people it's the cost of the labor that really makes these jobs very pricey and unpleasant. If you are able to do the labor yourself and the investment is time/parts then I think you should update what needs to be fixed and enjoy the car. Document everything you do and when it comes time to sell it will be a much easier sale.

Lots of options on CAI. Many run them. Many say don't run them for some valid reasons. The stock system is a true CAI because of the snorkel to the engine lid louvers. Many say leave it, as add-on "speed" equipment have very small if any improvements in performance. In fact, many say certain "improvements" will actually reduce performance on these cars. I have read many posts about the MAF sensor sensitivity to crud which can be deposited by an overly oiled after-market filter. There is the "orange cap" mod which allegedly improves engine air intake sound(not sure why that would be important) that you can search out.

First ID motor. Other then the water pump, IMSB would be my concern. Would dropping the oil pan and inspecting or having an oil analysis give you indication of bearing condition? I know nothing and I'm trying to learn everything at light speed before my purchase of a 99 996.

All of the stuff you list as "sick" is stuff that is just a fact of life for a 17-year-old 996. The RMS may leak forever, or it might need the updated seal. Either way, it's not a crisis. If the IMS was not done, you're sitting on (a) an updated engine, or (b) an original '99 engine with the stout bearing. Neither seems like a crisis right now. Water pump: change it. Do this now. Water does not need to be "pouring out" for this to be an issue. Any leakage around the pump shaft means the bearing is compromised; once that happens, the impeller may begin to contact the block, sending bits of impeller vane throughout your cooling system, and a $200 PM item becomes a much more serious and expensive problem. Take a deep breath, walk away from the car for two days, and do some more reading here on RL. I don't think your car sounds "sick" at all - it just needs to have some deferred maintenance items addressed.

^^^^^this is correct. search for threads started by cuda or ahsai's blown engine thread for a sick car. Yours has a cold.

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It is easy if EVERYTHING goes perfectly, but often times with 15+ year old cars things break, rust, and seize. It's extremely tight around the water pump and requires some patience - I've been working on replacing mine for the better part of a week, just making mistakes and encountering unforseen blockers. Got my pump off eBay, it's oem Pierburg for $200. Don't buy metal impeller pump.

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The car has lived in Vegas all its life until I got it and I'm in southern CA so hopefully there will be no corrosion. It is not a daily driver so I can take my time and not be in a rush to get it done. Thanks for the info on the pump.

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Yesterday I thought the doctor said, "You have a cancer". Now I think he said, "You have a canker(sore)". Thanks to everyone here for talking me off the ledge. On the way back from Vegas the thought flashed through my mind to cut the straps, let the car roll off the trailer and collect the insurance money! So I guess the patient is not terminal and just requires a little TLC. I'll do the water pump right away as well as any service work required. I'll get the engine serial number this morning and look up the date on it. Then I can decide what if anything I'll do about IMS and whether I'll keep the car or sell it to replace with a coupe. It will sit now until after the first of the year and in the mean time I'll be scouring the internet for ideas and advice on what to do. Thanks again for all the thoughts.

OK, here is the engine serial number. M96/0166X17068 From what I can find, 66X indicates it is a 1999 engine. So, I figure it is the original engine because if it were replaced it would have been with a newer engine? And this is probably good because it would have the good bearing and it has gone 66K miles without an issue. I will pull the oil filter off and examine it though along with converting to a spin on filter and magnetic plug. Then have to decide how to proceed from here. IMS replacement or not? That will be a down the road decision depending on whether I'm keeping the car or not.

If you decide NOT to DIY your WP, then I highly recommend Tom's Foreign Auto in Temecula (I have been a happy customer for years now). Might also get a break in price if you decide to do the IMSB at the same time (along with a new reservoir, t-stat, lines/hoses/fittings, serp belt).

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Cool! Thanks for the info. Good to know there is a good local shop. I think I'll give them a call or maybe drive over and get a quote. The Vegas shop quoted $1,100 to replace the water pump. It would be interesting to know what Tom's would quote. Are you in the area?

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I am 996% sure his price will be much, much less. Not sure if Tom will remember me but tell him Romeo (bald, Asian guy) referred you to him (silver, 02 996 cab, tip who had Magnaflow cats installed) P.S. Your engine, based on serial #, is original. If it was a Porsche reman, serial # will have "AT" (Austauschmotor)

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Run away! It's maybe an hour job. Add some shop fees for recycle, fluid and a pump, that's a ton of money. You have the orig engine with the double row bearing. Like you said, pull the filter, inspect closely. Drain the warm oil through a white wife-beater or other tee shirt and look for metal or plastic bits. Repl the stock filter with the LN full flow, and march on. Minimize the drama.

This kind of paranoia is exactly why the 996 is so affordable.

Airbag lights go on if the battery is missing or flat for a while. You mention a battery change. Might only need a Durametric code removal. From someone with a replacement engine, that engine is not a replacement. If the rims don't cause vibrations and don't have cracks you can use them. Low P/S fluid can be from track use. The pump spins fast for a long time on a track. Your problems are easily surmountable, but as mentioned, fix that water pump before it bites you.

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It could still not be the original engine, but it's not a factory warranty swap as that would have AT in the serial number. You still can't know what bearing you have (e.g. factory or replacement) without pulling the trans, but that motor should have some version of a full dual row which is a good thing. I wouldn't stress too much over the bearing until you need to drop the transmission for something else if it were me and mine.

Just got a quote from Tom's Foreign Auto. Tom seamed very knowledgeable and was very friendly taking time to speak to me. Felt very comfortable with him. $731 for pump, Porsche coolant, distilled water (mixes with coolant) and 3.4 hours labor at just under $100/hr. So I could save a little under $400 if I do it myself. I'll see how busy I am after the first of the year. He said the same about the rear main, if it is just a small minor leak then leave it alone. On the IMS, I should pull the filter and check it as well as the oil. If we find any particles then we should do the IMS. If not then leave it but re-check often. I figure I'll check the filter every one to two thousand miles. A filter is only around $15 so cheap insurance. Feeling much better about it now.

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If you find any larger than usual ferrous particles than you are not a good candidate for IMS replacement. Jake Raby or other more knowledgable M96 gurus can chime in but my understanding is that in order to be a candidate for IMS you should not have any signs of bearing shearing showing up in your filter as your oil is already contaminated and the IMS isn't going to prevent that metallic debris, which is currently in your system, from doing further damage.

Hey Spoke, You could always buy the parts yourself and have Tom install them. That may save you a little frustration. Here's the deal... Porsche in Atlanta is offering 25% off parts AND they sent me a promo code to get free shipping. If you want it, I'll send it to you buddy. The deal is ONLY Dec 15 and 16. That's today and tomorrow!!! PM me.

Just ordered a water pump and gasket from Porsche of Atlanta. $247.33 for pump and $11.97 for gasket and free shipping. Pretty good deal so anyone needing parts should check them out. Thanks B3Freak for the lead.

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You're welcome my friend! Also, if you plan to replace the pump yourself, make sure you use only Porsche coolant or an approved equivalent... and mixed appropriately with distilled water. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Spork!

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+996. and burp/purge the system properly P.S. Don't forget the t-stat, tank/cap and serp belt

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Thanks B3. Yes, I'll be using Porsche coolant and mix with distilled. That is what Tom Foreign Auto said to use. Don't know if I have to get Porsche coolant from dealer only?

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The video I watched showed to burp the system. Will be checking the belt and idler pulley when doing the job. I wondered about changing the thermostat but it looks like the housing is separate from the water pump?

Another gentle reminder that I'd like to give - you mentioned that the car just sits in the garage several times in this thread, with only a few outings for spirited driving a year. If there has ever been a car that was meant to be driven, this is it. Letting them sit for long periods of time tends to cause other problems to raise their heads. The more time you spend behind the wheel of these cars, the more they reward you. My philosophy is to drive it hard, and drive it often, and I'm sure that many others here would back me up on that.

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can you post a link to video? Stat should be replaced with the WP, they are not very expensive.

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You Tube

Definitely do the thermostat at the same time, and replace it with a low-temp one. Replace the belt even if it looks good - at least you'll know what you have. It's cheap insurance.

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This is now my intention as I have changed my outlook on the car. Before I felt the car was too nice and wanted to preserve it as such with the possibility of selling it. Now that I know there are a few issues and that it is perhaps not worth as much as I thought it was I intend to keep it, fixing all the issues and then driving the wheels off it! Now I don't care about racking up the miles on it or getting it dirty or even driving it in the rain (the horror!) In fact, I need to do some work in my garage tomorrow and it is supposed to rain but I going to leave it parked outside anyway. Hopefully, it won't melt.

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A little water won't hurt it...

Forget about burping the cooling system, evacuation is the only way to go on the m/96 engine. I have seen way to many instances of people screwing around trying to get the trapped air out of the cooling system and end up overheating their engine.With a vacuum fill / evacuation system such as this inexpensive one http://www.ebay.com/itm/371744270953?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT there will be no trapped air in the system and will be completely filled from the get-go.

Water pump came in today. Awesome service from Porsche of Atlanta! Wasn't expecting it so soon.

....unless your front drains are clogged!

yay! Spork, glad you got it so quickly. Porsche in Atlanta are really competitive with prices and deliver fast. And contrary to the "stealership" mentality, they've been really nice to help me at no charge when I was having a problem with my car.

UR back! Or is this just a "mouse" break?

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hahahaha.... Yea, first day back and now I'm *recovering* if you know what I mean. I've never .... I mean NEVER in my life seen so many people stuffed in one place. Disney is ruling the world my friend... when you drive into Orlando, you're driving into "Disney's world" not Disney World if you get my expression. My mom's family is from Miami and can remember before Walt Disney came to Florida. Nothing but farm land in Orlando. My girls still love that place and so I guess that makes me a captive audience! ha!

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Very happy with them so far. On a side note, I'm still a little suspect of the findings from the PPI. They told me the water pump was leaking badly and should be replaced immediately. Here are a couple photos I took from above and I don't see any indication of leakage. I looked from underneath as well and there is no coolant anywhere. I will remove the airbox and take a closer look when I get back from my Christmas traveling. I'll be performing full maintenance on the car as well and the manual calls for belt replacement at 60K miles so I need to check/replace as required anyway. Even if the pump isn't leaking I may replace it anyway just as a PM measure as I have the new pump now and it doesn't look that difficult to do. PS: The water shown in the photos is from the car sitting outside in a torrential downpour that we had here in SoCal the other day.

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Yikes! That's more than a "little rain"! Do Porsche's float like old Bugs did? I forced myself to leave the car outside in the rain overnight and woke up to this! I'd say "frost on the pumpkin" but the orange light were replaced!