Engine starts (fires) but won't run...

Strange sequence of events: Car ran fine, drove home, parked it. Attempted to start two-three weeks later, it cranks fine, fires, but won't continue running. It was pretty low on gas when I parked it (red light on) so I put 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it and brought up the needle. Same symptoms occur. At the same time I notice that my key fobs are not synchronized. Both had dead batteries apparently so I replaced them today. Both transmit (red LED's) but will not activate central alarm. I tried to re-sync them....switch off ignition, press button within 6 seconds, but that didn't work...still no activation. I'm pretty sure I hear the fuel pump running when I switch the key on although I have not gone as far as checking the fuel pressure. I had no check engine lights prior. I'm wondering if these are related events....am I being locked out by the disable feature or are these two unrelated problems. '99 996, 6-speed, not a daily driver and the car is in otherwise well maintained condition, I've had it for 5 years. Oil looks good, coolant looks and smells, well, like coolant, fuel filter is less than a year old. In full disclosure I should mention that I started an '04 C5 Corvette project car not twenty feet away from the 911 during the two-three week downtime for the 911, so, .....these cars are pretty smart. Any help would be appreciated. I seem to recall a reset sequence on the alarm/disable function but I can seem to find it. Any help would be appreciated.

Try fiddling with the ignition switch? When the engine starts, jiggle the key around as the engine dies -to find out if moving the key keeps it going.The ignition switches are notorious for electrical gremlins. What was the CEL code if any ?

Tried that, no change, but thanks for the advice. Checked fuel pump fuse, bench tested the fuel pump relay, all good. Swapped relays also, no change. Next, test the fuel pressure. It looks like the threaded test port is an odd ball size from what I am reading. Does anyone know if you have to shunt the relay socket (30/87) to power the pump or can you just turn the key to "ON"? Thanks.

You may want to clean your throttle body and idle control valve thoroughly. It's common for the ICV to gum up. To power the fuel pump, just remove the fuel pump relay and jump the two power pins. The key will not keep the pump on continuously.

Maybe bad fuel pressure regulator, or it is stuck? Part No. 2 here http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=107-05

When my fuel pump crapped out, that was my condition. The pump hadn't failed completely; there was enough fuel charge to start it, but it definitely wasn't pumping enough fuel to keep the car running. Is it a C2 or a C4? The fuel pump is easy to access in the C4; somewhat less so for the C2.

If it is a C4, the fuel tank on a C4 is like a saddle bag, IIRC. Since it was really low on fuel, and then he put in only 2 1/2 gallons, it is possible it just doesn't have fuel in the part of the tank where it pumps from. Seems like I read a thread about this phenomenon 3 1/2 years ago when the fuel pump in my C4 shot craps.

Gummy.....thanks, its possible. I inspected the AOS and throttle body recently, I am getting some carryover in there. Not getting any AOS symptoms. Car has 72K mi. and its probably the original AOS. It doesn't look like a significant amount of accumulation but I have never cleaned the ICV. Pressure regulator...., could be, I'm thinking to check the pressure if I have the fittings. I have a pretty complete kit just not sure if I have the Porsche-size fitting. If the test port is upstream of regulator that would be a first step....need to confirm if that is the configuration. ..C2/C4......its a C2. I read the procedure, a little involved but not as bad as having to remove or completely drain the fuel tank. If it is the pump I may change the regulator while I'm at it. Another note, I did get a CEL recently, first ever actually, and it was fuel/air related and was pointing to the O2 sensor/MAF sensor area. I had just cleaned the air filter and though that I may have put too much oil on the filter and it made its way to the MAF sensor. I cleared the code and waited, I did not get another CEL. I had maybe 10-15 start cycles before this recent issue. I plan to scan for codes tonight and see what is on there. It really does sound like low or non-existent fuel pressure. Thanks for the response!

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C2, but, I was wondering if it may have air bound or something. This is the lowest I have ever let it get. Is was the day before we all shut down for Hurricane Mathew, I was on my way home and the gas lines were horrific so I cruised home and parked it. I have actually tried starting it (and jumped it) about 10 times so far with no luck.

Well, since it's a C2, that blows my theory. Just FYI for anyone in the future that finds this thread, here's a pic of a gas tank from an AWD 996 (C4, C4S or 996TT) showing the saddlebags.

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The worst thing about the C4 gas tank is forgetting to fill it up before I do something requiring a battery disconnect. Grrr. OP, even if you run it completely dry, it will get sorted out when you fill it up next. There aren't really any steps or procedures to follow; it's not like vaporlocking something back in the 80's...

Update: I lucked out...my Harbor Freight fuel injection pressure test kit does have the proper fitting for the test port. I jumped the pins on the relay block, I heard the pump fire up but it made nasty inconsistent noise at first. Speed sounded unstable then settled down. I got 51 psi on the gauge and it held just above 49 psi for five minutes after I pulled the jumper. I tested twice more, each time the pump made a hi rev unstable sound and settled down on 50 psi. I bled off about a cup of gas under pressure...looks clean, no water. Stuck the relay back in and started it. This time if fired up really fast but then stopped. I swapped out the relay with the fog light relay that I know works just to be sure, same symptom as before. Put the old relay back in the next few times it wouldn't even fire. I think I've ruled out fuse, relay, regulator and gas pickup and condition. It sounds like a bad pump...maybe it can reach pressure but not flow, or pumps speed is erratic and doesn't keep up once the injectors start opening up.

Your fuel pressure looks good. You may as well check the flow rate too - at least 850mL/30 seconds per Porsche. May also want to check or any stored/pending codes using Durametric.

Check for corrosion on all the fuses in your fusebox. Did you verify spark? Try to watch for cranking rpm with a scan tool, or possibly the tach may jump slightly while cranking.

Thanks. Fuse box is clean and I replaced the fuse just in case. When I jump the relay terminals (30/87) the pump will run (or did) so the fuse should be working. Update, after doing the pressure test the pump was a little erratic. When I jumpered again to do flow test I got nothing from the pump, no sound with. I ordered a new pump, seal, and relay yesterday from Pelican, I'll swap it out this weekend. It does fire nicely, the symptom was it would fire at startup run about two seconds and die off. When I did the pressure test it held pressure at 49 psi. When I started it afterwards if fired really quickly rev'd then died. Now I get nothing from the pump.

So Ahsai was correct ! Flow problem. Well done again Ahsai !

When I mentioned checking for corrosion in the fusebox I meant all the fuses, not just the one for the fuel pump. I just dealt with a 996 that had similar symptoms as you describe. Half the fuses had corrosion, and weren't making contact. Remember the ecu controls the fuel pump in most cases, so if you have an electrical issue it does not have to be directly related to the fuel pump for it to cause problems. This particular car had many strange/ interm issues and had been to many places before us with no solution.

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10-4...I'll check the others, easy enough once contorted into position. So far I've been very fortunate with electrical on this car. Although my 996 is a clean title purchased from a local Porsche reseller, as a hobby I pick up "pound rescues", (salvage cars) from time to time just to work on or fix up for family, friends, or myself. I've had a couple of minor flood vehicles. I have seen that corrosion condition you are describing on cars that were not immediately cleaned up or may have been exposed to salt spray but not submerged. Also, just b/c they are clean title they still could have been exposed to flood with tell tale gremlins like that. I see it a lot in Florida. Thanks for the feedback

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You're counting the chicken already? I dunno, will wait for the fuel pump r&r first.

When trying to start, does the tachometer move up a couple hundred RPM? Does it jump around? Try a video of the tach while the engine is on the starter, and post it. Yes, I can learn a ton from this.

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Because when it comes to diagnostics, you are no turkey !

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Barely, first video is first start attempt, fires right up, dies. Second video is second attempt, fires a little slower, dies quicker (as if the first attempt bled the gas pressure from the fuel rail....my guess). FYI, car is '99 C2, 6 spd, 72k miles, has Tubi exhaust, K/N intake. You Tube You Tube

The videos don't play....says it's private.

Should be fixed. Forgot to publish.

I put the new fuel pump and relay in tonight but that didn't solve it. It did however get slightly better, it fires up fast but takes only a little longer to die, maybe twice as long. I also checked for codes (with my OBD program), no stored or pending codes. Looks like I'll be getting a new tank level sending unit....as soon as I touched the release on the vapor hose connection to remove it the housing nipple snapped off in my hand. I don't see any way to fix it or to replace only the top portion. I tried super glue but that didn't work for long. One thing I did notice, see pic below, there is what appears to be a nipple with no tubing connected to it at the top of the sending unit. See where tip of ball point pin is. There was no tubing there when I removed the battery tray. If anyone could confirm if that is supposed to have a tubing connection that would be helpful. No tubing connected at plastic nipple. Normal?

It appears there is nothing that connects to that vent:

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I don't know what the part you are referring to looks like but I have repaired broken plastic nipples by gluing in a sleeve and then gluing the broken piece over it. You can get small diameter brass tubing at a hobby shop that is useful for this purpose.

DBJoe996: excellent, thanks! Rockhouse66: if you see my photo above its the vapor tube connection nipple pointing down at 6 o'clock off the turret looking feature. In that photo I glued it… it held for a while. Im tempted to make a repair but if it fails at that location I'm pretty sure I'm gonna gas fumes or worse. Thanks!

Yeah, I agree the fuel pump top/level sensor should be replaced with that nipple cracked. ​​​After replacing the fuel pump, if it still doesn't fix the problem, I think you may want to do another pressure and flow tests. How old is the fuel filter? One other possibility is your evap purge valve is stuck open and the gas tank receives a huge vacuum whenever the engine is running. That will starve the fuel to the engine. To test, you can leave the gas cap open the push in the round metal door a bit and start the car to see if it makes a difference.

Fuel filter is about I year old and has maybe 4k mi on it. Also, when I looked in the gas tank...perfectly clean, no water no debris. New fuel pump is in. Yes, another round of pressure/flow test. I'm suspecting the pressure regulator. Regarding vacuum, the vapor connection mentioned above cracked right after I put the hose back on. That opened the tank to atmosphere as near as I can tell so it should have relieved any vacuum on startup. Also, I have just under a quarter tank of gas so gives plenty head space of the liquid, at least for startup purposes hopefully.

I would say the regulator is downstram of the test port. The regulator controls the amount of fuel returning back to the tank which in turn regulates the fuel pressure on the rail (test port). You can apply vacuum to the regulator during the pressure and test. With vacuum applied, the fuel pressure should be sligtly lower, 0.2bar or so from memory.

Yep, DBJoe996's diagram above confirms it.

Forgot to say your vids look normal to me other than the super slow starter. You said the car has been sitting so I guess that's just a weak battery. I could see the tach needle initial 1/8" bounce that Jake was asking about. Crank position sensor is always a suspect especially if there's no code. In your case though since you did the actual pressure/flow test and found the pump to be erractic, that pointed to the pump and potentially electrical issue like 2n3r mentioned. I guess testng the new pump will reveal more.

Yes, battery a little low. I didn't get a chance to put gauge on yet for pressure and flow test (started raining w/car on driveway) but I did jumper the new pump. The new pump sounded good and I could hear the fuel swooshing by the regulator valve (engine off) back to the tank. The gauge will tell but I'm wondering if the regulator spring is too weak on first vacuum...as soon as the car fires up. I tried starting the car with fuel pump jumpered and pumping just to rule out electrical problems energizing the pump.....no change, exact same symptoms.

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Sounds like it but of course only the gauge will tell like you said.

Ran flow and pressure test. Flow, through test port.... 770 ml in 30 seconds. The orifice in the test hose is pretty small BTW. Pressure test without starting or running, key off, pump jumpered: 55 psi, about 5 psi better than old pump. It drops off a few pounds after pump switched off at 00:12 You Tube Start test with gauge on...pressure kicks up to 55 psi when key on then drops off to about 45 when engine fires then starts going back up as engine dies. You Tube Is 45 psi to low for run pressure?

Nominal Fuel Pressure test values from manual, w/jumpered fuel relay: 3.8 bar = 55.114 PSI (Acceptable Range 52.213 PSI to 58.014 PSI) 3.3 bar = 47.862 PSi (Acceptable Range 44.961 PSI to 50.762 PSI) I'm still leaning towards the fuel pressure regulator, particularly after all you have done. You measured 770 ml and that is way below the minimum flow rate.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1042x855/fuel_quantity_procedure_f39f93f4ae16654fabe6673a0495b386cd6488a3.jpg

Thanks for the detailed info! Testing through the test port using the gauge hose which has a very small orifice (with gauge removed) is likely the restriction. It was screaming out of that orifice and got 770 ml which is 90%. Pretty sure when I remove the return hose I'll get full flow through an open hose. I did not use a Tester 2, I used a remote starter switch wired to jump relay contact. New regulator on order. Will install and test again. I'm still wondering if the problem is related to the key fob issue mentioned at the beginning of my post. But, as I understand it the immobilizer on the '99 996 would not allow the engine to turn over and fire at all. I have tried every reset procedure I can find.... Except flipping the batteries over. That's next. Remote lock still not working.

No, your understanding of the immobilizer is correct so it's not that. Have you checked and cleaned the idle control valve? With your new measurements, I doubt it's the pressure regulator though.

What about MAF and any other air control? I admit I didn't reread this whole thread, but if the car is getting enough fuel to start and then crapping out, maybe fuel and spark are fine and the problem is with air metering...

That's a good suggestion. JAckstand, have you tried unplugging the MAF and see if that makes a difference? Do you have any scan tool that can read MAF reading in real-time? You can also check voltage with a multimeter. ~1.1v with key ON engine OFF and about 1.3v when idling.

I know I know...I kind of doubt it too. But, this scenario is puzzling. For the engine to start, and then die, it is like it is starving for fuel. So with the new fuel pump, fairly new fuel filter, acceptable pressure on the fuel rail, an acceptable fuel quantity flow, no codes, just a simple lack of running, even idling. Of course it has to be something! I agree with cleaning out the ICV, but I have had mine pretty gummed up and the car at least idles, high idle or rough idle, or wandering idle. Always corrected after a good cleaning. It is like something is cutting off the fuel flow, or restricting it, and if it was DME related it would have thrown a code. So not there. I was wondering...not that I have seen or heard, but is there a fuel pump inertia switch somewhere in our cars? I think I'm howling at the moon now.....

Besides the MAF sensor (good idea to pull it and clean it), I was wondering if the Throttle Position Sensor is acting up so the DME doesn't know the position of the throttle plate relative to air/fuel delivery? Maybe check that out as well.

Thanks all. While waiting for the regulator and fuel level sending unit I will look airside and check some of these suggestions. I use OBDwiz on my laptop and believe I can read, log, and plot most parameters including MAF. I did have an event, described earlier where I cleaned the K&N filter and may have gotten too much oil on it. About two weeks later I got two codes relating to MAF and O2 but it was running and idling fine. I cleared them and they didn't come back... At least with 10 start cycles on the clock before the latest problem. I don't have the codes with me but they are written down.

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Probably worth cleaning everything that may be sensitive to oil contamination ? Oil may have pooled in places so just a quick wipe of the MAF would be insufficient?

easy enough to pull out and clean...I have a can of MAF cleaner anyway. And, check the other areas mentioned. FYI, also, I pulled every fuse in the block and checked...all clean, all good. i did not check all the relays but the fuel pump relay is brand new, came with the pump.

I did not read through all the posts. Thus; this may be a repeat suggestion. I had a similar issue and turned out to be the FOI relay in the rear compartment area. The car would start and then die. Eventually, it would not start at all. The FOI relay was replaced and all is good.

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Definitely worth checking. If I understand you correctly, that's either relay #1 or #2. Jackstand, you can swap relay #8 (engine compartment fan) with #1 or #2 since all 3 are the same relay. See this relay diagram https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post13489065

Thanks, I tried that and no change....but, at least now I know where the other relays, the 40 amp fuse and the DME are and how to get to them. And also, how to access the tops of the struts. HOWEVER, next I unplugged the MAF and it fired right up strong and idled really well!...possibly better than it has idled on cold start in a long time. I found the problem but haven't solved it yet...had to pack it in. I'll start with a cleaning of the MAF and check the voltages now that I can also check idle voltage. Thanks for all the support and feedback..strength in numbers. I'll go ahead and install the pressure regulator when it arrives since all these parts appear to be original and pushing 17 years old. Still cant get the key fobs to work after running the engine and going through the sequence. But at least now I'll be driving to the dealership.

That's great news! 5CHN3LL nailed this one!

Let's try to be specific about why unplugging the MAF worked? Because it is coated with oil and can not accurately 'read' a signal ?In fact ,when coated with oil it gives a false signal.Hence the poor running with it connected. If so, as I suggested previously, the entire oil-soaked system needs to be cleaned of oil contamination. I wonder if there is the early stages of an AOS leak also? Let's hope a simple vacuum test can eliminate that tedious job? Over to the experts.

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Today on Rennlist we proved the infinite monkey theorem!

Yes, but we still have the problem of why this engine has pyromania. And why it's lazy.

I've been keeping an eye on the AOS for about a year and a half since I found a leak in the lower hose at the AOS. Turns out, someone previously put the wrong style clamp on there or it just came loose but I had leaking oil up there. I fixed it and I've been watching the throttle body. I cleaned it (interior surface and t plate) about 9 months ago then looked at it again about a month ago when I cleaned the K&N filter....it had little if any new accumulation but that could have changed. I'll get a good look on the inside this weekend. It occurs to me that I can use the business end of my airlift pump to measure crankcase pressure at the cap without having to poke holes in anything and get an actual vacuum. I have not seen any other symptoms (white smoke, etc.).....till now of course. Primates? More like the Borg collective mind.

Update..... Cleaned MAF pretty good with MAF cleaner. Looked at it under glass before and after, it actually looked pretty clean before I cleaned it. No oil residue in the intake tube and throttle body to speak of, very very minor amount in the TB. I took readings on OBD with the key on, engine not running, MAF plugged in and reading with the engine idling and MAF unplugged. I kicked the idle up a bit just to make sure I was getting a reading on the throttle position sensor. See below. It wont idle with the MAF plugged in. I get nothing in the MAF department (no temperature with key on). I did not see a feature yet for MAF voltage but I need to look further. Usually though it will show proper temperature with the key on, engine not running. I did get several pending codes with the MAF unplugged...all related I believe to the MAF being out. 6 injector open circuit codes, MAF open circuit, air flow issue, etc. Possibly bad MAF sensor but dont want to jump to conclusion. I was thinking to pull out the schematic and check voltage, etc. that I should be seeing at the plug without the plug being inserted. Key on, engine off, MAF plugged in Engine idling, MAF unplugged Pending codes with MAF unplugged, engine idling.

further update... I checked MAF plug PIN voltages with MAF unplugged, key on, engine off. See schematic below. I get: PIN 1 = 5v PIN 2 = 11.8v, expected but seems low PIN 3 = ground, expected PIN 4 = 5v PIN 5 = NIL Sheet 12

Pin 2 shows a significantly low voltage. Is this caused by a low state of charge in the battery or voltage drop somewhere in the circuit to the MAF ? Either may be a good issue to rectify?

low charge from multiple starts with very little run time. I went back and checked and it reflects what I see at the battery. When idling I get 13 plus volts on the dash and similar at the charge post.

All measurements need to be taken with the MAF plugged in. You need to back probe the pins.

New data, MAF plugged in PINS; Key on, engine off 1 = 3.0v 2 = 11.8 (battery still a little low) 3 = Ground (11.8v) 4 = 5v 5 = 0.9v Key on starting 1 = 3.0v 2 = dips to 5 comes back to 11.8 on firing 3 = Ground (dips to 7v comes back to 11.8 on firing) 4 = 4.9-5.0v 5 = 0.9-1.1v For what its worth, when battery freshly charged and replaced at 12.8v I still get all the same symptoms. After several start attempts the battery was at 11.8 as reflected by the PINS above. It appears that as soon as it starts voltage comes back up to 12 or more just before it dies.

pin 1 = Air temp signal voltage pin 2 = +12v supply pin 3 = Ground (0v) pin 4 = +5v reference pin 5 = Air flow signal voltage (1.1v key On engine OFF. 1.3v at idle) Are you sure pin 3 measures 11.8v? It should measure 0v. pins 2, 4, and 5 look normal as far as I can tell. I don't know what's the expected voltage for pin 1 at a specific temperature. If you have an OBDII scanner that reads intake air temp, does it should the correct temperature (it uses translates the pin 1 reading to temperature)?

PIN 3 is actually zero volts to ground. I reversed the DMM and read across the jumper cable terminal (12v +) and PIN 3 to make sure I was getting a ground signal back from the DME. In the two scans above (page 4) both are showing -40F for outside air temp (which is incorrect in south Florida) with the key on, and engine off. The MAF is actually plugged in and reading -40F with the key on/engine off. The air temp is about 76F. It looks like the DME is getting a -40F message regardless of PIN 1 voltage. The second scan is with the engine idling and the MAF unplugged and the signal on the OBD scan is still -40F. Long story short, with the key on and MAF plugged in (PIN 1=3v) and with the engine idling, MAF unplugged (PIN 1 = 5v on the plug) the DME still sees -40F on the scanner. I'm guessing -40F (= -40C) is the value the DME isnt expecting as mentioned in an above post. Perhaps it ignores this value in "limp" mode when the MAF is unplugged.

I think you have found your problem (the IAT sensor inside the MAF) because I'm sure the OBDII should read the correct temp even with key ON engine OFF. Now the question is why? With the MAF unplugged, pin 1 on the connector measured 5v so the wire is connected to the DME (not a break in the wire). Why the DME reads the same -40C even with different voltage on pin 1? The logical explanation is both 3v and 5v are out of range (for temp below 40C) so your IAT is bad.

You may also want to plug your OBDII scanner to another car and make sure you see some reasonable IAT readings, just in case. It will have to be implemented very wrong though.

Thanks, I recall that it does b/c I've taken notice of it before prior to startup. However I plan to hook up on another vehicle in the morning to see what I get to make sure. I'm guessing minimum resistance drops it to a reference of 3v then varies something like 0-3v over the temperature range. Meanwhile I'm searching for a range.... I'll update.

Yep, confirmed, the OBD scanner reads accurate intake air temp on two other vehicles in my driveway key on, engine off. I've had the car for five years and its never had a new MAF sensor but cleaned once or twice. Sometime before I purchased it someone installed an Evolution air intake but it looks like the original Porsche MAF. I'll order a new MAF to match since I dont think it will be a complete waste if it doesnt solve the problem. Lets see.....

New MAF from Bosch available from amazon for $120 or so. Not too bad at all.

Update....new MAF sensor arrived. Stuck it in and, after a jump, it fired right up with the MAF plugged in and purred like a kitten. I did get a check engine light but before even checking it I shut it down and replaced the fuel tank level sending unit with the new one that also arrived...the previous one had a broken vent line nipple. Started it up after and took it for a drive, no CEL. It has a little more kick and is idling better. I also replaced the battery, I think all the cranking and testing pushed the old battery over the edge, could no longer hold a charge. I still need to change the fuel pressure regulator with the new one that arrived with the sending unit just to square away the fuel system. Thanks for all the help!!

Glad to hear you got it sorted!

Another one for the MAF sensor! It is obviously becoming a very common theme. Good work diagnosing the problem and like Schnell said - thanks for sharing your journey.

Louie, Thank you for concluding the "help me'" Thread. So often these threads just die and we are left hanging with no confirmation any suggestions made were effective. Then the knowledge base suffers because we have just a muddle of symptoms and potential solutions . So Thank You ! Interesting to note the failure mode of the old MAF - a bit confusing but a multimeter test is probably determinative ?

Well...I narrowed it to the MAF sensor by process of elimination (and from suggestions above) and with the combination of my standard OBD program and a digital multimeter the temperature signal was the only anomaly I could find so I based the replacement on that. Likely, if I could read the data stream via the DME to/from the MAF it might have told me something more definitive but I don't have that capability so it was a little trial and error mixed with info at hand. So far I've been through about 10 start cycles and everything seems fine. It definitely has a little more kick particularly above say, 2500 RPM or so. I may have a dragging starter though. I have a new battery and tested the battery/charging system. They are fine, but the starter seems slow to me. It fires up every time though. Concerning the key fob issues mentioned above I stopped by the dealer,.....they asked if I had been through several of the standard reset procedures which they enumerated and I responded yes so they confirmed they have to be reprogrammed. I made an appointment to come back. $185.

" but the starter seems slow to me" High resistance somewhere in the thick cable to the starter/from the battery?

Yep....I took it to the dealer to reprogram the keys....ended up having to swap out the blade on one to a new transmitter/fob. While there I had them listen to the starter turn, already warmed up. I decided to leave it with them to diagnose. They came back with that diagnosis, "abnormally high resistance in the cable from the battery to the starter harness", not the cheaper harness at the starter/alternator/jumper. Huge job. Like a day and a half. On the bright side they did fix my lagging, schizophrenic sunroof for free.

Louie, For others who are wondering why this is so expensive - access ! I hope the Tech who does this has long skinny fingers and a good supply of band aids ! If you get a wiring diagram , you'll see what is involved . If you want to do the simple preliminary work instead of the Dealer - There are several useful threads on this subject by Ahsai. Search for "Y connector". Also strip back the cable insulation near the battery terminals to look for corrosion underneath. Bad grounds also ?