Opinions on Rebuilt Title Car

I am probably asking a dumb question, but I will throw it out there anyway. What is the general consensus on buying a car with a "rebuilt" title? Car had damage to the right rear passenger quarter and front bumper. Don't know the extent of the original damage and seller claims it is repaired near perfect. Would you guys even consider a car with a salvage title or whatever "rebuilt" means?

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I would only consider if there was documentation (like pictures and receipt for repairs) of the original damage and even then would only pay 60-70% market value for an accident free car.

Thanks. Yes, it is well below market value of the car (~60%). I am leaning towards not bothering due to that fact, but the price is really good. And it looks to be in great shape otherwise.

I think it depends on your goal for the car. Consider: The salvage title means usually means that the cost to repair the damage is greater than the value of the car. And the insurance company refuses to make the repairs, so their path is to pay the owner the full value of the car, and then they send the car to auction where somebody picks it up, repairs it and then sells it. Insurance companies derate this whole plan, they are very conservative. So (not exact numbers) if the damage estimate is $10,000 on a $20,000 car the insurance might total it to avoid taking the risk that the actual repair costs will grow and grow compared to the estimate. The most important thing is for the seller to have documentation and pictures on what the actual damage was so you can evaluate what the damage might have affected, and if the repairs were done "good enough". About your goals, if you plan to keep the car and drive it for a long time, then it probably doesn't matter if it has a salvage title. If you are unsure, or just trying out a Porsche, and plan to exit if you don't like it, then remember that a salvage title will always have a significantly lower value. Because of the lower value, this can provide an incentive for the owner to always short cut or neglect needed maintenance / repairs thus compounding the problem. I don't know if this happens anymore, but in the past some shops down in Mexico (near here in San Diego) would buy totaled cars and put them back together. Literally they would buy a late model Mercedes that had the rear totaled, another one of the same model that had the front totaled, cut them in half, weld them together, and we have a salvage car on the market. Not sure of the rules, but theft recovery can result in a salvage title. So if this is documented, then it could be a great deal if there was no damage. If the insurance company totals the car, the owner can buy it back from them for a very low price. I've done this 3 times, and simply arranged repairs on my own. It works great, you can have your car back for peanuts and keep driving it. For example a the insurance might value the car at $20K, offer the buy back at $4K, you get $16K cash plus the car. Then if you can repair the car for $10K, you get to pocket $6K. In the case of this car, I believe the quarter panel repair costs have gotta be very high, perhaps an obvious total for the insurance, but in fact beyond that the car might be absolutely fine. Or perhaps it was a flooded car, and somebody is just telling a story that it was the quarter panel / bumper. Long stories, sorry, but IMHO the 2 main things to consider are: 1. understand what the damage was, and 2. realize it will always resell at a lower price.

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Exactly!

First consideration is the model year and price! If there is no documentation of the damage and the repair, I would have a HIGH end body shop inspect the car. These guys will see things in a different way than you or I Keep in mind that the body work is only part of the picture...you have to consider the car as if it had NO damage...in other words, don't be blinded by just the repairs... Salvage title is not a turn off to everyone, it depends on the rest of the car, and what you intend to do with it...keep it a long time? (Then again...you can't really assume that even if that is your thinking) If it's good and you can "steal" it, as a "driver" it may be just what you want, keep in mind that when the time comes to sell it..it may take time to find another.... "you"

I've owned and sold a few, if the work looks good then it could be a good buy. Ideally, pictures and documentation would be available.

I have owned a few, hail damage (mercedes) BMW135i Right rear qrt, Porsche 911 ( they said water) when fully inspected was not water and it had a new engine from factory, because of IMS issue, this was a great buy and still have it. So answer is all cars are different, get photos, take a friend that knows what he is looking at. Then get up on lift and check it out. All cars were built once and can be rebuilt again if done correctly with care. If you like the car, its a good price and you want to drive it, go get it.

I belive any salvage title cancels all factory warrantys, It did on my 2015 lexus with 63 miles.

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We are talking 996 here aren't we? Factory warranty is out... How much are they asking for this car $8K? Just know you'll never get your money back out of it.

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You may want to reacquaint yourself with the original post.

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This is in the 996 section. Do you have inside information that makes you think this is not in regard to a 996? In regard to the OP - you have to ask a few questions. Was the car repaired properly? Is there any documentation to support the repair? Do you plan to resell? If so, are you expecting equal or more than you spend? If so - you will be disappointed. Is the price low enough to take a chance? This is where I came to be an owner. My car has a rebuilt title, the price was very reasonable and I was willing to take a chance. You will need to figure if this will work for you.

OK guys, thank you for your very valuable input. I really appreciate it. I just wanted your opinions on the issue and glad you were generous with your thoughts. First off, I am not new to the Porsche game. I have been in the early 911 scene for a while owning a variety of them and even a 914-6 (GT rep). I have been thinking of a 996 to add to the stable and am very aware of all the issues regarding the IMS, etc. I am also no stranger to the buying/keeping long term/selling process. Normally, I would not even consider a car with a reconstructed title, but it is local and priced - I think - pretty reasonably (16.5k). The car looks great in photos (yeah, I know....) and I would most definitely go look it over closely followed by a PPI and body shop inspection. If I was going to get serious... I keep my cars a long time and this would be like that and I know it may be hard to find another "me." I like that comment - thanks. I would prefer a no accident car, but really don't mind it at the end of the day if the repair was done correctly. Heck, my 71T had a front crunch in 1975 that I bought and lived with for 12 years. Didn't bother me ---- much. Not sure about this car. I know the risks and issues, but just wanted to get your input for reference. It looks really nice and I may go take a look. But first, I will see if the seller has accident photos and paperwork. Great advice! Thanks.

As the basis of a track-day toy, with a full 'cage installed, sure thing. As a daily driver that might be transporting family or other loved-ones, then it's a hard no. As in all things, go with what fits your comfort zone.

$16.5? No! Look at same cars on CarGurus for comparison. Every major cities CL have a few to choose from as well.

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Really? You believe that safety has been compromised? What leads you to think this? Agreed. Depending on the year, options, mileage and documentation - that might be a bit high. There may be room for negotiation. I'd have a good look at it first and then see where it "comes in".

Google the VIN and look for pictures. Another good source is autoauctions.io. I bought an inexpensive membership recently when I bought a BMW X5 for my daughter. I suspected it was a previous auction car since it only came with one key. On their site, it will show auction history such as Copart or IAAI. Samcrac on YouTube has a good video in autoauctions.io where he was looking at cars that had been "enhanced". He was able to see pictures of the original damage. On a nother note, a "rebuilt" title is more valuable than a "salvage" title. In South Carolina, to get a rebuilt title, you have to take the car to the DMV to have it inspected before repairs are started. The DMV takes note of the signficant damage and re-inspects after repairs are complete. This way you get a rebuilt title as opposed to salvage. I wouldn't be opposed to buying a car with a rebuilt, or even salvage title, but I would want pictures if the repairs.

If it's a car you really want and can't afford otherwise, or it's a car that is in short supply - like a Supra or a pagoda roadster or a factory-turbo Z - then sometimes it makes sense to go with a salvage title. Same for track cars, winter beaters - you're going to demolish the value anyway, so who cares? Unless you have substantially deep pockets, don't pick up a salvage car with dreams of returning it to its former glory. Craigslist is full of other people's half-done train wrecks...

I would also keep in mind that it does not take much damage to "total" a 996 these days. High factory parts prices combined with relatively low resale values can lead to a totaled car with pretty minor damage. I had a very minor fender bender last year that resulted in a new passenger fender, litronic headlight, bumper cover, AC condenser, radiator, associated trim and plastic, and partial respray that came out to an insurance covered $11K - with absolutely no frame damage. It was literally a 3 mph impact at the front passenger corner. At the time the insurance value on my '99 was about $19.5. The adjuster said if the repairs had gotten close to 75% of that, they would just have totaled the car and I would have certainly bought it back and fixed it because it is otherwise a perfectly nice and well maintained car. It could also have been fixed for a fraction of that price by sourcing parts online, doing some of the disassembly and prep myself, etc. As posted previously, if you can find documentation of what was repaired - preferably with photos, that would go a long way. Also, "story" cars are always hard to sell - even when they are cheap. So I would not get it if I was looking for one to drive for a year and flip it because you'll just be dealing with the same headache of selling a car with a branded title. But if you plan to keep it for a few years and enjoy it, it would be worth considering if the price is right.

Quotes source post: 15869310

Why is it a hard no? There are lots of ways to total out a car; not all of them render it unsafe to drive.

The original post said there was damage to the rear quarter and front bumper. Modern cars are designed to crumple in a controlled fashion, in order to protect the occupants. Once. There's really no way to predict what will happen if the car's hit again. That's way out of my comfort zone, and to me relegates it to a parts car or track toy.

Ah, I thought you were indicating that any salvage title is a hard "no." The upper rear "fenders" on the 996 are not separate sheet metal - everything from the B pillar backward is a single pressing. My understanding is that damage requiring welding in this area would also require completely re-treating that panel, which isn't possible/practical.

5CHNELL, although it comes as one piece way originally, the parts fiche does show separate repair panels. http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p..._911_parts.php

16.5k Seems a little high for one with a salvage title. You do not mention other details like mileage, condition, has the IMS been replaced etc. I see them with salvage titles all day long for 10-12k. usually around 80k in miles and in need of a really good detail. The title itself would be of little concern to me if my goal was long term ownership, a clean PPI would be much more important.

Just my 2 cents here. I have owned 2 rebuilt titled cars and have no regrets. The most important thing is to inspect the car and the damaged area. If the repair seems quality and the car drives nice, then why not. My first rebuilt car was a 2004 Jetta GLI with 2K miles on it. Bought it, but I did have to work out a couple of bugs after I got it. No warranty from the factory or any recalls. So be aware of that. I put 60K trouble free miles on that Jetta and sold it for $2K less than I paid for it. Probably one of the best purchases I ever made. Then acquired an E36 M3 a couple years ago that was rebuilt. Had pictures of all the body work and the car looked like the day it was made by BMW. Had some trouble getting people out to look at it because of the title, but the first buyer that came out was so impressed he bought it right there no negotiating. Probably took about 10% less than market value, but I was happy and he has a great car. Still see it on the street near me and I kinda miss it. So if the car checks out and you like it why not.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4534666552193/

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Good info, thanks!

Interesting that someone brought this up. I am new to Arizona recently moved here from New England. I am a licensed dealer here in Arizona not exactly your typical car salesman. I buy vehicles I'm interested in, build,modify,have fun then sell them. Any way so since I moved out here I too have seen tons of cars with rebuilt/repaired titles and it does not add up at all. Recently there was a 2013 911 4s with 71k that was vandalized, it was "keyed" up one side and down the other. This was a one owner car, the original owners ex had a melt down, his insurance company totaled it, and he bought it back not sure for how much and had it painted, he had the documentation and pictures car fax shows zero accidents. He was asking 25k. This is one example of many I have seen since I moved here.On the east coast the vehicles damage repairs had to exceed the value of the vehicle before they would total it. That definitely is not the case here I see. Anyone in insurance shed some light on this? Are they taking dealer pricing only? Or how does this work? I know if you ask a dealer for a few 996 parts you'll be over the market value in no time. But I am seeing newer vehicles. There was a 2014 BMW 5 series with very minimal hail damage, to the point I'm 99% paintless dent removal would take care most of them. That car booked out at 14k it was totaled, absolutely nothing wrong but a few dimples. No where near 14k in damage. I dont thinking would be more than 1k . I have yet to buy anything only because I always resell my vehicles, and banks dont like to finance repaired titles,and people think you're hiding something. But if I see something I really want peraonally and its half price you better believe I'll get it. I'm just at awe as to why vehicles are all of the sudden being declared a loss?

In the state of Illinois where I live the threshold for a salvage title is 33% of the market value so when the cost of repair exceeds 33% of the market value of the car it it gets a salvage title. With the low prices of used 996’s in the market and the high cost of parts and labor for body shops, etc. it really does not take much damage for a car’s title to have a mark on it. And once the car is fixed it gets a rebuilt title and you see many cars with such titles in the state. As with elsewhere having documentation of what the damages and repairs were is very important.

Some good info here... https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/u...OLDS-CHART.pdf

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And it now has 47,000 miles

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We are still talking about 996's and factory warranty's are long gone.

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That seems like such a waste to me, it must be like that here too maybe even worse. A tow truck driver told me that the owner has the choice of check vs repair I dont see how or why an insurance company would want to pay out large claim when something can be fixed for less but maybe there is some back door loophole they are making more money on. I just know from being around cars my entire life, dealing with dealerships, bodyshops, on the east coast these cars would not even been considered as salvaged. Here I do believe its similar where a repaired title is a car that was in an accident and met the standards and checklist to be considered safe again or however you want to word it but mist most people see repair on a title they don't want it. I'm definitely taking a closer look at everything now that 2013 4s was still a 50 to 60k car for half price and honestly the paint job that was on it was better than it had new.

I have a totalled 996.2. I'm considering rebuilding it. I'm going to document the rebuild. Without documentation, I completely understand why potential buyers wouldn't feel comfortable buying it. One main reason why I'm considering rebuilding it is because many of the parts that were damaged should be replaced anyway due to age (radiators, hoses) or can easily be replaced with a parts car. You will be surprised how little damage it takes to total these cars. I saw one that had a low impact to the frunk bottom that just dented it and damaged the bumper. That's it! I would consider buying a rebuilt 911 if it had full documentation. Without it, I would be too worried shortcuts were taken.

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I'm with you 100% once upon a time we use to repair appliances lol now we throw everything away. Build it there will always be someone with common sense that sees value in it beyond a mark on the title. Also depending on your location I have some 996 parts I'm currently doing a GT2RS BODY KIT,wheels tires,coil overs I have a a nice fender too, headlights I'm in Phoenix, where was it hit? Twist 18s , rear wing motor and lid not exactly sure the proper name lol.

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I think a lot of people don't realize that sometimes the parts to rebuild a car aren't that bad but the shop labor can be quite high. You see a lot of these DIY guys on youtube rebuild cars relatively cheap with DIY and getting hookups with all their other youtube buddies. So if you do have a documented history of the repairs and receipts it goes a long way.

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Absolutely right! So my car was hit low in the front. The headlights fell out during the accident. One had a little scuff mark on it and a tab broken off it. Both still work and mount fine. The insurance company was going to replace both headlights. Like you said, us DIY guys can often fix and reuse damaged parts that the insurance adjuster will replace. The car came with a Tubi Stlye exhaust as well! One of the exhaust tips was bent. The adjuster was going to replace the whole exhaust! I'm going to have an exhaust shop cut and weld on a new pipe. The main issues with my car is the chassis definitely needs to be straightened, the frunk cut out and replaced, a new hood, the front crash beam and other random little parts, and a new rear bumper. The rest I can salvage, replace with new parts, or get from a donor car. I already had an OEM front bumper in the same color. Wooohooo! I think.when the frame is straightened, the fenders will snap back into shape. I will have complete confidence when its done, and have many pictures and receipts for it.

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This is definitely some involved work there, more than I would feel comfortable doing but can always make a good project if you are good with DIY.

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You have to be a certain type of person to enjoy rebuilding cars. It's just like people who enjoy rebuilding houses. Most of my friends laugh at the crappy cars I like. Lol I absolutely love imagining the possibilities of what a wrecked/neglected car could be. I enjoy turning a cool/rare car that was either neglected or wrecked into something better than it was from the factory, and having a legitimate reason to do it! I don't like modifying nice well-kept cars. I like leaving them nice and just preserving them. Its unfortunate that rebuilt cars get a bad reputation. I get it though. It's easier for unskilled people to flip wrecked cars for a quick profit by doing sub-par work than houses. Body work on cars is definitely more of an art and fewer people have the talent that it takes to repair them properly Tools to repair a car often are more expensive, too.