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YOUR RESEARCHRan with a 996 Turbo last Night
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The 996.1 is definitely lighter then the 996.2 but also chassis rigidity was improved in the 996.2 so that is probably the main reason for the weight gain.
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Just agreeing that the turbo wasn't running right or wasn't giving his all.
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Not many believe their Honda is faster than a 911, but if they can goad a 911 into running then THAT is something worth telling their friends.
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I believe they don't include a full tank of gas, but rather they use 20l or something like that to be consistent with all manufactures since they all have unique sized gas tanks.
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I believe they don't include a full tank of gas, but rather they use 20l or something like that to be consistent with all manufactures since they all have unique sized gas tanks.
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The 996.1 is definitely lighter then the 996.2 but also chassis rigidity was improved in the 996.2 so that is probably the main reason for the weight gain.
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I see a 996 turbo pull onto the street I am driving on in Chicago....getting ready to get on the highway. I jockey around and within a few short blocks I am behind him. He knows I a there. One car in front of him. The light turns and we are on a straight open uphill.
I stay close behind in first, the car in front of him moves over and I put it to the floor as he is accelerating. Grab second.....we are basically nose to tail.....we are accelerating, and when I get to 3rd, he starts pulling away.
We then had to slow down.....
I could then smell the turbo engine exhaust vapors in my cabin.....very similar to when I get on my 951 hard. I have to say that I don't really like that smell from a 996.
After that jaunt, I agree that the 996 NA is probably 90% the car for 40% the money! That turbo looked awesome though! I was surprised how well my car kept up with it.
That is all.
Yeah, there was something not right with that TT. The 996 n/a and 996TT are in a completely different league in straight line speed, the TT gets through the 1/4 mile over a second quicker and traps 10mph faster, that is a MASSIVE gap.
I bet the TT was in the wrong gear and he just rolled on it until it got into the power band. In the mean time, you were rowing the gears like a mad man thinking you are keeping up with him.
Thanks KC! You are absolutely right!
Unfortunatly, I think my gear selection and think ahead was in a better position as compared to the turbo.
I have never driven a 996T....but would like to so I can see how it performs before the boost comes on and when it comes on. My modified 951 is just as fast or faster than the 996 on the highway, but from a dead stop....no way.
when I was looking to buy I test drove a few c2's c4s's and turbo's here are some technical thoughts I'd like to share.
996 turbo is fast
996 c2 is slower
996 c4s is slower
At the end of my technical analysis I bought the turbo based on the following empirical data:
996 turbo is fast
996 c2 is slower
996 c4s is slower
TT was definitely in the wrong gear or was an autotragic with a 300lb man driving behind the wheel loaded by solid spoke rims, failing turbos, faulty wastegates, 87 oct gas, 200lbs of aftermarket stereo equipment, faulty knock sensor.
Reminds me of that one time I was in Scottsdale on 101 on-ramp behind the Veyron in the AMG. He smashed it on green, I stayed with him through first three gears, he barely started to pull in 4th.
Huge gap.
Here's a vid of my WRX vs a couple higher horsepower cars. The Z06 does 12.9 and I do 13.3 (end of vid). He's buses ahead of me. My old WRX is faster than my C4S. I am babying my launch due to the glass 5 speed in my WRX, she had more in her.
MR Drag Racing Event @ Napierville - YouTube
We had a 996 turbo join us that day and it was even all day long with the turbo Saleen mustang.
As an owner of both the n/a and the turbo I can say with no uncertainty that they are in two different classes of speed. the n/a cannot even come close to hanging with the turbo assuming both cars are in proper working condition and are driven with the same amount of aggression.
Oh, I'm not dumping on him. Just agreeing that the turbo wasn't running right or wasn't giving his all. A turbo would put quite a distance on our little NA's.
Paul's a pretty good sport, so I know he's taking it with a grin on his face. And although the 996tt is way faster than the '99 C4 aero was, I'd hardly call the '99 slow. It was plenty fast enough to get me several tickets. And I'll agree with Paul that the NA 996 is 90% of the turbo experience at 40% of the price, except that I'd up that percentage to the high 90's. If you keep your foot in the 996tt for more than a few seconds, you are just going stupid fast, so the fun doesn't last.
Oh, boy, but it
is
fun.
Anything can happen on the street. It's not the same as reading dyno numbers or magazine scores. I have outrun faster cars and been beaten by slower cars. It's the really real world out there..
Turbo owner was probably granny shifting and not double clutching like you.
Now tell us, did you launch your NA from 6k RPM Paul?
Fast and Furious racing against Ferrari Scene - YouTube
I don't know about the street, but same applies to the track. I think I have a youtube video in my channel of me chasing a 996 Turbo in my WRX for a few laps. That car should be putting tons and tons of distance on me. Newb driver though from what I understood but it was good for the ego. LOL
I know we all have a hard-on for the Turbo, but a 996 turbo makes all of 115HP more than a NA 996. That's a nice number, but not exactly Gumpert or Bugatti territory.
According to some very knowledgeable forum members, a K&N cone filter, an ebay chip, and the proper sticker combination will net at LEAST 100 HP.
The 4 to the floor is my second-favorite transmission. The three-to-the-tree will always be epic. And the 15-inch boofers...guys-who-can-almost-talk-car LOVE those things!
its not the total hp# that matters, but as a percentage. 115 more hp than 300 hp is an increase of more than 30% which is substantial on cars that both are light and weigh about the same. going from say 900 to 1000 would not net much on the 4000+ pound Bugatti.
Some guy in an Altima kept tailling me and shifting back and forth between lanes on the way into the office this morning. At some point, the right lane opened up but he just sat on my bumper (which was really pissing me off). I made use of the open lane to move away and put some safe distance between us (which happened very quickly). Unfortunately, he saw it as me taking his race bait and he started cutting people off, weaving through traffic to get ahead. I happily let him by and watched him continue cutting people off from far behind. Let me tell you, he really showed me.
Mad props to the Altima driver.
-Eric
Plus, if the 996TT owner hasn't reached Lifetime Membership status at WW, they might have an even larger weight disadvantage.
-Eric
P.S. 500lbs? Is that right?
One of my neighbors has a 991 GT3. He saw me in my C2 on the drive home and we made some noise. Interestingly enough, I never see him when I am in a "real" GT3, one with the "extra" pedal.
(relax - no need for PDK lovers to jump in - I'm just poking fun at the "millenial" GT3 - we're all family)
I've seen people put their 3.4l 996 C2 on the scales and come in at over 3200 lbs. I believe the 3.6C2 is a tad heavier. My Turbo comes in at 3400 lbs with a full tank of gas.
Same effing thing happened last night on the way home, too. Is it a full moon?
I slowly passed a guy in a '90s era Mustang GT on the parkway. He was traveling slowly in the right lane. I was in the left lane, nobody behind me...minding my own business. I didn't blow by him but he lit up his engine the moment I passed. Then he started switching lanes and tailing me every time he'd cut back behind me. I stayed in the same lane because we were in heavy traffic and I was keeping pace with the guy in front of me. Eventually, he tore off, nearly missing a few people he cut off (including the slow moving Lincoln MKZ in front of me).
Enter the MKZ. The driver of this car must have fallen asleep because he eventually left a gap of what looked like 1/4 mile between him and the closest car in front of him. He seemed beholden to going absolutely nowhere in the left lane and eventually traffic opened up so I slowly pulled to the right to pass (2 lane road -- the Merritt Pkwy for those familiar with it). Well, that woke him up because he then floored it and took off weaving through traffic just like the Mustang. I never even tipped into the gas. The first car he cut off jammed its brakes pretty hard to avoid an accident as he cut in front of them.
And sure enough, as soon as the MKZ took off, a guy in a Corolla (where do these people come from) starts riding on my ***. I pull to the right because I don't want him hitting me. The left lane is now wide open. What does he do? He moves to the right. WTF? Really?
Rant over.
-Eric
Eric I think the root of your problem is that you misunderstand the function of the skinny peddle. I find that the ones that can keep up with me aren't the type to tailgate
LOL
The skinny pedal and I go way back. We're very well acquainted. I just don't believe in cutting people off and driving like an idiot. I'm talking about rush hour traffic in the NYC metro area. Generally speaking, we were a sea of cars moving at or below 30mph.
-Eric
In my Turbo (and my Boxster) I get these "races" often. I don't participate except in very rare cases when out on the open highway with non-existent traffic.
My Turbo (and my Boxster) get beat all the time in these races as I'm not racing. I accelerate smartly as is my style but I'm not racing. Some drivers though take this as a sign and takes off and of course reaches the finish line -- wherever the other driver has set it in his mind -- way ahead of my car.
I know how fast my cars are and how they match up with other cars. While there is the question of how well the drivers might match up I have driven long enough to know there's always a better driver.
There is too much at risk for my to engagement in very "race" offered so I don't bother.
However, I can assure you my stock but well maintained Turbo would walk away from your NA 996 would I choose to participate in a race such as you described.
If the thread does take an unexpected turn, is it fast in slow out...or the other way around.
Can you oversteer a thread? Understeer?
And WTF was that comment about jacking off a horse?
My '99 C2 says 2908 to 3048 in the book. Just took it to the scales and it came in at 3080lbs. I'm guessing the 18" wheels, sunroof, and full tank of gas account for a portion of the difference.
Exactly.
There's always a better driver in a faster car.
I once had a guy in an Aventador pull out behind me when I was in my CLA45 AMG. Just for fun, I launched hard (at speed) to briefly give him something to chase. I pulled to the side to let him pass once he caught up but, I mean, c'mon, even tweaked to 440hp, he's making almost twice the hp (at north of 700hp) with 3x the cylinders I've got! lol I had a similar experience with a guy in a Hellcat, too. I definitely surprised him but he's making 707hp from a 6.2l v8. I don't care how fat it (or its driver) is, that's crazy power against a 2l I4. Both drivers eventually pulled by and we exchanged a thumbs up -- it was all respectful and, FWIW, neither of them played stupidly in or near traffic and there were no crazy high speed runs. It was more a series of short sprints.
-Eric
I think with the 996.2 they started fibbing about the real world weights. At least your 996.1 is close to what the manual states. I believe they don't include a full tank of gas, but rather they use 20l or something like that to be consistent with all manufactures since they all have unique sized gas tanks.
The 996.1 is definitely lighter then the 996.2 but also chassis rigidity was improved in the 996.2 so that is probably the main reason for the weight gain.
Nah. It's the useless things like cup holders and a glovebox that they added.
No idea how any of you .2 owners can think you have a remotely pure driving experience with luxuries like that weighing you down...
i would say the 996 is maybe 60% of the 996TT. better brakes, better engine, more power, better suspension, dynamics, etc
2 totally different cars, 996t will walk a 996
And a GT-R will walk a 996TT. No matter how "bad" your ride is, someone can spend a little more and come up with something a little "badder".
The important thing is to figure out what you like and then just go enjoy it.
Those crappy TT's can't even beat a Nissan Maxima in a supermarket parking lot.
Mexican Guy In A Family Nissan Maxima Beats Turbo-Charged Porsche In A Race Like It's Nothing - YouTube
I had more people try to race me in my 996 C4S than I do in my 997 turbo. Maybe it's because the turbo is a cabriolet and it looks more like a weekend cruiser than the C4S coupe did. It's irrelevant though, because I'm reluctant to race anybody on a public road. There's too much risk.
As mentioned above, there's always somebody with a faster car.
Now that Trump is the Republican nominee, we won't see this combination of Maxima's assembled in Mexico AND Mexicans raping Porsche Turbo owners.
True, they even try to race me in my Corolla.
I've found that people with slower cars actually like to race more often. It's like they're thinking, "this guy thinks he's so fast but those cars really aren't as fast as they think..." Also, I think people who drive slow cars don't realize how slow their cars really are...or how fast a fast car really is.
See, and I always see those guys around cruising around at or near the speed limits. They may just be keenly aware they're targets for police.
Eric
I think you're right about that. I have a relative who thinks that their Honda Accord is a very fast car. I need to take that person for a ride in the turbo.
Based on the fart can to vehicle ratio, Civics and WRXs are the king of the hill here - in that order. Civic drivers will try to race anything. Even my old 60s Triumph...
As an aside (and sorry for the slight hijack) I saw a civic with so much camber on the rears the other day that I couldn't understand how the inner rims weren't rubbing. Blue plastidip wheels, lowered, gigantic fart can, faux carbon hood and the rest of the car a total wreck.
For the amount he'd wasted on bolt ons he could probably have had a decent car. Don't get it. I know taste is personal and all that, but SMH, just SMH.
For many of these obviously slower cars attempting to initiate a race, if the faster car takes the bait then they have already won. Not many believe their Honda is faster than a 911, but if they can goad a 911 into running then THAT is something worth telling their friends.
Wait, so in the Ricer Handbook, it states that it's considered a win when you lose a race to any obviously better/faster vehicle?
I need to go find the kid two streets over with the battered Scion and tell him he he's well past Rosberg this year.
They will see it differently in their head! The story will go something along the lines of how he beat the 911 off the line, and was ahead until the 911 barely passed him at 140 mph.
^ What he said. The ONLY reason I don't have a Subaru with a turbo the size of your head is that Mrs. Schnell thinks they're unforgivably ugly. Taking the fire roads up to our place in the mountains is a blast; doing it in a WRX or an old Legacy would be epic.
As the owner of a subaru with a turbo the size of 5CHN3LL's head, I can confirm this. My 996 is the quiet, reasonable, economical vehicle that gets good gas mileage. If I want to raise hell, I take the Subaru.
