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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWhat is an 02 cab 107k with a blown motor worth?
Leading reported evidence
Check coolant overflow and the oil
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I checked the coolant overflow and the oil on the dipstick and all colors and smells seemed normal.
Leading evidence: 'Check coolant overflow and the oil' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check clears' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I have checked most sites and fleabay with no solid results.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I only checked the tension at the top pulley in the dark.
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I think the real issue as pointed out on numerous posts it to have the engine thoroughly inspected before considering it a total loss.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I rebuilt the heads, checked for out of round cylinders, put all new timing chain, pads and guides, IMS, used rod set, had the crank welded and straightened, installed all new bearings, AOS and rings.
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I rebuilt the heads, checked for out of round cylinders, put all new timing chain, pads and guides, IMS, used rod set, had the crank welded and straightened, installed all new bearings, AOS and rings.
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Suggestion
I have no problem with anyone recommending a 20k RND engine or similar rebuild ,and under different circumstances I would have recommended the same thing.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
still not a bulletproof/ironclad/100% guarantee...as you may already know
I think mine puked a motor last night. No smoke or loss of fluids. Going 70mph and then a loss of power. Not much noise, but the radio was on until i noticed the loss of power.
I just don't think it's going to be good. I don't want to spend 10-20k for a used one. This makes me sick. It has the ln ims that was done about 22k miles ago.
i know their not worth much, but figured i would get a roundabout number.
Why so quick to write off the motor?
I think it's a little early to start circling the wagons and assuming the worst case scenario...
Get it to a shop.
The last service i had they said i was a quart low on oil. They added a quart and then an additive that some other indies put in. I have heard it here before but can't remember what it was. Would having too much fluid in there cause problems too?
$5-9k depending on options and condition.
Note - if there was intermix, get the cooling system cleaned out right now. Don't leave the oily mix in the cooling system or it will lower the value of the chassis a bunch. Open your cooling drain line hose at the bottom of the water pump and see what comes out. If it's oily you'll want to flush it with some kind of fuel/kero to attract the oil in the cooling path.
I think that range is fair. I'd offer you that in that range but I'm looking for a C2 coupe. Not sure but I don't think there is a big difference between the cab or coup in terms of price range.
I checked the coolant overflow and the oil on the dipstick and all colors and smells seemed normal.
I didn't get any lights, but i did get the drive the car to a shop warning.
Diagnosis is critical at this point. Do some searching on here to find out what to look for specifically. Or if Jake would pick up the phone he can go over the list in a few minutes. Know what to look for is pretty important to figure an accurate repair/rebuild price.
Hmm, no smoke, no loss of fluids, no noise. Car just stopped running. Could it be something as simple as a fuel pump failure? Normally it seems like they don't fail while the car is running - it seems like they keep a car from starting. But, a fuel pump failure is pretty common and it would meet your symptoms. Or it could be something else. Here's hoping for the best.
By instinct, i did try starting it after being stopped. The only thing i can compare it to is a toyota non-interference motor. When the ribbed part of the belt is worn off in spots and you try to start it. The gear just spins and makes a different noise compared to a bad starter.
The first word after "note -" is "if", which makes it a conditional expository, not a conclusion. Just something for the OP to check for which would possibly save him some bucks, and provide fodder for the a$$hats in the audience. Thanks for stepping up.
It'll be worth a lot more than you think assuming the alternator, fuel pump relay, fuel pump, etc. is the issue and not a blown motor. It's easy to get pessimistic around here, but "coasted gently to the shoulder with no horrendous noise or trail of oil" isn't the typical narrative of the blown M96.
One question - is it a manual or tiptronic? There have been situations where the tip goes into "limp" mode, which will result in the "drive car to shop" warning light to come on.
Let the shop figure out what it is and go from there. $**** it could be as simple as a failed fuel pump. Until you know exactly what happened there is no need to guess, it will not help in any way.
I believe I conjugated properly. Exposition - as opposed to argument - which is more in your wheelhouse(and the person to whom I replied).
Luv ya - mean it, have your people call my people and we'll do a lunch.
While we are forum guessing/diagnosing your car - does that mean it doesn't turn over, like in "locked up"....or the starter doesn't engage? Or it does turn over but doesn't start?
Yeah, I'm puzzled by the "turn over" terminology, plus the comments in post 16:
By instinct, i did try starting it after being stopped. The only thing i can compare it to is a toyota non-interference motor. When the ribbed part of the belt is worn off in spots and you try to start it. The gear just spins and makes a different noise compared to a bad starter.
I don't know if that means the starter did nothing, the starter zips like it's not engaged with the flywheel teeth, or other.
Sorry to hear your loss and hope you can get some good price for the roller. It's sad to see these engines continue to blow up despite our TLC to them.
Sorry to hear. Here's another bizarre idea. I know there's a couple people who put a smaller Boxster engine in and are driving around again. For all those ready to jump up my rectum, this is not a recommendation, but it's a way to keep the car on the road at somewhat lower performance and lower(reasonable?) cost.
If it's of interest, check ebay and some breakers yards for a Boxster engine of similar vintage.
I was wondering that as well. Google search yields that typical chain life is 40 - 100K. Symptoms include rough idling, labored engine, back fire. Others on RL seem to indicate their is audible rattling upon start up. Maybe someone can provide some more definitive indicators.
It seems like you need to open up the engine to replace. Which is confusing as I also read that it's a masterlink and you can connect to the old chain to the new one to feed it through - I'll be doing more reading later.
OP - sorry to hear
Wow, that sucks big time. Sorry to hear. Are you sure you don't want to re-engine your car? As a roller it's not going to be worth much. I went through a similar thing with mine about 2 years ago.Was offered $8K (but that's CDN dollars) for my 2004 coupe with 40K miles in great condition. My car and I are much happier these days!
I really didn't want to sink another 15k into this car. I would almost sell it at a loss than possibly have to go through this again. I'll ask the dealer what it's worth as a trade in now.........
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-996-...02206#viTabs_0
Might grab this up, and ship it to Raby for some love. Nothing is more costly than using it as a trade-in for a new(er) car. That's the worst solution. If you get a repl motor, and have it massaged by one of the 996 experts, that will bring the value up quite a bit. But - don't know what options you have, and if it's worth saving or not.
I can understand your reasons to just cut your losses. A replacement motor is big dollars and then it had to be installed. Possible leaks etc fixed. If you've lost the loving feeling sell it as is. Otherwise it will be more stress than it's worth and you'll never recoup your money anyway.
My 2 cents on this.
Unless 996 holds some significant sentimental value, replacing the motor in one once it goes BOOM is a fools bargain. 996 with running engine can be had for $15-$20k, to put an engine into one with a blown engine is....$12-$20k. From financial and pure logical perspective this makes no sense.
When running, OPs car was worth around $17-$20k. Dumping the car for $7k and using the "motor replacement money" to buy another car is best solution here. There are plenty of sports cars to be had for $20k that are younger, quicker, and faster than 996. SLK55, M3 (e46 and older e92), 370z nismo etc.
It's really not as bad as it sounds if it's the timing chains.(assuming the IMS is OK). IF the IMS is ok, and the engine had good oil pressure, did not use oil, had good power, no piston/cylinder scoring (bottom end knock), no smoking prior to timing chain failure, then the engine could be repaired by a top end rebuild. The timing chains ( the 2 long main chains) can be replaced using the masterlink style chains , without splitting the cases. Other parts needed would be heads reworked ( bent valves replaced probably up to 12) head gaskets , tube of loctite 5900, cam bolts, head bolts, top end seals, fluids ect. If the engine was in good shape before the timing chain failure, then a top end rebuild would be a cost effective solution.
I noticed you had mentioned a lifter noise prior to the failure, that could have been the start of the failure. A small piece of the failing lifter could have been sucked up by the scavenge pump and caused it to seize. The clearance inside the scavenge pump is so tight that it only takes a very tiny piece of metal to lock it up. Since the scavenge pump is driven by the timing chain , either the scavenge pump drive snaps off or the chain breaks. We just discussed this on another thread where I had mentioned my use of a .750 round magnet placed at the inlet of the scavenge pump for this reason. The magnet attracts any ferrous metal and keeps the scavenge pump from seizing ,this gives time to find and repair the failing lifter or cam or spring.
It is an interference motor, BUT he said he just cruising along. Normally when the engine is not at full song when the valves hit the pistons, it just bends the valves and the pistons are OK. If the engine is in full race mode when it happens it can not only bend the valves, but break the valve head off and send it through the piston.
On a non-interference motor there is a real good chance that not even the valves get bent. But even on a non-interference motor if the RPMS are high enough the valves can get bent , and even break the head off and send through the piston. The only difference is that it is a lot less likely to have any contact to bend the valves when running normal RPMS.
All good points but it won't be cheap still. If you diy, maybe. Keep in mind the engine already has 100k on it, are you really going to spend 6 to 7k to do a top end rebuild with labor?
Generally speaking, not true. I've seen valve crash on Ford, GM, VW, Audi, Fiat, Subaru, and a few other engines, and none of them have had piston damage bad enough to warrant replacement. There's some scarring, and usually slight impact damage, but it can be scuffed out and continue to use the existing pistons. No one knows for sure, but it's very rare to damage a piston bad by valve crash.
100k is not an issue if it has been properly maintained. While these engines have a multitude of abnormal failings, failing from normal wear or high mileage is not one of them. I;m seeing so many of these engines now with nearly 200k and some with over 200k. My 1999 996 3.4 has 162k only issue I had was the cracked head at 100k. Pulled the head had it repaired and put another 62k on it and just got back from a 1000 mile road trip this weekend , it ran like a top.
As far as cost of top end rebuild, rough estimate for parts would be @$1600 and labor to R&R engine and R&R heads would be @ 20-25 hours at 150hr would cost @ $3000-$3750 estimated on the high side. Of course if you DIY you would get out for under $1600.
The chain pads will wear. Rod bolts can fail (ask Cuda). IMS sprockets can slip. Heads can crack (less so in 3.6), cylinder bores become oval, valve seats can drop. Valve springs can fail. Cylinder walls can crack..To me, it makes a lot more sense to address all these all at the same time, as opposed to fixing them in a piece meal manner hence RND engines or similar full rebuild.
If you spend 6-7k and get it back running and then flip it (assuming someone is willng to take the risks of the repair), financially that may make sense. To hold it for long term, I don't know.
[QUOTE=Ahsai;13717943]The chain pads will wear. Rod bolts can fail (ask Cuda). IMS sprockets can slip. Heads can crack (less so in 3.6), cylinder bores become oval, valve seats can drop. Valve springs can fail. Cylinder walls can crack..To me, it makes a lot more sense to address all these all at the same time, as opposed to fixing them in a piece meal manner hence RND engines or similar full rebuild.
This is all true. I have no problem with anyone recommending a 20k RND engine or similar rebuild ,and under different circumstances I would have recommended the same thing. Having that kind of warranty on an M/96 engine is always a good thing.Or if the engine is going to be ran hard or tracked then good rods are a MUST. But in this case the OP expressed his reluctance to spend that kind of money, so assuming his short block is in good condition with average ovaling ect. a top end rebuild would be the frugal thing to do.I have 1 m/9601 with 162k and 1 m/9601 with 70k and both run equally well.
My wife laughs at me for wanting one. She thinks of them as a little matchbox that you pull back and let it go.
I truly want a TT in the future, but this does put a bad taste in my mouth or make me very hesitant to move forward.
I have the same dilemma and will be fixing my car for the following reasons:
1) Second hand engine = same potential problems
2) Another car = same potential problems
Fixing what I already have gives me peace of mind and I know what has been done. I cannot afford to repair it more than once, nor can I afford to buy the same problem again.
Currently with the exchange rate (based in Canada) a second hand engine with shipping and taxes is well into $10k unless I choose a high miles unit (makes no sense).
I'm hoping to have fixed the known issues with my engine and then drive it without fear of imminent engine death every time I go out for a spin.
I would at least do an inspection from the bottom (remove sump plate) and a borescope in the plug holes to see what's what before condemning the engine completely. Having said that, I saw the remains of a 996 engine that had a timing chain break at Jake Raby's and it was a very ugly and comprehensive mess.
Fingers crossed that the lack of significant noise indicates that less seized up rather than more. This happened to me in a BMW (interference engine) many years ago and I seem to recall some significant noise. My pistons nevertheless survived, so I had the top end rebuilt.
A new engine starts the clock all over again, and is still less $$ than buying a used one that may be days/weeks/months/years away from the same fate. If you love the car, go for it.
eh, depends what he wants. 997.2 is a much more modern car and the 9A1 is pretty damn solid.
6TT has some expensive issues. coolant tubes, 2nd gear popout, spoiler hydraulic failure, etc. First two are on the order of $5k, with about $2k for the spoiler.
Not a bad car, but the interior is just so dated compared to the newer stuff.
I would go with a 2010 - 2011 997.2 over a 2001 - 2002 996 TT. The only obvious perk I see with TT is the HP but I think 345 HP, 0-60 in 4.6 sec and 180 mph top speed should do the trick for most people. Everything else goes to the 10 years newer 997.2, interior is much better.
You don't care what you have to like at every minute you're driving the car? Interesting.
TT is great for speed, hell I have two of them. But the 7.2 is light years more developed than the 6tt.
The interior thing is of personal preference. I will get the odd comment form newer porsche guys saying they wished their interior looked like mine. I don't blame them, while mine is full of leather, theirs is all plastic looking.
It's funny what some people will offer. some are almost reasonable and some are stupid. I had one guy offer 3k after looking at it. All others were higher but most had no idea how much it was to repair/replace.
At least i can keep it at the shop for another month or so to beat around the bush. I still may replace or rebuild, but that depends on any other offers.
It doesn't seem like there are many motors available at the moment.
It's a tough situation both as a buyer and a seller of a non-running car. Lots of variables to work around to come to dollar value.
I hope I fell into the reasonable range, I am still interested and can close quick if you decide to part with it.
I know these things pop up from time to time just not when you're looking. I have checked most sites and fleabay with no solid results. A rebuilt one for 15-20k is way out of my pain tolerance.
So I had the exact same symptom as you and all it was, was a throttle body failure... Car shut off doing 80MPH on the interstate. Put a new throttle body on and the car was fine again.
Only noting this so people don't automatically jump to "my motor blew" when they see these threads
I wanted to share my experience. Just quickly reading these engine discussions can be intimidating for owners and those considering a purchase.
I picked up a 01 roller last year. PO said the car went bang, bang, bang, Bam! and a bunch of smoke. Engine locked up. He had it towed to his mechanic and was told the IMS went out. I found chocolate milk in the case, fresh oil in dripping out of the exhaust and brown coolant pouring out of the oil air separator. Long story short, I found that the #2 connecting rod bolt had loosened, spinning the rod bearing then hit the cradle and causing a mechanical interference. A freeze plug in the head had gotten loose from the vibration and allowed coolant to flush into the case thus causing intermix, AOS also failed and flooded the intake allowing oil to enter into the combustion chamber and then caused hydrolock on cylinder #1 bending the connecting rod. Overall, no cylinder scoring, no valve to piston interference and IMS was perfect. I rebuilt the heads, checked for out of round cylinders, put all new timing chain, pads and guides, IMS, used rod set, had the crank welded and straightened, installed all new bearings, AOS and rings. Total cost about $3k in machining and materials and did the assembly and installation myself.
I think the real issue as pointed out on numerous posts it to have the engine thoroughly inspected before considering it a total loss.
I have put out the bat signal on another motor. I would assume that i won't get 8-8500 for the roller, so i might as well get it fixed. I can let it sit for a couple weeks until i get a clear head about what i want to do.
One important consideration, especially for a roller, is that a Cab won't likely become a race or track day car. From this perspective (and specifically as it relates to the OP's situation) his Cab is worth less to most buyers.
i have a buyer coming with a check today for 8k. I had a lot of interest and four people that i need to send e-mails to in case the guy doesn't show up.
I actually had to ask for a manager, the teller couldn't quite grasp concept that the check I was depositing might be bad.
ETA: and I did wait a few days to verify it cleared.
Sold! I'm not happy but at least this is one thing i don't have to deal with. If this was later in life, i might have had more time to deal with it on a long term level.
