Need some advice - "affordable" repair M96 (donor motor?)

So I'm really pretty new to the P-world. I got a 2003 C4 in nice shape about a year ago and decided to do my 1st DE this fall. It was really awesome� until I got a funny shudder from the engine and the car died on the track. Still not sure exactly what caused it/what went wrong� D-chunk? AOS fail? But at any rate, I have piston chunks in the pan. I am aware this is very NOT good and means the engine I have probably cannot be rebuilt. I am trying to figure out how to fix this thing that I'm still paying on, and I'm close to working out a financial solution (appears it will cost more than the car), but I'm still going to need to source a donor engine, then do LNE nickies, etc (prob a 3.8 or 4.0 build). I've contacted LA dismantlers, and have a rough idea what a pulled engine will run. Not cheap. I'm leery of buying one on ebay. I guess I'm hoping someone here may have a suggestion that will get me back up & running and able to do DE's again with relative security that my engine isn't going to be likely to grenade again. Suggestions�?

I have read soo many threads from "Refreshed" engine builds costing $8k to brand new rebuilt motors costing $25k... I will be of no help in this thread, but many people will chime in I am sure

I'm planning to try to do it right. I've spoken with Jake Raby via email and two other experienced M96 builders who are local. I'm leaning with staying local. But I'm still probably at your high number. Just waiting on the second mortgage...

You have lots of options from as you point out ebay, some warranty with someone like LA dismantlers to MB Motorsports to RND to Raby Engines. These are in order of cost and potentially quality. Its also possible to get a short block from porsche, but there is a fairly high core charge so if your engine is toast, you won't get much back. I have been looking at options myself recently, as I have a similar dilemma to you, but no piston remains on my oil pan, just a filter full of shrapnel and a lovely "lifter tick noise". Good luck with your search. +1 on second mortgage!!

First of all, I hope you are joking about the financials. If you had the car since new I could understand risking your finances to save something that likely had a lot of meaning, but a 2nd mortgage for a car that you haven't had that long? Just doesn't make sense. I understand you have a loan on it (sorry, I don't get people buying cars this old with a loan. Again, just doesn't make sense), but you really need to consider cutting your losses on this one and getting another when your finances allow. Preaching over $8-10k is what you should expect for a donor motor. If you are already talking to Jake I'm sure he can give you the best advise as to what to look out for. I would assume, however, that if you are going to do a full F6I style rebuild and bump the displacement that the particulars of the donor are less important than if you were just going to slap it in as is and go. You can probably go as far as picking up someone's bore scored motor at a discount actually. Best thing to do is work with whomever is going to so the build for you. They can guide you as to what's needed or may even take car of finding it for you.

I'm confused. Why do you need a donor motor again? Is that what Jake told you? If not, you need to talk to him first. He replaces such a high percentage of the components with his builds that you really don't have to much motor left to use it.

"affordable" donor motor and a grenaded Porsche 996....these are mutually exclusive scenarios

Quotes source posts: 13727524, 13727531

Putting a 25K motor into a 25-30K car doesn't make sense to me. I would drop in something cheap and drive it like I stole it.

You need to have usable heads and a block that is intact passed the cylinders too. If he has piston chunks then the heads are damaged for sure.

Quotes source post: 13728007

What's you definition of cheap? Least expensive option would be to drop in a 2.5L engine.

Quotes source post: 13727531

Talk to Marco at TLG in North Hollywood. He has local engine rebuild sources that sound very very good. [phone removed]. Long time second generation Porsche shop that also build and races them. From the numbers I've heard, he will offer a couple of choice that might work for you. I'm seeing him tomorrow morning for a tech inspection for a DE event.

Remove the engine and cut a large hole in the floorboard.

Next gen, pedal power:

Quotes source post: 13727547

Thanks, Gnat - that's probably the best advice I can get. I agree - doesn't make a whole lotta sense to put so much into a car that's worth about what I owe. The other option is dump about the same amount on the loan and sell it for scrap. In the end, one way I come out with a way too expensive 996 that hopefully will be a hoot to drive and will DE quite well. The other way, I have no more payments but no more car. Either way financially it's a bad scenario. In hindsight I guess you could say I never should have bought the car. But it's too late now and I'm just trying to sort out what gets me to the best end result. The car's in excellent shape for an 03 - so I'm inclined to try to fix it. Scrap value with a blown engine even on a really nice 996 is very little comparatively.

Dump the car for scrap, use the funds you get for the chassis to pay down the loan. Then pay-off the remaining balance and move on. You seem to already see that buying the 996 on credit was a bad decision. Getting a loan for a motor would be an even worse decision. Based on your posts you will be looking for $35k-$40k combined loan on the car valued at $25k on a good day if you choose to finance the motor replacement.

Aw heck, buy a used motor for $9k and spend $4k to have it installed and do the WYAIT stuff. Then don't look back and enjoy the car. You probably won't have another major repair for a couple of years because a lot of the stuff that breaks will be changed during the engine swap. Figure you're gonna spend $3k a year on that stuff that would've broken anyway and it's a net $7k loss after 2 years. The Porsche gods aren't likely to hit you with another catastrophic failure on the same car, so go for it. It's just numbers in a bank account in the end anyway.

Put an LS3 in it and "fergit" about failures!

Quotes source post: 13728501

Sorry for your loss and I'm with Kalash on this one. Porsche, m96, tracks....none of the above is cheap. ​​​If you really need to get it back on the road, spend no more than $15k all in because it's unlikely you can recoup any amount beyond that when it's time to sell the car. Also, m96 won't be an affordable platform for tracking because to make it track worthy, you need quite a few upgrades during a rebuild. I know lots of ppl track the stock engine but usually those ppl can also afford rebuilding the engine if something breaks.

Quotes source post: 13727484

I have a good case with a scored cylinder & a complete 3.6L engine if you are looking for something to rebuild. Located in OC CA.

Even 25 grand on a motor you still have more car than most on the road... If mine goes again given the price of another 911 I would hot rod the **** out of my current car....and still be ahead money wise.

I wonder if you could purchase a Boxster and put that engine in your 996. You can purchase Boxsters all day long for under $9,000. Swap the engine then sell the leftover Boxster parts. Find a boxster that has NOT had the IMSB replaced, that way you can replace the IMSB if you want to during the swap and you will know exactly what the condition of the original bearing was. I myself would never invest anything over $12k in an engine solution for a 996 with current values where they stand today. I would sell my 996 for what it's worth with no engine ($5k) add that to the minimum cost of a quality rebuild ($15k) and put the $20k toward a 997.2 The cost of these various 996 engine bomb solutions are all bad options. It seems crazy to me that I can purchase a brand new 2017 Ford Mustang GT (435 HP engine; 400 ft torque) for $32,000 and to get my engine repaired I have to spend $25k if I really want it done right. I'm not saying a Ford is a Porsche, it's not, but damn it sure seems to be a better value.

but then you're driving a mustang.

all joking aside, if you dont mind the haters, seriously drop in an LS motor. Total cost is 10-12k assuming you can install it your self. Renegade makes a kit just for this.

Quotes source post: 13729349

Yeah! Then you can sell it on TV for upwards of $60k!

If you bought your car with the thought of enjoying it for years, then keeping the car and dealing with the engine is not a bad choice. In fact it is a good choice. Over the years the money will come back to you in driving pleasure...perhaps even more so with an engine that you know has all the issues taken care of. Do not worry about resale value...that isn't why any enthusiast bought a 996 or a 993 or any other Porsche. As for tracking the 996...it is a better basic car for tracking than the 997.1. The 997.1 IMS bearing solution was geared toward better street use and it cannot be retro-fitted. The 996 has better potential in that regard. Ask Tony Callis down at Renn Sport. The 996 with a IMS bearing fix, a deep sump oil pan and baffles, can be a lot of fun on the track and a great daily driver for hundreds of thousands of miles. Read the high mileage threads. You should think about what were your original thoughts when you bought your car. You've suffered a financial loss, but it is possible to recover from that and enjoy the car that you dreamed of owning. Give yourself a business plan on how the years of future ownership can be paid for and enjoyed. Don't turn a bad break into a tragedy by throwing the baby out with the bath water. Good luck.

Quotes source post: 13729349

Yep! That will be my plan if/when. I was not joking!

Putting a $15k-$20k motor in my $20,000 car wouldn't bother me.... because as GNR996 said... it will still out perform most any other car and I would keep it literally for its entire life of the new engine. My 996 isn't going anywhere... Even when I buy a nicer/newer one in the future. I will keep the 996. I am not going to sell a car that I dumped a bunch of money into to restore it back to good condition and then sell it for all my maintenance/upgrade costs

People never can afford to do it right.... But somehow they think they can afford to do it twice.

Quotes source post: 13730515

Great comment...you should put that on a tee shirt...I'd buy one because I've often been guilty of making that mistake.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. Extra thanks for those who give me hope in going forward with this project. These are pretty amazing cars. I want to continue in the P-world, and I really like *this* car. It's overall in excellent shape interior & exterior. Heck even that damn (worthless) cup holder works. I do expect to keep it if I am able to swing fixing it - thus the reason why I want to try to fix it right. (true words from Flat6 - sure don't want to fix it twice) Yeah in hindsight and certainly from a logical financial standpoint I never should have bought it nor tracked it at the DE, but I can honestly say I don't regret it. I'd regret it more if I never did it.

Quotes source post: 13736566

I can get behind that. I've done plenty of stupid stuff (including selling stock to buy the 996 new around 25 ), but there is little I honestly regret. As long as you are aware of and accept the consequences of your actions, go for it Life is too short and full of too much BS. Live it how you want and use "mistakes" to grow and learn. As long as you are doing the driving and being an active participant, I think life generally works out OK. It's when you constantly worry or follow someone else's path that things like to go pear shaped.

Other options: http://www.vertexauto.com/Flag/Flag0...20Engines.aspx

Quotes source post: 13736621

$7K for the 2.5L rebuild and $12K for the 3.4L rebuild!!! The two are essentially the same engine, why the huge premium?

Quotes source post: 13736585

+1 @Jake- Would two $9k installments over a 12 month period be adequate to cover an elective M96 3.8 or 4.0 nickies performance street rebuild? If you'd rather talk in person and keep it off the boards I can go that route. I've resisted the urge to ask this question at least once a week

Quotes source post: 13738077

My guess is supply vs. demand... 3.4 engines are simply harder to find.

Quotes source post: 13738078

We always break payments into thirds. It's easy. 1/3 of the proposed total of the engine is due at the time of engagement, another 1/3 is due at the mid term point which is usually 6 months from engagement, and the final 1/3 is due at the end of the processes, prior to vehicle shipping. This helps people, and it helps us, too. It balances out cash flow, and it makes my engine easier to acquire without having to use credit cards, or loans. Of course, all of this is set forth in my written proposal with exact dates, along with exact costs that never change once the proposal is executed. This is the beauty of an elective build, as there are no variables and costs are absolutely known up front. We handle failed engines the same way, except there's six components that have a question mark beside them, as they are the only 6 major parts that we reuse. This means they do present a variable to the bottom line cost of the engine. All that said, if I build a 2.5 engine, it costs exactly the same as any 996 engine, or, for that matter, a 997 Carrera S engine. Stage 1 engines, and Stage 2 engines all cost the same, no matter what car they go into, or what size they were.