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YOUR RESEARCHWell, it wasnt the IMS....
Leading reported evidence
Check oil
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I in fact checked the oil before that session as well.
Leading evidence: 'Check oil' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check oil' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I wouldn�t expect a properly installed wrist pin clip to work loose without a secondary failure in any case...
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Suggestion · Original poster
I simply do not have the funds to undertake this level of repair right now.
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Suggestion
Most of US companies already fled America because of the cost of running a business.
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Suggestion · Original poster
As noted before, this motor saw it's full use since 1000 miles on the odometer with countless track days on R compound rubber, daily driver duty, fun car, road trip car, Home Depot truck car, etc.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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The circlip holding the wrist pin on one piston came off. Broke the piston rod and the crank.
Another piston was working itself loose.
Only thing salvagable are the heads. ALL the valves are bent.
He did note that it is unusual for the clips to fail. The clips were found in the oil pan.
That's a lot of blue in the last pic. Are you sure the con rod bearing didn't spin and cause the other problems afterwards? Something has to be misaligned to pound out the clips.
Of course, one would never know the actual sequence of events but the one thing we DO know is that it's not a typical failure that I've read posts about.
Either way though, in the end it doesn't matter because it's not like one can verify and villify the usual suspects and proceed to beat oneself up thinking that I could have, should have given the knowledge about things like IMS bearings.
As noted before, this motor saw it's full use since 1000 miles on the odometer with countless track days on R compound rubber, daily driver duty, fun car, road trip car, Home Depot truck car, etc. At 166k miles, it was no spring chicken.
At least there's no question as to what went wrong. I can always appreciate some good engine carnage pictures and you have certainly provided. Best of luck getting things put back together! Sounds like you got your money's worth out of that motor and I'm sure once it's running again you'll get plenty more miles out of the car.
Given the timing and my duties to pay taxes, the plan is to regroup and at some point, find another engine. Nothing is salvagable....maybe some auxiliies but really, one would want to get some new components on it too.
I simply do not have the funds to undertake this level of repair right now. The car will sit dormant sans engine in the garage to rise up at a later time. Meanwhile, I will look for a good donor engine.
Maybe I'll hit the lottery and get a GT3 engine implanted and wind up with the best of both worlds. A smooth wide body without the fender ducting and a GT NA motor. The rest of the car is dead reliable so I don't want to introduce new failure and unknowns.
Sorry to hear the engine cant be rebuilt. Plenty of options out there and if the heads are ok Im sure you could find a buyer. Good luck getting the bus back in fighting shape.
OP stated the heads were salvageable. I'm not sure how considering the failed cylinder and carnage. I had a d chunked cylinder myself which required replacing.
There is a huge difference between OK and Salvageable. You said OK. OK is ready to bolt on. A head with bent valves needs a good look at the guides too and often need replacing, this requires valve seat re cutting and of course new valves........and guide seals too. Soooooo as you can see......
I know what I said. "Ok" is not ready for bolt on nor did I imply that is was. But I cant wait to hear you go on and on about your definition of ok vs. salvageable....
so... then you can ask me if I give **** about your interpretation.
Nice backpadling. I don't care what your interpretation is either but those that know as little, or less than you, will think the heads are fine. But please tell me, what does "OK" means to you??
Am I?
"Sorry to hear the engine cant be rebuilt. Plenty of options out there and
if the heads are ok Im sure you could find a buyer
. Good luck getting the bus back in fighting shape."
A failed rod cap is not characteristic of wrist pin clip failure.. This leads me to believe that the clips were dislodged by trauma, as secondary, collateral damage.
I see the rod cap in the picture pretty clearly. Do you have more photos of the post- mortem?
Well guess nothing is salvagable. I got the car towed home and put in the garage yesterday. Looked at the box of parts and engine components, so additional pics.
Crankshaft is broken as in half, all valves bent as previously stated so no head salvage, camshafts are hit, block is cracked....the list goes on....
I didn't bother to try to ascertain what actually went on because everything is broken so it would be a waste of time trying to do a forensics job. It really doesn't matter but thought some additional pics would be interesting to some here.
Items found in the oil pan
You know, I would love to put the Raby engine in it. I realize that he doesn't warranty the engine if it goes on track and I don't blame him. I would imagine that he builds them well but no one warrants anything if you put it to track duty.
However, my biggest stumbling block is the cost. I subscribe to the quality costs money equation (I am a designer so i'm always bitching about how people don't value design). But I also have to consider that even if his engine build is solid, what if I have an accident. Then the car is worthless pretty much again.
If I source an engine from a crashed car, it is an unknown so I would have to do a tear down anyway and upgrade all the parts. Since NOTHING is salvageable off this engine, I have to consider that I need to get all the ancillary parts which add up (water pump, hoses, Motorsport AOS, etc. So tack on another 5k minimum on top of the whatever engine)
Really a tough place to be in. It's painful to be emotionally attached to this car. It's like the car is your first true love and it just filed divorce papers.
I love the pure design of this car (why I bought it over the C2 which I went in to buy in the first place). I love the new Caymans but damn, that's a rich price point. And used porsches? Again with the dice roll.
However, my biggest stumbling block is the cost. I subscribe to the quality costs money equation (I am a designer so i'm always bitching about how people don't value design).
But I also have to consider that even if his engine build is solid, what if I have an accident. Then the car is worthless pretty much again.
Really a tough place to be in. It's painful to be emotionally attached to this car. It's like the car is your first true love and it just filed divorce papers.
I love the pure design of this car (why I bought it over the C2 which I went in to buy in the first place). I love the new Caymans but damn, that's a rich price point. And used porsches? Again with the dice roll.[/QUOTE]
That's the beauty of investing in upgrading your engine, as most of us realize the value is in the engine. If you have a accident & the 996 is totaled you buy it from Ins. co & either transfer YOUR engine to next 996 or sell it. Usually the engine is not damaged unless someone rearends you very hard, in which case you show your receipts & make them pay!
Personally I think you have the best looking 996,but i may be prejudice for the color.
To jyoteen, yeah I hear you. The thing is even a quality rebuild for a DD will be expensive, let alone a track ready version. The new parts are just too damn expensive from Porsche and sleeving, imsb, and head work all add up fast.
Btw, the oil pan looks like there was no oil in it in your photo. Was it wiped down?
Damn, the carnage looked like you were in top of 3rd gear and downshifted to first or something like that.
Weigh all your options and be patient until something comes up. There's always things popping out of the woodwork at various times. You just have to keep your eyes open and wait for it.
My eyeball engineering guess would be that the engine ran out of oil at high RPMs and at least one con rod bearing spun until it welded itself to the crank. Then, the rod broke and the rest is history. The blue rod cap is what I based my guess on. One of the thrust bearings look good so if the other one looked the same, crank end play wasn't the problem.
This is tough situation to be in, since nothing is usable from the original long block. Either you sell it as-is for a few grand of at least buy a used engine but neither of them will be a cheap exercise.
I'm sure you checked oil before the session. If you look at the boss of the drain plug, you'll see that it's raised so you would expect some residual oil at the edge after you drain the oil. It's almost like someone cleaned up the oil pan first, then dump all those parts onto it. I'm not trying to build a conspiracy theory. It just looks odd to me if you tell me that's how it looked when it was dropped from the engine.
For the crankshaft longitudinal thrust shim to be found in the sump, generally you have a two piece crankshaft as an added trophy.. Thats a real colorful failure every time..
That's going the real big money route; there are other options out there. I believe there was a vendor selling rebuilt motors here in the 10-12k range.
It's a pretty car with some nice upgrades, I don't think there would be any regrets, as long as he's not feeling the itch for something newer.
Yes, because you do everything in US where you have crazy expensive cost for everything. It's because of high cost of maintaining a shop, machine shop, etc...High taxes, insurance cost, high property cost dictates the price you pay for any service or part. This is ridiculous because quality is not necessarily always adequate to cost of products sold. Skilled worker has to make min $25/h -up, it all adds up...This is why we do everything in Poland where I can keep my cost very low and offer my customers great quality for the best value. We also plan to offer bigger bore options due to high customer demand. Cost difference will be only on parts (pistons and connection rods), we assume it won't cost more than 15k which puts us a lot lower than other competitors offering same product. Our US location is focused solely on sales instead of repairs, it makes no sense here with US prices and quality. For example: machine shop in Florida charges $95/hour where in Chicago its $175/hour. Its because same size shop pays $40k in property taxes in Illinois and $10k in Florida. In Poland property tax is basically symbolic, qualified worker makes 4x less than in US. This exact fact helps me keep my cost down and lets my crew spend a lot more time to make sure finished engine is up to highest standards. If anyone questions polish quality of work i propose to disassemble a new Porsche and see where all parts are made. Large % of those parts is made in Poland because its cheaper for German companies. Most of US companies already fled America because of the cost of running a business. Fact is if you want to compete in today's global economy you have to keep your cost to minimum with maximum quality. Fyi, we offer fully rebuilt motors, not refreshed, same quality as our US competitors.
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