96 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHPPI results: please comment
Reported or suspected cause
rcpo's car and said he was also dui
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
MP realized it was the RCPO's car and said he was also DUI.
Leading evidence: 'rcpo's car and said he was also dui' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'rcpo's car and said he was also dui' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check brakes and tires' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I use 6th very rarely and I tend to drive my 4s pretty hard and fast.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
we check brakes and tires for wear and tear and evaluate life.
Check brakes, suspension, alternator, coolant system and other wear items
Suggestion or failed attempt
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Looks like folks have covered what you listed, but did the shop check brakes, suspension, alternator, coolant system and other wear items?
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
One thing that I always bugged me about "proper" PPIs though, specifically dropping the sump and cutting open the filter to check for debris.
Inspect suspension, chassis, fuel system and drive train
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
We put the vehicle on a lift and fully inspect the suspension, chassis, fuel system and drive train for any leaks, damage wear and tear and anything out of character .
Inspect unless it was done by the selling dealership
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The most important things to look at weren't done or requested to be done...I doubt they'll want to go back out to do more PPI inspecting unless it was done by the selling dealership?
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
96 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T174436Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Considering a 2003 996 C2. Here is the initial report from the mechanic that did the PPI:
So over all the car is pretty clean. There were 2 buttons on the center console that had pushed in, we retrieved them and put back together. No issue.
The radio had a blown fuse now turns on but no audio. Needs an amp. Dealership will be resolving this.
Foam in ac vents is coming apart,, very normal for these cars not an issue.
Strut on rear deck lid is not holding.
The engine air oil separator is leaking. Some oil is pooing in the intake and slight external oil leak from it. Recommend new set of plugs with it .
Tries 8/32
Brakes at 7/32
Overall nice car.
Anything here to make me bail on the purchase?
The AOS is the glaring issue there, everything else seems minor. The AOS is a relatively cheap part but can be expensive to replace depending on what the labor rates are and how they bill it.
Nothing here to cause you to bail, but I wonder whether this PPI is thorough enough. More experienced owners will probably chime in, but I would think at minimum you'd want to get a look at the oil to see if there if there's anything in there that shouldn't be (metal, plastic, etc.).
AOS is super common on these, so seeing that isn't very surprising. If you like the car, you might be able to negotiate the price a bit lower to cover the cost of that since it's a fairly labor-intensive repair (not necessarily difficult, just takes a lot of time).
Are you repaired to buy this car and put another $5K (roughly) into it? A much more thorough PPI should be done on these cars in my opinion but few will even go that deep into it.
I would not drive it that far unless the AOS was changed first.
How many miles are on the car? If they are recommending replacing the plugs, you may be due for a major service and that will cost you a few bucks.
I just went through this myself not too long ago. If they do a good job, they will find stuff. Its not a cause for bailing, but you should try to negotiate the price down to reflect the cost of the repairs. I'm not sure what other people experienced, but I budgeted about $4000 of immediate maintenance including IMS replacement and I was pretty close.
56K miles
Here's the carfax:
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...162&source=BUP
(sorry; looks like you can only view it from the car listing page, which is no longer available)
Yeah, so you are coming up on your 60,000 mile service. I had the same experience. If this is a tip, then they will have to drop the motor to do the IMS. At that point, I just went ahead and had them do the 60K service (plugs, etc.) because the engine was out and it doesn't take much time. I also had them replace the AOS, water pump and thermostat while they were at it. You save on labor, not parts obviously.
Price will determine thumbs up or down for me - but I can tell you pretty much all of them will have little things need doing. Best to fix a failing AOS than a failed AOS. If the price is right this wouldn't scare me away.
$25.5K
Would provide a link to images, but the dealership has taken it down until I decide if I want it or not.
Here is the original thread I started on the car:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...is-carfax.html
They had it listed at $26.5K. $25.5K is the negotiated price.
I may be able to get them to pay for a new AOS, but there's no way they're gonna drop to anything near $23K.
Yes, this is the car near DC.
Compare to this one also asking $25,500, with a large number of meaningful and tasteful upgrades including IMSB and AOS done, very good maintenance record. (in LA unfortunately if you are on the east coast).
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/...899213838.html
BUFF, who went AWOL listening to ELO while driving with OPP. Then, was SOL when the MP him pulled over for a smokin' AOS. MP realized it was the RCPO's car and said he was also DUI. BUFF denied it, but the MP was like BFP. Dude was like a DAT. MP like, you must be FNG? GTFO!, MP Shouted. MP strapped BUFF naked to the roll bar of the jeep and RTB... PFA!!!
Moral of the story, fix the AOS before it smokes.
If this is the extent of the report, the car is either in amazing shape or the mechanic didn't really do anything I'd consider overwhelmingly useful for a 996 PPI.
"The oil pan showed no evidence of being recently dropped. It was clean and free of any debris" - stuff like that is what I'd like to see on a PPI report. Anything less I can just do myself with a Durametric, a mirror, and an hour...
Would you mind explaining why, please? There aren't any error codes or CEL.
For logistical reasons, it would be preferred to use a shop that is local to me, and not where the car sits today.
Thanks.
Looks like folks have covered what you listed, but did the shop check brakes, suspension, alternator, coolant system and other wear items? Those could easily total another $4k (if you do the work yourself). Not trying to scare you off, but I�d want to know the condition of all aspects of the car to have better idea of what you�re getting into. I�m just a tick over $11k in parts alone in bringing a car I bought up to speed given the PPI I paid for was not as thorough as it should have been. Lesson learned on my part.
it hasnt happened to me, but from reading this forum i think you dont get any warning when the AOS is going to fail. it just fails and you get horrible noise and cloud of white smoke, with more damage to follow.
i'm sure the experts will go into detail shortly.
Without any checking for the IMS damage by dropping the oil pan, and cutting the oil filter, the PPI is basically useless. All this cosmetic shilt takes 20 minutes to verify. Waste of PPI time. ***** and trim... pfft.
Because it will fail, leaving you stranded at best or causing serious damage to your motor at worst! I just went through this last month.
I posted this gem in your other thread, did you look at it?
https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...877514266.html
I would seriously give this car a close look before you commit to the DC car!
Here is how the PPI was initially described to me:
we test drive the vehicle , we go through all features and functions of the car. Hook up a scanner to check the fault memories of all control modules to see if any thing is stored. We put the vehicle on a lift and fully inspect the suspension, chassis, fuel system and drive train for any leaks, damage wear and tear and anything out of character . we check brakes and tires for wear and tear and evaluate life.
I get the impression the tech knows these cars pretty well, but it's obviously not at the CPO level.
But do sellers agree to dropping oil pans and cutting open filters? To start wrenching on a car seems invasive. And on top of the costs for doing the PPI, you are then paying for the work plus a new oil filter and new oil. Cheaper than buying a 911 with a failed bearing, of course, but still I'm not sure how many PPIs really go that far,
Thats great, but did they report back their findings? What % is the alternator currently charging at? What mill thickness are all four rotors? Compression check of the cooling system for leaks pass the test. Not being difficult, this is the data you paid for with a PPI on the cheap side. Pay more and get the cylinders scoped for boring and drop the oil pan to investigate further the overall health of the motor. You only get one chance to obtain this data before buying. After, and it�s gonna cost $$$ to make right. I did at least know a clutch was needed and got $2500 knocked offf the purchase price because of it and a few other repairs that were needed. Good luck, I do hope it all works out as these are fantastic cars for what they sell for. But they can be a handful to own if ya get a needy one.
The most important things to look at weren't done or requested to be done...I doubt they'll want to go back out to do more PPI inspecting unless it was done by the selling dealership?
Did they even check for over-revs?
Over-rev report is part of the DME dump, wouldn't show up on a simple code scanner. This can be read with PIWIS, Durametric, or other Porsche diagnostic tool. Certain other generic scanners (like the Foxwell, I believe,) can read the DME data as well...
Long story short - it's usually included, and if it wasn't, should be something you can request for free. Ideally it would look like this:
Range 1: XX (
some number
.)
Range 2: 0
You don't want any Range 2.
Further info from the tech that did the PPI:
No debris in the oil filter.
The air oil separator should be replaced yes it could cause a Check engine light eventually (it wont leave you on the side of the road )
The brakes and tires are in good condition and do not need replacement. 8/32 is basically a brand new tire. They are date coded 2018 ( they are Sumitomo a cheaper tire ) I believe they have been sitting a little bit slight vibration at highway speeds.
The car drives well no issues.
There is no leak from the Rear main seal.
I will ask the dealership if they can give me overrev data. Thanks everybody!
It's not something that would prevent you from driving the car home - however - trust us when we say you don't want to dig your way out of a blown AOS while in the middle of nowhere. If the AOS is already exhibiting signs of failure then it's kind of a no brainer to me...
I personally would be paranoid on the 1000 miles home with a failing aos and original imsb. Wouldn't be fun at all.
That's why I shipped mine home and had imsb, aos and clutch done by my local shop in case I needed to use any warranty on the parts and service.
Hope it works out!
the ims on a 99 i wouldn't be to worried, but i to would address the aos, if you get stuck in some hickville little town you could be there for days with Cletus and his wife / sister lol
no offense to anyone named Cletus
The dealership says they will replace the AOS at their expense.
So, that would be taken care of in VA, then I would drive the car home to have the clutch/IMS/DMS done.
Any reason not to proceed?
Lol, I think he has to go through West Virginia too> "Deliverance" country!
I see no reason not to, make sure they use Porsche parts and not after market, pay for a plug change too. Get AAA and hit the road!
With any luck I'll be buying a plane ticket tomorrow.
If this happens, I'll be asking for route suggestions. I've never driven through that part of the country (West Virginia, southern Ohio).
I suggest you start mapping routes, hotels and restaurants etc. Find out if any of us (not me) will be near by (state to state) in case you need help. Get the car, eat a big meal then go to Walmart and get cooler stocked up for a road trip! This should be a fun trip...Keep us posted.
The only one I bought, I insisted. The filter is a wear-use item. Oil pan R&R is a common procedure, and if the seller says it's too invasive, well so be it. Next.
I've seen soooooo many threads that start out; 'Well, I just bought this car, and it has a ticking sound. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong?' When I sold my car, I offered to pull the pan and have it looked at. I even brought a tube of the sealant to replace. The buyer felt that my willingness(including the pan sealant) to drop the pan was good enough for him, and we just cut in the filter. He was happy as I already had the IMSB replaced.
I don't care if few, or none of the PPIs go that far. I did, and I'm glad for it.
Car is a 2003, so single row. Low mileage + single row + long distance drive + moderate cold climate(not MN cold, but not AZ warm either) history.
There's some risk here. Price is no bargain, but if the rest of the car checks out, it may be a fair price. AOS leakage is no surprise either. Get the over-rev info. See if they will give a month/3000 mile used car power train warranty(if it is a Porsche or high end dealer). Ask for it anyway.
Signed
Cletus. (lolz)
Just found this thread.
Since the dealership is fixing the AOS I would also pay to have them do plugs at this time "while they're in there".
If its in/near DC, theres a shop called Performance Autosport that does fantastic Porsche work. I've been meaning to take mine down there for them to give it a once over.
Unlike you, I bought mine without any history or a PPI and i've been picking up the pieces ever since but its been very rewarding so far.
Here is the message I received from the tech that did the PPI when I asked for over rev data:
I have checked again with both my scanners, neither read over rev data on this car. I have read it on many other Porsches. But its not listed for this car.
I've asked for clarification...anybody care to interpret that comment? Could it just be missing?
Received clarification:
I don’t have a factory Porsche tester so we cant pull the engineering data. On some of these it’s a status you can read through status request. This one is not so I cannot see it.
Went to Marietta College in the late 60s early 70s. Had a 1960 Bug-Eye Sprite that I drove on Rte. 26 numerous times many years ago. Highly recommend your suggestion. OP I think you have done your due diligence regarding your Porsche purchase, have fun driving it home and share your story.
I don't really have any suggestions since I've only done it once but I picked up a car and drove through Ohio/West Virginia as part of a 750 mile trip home. WV was strikingly beautiful.
I let Waze direct my route and I ended up on some backroads (I'm guessing to get me around some traffic) and found myself on some curvy roads with absolutely no other traffic. It was like a dream. I didn't push it
too
hard because I was still getting a feel for the car but I would definitely call it spiritied. Said it before on here but it was about a 10 hour drive and one of the best solo trips I've ever done.
Judging by the "report" i'd say that "ppi" is totally inadequate. How much did you pay? If it's any more than $250 you got ripped off... If it was $250 or less, you got what you paid for. Caveat Emptor...
Lol, they are a young company, my son has dealt with them and spoke highly of them. They should have the tech equipment to service and diagnose an older Porsche one would think...
He's in the area if you need a set of eyes on it.
^^Yup...exactly what I figured. Basically the mechanic did a quick visual "once over" and noted the most obvious stuff that jumped out at him. Once again, you got what you paid for, not a proper "PPI" which would cost you closer to $1k (most likely around $750). Please don't take this as an attack on you - it's not. More-so on the "mechanic" that sees dollar signs, and makes $200 for a 1/2 hr. of his time (sounds more like lawyers rates to me). The problem is, you get "peace of mind" and think everything is great, when in reality there very well could be some serious problems lurking (like that simple AOS leak - if your AOS goes south while you're driving it may well do serious damage to your engine).
x2. I don't think they have much experience with the 996. I was alarmed when they advised a 1000 mile road trip with a failing AOS. I'm sure they can get the AOS job done but I'd be leery of anything deeper than that.
Is LOCO also who's selling the car? If so, demand a 30 day 3000 mile warranty covering everything!
Not trying to scare you but you need to go into this with eyes wide open and not let the dream cloud your judgement.
One thing that I always bugged me about "proper" PPIs though, specifically dropping the sump and cutting open the filter to check for debris. In many cases dealers will lightly service cars as prep for sale which includes and oil and filter change. In that case, especially if the car has not been test driven, the oil and filter will be clean even if there were real problems before. Any thoughts on that?
A test drive would/should be done before checking the filter and dropping the sump. If anything was shedding metal it will show up. Anything bigger than glitter will most likely still be sitting in the sump.
Yes, this is a real concern! The old "clean-up before the sale"... Drive it some and check it again. Ask when the last service was done - if it was "yesterday", you may need a couple hundred miles before you get a true reading on things...
This is not intended as a criticism and different strokes for different folks, but to me $1000 is a lot to pay for a car that you may not end up buying. Do that two or three times without landing something and you just paid for the IMS to be replaced. But I understand the peace of mind you get and certainly if there were real problems with the car it could cost a lot more. Again, I'm not having a go at you.
One other thing that I learned in buying my car. I spoke with three different independents and they all said the same thing unprompted by me: other than the IMS, these cars are really solid.
Even a short test drive should produce any issues in the oil? I'm thinking of the scenario where the car is prepped for sale and sits on the lot. Maybe it gets driven 5-10 miles before the PPI.
Good luck with the car. your trip back home will be one of the most watched road trips in 996 forum history, lol. keep us posted with pictures and again, good luck.
Yeah, I mean theoretically if something bad were going to happen as the result of an over-rev it would have happened by now. A lot of Porsche owners just don't want blemishes on their car's record so I guess the question I'd bounce back to you is how big would the lump be in your throat if you got a reading at your first visit to the mechanic and it comes back 100 Range 2?
Take all of the drama with a grain of salt.
Was your PPI great/extensive? Nope.
Did I even bother with a PPI when I bought my 996? Nope. I knew enough to do what $200 would have bought, and I know the seller would not have submitted to an invasive PPI. So I spent my money and took my chances.
Thankfully, nothing serious showed up at my "post-purchase inspection" at Black Forest.
You do as much as you can to make you comfortable with the decision. If there's one "known" with 996 ownership, it's that you have NO idea what the car might do tomorrow - so you have to enjoy the car as it exists today.
I'm doing my best to do just that. It's a 900 mile road trip with a modern car. These cars can't be
that
fragile.
Gonna treat it like an adventure and enjoy myself.
Yes, I have to decide what my ratio of back roads to interstate will be. I dig state/county roads, but I also don't want a 14 hour trip to turn into an 19 hour trip.
I use 6th very rarely and I tend to drive my 4s pretty hard and fast. You�ll feel and hear your car�s sweet spot pretty quickly. Once warm I stay at or above 3500 rpm, usually closer to 4K, but that�s just me.
Let it warm up for a few minutes until the idle drops back down to 7-800 rpms and keep it at 3Kish while cruising (I shift before 4K) until the engine is up to temp. Watch your oil pressure it will be high at first (5 bar) and will drop down to 1.5ish at idle. I'm in a very warm climate year round though. Also, my first drive of the day is down hill.
Others may differ...
Edit for all to see the
proper way to warm up these engines!
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-part-5-a.html
Holy smokes. Drama indeed. Sounds like a good car that sailed through a PPI with the seller replacing the only concerning issue. Price is about what I'd expect retail from a dealer but if cosmetics are congruent with miles you'll be fine. No don't drive it at 4000 rpm for 1000 miles home. Just treat it like a normal car with 2500-3500 rpm upshifts. Warm it up gently before any significant revs or full throttle (oil press will be around 1.5 bar at idle when fully warmed up). These motors are very tractable at low revs, I'll often skip from 4 --> 6 when merging on the highway. Enjoy your new purchase, replace the IMS when it's convenient, and keep us updated on the drive home.
Do not, I repeat,
do not
drive your 996 like a grandma. You might as well be in an automatic sedan if you are going to upshift between 2500-3500 rpm. Unless you are still warming the car up, or putt putting through a slow wake zone, these cars reward the use of higher revs. Sub 3500 rpm is *way* outside the fun zone.
Understood. However, not every mile driven will be for fun. There will be times when I'm just getting from point A to point B.
That was the situation I was trying to get RPM recommendations for.
Every time I get in my 996 it is for a fun drive. But hey, that's just me. I have a lumbering Land Cruiser for times when a fun drive isn't called for.
You�re gonna love 3rd & 4th gears, end of story! 5th and 6th to save some gas and cruising at 90+. 3k in 6th is quiet and boring, but on long flat highways it�s a change of pace and you still have tremendous acceleration at your command should you need it.
My car has factory sports exhaust, not sure how that impacts my perceived �sweet spot� sound wise vs other 996s. Have fun, the car wants to go, let it!
Here is my planned route from DC to the IL/IN state line:
https://goo.gl/maps/UdxvtXXMjnBX6DsP6
Not sure what I'll do from there to Madison. Don't really want to drive through Chicago, especially if it will be rush hour.
Hwy 48 and parts of 50 are an ***-kicker road in a 911. True enjoyment. But - watch out for local boys coming into the small towns on the route. Have a detector working on that section.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
