Is it the IMS or not?

Hello All, brand new new to this forum. I really hope someone might shed some light on the problem I have with my 2000 C2 Cab Carrera. Essentially My car has been sitting for anout a year now. It has 81,000mi. I was told by a local Porsche mechanic (not a Porsche dealership) that the IMS failed, and he wanted nothing to do with repairing it. I have done extensive research and read all the horror stories. The problem, other then the obvious is that I'm not sure the IMS has in fact failed. Ive viewed many videos on YouTube and read a lot of accounts of the IMS failure and it seems the problem with my car is not typical at all of IMSB failure. Here is what I do know: I was driving the car at about 50mph when the car stalled. I dropped it down to 2nd and popped the clutch and it started right up again. Continued to drive anout 2-3 miles and it stalled again. This time it would not start. Rolled to a stop, got out and oil was pouring from the back of the motor. There was no warning, (I know this is common), no rattling or knocking, and the car won't even attempt to crank. Does oil leak out all over the place when the IMS fails? Does this sound familiar to anyone else who has had an IMSB failure? Does anybody habe have any suggestions or advice. It would be much appreciated. thanks, Steve

Yes oil could pour out the back from a bad IMS. Or it could be a rear mani seal. From the stalling and engine locking comments it could be a totally failed AoS that completely locked up a cylinder too. I�d be prepared to have that engine pulled and thoroughly inspected.

Maybe, maybe not. Drop the sump and see whats doing on in there. What I find intriguing is you have let it sit a year without investigating, the suspense would be killing me lol. Best of luck, heres to hoping its something other than IMS failure.

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Did the shop that diagnosed it as IMS failure actually examine the bearing to confirm it was the root cause? Did they drop the sump plate? It could be a broken chain that busted a hole in the case that in turn, caused the oil to pour out. But regardless of which one it is, based on your symptoms, it looks like you're going to need to rebuild this motor or find a donor... or, sell it as a roller. If the shop didn't examine the sump plate, then that would be my first step. This is something you can do yourself. Or at least open up the oil canister and examine. Take picture and post back to this thread.

My advice is to stop reading horror stories and either do some diagnostics yourself or take it to someone qualified that you can trust. If you are capable and have the tools to do a thorough inspection, then there's really nothing to lose. Start to systematically analyze the failure mode and troubleshoot the systems involved. If you don't have the tools or skill, bring it to someone who does. You can definitely make things worse by bumbling around in the engine bay. If you need recommendations for a good shop, Rennlist may be able to help, so may your local PCA.

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^^+1

Thank you to all who responded thus far. Again, to be clear, the engine just shut off when this happened. No noise, no clattering. It was exactly like a stall. I'm perplexed as to,why it started again after the first stall. I would think if the timing chain failed it would not start again. I am going to remove the sump plate and see if there are any metal frags evident. BTW, the car sat for about a year due to an injury I sustained which had me laid up for several months and I live in the northeast so working on the car was impossible. Thanks again for responses.

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Sorry for your loss. This biggest mistake one could make is what you did, bump starting it before diagnosing why it died. The colleterial damage because of it will cost you 1000's in most cases. First drain your oil and look for glitter, cut open your oil filter and look for metal shavings, drop the sump and report your findings. It sucks when this happens but you could get lucky as a couple other have.

Sounds like a classic IMSB seizure to me. When the bearing first starts to fail, before it has worn enough to be "loose", it can "seize" or "lock-up". The seizure can cause the engine to stall. When this happens, it turns the mounting stud in the tightening direction and snaps it off. The snapped stud/nut falls into the bellhousing and opens the 8mm hole in the IMS flange that oil can pour out of. There is no sound or warning because the bearing was never "loose" or "flopping", just snapped off the mounting stud/nut. The resulting catastrophic damage (bent valves ect.) is hard to access untill the engine is dissasembled.

^^ So, it seems like the key to an early diagnosis would be whether the oil is pouring directly out of the crankcase or if it's coming from the seam between the transmission and the engine...

Bummer First post possible IMSB failure Sorry Hoping for the best

WELL, I just finished taking the sump plate down and inspecting it. At first glance there did not seem to be any metal shaving or debris in the pan. Unfortunately, I spilled what sludgy oils was set at the bottom and behold......many metal bits and pieces. One as much as an inch long. Also a small rubber O-ring torn and lots of metal bits in the sump filter. I was afraid of this but held out my hopes it was something else. Its really a shame as I never over revved the car and drove it "relatively" normal. There are many upgrades in the car and not sure what to do now. I can't see spending $10,000 on a car worth about $25,000. I am really pissed at the shop that did my clutch last year as they could have recommended the IMSB upgrade but obviously did not. It was my fault too as I should have insisted they take a look at it when they had the car apart. I was told by the dealership back in 2008 it was done. If I can figure out how to upload pics I will. Perhaps a job for my wife.... Any suggestions with what to do with the car now? The car has a speck clutch, short shift kit, Fabspeed exhaust, K&N filters and carbon fiber interior accents. Also Michelin Pilot sport ZRrated tires with about 7000mi on them to name a few enhancements. Thanks again to all for your suggestions and assistance. Much appreciated.

Sorry to hear that. Three logical options: fix it, part it out, or sell it as a roller. Good luck!

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Sorry bud, but the IMSB was past it's expected service life if it was indeed replaced before 08. As stated above, sell some parts, your car is worth $4-6K as a roller. Download pics to your computer then start a post and click on the post card like box above (next to the smiley face) in the tool bar.

Lots of guys on here looking for rollers. Possible a Indy shop near you may want to buy it and replace the engine to make a few bucks. Its terrible this has happened to you.

Thanks again guys! Yeah, I have to decide whether or not to part the car out of just sell it as is. I can remove most of the parts myself although I don't have all the tools necessary for removing all parts worth offering. Can anyone give me an idea of what an actual engine rebuild my cost? Perhaps a place that does good work as well? As I stated in an earlier post the place who did my clutch wanted nothing to do with it. Not that I would give him the business anyway. Lastly, any opinions on what course of action to take? I'm sensing cutting my losses and looking for another 996/911 with IMS done might be the way to go. I like the 993 a lot too but they are hella expensive it seems. Cheers!

I'm very sorry to hear this. What to do next depends on how attached you are to the car. You can look for a used engine, have the engine rebuilt, part it out, or sell it as a roller. Only you can decide which path to take.

Hi Bill, I too am from Metro NY (Queens originally). Also a Metro PCA member. I'm pretty bummed about this and need to decide what to do. As stated in above post, there are a lot of extras in the car and there were many costly mods on it when I purchased it back in 2008. It was quite literally one of the best cars I've ever owned mechanically....until this! My dilemma is a tough one. On one hand I spend the money sourcing another motor. On the other, I cut my losses and sell it as a roller and buy another one with upgraded IMS or get it done as a prophylactic measure. Not even sure how to sell this one as is although I'm sure I can post it on this forum and see what happens. Thanks for the response.

Sorry to hear. I hope it ends up not being as bad as you might think. If it was my car, I would first figure out what exactly is wrong with it. If the engine is not fixable, I would consider a Boxster 3.2L engine as a replacement. Pretty cheap and is not that much less powerful as the 3.4L when coupled with the 996 intake manifold and TB.

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There are many threads on the cost of a rebuild here and they vary in price. You may be better off buying a new short block from Porsche and swapping all the other parts? If it were me I would scour the country/world looking for a cheap running motor. Most salvage yards will stand behind them for 30-60 days so if you get it and there is an issue its returnable. I would replace a few parts before install like IMS, AOS, Cam guides etc. I would send someone to the yard at my expense to drop the sump and check fore bore scoring. This wouldn't be 100% fool proof to get you another 20 years but its also the cheapest way out. Its a risk vs money thing to me.

Here you go, a very comprehensive thread on the subject.....Grab a coffee and a chair because its a long in-depth informative thread https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-rebuild.html

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^^ Seems to me the best thing for you to do is take a deeeeeep breath, and do some real reading and research - had you done this before and learned more about the M96, you may have avoided this situation all together (but there's no sense crying over spilled milk). Of course, maybe not - but you certainly would be better prepared to deal with it. Coming here and asking for opinions is just going to get you a bunch of scattered noise that may or may not pertain to your personal needs. The upside is that you've got options, the downside is that they'll all cost you in the long run... Good Luck

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This rennlister has compiled a good spreadsheet to give you an idea of the various engine rebuild and replacement options and price points: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...bs-vertex.html Figure between $6k for a high mileage salvage engine, to mid 20's for a high end rebuild with increased displacement. If you don't have the tools to part out a car, I'm guessing you don't have the tools to do an engine swap. Plan on a few thousand dollars of labor on top of whatever engine you pick for removal and reinstallation. (And a few thousand more for while you're in there stuff like IMSB, AOS, RMS, clutch, etc if you buy one of the lower end options like a salvage engine). I imagine if you posted the roller for sale here, a bunch of us would be interested. If you price it fairly ($4-6 depending on condition), it'll sell. You may feel shocked that it is so low, but the problem the buyer has is the same one you are facing - it requires a lot of cash to bring these back from the dead. The engine is the most costly part on these cars now, and you can buy entire cars from the mid teens up... You could also eBay it, or sell it on Craigslist. Many enthusiasts scan those sources for rollers.

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I drive a 996 with a 3.2 swapped in; the engine was $3,000 had reasonable miles and a recent IMS replacement. If you decide to go this route; feel free to ask questions.

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I suspect this destroys any future resale value, but on the up side preserves the ability to drive a 911 chassis. Reminds me of the old 912 that Porsche sold, sort of a neutered 911. I cannot imagine wanting less power than the 3.4.

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Definitely not good for resale, but not everyone needs a good resale value. If you are planning on keeping the car, that is an extremely cheap way to go about solving your problem. Even if its a "short term" solution. Maybe 3-5k gets you back on the road, and you can address an high end rebuild later in life??? Or just throw a small block 350 in it and callout a day lol

A friend of mine had this exact IMS problem, oil came pouring out of the engine. 1. We bought a used engine, and found one cylinder had zero compression. It went back. Lesson is don't buy a used unknown engine. 2. We then bought a long block, rebuilt by a racer out of Florida, for $10K ish. Swapped everything over. It cost him under 15K, and I thought that was as low as it could get. If you enjoyed the car before, fix it. If you are sick of it now, sell the roller for $5K and put it toward a 997.

Yeah; resale value is probably squat on a 3.2 swapped car(I suspect I�d get base boxster money if I tried). But I actually got the roller cheap with the intention of doing this swap. At the time I was driving a base 944 so even with it�s neutered power it felt like a big step up. I hope to someday to put a fully rebuilt engine in to restore it to its former glory but honestly I enjoy it a lot. to be clear though; the reason to do this is because it costs about 1/3-1/2 of a comparable 911 engine and about 1/4 of what a Chevy v8 swap costs.

Again thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Special thanks to Horsepwr and cds72911 for the threads and links. The rebuild is quite extensive and, IMO, not cost effective considering time and money. At a quick glance the cost of parts, tools and shop repairs looks to be in the $11,000-$13,000 range. That's not calculating the time it takes to do the rebuild. As much as I would love to undertake that project I simply don't have the time nor am I confident enough in my mechanical ability to do it. There are simply too many variables. Swapping a 3.2 Boxter motor is not the solution for me. Albeit it is the less expensive solution, however, I just can't justify doing that. I'm sure the car would drive just fine if I went that way but for several reasons I would not. I contacted a friend who has been in the Euro car business for 30 years (mainly MeBe and BMW) and he is going to try to source an engine for me. It would be best for him to purchase the engine on my behalf as he has relationships with these salvage yards for years and would be much less likely to get screwed. If he can't locate the engine I think I will sell as a roller and buy another car. I'll just wait and see what he finds. I really hope he can find an engine as I really love this car. It has treated me well prior to this happening. Ill keep the the thread posted. Thanks again to all!

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Best of luck. You may have mentioned this and I missed it but is it your daily driver?

No. Fortunately I have a truck and my wife drives an Infiniti, so I'm not stuck without a ride. This is/was my toy but I did drive it quite a bit. I put 45k mi. on it over the course of nine years. I have a Harley that will be getting a lot more use this summer now too. ��