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YOUR RESEARCHChewed Up Bolt Found in Oil Pan
Leading reported evidence
Install each bolt (with a tad of blue locktite)
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
After installing four studs to line up pan, I hand installed each bolt (with a tad of blue locktite) with a socket and extension in a cris-cross pattern, I then wend back with ratchet to just snug up before torque only to find that when I snugged them up I was already at the 7 ft lbs of pressure.
Leading evidence: 'Install each bolt (with a tad of blue locktite)' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'oil pressure sensor' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check auto atlanta's website' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
As mentioned in 1st post, I did have the IMS replaced early after buying car.
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Suggestion · Original poster
So if the oil analysis comes back positive, my oil pressure stays stable after installing new sensor and I do not hear anything not normal, I will drive, check oil frequently and start saving for the future.
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Suggestion
If you tear the engine down, I would check the oil strainers, under one of the hydraulic actuators in each head feeding, I believe the cam compensators, to remove any trapped metal along with all other metal particles.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I always store it with no compression on spring and ALWAYS do a check on a bolt in vise (just for feel and to insure I hear the click) before using it.
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Suggestion
Those are not your engine numbers, they are not cast to the block, check right above the pan rail on drivers side of the block and should be stamped on.
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Suggestion · Original poster
After finally completing the above (except for Blackstone analysis that I should get by tomorrow), I re-installed sump cover (no leaks), installed the new Oil Pressure Sensor, filled with DT40 and started it up preying that all would be good.
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Outcome without a verified action link
In addition, I am installing the new oil pressure sensor that I got due to the 2 times I had a flash reading of "Engine Failure" w 0 pressure on gauge that turned back to normal within a minute.
Just posted a thread "oil change w 1 small flake ?" well it just became a very disappointing day for me. While re-installing my magnetic drain plug I heard a click, when removing the plug, a busted up bolt was stuck to the magnet. When I drained the oil there were no metal in filter and no metal on plug and the oil had no glitter at all.
After a panic attack, I removed the pan and found the pieces of the bolt along with some other pieces. Looked under motor and could not see where this bolt came loose from. Below are a few pics and I have many more if someone can help. Still in a panic mode but would like to try and diagnose the problem before flat bedding it to my Indy.
Any and all help appreciated. The car has 65k miles on it, oil changes (with Docs) every 3-5K miles, always cut open filter and have never seen anything. (You can see the filter in my other post)
Additional info: A few days ago I was driving and the "Engine Failure" light came on and oil pressure showed 0, I immediately pulled over but before I could turn off the motor the light was off and pressure was at 5. I called my Indy and he said it was probably the oil pressure sensor and to keep an eye on it. I also read several threads on Renn where others had the same problem. It did not happen again until yesterday and the same thing happened so I ordered a new sensor and was going to replace it during this oil change. Not sure if this plays a part but wanted to point it out.
Also I switched from Mobil 1 0w-40 to DT40 last oil change 3k miles ago. IMS was replaced with LN Ceramic at 53,700 miles.
Is this a DIY repair "I am very handy mechanically with a good shop" or do you think I will be in a situation where many special tools and experience will be necessary?
+1 on dporto comment, its been mangled on its way down. Doesn't look big enough to be crank carrier related so most likely something in the head.
The brown material looks like pad.
If you get lucky then you pop a cam cover off and see the missing space where this came from and then replace the scavenger pump on that bank, plus the missing bolt.
Could be worse than that however.
That's a 997 bolt inside a 996 engine, may be a factory rebuild, check the engine number to see if it has "AT" stamped there.
Can you read what is stamped on the head of the bolt ? Can you measure how long the bolt was?
Don't believe it is a factory rebuilt, I have all records from time it was first sold. I took a couple of pics of bolt and engine number (I believe this is the engine number) if not, where do I look.
The bolt measures about 17 mm +/- in length, hard to tell since the bolt was twisted and torn in half. I also took a pic of the markings on head of bolt.
Also very curious about the piece of aluminum in first pics, almost looks like the bolt broke off this piece that it went through due to its shape being concave like around the bolt ?.
We need Ahsai or one of the "internalists" to chime in. It looks to me like one of the bolts from the oil pan. But I have no idea if they are used elsewhere in the engine or not. Regardless it doesn't look good.
I would recommend renaming the thread Chewed Up Bolt Found in Oil Pan or something similar to get the right people involved in the conversation.
Those are not your engine numbers, they are not cast to the block, check right above the pan rail on drivers side of the block and should be stamped on. and no way that pass thru the pump and not have a failure of the pump.
IMS chain rail bolt (black plastic) or cam sprocket bolt carried by the chain.
You could check the sprockets by removing the scavenger pumps, but you wouldn't know what other damage there is without separating the case.
Camshaft sprocket bolt looks to be 12 mm, but OP said its hard to measure:
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com...08-p28525.html
It can't be a plastic bolt, he found it because it stuck to his magnetic oil plug.
I am new to these cars, so probably wrong, but this looks exactly like IMS flange bolt to me (h6 x 20MM).
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com...01-p22413.html
I would also imagine that if this thing fell out of the head and made it's way into the pan, you'd have a lot more trouble than just a zero oil pressure reading, no? Is it possible that the person that did the IMS dropped this, and its been in the pan the whole time and at various points, it runs into something that chews it up? Seems incredible to me.
As mentioned in 1st post, I did have the IMS replaced early after buying car. It had had several oil changes since then and also had the 60k service done including new plugs, belt, tensioners and water pump. I always cut open filter and never found anything other than the small flake that I brought up in another thread. The oil had no visible contaminants when draining. I have sent a sample to Blackstone.
Also, all debry was found inside the baffled area of sump cover. There were no other contaminants outside of baffle area. Not sure this means anything but the Bolt and other materials were to big to flow in from outside of baffle. The aluminum piece was sucked up to screen on pickup in sump. Could these things have partlally reduced the oil pressure and then when I pulled over the idle pressure dropped the pieces resulting in normal pressure again?
Thanks for responses and I will continue to update and inspect anything that someone thinks should be looked at.
Couple of thoughts. Are all the bolts that retain the baffles to the sump plate in place? Did you have the AOS replaced - thinking someone dropped a bolt into the hole during the replacement process?
Not the METAL bolts for the black plastic chain rail - too long per PET. Weird thing is I think the sprocket bolts are hex heads.
Bolt looks like case bolts or bolts for the suction tube or the swirl pots, but doesn't look like anything is missing from the pics.
I don't recall any other similar bolts that would make it to the sump. But regardless of where it came from, and considering the bolt could have been "left in there," the bolt is pretty mangled. If mangled by the engine, then I'd be worried something else is damaged and unfortunately, the only way to figure this out is to split the case.
Expensive now, probably much more expensive later.
A few things interesting in your sump photos. The bolt on the oil scrapper should be an internal hex but yours is a torx. Similar for the other bolts on the sump swirl pots.
Hard to tell how long the broken bolt is. The ones on the cam sprocket are 12mm long. The other possibilities I can think of are case bolts and cam cover bolts (both quite long though).
Just talked to my Indy, there are sevral other 16mm bolts internally (he mentioned where and how many at each location but went over my head) and he says that all locations will require splitting the motor and in addition there will most likely be machine work required. His high estimate until he opens it up is $24+ k to make it a 4.0 or $20+ k to rebuild oem, any thoughts?
Hmmm...could be a manifold bolt dropped in there during AOS replacement, or an oil filler pipe bolt that got dropped in there. Here is what I would do, make sure every damn bolt is accounted for inside the engine sump, and re-torqued to spec. Now for the weird part. I would button up the sump, re-fill with oil and run it. I have no idea how it got in there and don't want to speculate how it got banged up. The oil pickup filter screen prevented it from getting anywhere inside the engine. It is not a rod bolt so you don't have to worry about that. If it dropped into the sump from one of the cam sprockets, then it would take a lot of dismantling/checking to get to those. If you have had no other ticking, banging, thumping or other weird noises, let's just say you found it, removed it and move on. Run a Durametric scan on cam angles. Run oil analysis and watch/listen for anything not normal. Looking at $20-24K for a rebuild is absurd at this point unless you have time/money to burn. You could tear it all apart and do a forensic analysis, or it could be a big waste or time/money. Just my 2 cents.....sometimes life is a mystery.
Your comment is realistic, while talking to my Indy today (for the 4th time) he said something similar. After giving me all the pros and cons, he said that since there was no previous signs of noises, vibrations, ect, I could wait for the Oil analysis to come back from Blackstone. if all normal, clean things up, fill with oil, keep an eye (and ear) on things and drive it. He mentioned that to investigate it the cost would be north of $10-15K and from what he saw, it is most likely that this bolt could of been laying in pan for some time. He mentioned that it could be as simple as one of the bolts that support the pan under crank (these are my words) that could of backed off (should of had thread lock on it) and got waked by the crank causing both the busted bolt and aluminum shrapnel. It would be an expensive tear down if this is all it was. In addition, I am installing the new oil pressure sensor that I got due to the 2 times I had a flash reading of "Engine Failure" w 0 pressure on gauge that turned back to normal within a minute. He believes the two are not related.
So if the oil analysis comes back positive, my oil pressure stays stable after installing new sensor and I do not hear anything not normal, I will drive, check oil frequently and start saving for the future.
Is there any reason not to do this? Spend $10-15k now not knowing or $15-20K later if it blows?
This question was brought up a couple of times and I wanted to respond, I have not (nor do any of my receipts) show that the AOS has been replaced. I perform a crank case pressure check each time I do an oil change and my pressure is at 4.81 in wc.
Thanks so much for everyone's comments and help, This question has also been brought up a couple of times, my engine appears to be original, see pic below. I asked my Indy about this and he mentioned that Porsche switched from the hex head bolts to male torque in mid to late 2004.
If you go with the "rock what you got" plan, I would recommend a 2nd oil analysis and filter check at 500 miles. You don't have to do a full oil change and it should provide additional peace of mind or confirm things are going downhill.
Good Idea. I am also going to use a borascope up through the two openings where I can see the crank with the oil pan cover off. I will not do anything until I get my report from Blackstone (not even refilling oil) and I will continue to check this threads for other recommendations.
Thanks
I believe the cam sprocket bolts are 10.9 grade, the loose bolt is 8.8 leading me to think it fell from a "simi-critical" place where it was under torqued.
Good idea, if it passes the initial inspection I would remove the spark plugs so you can turn the engine over Manually by hand CLOCKWISE ONLY while listening & feeling for any interference. If it passes that test try spinning it over with the starter to see if any unusual noise is created. All of this with oil replaced of course.
I can't imagine an internal bolt coming loose and somehow making its way into the sump - unless it's one of the bolts that resides in the sump. Purely speculating here, but my bet is that it was dropped in during a repair or oil change.
My main concern would be how the bolt was twisted and split. Unless you drove your car upside down, the bolt damage happened coming down to the sump - don't know how a "good" bolt would work back up into the engine.
I think only the chain and rotating components could damage the bolt leading to possible damage to that component.
My concern would be that the damaged component leads to a bigger failure like a chain letting loose or some type of oil failure. The various components that could be damaged down the road are pretty expensive.
If you tear the engine down, I would check the oil strainers, under one of the hydraulic actuators in each head feeding, I believe the cam compensators, to remove any trapped metal along with all other metal particles.
This is a weird situation because I don't recall any male torx above the sump. I could see someone trying to replace the case bolts under the bell housing during an IMS job, and dropping one in the case.
I too am concerned about what you commented on. I did have the IMS replaced with LN in June 2016 but have put approx 12,000 miles on the car since then and it is as smooth and quite as could be, no issues. The only other work (besides oil changes) was my 60K service March of this year when I also had them install a new water pump for preventative measures and have put over 6,000 miles on it since then.
If that came off, got chewed up and somehow got into the sump it would have been very noticeable. The fact that you discovered it by accident and not during a tear down following catastrophic engine failure leads me to believe it was dropped in during an oil change or somehow assembled with it in there. Best course of action may be to change the oil and continue driving as you have been.
Im assuming everything has seemed normal thus far.
This may be stupid and does not really explain the damage to the bolt, but looking at your first pic the bolt has the same markings as the bolt on the oil pan baffle. There are three bolts holding the baffle on. Are they all there?
The hope would be that the bolt did not do any internal damage. Tearing down the engine now would be expensive so maybe just listen for weird noises, which you probably do now, and monitor the oil for new metal as a sign for further damage. Feel the oil for nonferrous and a magnet for steel during oil changes.
Honestly, my experience has been that a large majority of the internals are wear parts and should be replaced when rebuilt for any expected longevity. If you continue to drive the car and have a failure, maybe you won't really need additional parts. As long as your crank, bearing carrier, IMS shaft sprockets, camshafts, bearing saddles in the head, and case are ok, most other parts should be replaced anyway during a rebuild.
Sorry you have to go through this. The cost for these types of repairs/parts are ridiculous relative to the cost of the car, and lays bare our insanity.
I'm also in the 'somebody dropped a bolt' camp...
Even if the mechanic realized he did it, it probably didn't make it's way all the way down to the oil pan until sometime later so no even semi-easy fix. Probably didn't want to fess up to his boss or the customer realizing it might very well cost the shop a small fortune as well as his job.
Reminds me of the time I dropped a valve shim while working on my own KTM moto... Baby was GONE but not down all the way down to the oil pan. Choices were pull the engine and split the cases (BIG job!) or hope for the best. i chose option B. Ran the bike for a while listening carefully for any noises, did an oil change and found the shim in the filter screen with a few scuffs but undamaged. Engine has been running like a top for many years and miles since...
If you have the service history, check if the oil fillertube has been changed.
It's secured with one m6x16 bolt.
When I changed mine, I noticed that it would be quite easy to drop the bolt in to the engine, if not being cautious.
It would go thru crankcase and end to the bottom of the oilpan. Worst case it would stop on the crankshaft carrier and fell thru when engine was running.
This thread is fascinating, sorry to the OP for the situation but im in the human error camp too. Interesting point on the oil filler neck that could solve this mystery!
^^^^ i was waiting for some one to pick up on that....instead one praised the magnetic drain plug for saving the motor
. This HBO drama can shortened to ......drive it,sell it or fix it ....
If the bolt went through the oil filler tube hole and got side swiped by the crank carrier rotating components, it could have sheared off a small piece of aluminum perhaps?
What I'd be worrying about are the components that were bent but didn't break during whatever s**tshow caused the damage to the bolt.
"Mosht thingsh in there don't react well to boltsh."
-Capt. Marko Ramius
Yes, the car ran very quiet and smooth. In fact, I was about to write a post on the difference the DT40 made in how the engine ran so quiet.
Thanks and I have now confirmed that all of the bolts that hold down the baffle are in place.
I do have all the receipts for all work that has been performed from day 1 on this car (one of the reasons I got it) and they do not show any work related to replacing the filler tube.
I wanted to send a message to Jake but after reading his thread on the damage to property and the clean up he was undergoing from Irma, I felt it best not to bother him.
I am as much (if not more) concerned about the chunk of aluminum. This is why I plan on using the borascope to its fullest extent to look within the engine. I may see nothing but want to do all I can (other than spending the $$$ at this point to split the case) before refilling with oil and starting it. I also plan to perform another oil analysis in 500 miles along with removing and inspecting the filter.
Again, thanks all who have offered comments or questions. From my 57 years of life experience, there is no such thing as a dumb question.
Possibly a bolt from chain sprocket that may have gotten caught in the area around the sprocket and consequently took a small chunk of aluminum before it got free and dropped into the pan. My sprocket bolts are hex bolts, yours are likely to be torx heads. I attached a picture of my chain sprocket so you can see the area i am talking about.
My vote would be to drive it until something happens. To figure out where that came from as you have pointed out will likely cost almost as much as putting a rebuilt motor in. Sure, you may screw it up so much that you no longer have a core, but it is very likely that that bolt has been there a LONG time with no ill effect.
What are the chances that the bolt ended up in the pan just a day or two before you found it. Almost zero I suspect. It's been hanging out there for a while, possibly from some previous work, possibly since the motor was built. Had you not gotten the magnetic drain plug, you would still not know that bolt and chunk of aluminum was there. You'd be driving the car happily until it met one of it's other famous modes of failure.
One of my underlings wandered into my office yesterday wearing a Paula-Abdul's-got-the-nods-after-railing-oxy-all-night-long look in his dopey eyes. He paused, eyes lazily scanning the labels on the front of the server and the intermittent progress indicator of the Linux install. The flicking eyes were the only hint of intelligence, a single dot of sentient green on the otherwise unbroken gray expanse of bovine thickheadedness.
Suddenly, a neuron kicked off! He blinked, clearly startled by the unfamiliar sensation of thought, and asked, "whatcha doin?"
Thankfully, I am a man of limitless patience. A lesser boss would have merely pointed and yelled, "Get the f**k out!" I, on the other hand, was able to draw down deep from my reservoir of self-control, so I said "I'm making ice cream, you f**kwit. Now get the f**k out!"
Your sentiment is a beautiful one, but it's flawed. Stupid people
only
ask stupid questions.
good point, I still get a chuckle from the "do you cover your snorkel when you wash your car" thread. But on the other hand, sometimes the dumb question Leeds you into a different direction that you have not thought of. Anyways, I still appreciate all responses.
That seems to be the consensus of many but I will do my due diligence, clean everything up, wait for oil analysis, probe around with a boreascope (gave me a reason to buy one) if all looks good, refill with DT40 and pay attention to how it runs and sounds. From the advise of Slakker, will do another filter check and oil analysis at around 500 miles. Just hope this does not haunt me like the IMS did before changing it.
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https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DesKkzaf8Bs/VICT1e8RpZI/AAAAAAAAid4/cZdxRUuQ1jI/s1600/somebody%2Bhas%2Bto%2Bstart%2Bthe%2Bslow%2Bclap.%2BJohn%2BTerry.jpg
I agree with you. Do everything you possibly can to be as sure as you can of a happy ending. If you don't you'll likely be questioning your choices about 15,000 to 20,000 times.
Wishing you the best of luck going forward !
Thanks for the wishful luck, I need it.
It is not that I would be questioning my choice 15,000 to 20,000 times since it would cost well north of $10,000 just to drop and open up in hopes to find what went wrong, so if everything works out, I could of saved myself this cost and if it goes bad, I am still back to opening it up. Worst case would be if I cause further damage resulting in loosing my core, then I would be out an additional 5K or so. The way I am looking at it, its really questioning a choice 0 to 5,000 times.
I think it passed thru the crank & rods to get broken like it did, I think a chain would get "derailed" while braking the bolt. Case & Cam cover bolts are 30mm long.
Wow! This has turned into an epic thread!
My two cents...
Your car just passed a kidney stone! Might wanna have a doctor look into this before it turns into something worse.
^Nah^ the newer case bolts are male torx...I'm not sure when they decided to start using them, but I bought 42 when I did my cam covers -
and they are male torx - But as you say 30mm. If it was indeed dropped into the case through an outer opening, it could be from just about anywhere that uses a bolt of that size (I think you said 12mm). In any case, here's to hoping it didn't do much internal damage
A quick glance and search in the 996 parts PDF for "M6 X 16" makes me guess that the grade 8.8 M6x16 bolt is (was hex, now torx) part 900 378 163 09
That show's up on 6 different pages of the parts list. So not too much effort to look at the exploded diagrams in there and think which ones could have got to the sump without going through a scavenge pump. Or for that matter have got there through some fumbled external maintainance work.
Again, thanks all for your comments, I have learned allot and am feeling better about the direction I am going.
I have read several posts where others (such as dporto) are using their knowledge of the various bolt sizes and temper to help identify the possible locations where this bolt may of come from. I find these posts very entrusting so thought I would share a couple more pics of it showing its condition as found in the pan. Again, I believe the bolt size is a M6 x 16 mm but the length is subjective due to being sheared in half.
Unfortunately, I will be working out of town this week but have the case and pan all cleaned up and ready for install. When I return, I will have received my borascope and the Locktite 5900 from Amazon and hope to have my report from Blackstone so next weekend I hope to perform my final inspection, button it up, fill it up and give it a start (again if the lab results and final inspection is favorable).
There are not that many bolts near that size internal in the engine. Looking at PET, you have already verified the oil pump pickup and swirl pot bolts, the others would be the 6x12mm of the internal dip stick support #6(1), the exhaust cam sprockets bots #29(8), the 6x16mm of the oil separator (plastic cover on the bottom of the crank carrier)#23(6), The heat shield bolt (tin shield under the timing chain bolted to head) #31(1 per side)),and the bolts for the small metal rail between the cams(part #7),(PET doesn't list the lenght). With a borescope and the oil pan and scavenge pump removed you should be able to verify all these except the bolts for the plastic oil separator under the carrier that engulfs the IMS .
I might be wrong but there is a bolt in each chain box which goes through the case half and into the bearing carrier, it is a torx bolt, when you torque up case half bolts you torque these last as doing so before would mean they would slacken as you torque the case halves, wonder if someone torqued them before the case halves and it worked loose over time until the head hit the chain snapping it and taking a little of the case with it?? Might see it with borescope with cam cover off down chain box?? But if it's gone it's gone, like you guys say, just flush it and run it!! Hope it keeps going for you !!
Used my borascope looking up through bottom of motor while pan is off and have not seen anything.
Replaced the oil pressure sensor.
Have received the sealant for reassembly of sump pan.
Waiting for my oil sample analysis from Blackstone, they still have not received it through USPS, shipped it out on the 14th.
Also still waiting for a new torque wrench (needed one for low torque so got a 20-200 psi 1/4 drive) for the 7 ft lbs of torque on the sump pan bolts. ordered through Amazon Prime, was to receive it a few days ago but once again the USPS has let me down.
Once I get the wrench and analysis, will put back together, fill with oil and let all know what happens.
If all runs smooth, makes no unusual noises, have no unusual readings on my oil pressure (including not getting that alarming "Engine Failure" light on, will drive it close to home for another 500 miles and pull filter to check for any debris, will also send in another oil sample pulled through dip stick tube hot.
Keeping all fingers and toes crossed. Thanks for asking.
If this is true then it was done at the factory, the motor has never had any work (other than regular and preventative maintenance "IMS, RMS, Water Pump, belt and tensioners) The AOS is original and receipts show no other work (again have all receipts, even for wiper blades, from time of original purchase).
Thanks and appreciate any and all comments.
That's what my understanding is and since the dip stick drops down to within the upper 25% of the oil in pan, thought this would be the best way to get sample without draining all with only a few hundred miles on it.
Sure wish I had that torque wrench, have the day free and am very tired of seeing the car up on stands.
7 ft/lbs isn't really torque wrench territory, even with a small one. Just use a nut driver (no wrench) and tighten very securely just with what you can do with your wrist. That's about 10NM/7ft.lbs.
More importantly, make sure you just snug all the pan bolts first, and tighten in a cross pattern.
[QUOTE=pfbz;14494135]7 ft/lbs isn't really torque wrench territory, even with a small one. Just use a nut driver (no wrench) and tighten very securely just with what you can do with your wrist. That's about 10NM/7ft.lbs.
This technique may be the cause of this whole thread. I have 2) 1/4" drive Snap-On Torque wrenches so I can compare the 2 for accuracy.
Tightening a 7 ft/lb torque bolt with an 16" long torque wrench is just ASKING for problems.
I can't count how many times I've heard the same story... "I heard SNAP, but never heard the click!" (or beep)
Looks awesome, and yes, bearings and engine internals need the correct and accurate torque. Oil pan bolts do not, and it is about as likely for someone without any torque feel to just SNAP a 7 ft/lb bolt with a 16" torque wrench then get it right.
I plan on it. Am still waiting for the 20-200 psi wrench. Although I have little to no experience on an M96 motor, I have done all my previous auto work and completed two restorations (a performance mod v8 in a 1972 Landcruiser and a frame off resto on a 1948 Dodge Powerwagon B1 PW) and the only leaks I had were from over tightening bolts with gaskets. Having only a thin bead (1.5mm) on the pan makes me want to follow the manufacturers recommendations. Thanks for confirming my thoughts Ahsai.
Check out some cycling shop around you and look for those torque wrenches for cycles. I have a X-Tool one and they usually go from 0-10nm or 0-22nm. You do have to do your own conversion but most accurate at midrange. 10nm is just over 7lb/ft so ideally you would do 9nm.
I for one am glad I waited for the torque wrench. After installing four studs to line up pan, I hand installed each bolt (with a tad of blue locktite) with a socket and extension in a cris-cross pattern, I then wend back with ratchet to just snug up before torque only to find that when I snugged them up I was already at the 7 ft lbs of pressure. If I had not had the torque wrench I would of over tighten them.
Also when laying out the 1.5 mm (1/16") bead of seal around center of pan flange (inside of bolt holes) I was concerned that it did not look like enough sealant. Even though it was not much when I bolted it on, I still had some minimal excess pressed out to exterior of flange. Guess it really does not take much.
Final question, do you typically wait a few hours (or a day) for the sealant to set-up before adding oil? I'm in no rush and it makes since to let it sit overnight so that any of the sealant that may of squeezed to inside of flange (although would be minimal) could cure and adhere. Any advise?
Thanks all for the previous comments and plan on filling and starting in the morning. Just hope all runs and sounds good.
This is exactly why i suggested using a nut driver, not ANY type of handled ratchet or torque wrench. 7 ft/lbs is very light torque. As I said, about what you can do with a screwdriver type jandle without trying too hard. It's also typically at the very bottom and least accurate portion of most torque wrenches, unless you have a very small and very accurate inch-lb wrench.
And if you over torqued them a bit, then loosened and torqued properly, thats not the best technique for getting a leak proof seal with the sealant. But hey, you got the correct click on the torque wrench so who cares if it leaks!
I've got a Husky (Home Depot house brand) 1/4" drive torque wrench in In.Lbs. and NM (20 - 200 in.lbs). I think it was about $30.00. I've used it to re-torque both cam covers, oil sump plate, cam chain tensioners, oil scavenge pumps, etc. all with no problems, stripped or broken bolts. It seems to be fairly accurate, but it does have a fairly "quiet click" - you feel it as much as hearing it (I got two other wrenches that have a much louder snap/click), so it's not perfect, but it certainly does the job.
Thanks dporto! It's been a long time since I wrenched professionally- the "house" brands weren't good enough back then (to my probably flawed memory), glad to hear Husky is a good option.
There are plenty of "tool snobs" who might say otherwise, but it works for me. I'm not a full time mechanic who earns my living working on cars, so uber expensive tools are way beyond most of my needs!
Another option that seems to work well for me is the digital torque wrench adapter. I have one (ARM602-3) that I got from Amazon. It works well, and has remained calibrated.
It was recommended to me when I was doing a motorcycle rebuild and needed something that went low for steel bolts in aluminum cases. I have an assortment of click style wrenches, but none of them went as low as I needed.
YMMV, I am a hobbyist, nowhere near a professional mechanic.
You say that nothing broke, blew up, or fell off- sounds good enough for me. Buying more snap-on/mac tools is fun, but I think I'd be well suited to preserving the budget for other maintenance.
I too am not a avid mechanic and did not want to spend allot but have been very happy with my Tekton 1/2 drive 10 - 150 ft lb torque wrench so got their 1/4 drive 20 - 200 in lb (1.66 - 16.66 ft lbs) and was as pleased with it.
Many brands out there and up to you what you feel most comfortable with. I always store it with no compression on spring and ALWAYS do a check on a bolt in vise (just for feel and to insure I hear the click) before using it.
Thought I would post this update for those that followed this thread and provided much welcome advise.
As you know, during my last 3k mile oil change I found a broken bolt and piece of aluminum in my sump. After reading many responses and talking to several Porsche mechanics, I elected to perform some due-diligence steps (shown below) and hoping that the bolt was nothing more than something dropped into motor during some previous work and that there was no internal damage to the motor.
Cutting open filter and inspect
Thoroughly cleaning out sump
Sending oil sample to Blackstone
Using a borascope to inspect what I could through bottom of motor
After finally completing the above (except for Blackstone analysis that I should get by tomorrow), I re-installed sump cover (no leaks), installed the new Oil Pressure Sensor, filled with DT40 and started it up preying that all would be good.
After starting up, I was pleased that the motor ran very smooth with no noise what soever, ref Youtube texcwa-996-1 below. After topping off oil, took it for a test drive. Drove it for approx 30 minutes alowing it to warm up then doing some spirited driving. After returning the car was still running smooth with no unusual noised (none at all) and a very smooth idle, ref Youtube texcwa-996-2 below. Hopefully I dodged the bullet and the car will continue to give me the pleasure it has.
I still plan on sending out for a second oil analysis in at approx 500 miles (as recommended by another Rennlister). I will also be posting the Blackstone Analysis I receive tomorrow if I have any concerns or questions.
At this point, I only have one more question. I noticed while driving the car that my oil pressure would top off at 4.5 bars (never would budge above that to the 5 bar max). I did do a search on this site where others experienced the same thing after installing a new sensor but after time the readings came back to normal. Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks again to all that participated in this thread and will update if anything changes.
Tex
You Tube
You Tube
At this point, I only have one more question. I noticed while driving the car that my oil pressure would top off at 4.5 bars (never would budge above that to the 5 bar max). I did do a search on this site where others experienced the same thing after installing a new sensor but after time the readings came back to normal. Has anyone else experienced this?
I dont follow your question.
I only brought this up since my car always ran at 5 bars when on the gas, then I got the "engine failure light" with o bars on two occasions where before I could turn off key, the light would go off and I would have pressure again. (this is why I installed the new pressure sensor) Also noticed during this time that my oil pressure would be at about 4.5 bars but after coming to an idle would go back to 5 when I put some rpm's on the motor. I figured that since I had the debris in the pan, this debris just partially blocked the pick up tube but now I don't know??? Could it be that the new sensor just has a different way of reading the actual pressure?? or could I have something else going on?
Have now driven the car on several occasions today and everything else seems normal.
I gotcha now. Your oil pressure is fine above 1 BAR after the oil get to operating temp. Honestly I dont recall, but I think that you not getting to 5 BAR as well is normal as well unless it is cold as hell outside. If it only got to like 3 or 3.5 BARs then I would have concern, but it seems fine at 4.5 or so. 4.5 BAR is like 65 PSI so you are way to the good.
On my car, I think the gauge won't read that high. It "pegs" a couple of needle widths below 5 bar. I am sure the actual pressure is higher then that. When hot, it idles 1.5-2.0 and pegs just below 5 bar at about 4000 rpm
As you can see in my Youtube video, at full operating temp, the low pressure was just below 2 bars and even though I am seeing a difference on the high end, the low end so far is the same (I never ran below 1.75 bars). I know I am just overthinking everything now because of what I found during my oil change. Hopefully I will forget about it as I put the miles on just as I did when I first got the car and was constantly thinking about "IMS" but it sure takes the fun out of driving when these kinds of thoughts are on your mind.
Got my oil analysis back and appears to all look good. Again, plan on performing another shortly. Also have now put approx 150 miles on car since closing up and refilling with new DT40, Have driven up to operating temp, running upwards of 6500 rpms and still sounds good and runs smooth. Did I dodge the bullet? only time will tell.
