*Another* M96 failure... Although I tried my best to make it last... on track.

I am sharing my experience with my 99 996C2 I use for HPDE and some backroads driving. This might be a long post, and I've distilled it on 996Rennlisters group on FB. A few years ago i bought a 996C2 with 92k and a good service history. Mostly a commuter car from the previous owners, I was looking for a new track toy as my Subaru WRX had gone up in flames just driving along from a leak at the oil cooler fitting sending a steady stream of oil onto the wrapped headers and igniting the car. Literally just driving along... faulty workman ship or parts I blame, but thats a different story. I took a lot of time to understand the many achilles heels of the M96. In fact, I didn't track the car until last september once I was satisfied I had done as much preventative bolt-on maintenance as possible. (I'll put the impossibly long list of parts below.) I switched to the good oil (5w40 Gibbs) and XP9 for track events. Bought a Boxster S and cut down on my road miles. Changed the oil religiously and would check and add oil at the track. I put a lot of money into new suspension, new arms, alignment, corner balance, seats, bolt-in cage, SSK, etc... since last year this little 996 has been treated to a host of new upgrades. My very reputable local porsche shops commented on how it was the best running 996 either worked on, and it was just a blast! I always joked it needed another 100HP and I'm sorry to my car if it sounded like I was unappreciative of every ounce of ponies it could muster. So, I have a 996, really good compression and leak down. It consumed a bit of oil but I drive it hard, not redline a lot, but I like to take it out, warm it up and give it a GO! Cooling Issues: Since I started tracking the car in September of 2016, I was noticing it ran hot- really hot. I addressed this in many ways, first being a center radiator, then taking Jake Raby's free advice of putting ducts the mated the GT2 aftermarket front bumper to the 996 rads. We cleaned the rads (again), an even put in exit holes into the fender liner and scoops from a 997 to redirect that to the brakes (inner fender liner, not like the stock ones which I also have). I also put in a brand new factory water pump as the old one was replaced at 60k (7 years prior). At this point, track temps were better and I moved on to other stuff like brakes, tires, etc. I had ALWAYS planned on setting the car up and then rebuilding the engine. I was told by one PCA instructor that I was really past the end of the engine's life for track work. He has one of the fastest Spec 996 cars and said I should think about a rebuild or a lower mileage engine, although it seemed to run well. The end of the 2016 track season my trans was making some awful noises and we replaced the diff, I was certain it was the wheel bearings but the shops were thinking it was the pinion bearings in the trans. We ended up both being right! I replaced the trans this summer with a Getrag factory rebuilt unit from The Racing Line with an OS Giken LSD, Spec R Stage 2 clutch and light weight flywheel and I replaced the IMS replacement that was done at 60k with the IMS Solution. I ran it, still felt some vibrations I didn't like when cornering and we did the rear hub bearings... now it felt like a new car. It's mid-summer, 2017 at this point. So, I give the trans and clutch some break-in time, then take the car to the track. It's fantastic. Could always use more power, but it runs well, likes tighter tracks and I pay special attention to oil level after every session and add when I need to. Redline 40w race oil for those oil fanatics. Car felt great, it's now corner balanced and seems happy. Change the oil, get ready for a 2-day event at NJMP Thunderbolt (Grand Am configuration with Turn 3 chicane). Fresh oil, awesome tires, FVD Baffled Oil Pan, IMS solution, 40w race oil, Castrol SRF fluid, ST60 Stoptech BBK in the front and Giro Disc in the rear with race pads and R888R's- 255 front and 295 rear on GT3 fitment wheels. Other than realizing I have too much front camber, I go about my day on Saturday running with some good drivers and have a blast. I checked the oil and surprisingly it was 1/2 way down on the dipstick (not bad I think) so I top it up to full and have a beer and get ready for Sunday. Sunday comes around- it's VERY HOT for September (mid 90's in NJ). I focus on smooth lines, running turns in 4th instead of 3-4-3 redline shifting, not pushing the high-G corners and picking up time in Turn 12. All works, I'm running 1:41's which is my best so far this weekend (fastest is 1:39 from 2 weeks prior when it was 74 and sunny) and getting a lot of point-bys... then the 4th session came. 4th session- Tires were greasy, these have 5 days on them now plus some street driving. I'm chasing my best friend in his 997.2 S and he's about 10+HP over stock (395hp). Everything is great, water temp is up to 228-235 so I back off and run the last lap slow. Its not an organized cool down lap, so I give it some gas to get to a good place to point 2 cars by and then::: :::ca-chug, ca-chag - Nothing::: 75mph mid-corner and the engine dies, I hit the clutch and start looking for an exit, I see some smoke in my mirror and stay way off line, it's a very short straight and I b-line for the infield knowing I've had a failure. I coast it out as far as I can towards an flag stand and access road and that's it. Smoke billowing out of the engine compartment, I realized I never did install that extinguisher and the track is 'hot' so I'm stuck in the car unless I see flames. Coincidentally I stopped at an unoccupied corner worker station. S&*%!!! First thought is the car is going to burn up. This is 5-10 seconds after the failure. Well, in the smoke that's wafting into the car I smell oil... but I smell coolant. The temp gauge it pinned to the red, I feel that there won't be fire if there is coolant too... but why is there coolant?! WHAT HAPPENED?! The safety crew is on the scene in a minute, fire bottles ready to deploy, trunk it opened and they say "No Fire, No fire!" But it's a MESS!! I am cleared to get out, they begin lifting the car to tow off the track... I'm bummed and thankful it wasn't a crash (a big one happened in the 3rd session). Here's what I know: Oil filler tube broke in half. The dipstick was also blown out. The drain plug is magnetic and a literal bush of metal that Jake Raby thinks "whats left of your crank bearings". When I drained the oil (We don't know how much it lost) into my 12qt pan (it runs a deeper sump oil pan and total oil capacity is 9-10qts) it came out in a FURY of coolant so fast I scrambled to find something else, filled that 12 quarts, spilled all over and put 2 more quarts into a plastic mini-tub. Water, metal, oil, 14-15qts total. ::This area reserved for later findings:: Despite my best efforts for longevity, I was told very frankly by Mike Bavarro of Body Motion "You have done all of the right things, but you are living on borrowed time. Your engine will blow... there is no way around that". This was in June when I was calling about the transmission. (they are close to me and the most focused race shop that will actually return my emails!) He was right, and no one, except for the internet, has ever told me different. Mike pushed me to get an oil analysis done, and I have the kit sitting here... was going to send today. In closing, what I want others to know is that YMMV (your mileage may vary) with the M96 and how you use it. I did everything right according to everyone... but I still suffered the failure. I want to share this story with anyone who might find it useful. I wasn't budgeting a rebuild this year, but I knew it was next on the list. Here are the list of "preventative" parts I added: FVD Baffled Oil Pan IMS Solution 40w race oil (either XP9 or Redline) Spin On Filter (prior to the Solution) Filter Magnet Magnetic Drain Plug New Water pump (plastic impeller) Center Radiator New Radiator Ducting and service. Mods bolt-on engine: Fabspeed full exhaust, no cats. FVD Throttle body (99 cable bored out to 77,8) IPD Plenum EVOMS Intake (I clean the filter regularly) Porsche Motorsports AOS Custom installed by TPS in Philly Underdrive pulley Other Mods: Elephant Racing Contol arms, tie rod arms GMG links Tarrett Sways Ohlins R&T suspension Stoptech Trophy Front BBK Giro Disc rear 328mm rotors Hawk DTC-60 Pads OZ 18x8.5 18x11 GT3 Allegritta wheels Toyo R888R Tires New Getrag Trans, OS Giken LSD, etc... RSS 930 roll bar, Recaro seats, B&M SSK, etc etc etc... Now comes the "what's next" and my bank account says "fun money is all dried up this year". I need to mow the lawn and I have a dead 996 blocking the mower. Maybe my neighbor's lawns need cutting too.. or UBER? I could uber at night when the kids are asleep... ok, that's silly talk.

Sorry to hear, don't really have any advice but to wish you the best of luck. Will be interested in seeing the pictures of the engine when the pan is dropped/or disassembled.

Oooof that's rough to hear. Have you considered selling your soul by chance? Not sure how much one fetches these days, but it's gotta be worth at LEAST an M96.

Ehhhhh...where to start! I guess first I should say, I feel bad about your engine blowing up, nice Novella! Next I'd have to say what did you expect? I don't see any real internal engine work done - The Solution is nice, but it's only part of the equation - it does nothing for the chains, crank, main bearings etc... The M96 is NOT a (good) race motor in it's stock form - this fact has been beaten to death on this board and others for many years. It sounds like you knew this in your gut, but decided to put a bunch of $$ into the suspension and a bunch of other bolt on's , yet did nothing to strengthen the engine! Now you've got a very expensive yet "well sprung/handling roller" on your hands...bummer! I wish I could say something brilliant and encouraging, but I'm coming up empty. Good luck with however you decide resolve the situation...

I've had whatever could be inspected, inspected, and I did know I would be rebuilding the motor "soon" but hoped to be doing so on my terms and timeline maybe? Maybe to last into next season?

same here. my boxster m96 pooped a cylinder after 3 easy track days. had deep sump, low temp thermostat, third rad, new water pump, fresh oil, blah blah. Its a junk motor for track work. Luckily I can find 3.2 motors for cheap enough that if one poops the bed every 2 years or so its not the end of the world. I just put a 3.2 in my car with a fat tune for track work. We'll see how long it holds up. Good luck. lsx swap???

****ty news! There was a failure at our local track a few weeks ago. Lots of smoke...lots of coolant. cracked block, I've never seen anything like this. I've seen holes through the block but that was after doubling the boost psi and torque of the stock engine. Never seen this happen on stock motor.... turds.

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This should be a warning to all that want to track these motors! "Soon" is never soon enough... If you want to track an M96, it needs to be "bullet proofed" (by a COMPETENT race motor builder with credentials - not a self proclaimed "Porsche expert"...). "Inspecting" can't be done without tearing the engine down... It's expensive and it will probably turn up more problems than you thought you had. **In addition - well built race motors blow up all the time too...It sucks, but it is what it is...

Ok, I think he gets it.

Sorry to hear about your loss, I know your pain. I think the best way to go about tracking a Porsche is having a dedicated Boxster, This way you can drop a used engine into it every couple of years, when it inevitably goes kaput.

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kinda sad you need a full blown race motor, with race oil, etc just to do a few DEs

I think you got so much invested in the chassis set up it makes sense for you to get another motor into her! Even if it's just a used motor without the massive cost of a full on rebuild!

but my 996.2 C4S keeps telling me to take her back to the track.... she's bossy!

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if it was as bad as some imply, my home track would be full of broken pcars. We have a good 10-15 different pcars running these engines and they go home every night. I know of a 997 and cayman who go every weekend. Other than bigger sumps, their engines are 100% OE.

Something to do with the lightweight flywheel? The lack of harmonic dampening of the dual-mass flywheel and an unbalanced crankshaft is known as Russian roulette. It can go perfectly fine on some cars for many many miles. But If your crankshaft has some metallurgisch manufacturing imperfections then it goes kaboom. Typical case of fatigue fracture as microcracks grow.

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just a matter of time. bad design is just bad design.

Yes, Ive had two on track engine failures. I love my car but after the third rebuild I preffer to switch up to a 996 turbo that can take the track days instead of suffer another engine failure. Not only is the cost bad enough, the time spent without enjoying driving is worse. What else are these cars for?

Sorry to hear this, the m96 motors aren't good for the track My bet is on a blown cylinder that sent coolant into your sump and steam out your exhaust. At 100k miles with almost certain oval cylinders; they simply split open under the harsh conditions.

Mezger race proven vs m96/97 good enough for DD and occasional DEs. You can compare the internals of the two and appreciate how over-engineer the former is. https://www.total911.com/technology-...mezger-engine/ However, with upgades (nickies, IMSS, etc.), you can make an m96/97 much more reliable but still can't solve the inherent weaknesses when used for tracks.

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This right here is so true. I will never understand why some people by the n/a car, spend a ton of money on "fixes" for the bad M96 design when they just could have bought a turbo and been done with it for similar money. No matter what you do to the M96 motor, the design flaws cannot be over come without spending a literal fortune on the internals, which likely puts past the cost of 996 turbo anyway. I just dont get it. Sorry for the rant but I see these blown M96 posts all the time and it is so well documented that I cannot fathom why people still track these motors; they just cant take it.

Sorry about your loss. Nice build and I hope you get it sorted out. In my opinion, 92k miles and 18 years is a long time for a track car regardless of how well it was taken care of if you don't rip it apart, check the internals, refresh what is needed and address the many documented ways this engine can grenade.

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"Boxter" motors aren't much cheaper - it's still a M96, just less powerful...If you want to race these things they need to be properly prep'd, or they'll blow up (eventually). The problem is, they don't give a whole lot of warning...One minute everything's great and the next, Kaboom!!!

I saw your post over on facebook and commented on it. The metal on your drain plug was burnt to a crisp! Do you look at your oil pressure gauge during your sessions after 5-6 laps? Just wondering if you were getting the pressure drops on sharp turns after a hard brakeing like many people are seeing? I'm thinking this is causing more failures than everyone realizes.

I wonder how difficult it would be to convert a turbo engine to normally aspirated as it's also a Metzger?? I know the gt3 engine carry a premium over the turbo engine, I bet a lot of the internals are identical, wonder if the turbo just runs lower compression pistons compared to the gt3, might be an option for someone looking to pump a ton of money into a standard M96 for track by doing a full rebuild, there might not be much difference to buying a used turbo engine and doing the alterations??

[QUOTE=AWDGuy;14497423]if it was as bad as some imply, my home track would be full of broken pcars. We have a good 10-15 different pcars running these engines and they go home every night. I know of a 997 and cayman who go every weekend. Other than bigger sumps, their engines are 100% OE.[/QUO sorry to hear about the engine,total bummer.......a little tired of hearing about these ticking timebombs we are driving,in 10 years of doing DE events,i havent witnessed a 996 blowing up,these cars can handle de events,perhaps along with the deepsump pan you should have done the accusump upgrade....who knows

Bummer. It sounds like you're a bit beyond a beginner - as speed increases so does the stress on the car. Your engine performed well for quite a while - until it didn't. That's not a unique trait of the M96. Keep us posted on your next move.

Sad story indeed ... with so much into the car invested save up to a dedicated track engine built? As for the damage and failure ... what you describe is that something really cracked inside. My (unreasoned) bet will be still lightweigth flywheel related, the crankshaft that went BOOM (see also here http://flat6innovations.com/index.php/broken-crank )

Having done multiple DE events over nearly a decade with around 60 percent of the cars being m96 engines, I have not seen a single failure there and I know most of the track rats in my region. some have the deeper sump kit, most run stock with upgraded suspension tires brakes and roll cages. most aren�t forum rats. these aren�t race events mind you so speeds maybe lower but these are sports cars - not racing cars - if you regularly participate in races you need a race engine. anyway I do think the theory of lightweight fly wheels causing problems is a real possibility - the engine is not designed for that

not seeing a car towed off the track doesn't mean that failures aren't occurring. As we can see, the motor may run, poorly, long enough to get on a trailer or get home. As for boxster motors not being much cheaper, I disagree. A decent boxster motor of 2.5, 2.7 or 3.2 displacement is generally no more than $4k, and deals can be found for less, especially on a 2.5. A decent 3.4 or 3.6 is more like $7k, unless you get a deal. Either way, these are just not real solid motors. Using a 996TT engine converted to naturally aspirated would be tricky. It runs something like 8.5 compression, so you would be way down on power, and on top of all the conversion work, you'd have to spend a lot of time tuning. With enough money its doable, but then you might as well buy a GT3

Exactly....I see just as many Z06's bring towed off the track....actually...I think this year I saw more Chevy engines blow a bearing than m96 being towed off....

also, plenty of guys use DE events as an opportunity to dawdle along on street tires and that isn't really gonna stress the engine. Thats not to say Z06 motors are any better, but shoot, my buddy has beat on his 993 for probably 100 track days over the past three years and the engine is rock solid. never missed a beat, and thats in black/red

Hi , All , My suggestion to help the m96 engine is to run 10w60 weight oil. Mantis Deep sump , more oil takes a bit longer for the oil get Hot, some of the foaming to die down. Oil temps are some high, lots of chains foaming up the oil. Oil cooling is what is needed. Some guys can drive fast, some drive hard ,that can be the difference,

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This is true that LS motors have oil starvation problems too. But you can get a rebuild kit for an LS for $500-$1000. It's easy to have all the machine work done and a full rebuild for under $2000-$3000. The M96 is just an order of magnitude more expensive to rebuild. So even if they die at the same rate, it's easy to see which is a better track motor. If the M96 was easier/cheaper to rebuild and upgrade, it wouldn't be a big deal. But people in this thread are saying the OP should have spent more than he paid for the car to rebuild the motor to race specs before doing a track day? That's crazy, he would be better off with a different track car.

LN's website seems to suggest that their Bilt 2 quart deep sump was equally effective as an Accusump. Consequently it appears they no longer sell their Accusump kit. Anyone know if this is true?

"But people in this thread are saying the OP should have spent more than he paid for the car to rebuild the motor to race specs before doing a track day? That's crazy, he would be better off with a different track car." I didn't make any allusions as to whether it would be economically prudent - I was simply saying that if you don't want these motors to blow up on the track, there's quite a bit of work that needs to be done to them... Also, the op did way more than 1 track day with the car...I believe he said something to the effect that it would be his last track day of the season (just one more track day, that's all I need... )

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they can certainly take it... the problem is the track 101 mods are done too late... the OP here certainly did his due diligence with great mods... but 90K on a motor and then doing all the track mods is too late.... track prep needs to happen very early in the engine's life to give it a fighting chance... the blown motors you are seeing fall into this category high oil usage is the sign - it's signals the cylinders have gone oval and the end is near.

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I agree. almost none of the M96 motors had this done and people are buying them at 60k thousand miles and thinking that with some relatively cheap mods that they can track them which is not the case at all. The M96 motor may have stood a fighting chance back in the day with some mods at the track, but no matter what you do to an M96 with 75k miles on it, it will not last on the track unless you sink a ridiculous amount of money into it before you start. At which point you would be better off just buying a turbo that (motor wise) needs nothing to go to the track.

There are a lot of valid points but I am most interested to find out once it is tear down, if this is caused by the light weight flywheel.

I'm betting one of the cylinders has let go or a rod bolt which took out the cylinder, when you doing the tear down ??

I'm guessing from all the coolant in the oil that the oil lubrication was compromised and all manner of "bad" stuff happened in there. Will be interesting to see what the disassembly reveals.

I don't agree with the "90k miles is too tired to do track work". I've tracked both an M3 with over 180k miles (20+ events) and a 996.1 with well over 120k miles maybe 14 times. The latter went onto a new owner who continued to track it, and daily drives it to this day without issues. Neither engines were modified. I've tracked turbos and GT3s as well. M96 seem failure prone, then again there's a selection bias to reporting failures on this board. Also, turbo motors fail also, I've seen it. No motor is bullet proof!

Agreed no motor is bullet proof but most motors don't cost 20k to rebuild either.

Posts like this certainly give me pause before taking the car out to the track more. But then I've also read posts from some who have literally put thousands of track miles on their 996s with no mods at all. One gentleman with a C4S specifically I believe claimed something like twenty thousand track miles without so much as a bafffled oil pan or IMS bearing replacement. I suppose no matter what car or engine it has a finite amount of time before it will go bang. Some live long and prosper and die with a whimper, and others live fast, die young, and go out with a bang. If used replacement engines were the same price as 986 2.7 engines ($2,500 to $4,000) I would track my car all day long and not care. As it is I love my car, but could not justify spending 20k to rebuild the engine on a car that I could barely sell for 20k. Unless I become Scrooge McDuck rich that is.

You don't need to be rich to rebuild but you should be comfortable having a hover porsche in your garage for a few years while you save. Lol

People seem to worry a lot about failure with these cars. This doesn't seem like something to worry about. If you afford it, run it, and if it breaks, be prepared to fix it. I haven't raced cars in years, but if I'm pretty sure I can't afford to race a 911 of any generation. If was going to get back into tracking a car and I wanted to run Porsche, I'd look into a spec boxster. That looks like a lot of fun and the motors are (relatively) cheap and readily available. I think it would be a lot of fun in a spec class, and make it more about the driver than the car. If I'm on the road or at a DE and I grenade an engine, after doing the necessary PM, oh well, stuff happens. If reliability was my primary goal, I'd just drive my Toyota and forget about owning a almost 20 year old Porsche...

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Hover Porsche! Yes!

Lmao

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Can you tell us more about this please? I am in the same boat cooling-wise and have aftermarket GT2 style front bumper. Thanks for your help! D.