Considering 996

Hi! I have found a 1999 996 C2 near my home that I am considering for purchase. I was able to talk to the previous owner on the phone for a long time to get as much history about the car as I could. The car has 93k mile and has not had IMS or RMS serviced to owners knowledge. The car was owned in Ohio for awhile and the owner states in the last couple of years he had the car checked at Stoddards and was told there were no leaks and that he did not need to upgrade the IMS. One other thing he told me is what is really troubling me. He told me, and this is confirmed on the Carfax, that he has only driven the car 5k miles in the last 10 years!! Its only been driven to car shows and PCA events. Does that sound like a problem to most of you? From reading about these engines it seems that the ones that are driven regularly are the least likely to have a problem. Where I live and where the car is located is only about 1 hour from Flat Six Innovations here in GA, I would get a PPI, but after reading everything about these cars I am afraid of what would be found. I can afford the car, but it sounds like no matter what I would at least have to put several more thousand into it to drive with piece of mind and I don't think I can afford that. It seems to be just too much of a gamble. I guess I need to save more money before I can really afford one of these great cars!

Paragraphs make your stream of consciousness easier to follow. Try it - you might like it. If you can't afford to fix it if something happens don't buy it. If you can, get a ppi and go from there.

It sounds like a really good prospect if you are going to jump in to the pcar club. Having 10 years of history is SOO important. There are way too many stories of people buying them with no real history and then finding out they go shafted. Ideally, if you bought it, you would put about 3-4K into and have the IMS, RMS, clutch, AOS and water pump done in one whack. You should be pretty set for the next 3 years depending on how much you drive it. If that number is out of your range and a 20k engine rebuild would be financially catastrophic to you, it would probably be best to wait a few more years before buying a Porsche. There are stories of people driving 50k miles and having no issues, but the odds aren't in your favor and they can get really expensive really fast. The previous owner of mine spent almost $10k on it the year that he owned it (I have 3 years of receipts/history). It's a great car in really good condition, partly because he took such good care of it, but he couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Good luck and my best advice and can give you is this. We can rationalize just about any decision, but in the end, go with your gut. It will almost never let you down.

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Editing and reposting makes the paragraphs disappear. Not real intuitive if you are a first time user but I'm sure you already considered that.

99's have double row bearing and their failure rate is much less. Remember, just because these cars are cheap, they are not cheap to maintain. Maintenance its like any other car that costs 60k - 95k.. If you can do the maintenance on your own then it wont be as bad..

Do not buy this car or any Porsche 911. If you can't afford $3,000 - $5,000 in repairs at any given time, DO NOT BUY A PORSCHE 911. You are considering a 911 with 100,000 miles on it that has not been driven regularly in FOR TEN YEARS. It might be worth it if you can purchase cheap. Assume $5,000 for maintenance on DAY ONE. The fact the IMSB is original is a major plus in my mind. At least you KNOW what you're dealing with. There is a Rennlister selling his 2002 911 for $18,000, seems like a great freaking deal to me. If you want to gamble take that gamble instead. Old Porsches are expensive to maintain. New Porsches are expensive to maintain. Some Rennlisters might chime in, "I've only spent $2,000 in three years." Sure that's possible, but it is not probable or the average cost of ownership. If you are not doing all the wrenching yourself (which will require a large and diverse set of tools) it's going to be fairly expensive to maintain any 911. I personally think it's worth it (obviously) but a lot of "non-Porsche" people think it's crazy to own a Porsche.

Hey Doc! I was also in your shoes just a year ago when I was thinking about buying a 996. You have money to buy the car and have always love the thought of owning a Porsche, BUT you just don't like the idea of owning something that would costs so much to service and you're scared sh*tless thinking about being the next "I told you so" IMS failure victims. Am I right? Don't let the "it's going to cost you a fortune to own" crowd stop you from buying your dream car. However, the 996 is about the best value of Porsche at the moment. First of all, what is your budget for the car? Is it $15,000, $25,000, or what? What kind of Porsche do you want? C2 or C4, Coupe, Cabriolet, CS4, Turbo, or what? Do you want the Mk1 or MkII version of the 996? Why I'm asking you these questions is because all 996 cars have different things that are great and not so great about owning them. But overall, they are a blast to drive. Nothing compares to it. I've owned many muscle cars, but the handling and power of the Porsche is second to none. My 996 was a one-owner car service only by Jim Ellis in Atlanta. It's a MkII and I've had NOTHING go wrong with it. Could something happen?... of course! But I'm not living each day worried that at any minute it could die. Have I put money into it... yep! I've changed out the stereo system, repainted the console and seat backs, replaced the brake pads and rotors, replaced a engine compartment strut, changed all filters, repaired dents, refocused the XEON front headlights, repaired the convertible top mechanism, replaced brake lights, changed the oil/filter twice in 5000 miles, etc etc. But the key things to look for are leaks or unusual noises like knocking, squeeking, or tapping noises as well as discoloration in the coolant. Does the owner have detailed documentation that states the IMS and the RMS was replaced? Overall, what's the service history of the car. The best thing you can do to avoid a nightmare car, is get a PPI done. There was one done on my car performed by Jim Ellis and it passed with flying colors, but again, that doesn't mean you want have service issues in the future. If you want reliability, then buy a Corolla, but if you want performance, then buy the Porsche. Just don't get the two mixed. Cheers!

take into account the earlier 996 had the most problems. Not to say that one has problems. Before you buy ANY car have it inspected at a porsche dealer. Have them look up all the warrantee service records and since you know what dealer was doing work have them give you all their records too. then decide if you want to buy it There going to tell you everything it need to have done to it

I've got a 99 C2 and just turned 79,000 miles on it with the original IMS and RMS. No issues except for regular maintenance stuff. Sure it's got a few dings and scratches from the kids, but overall it still looks really nice and drives very well. Best of all, it's paid for. So even if I have to repair some things from time to time, it's still cheaper than a monthly car payment.

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The bit underneath where it says edited is usually a clue to that.

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This is total bull. There were problems initially with some 98-99 996s with manufacturing issues. Those were weeded out years ago. I drive a 2001 and had a US model 1998 Coupe, which according to most, doesn't even exist. The 99 is the best of all the water-cooled 996s in my opinion. First dual-row IMSB, second cable-operated throttle, third cable operated frunk and engine lid, fourth the lightest 996 and fifth, if you are lucky like I was, a genuine, albeit conservative, LSD available. A C2 996 drives very much like an older air-cooled 911 just a little tamer. Each year they became less like the old 911s and the C4s are very tame, almost too tame.

The 996 is a great buy. The IMS is way overblown nonsense, especially if you have the '99 double row. You are looking at a less than 5% failure rate. You are talking about a 170+ mph car for less than a Honda Civic. My 2003 Land Rover Discovery engine has something like a 100% failure rate, so the 996's 5% failure doesn't bother me one bit.

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True. False. In the real world of 996 ownership, as opposed to the AOS/water pump/IMSB/RMS are 3 year wear items crowd, these are very reliable cars. There are lots of 996s happily tooling around on the original IMSB and I don't know of any aftermarket bearing that has yet racked up 250k+ miles, many originals have.

There is a completely different approach that with the benefit of hindsight I favor. First find the Indie who will repair & maintain the car. He would do the PPI. Ask him bout cars his customers own that my be for sale.

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Not if you do it within the first few minutes.

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Sure if your going to have a Indy or dealer do the work, but if your doing the work yourself this doesn't matter. When I had my SC it was going to the Indy every other week for something small, it added up. I had to the money to throw at the Indy, so it didn't matter. If you have the money to throw at the Indy or Dealer for $3k+ then do it, but if your a DIY then put that money towards mods or enhancements to make your 996 better. PS all vehicles are expensive to maintain, I have a SUV that needs about $750 in parts for maintenance, I'm doing the labor myself, If I have the dealer do it, it will be around $2k for the work.

I stand by my advice to this particular OP about this particular car. Probably not the car for you. We don't have enough information. The OP states he can't afford putting "several thousand" into the car after the purchase price. Okay fine, so whether or not that might be necessary depends on the car. This particular 996 described probably needs some things, why you ask? Well let me tell you why. Its got almost 100,000 miles on it and hasn't been driven more than 5,000 miles in 10 YEARS. Maybe the car needs nothing or maybe it needs brakes and rotors, oil change, coolant flush, transmission oil, brake fluid bleed, polyrib belt, tires, spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter, tie rod, exhaust system, differential oil, motor mounts, and a left front blinker. Who knows. Questions for the OP: How much is this thing? Will it be your only form of transportation? Can you do basic auto repair yourself? Do you have a really good set of tools? How much is this damn thing?

Lol it cracks me up when new people post here and the regulars make it seem like the car is a grenade with pin removed. What's he asking for the car? Like any car get it checked out.

I think if you are stretching yourself financially to buy a Porsche then it isn't the car for you. It makes for a much more pleasant ownership experience if you go into it knowing that the purchase price is just the beginning and a few thousand dollars of expense soon after purchase is normal (and affordable). I would also discourage you from buying a P-Car at this time.

"If you can't afford to fix it if something happens don't buy it." The utilization of commas must be expensive where you live. If you're going to bust ***** over written English skills, try proofreading your own gibberish prior to posting. You're welcome.

Just to continue being a contrary old cuss, while there is anecdotal evidence that cars that are driven more often are less likely to suffer failures, most of what I have seen also implies low overall mileage. This car has been driven a lot, just not lately. Does it still apply, who knows? The previous owner was a PCA member and drove the car to car shows and PCA events. Does not sound like a negligent owner to me. Almost any used car needs some initial repairs depending on the new owner's level of tolerance. Throwing a bunch of expensive parts into a car at purchase just because somebody else's broke once is insanity or at least fiscal suicide. Now, my biggest concern if I were looking at this car is "what type of PCA events"? If the car has been used for a lot of track/autocross/DE events then I WOULD replace the AOS upon purchase. The stock AOS is not really designed for track use and truthfully, to me, looks like it was a Rube Goldberg fix for a problem during cold weather testing.

I have owned a 2001 986 S a 2000 996 and a 2015 Macan Turbo Both of the older cars had very low miles when I purchased them and have required only wear items to be replaced other than a right wheel bearing on the 2001 986 at about 40k miles ( fairly common) The Macan has spent more time in the service center at the dealership then the old cars. ( fried DME) If I were looking for a second 996 I would shop for the cleanest lowest mileage example that I could find that had the options I wanted. The chances of a higher mileage car needed maintence are greater - but having said that there no way to really know in advance what a 16 year old car will need and when. If you really want a 911 figure out a way to make it happen but shop for at least a couple of months and get the right one it will make all the difference in the the cost of ownership. I looked on line almost everyday for about 6 months when looking for a 996 MK1 and I had no doubt that I purchased the right car for me. They are great cars and I enjoy it every day

I hope the OP checks back to read all of the wisdom we have provided for him. Otherwise, we are all just soapboxing in the wind.

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And you think this group has a problem with that?

The early 996 s I see are such beautiful cars I would or often think of buying one. First you need to find a local independent shop and have them do a PPI and then decide what you are willing to pay to own such a beautiful yet relatively expensive car to own. I often think about it as I see them on the road. I will say I now have 98k miles on my corvette z51 2008 model year. It's been so utterly reliable and has such high performance I can't make the move so I'm thinking of owning both. You might be better served by a low mileage corvette....top speed is 190 mph.....zero to sixty in four flat, 1.0 lateral cornering g s....targa top...27 mpg on the highway and cost of repair is minimal...I had aftermarket interior done and a d shaped beautiful leather steering wheel installed....the car is my daily driver and is a blast.. That said independent shops for Porsches that my friends use only pay 110 an hour and the guy who owns the shop and his crew only charge that amount. If I bought a Porsche 996 that's who I would use. Find a shop like that possibly from a local Porsche club. Figure the five grand repair costs and split the difference with the seller.. The 1999 996 s I see on the highway always make me smile. Just a pretty sports car. That said if money is tight after purchase I'd suggest passing. I hate spending money on car repairs so I personally hesitate, Just wanted to join in the conversation as I too see the allure. I do believe the Porsche mystique will increase the value as it has done with other 911s...over time. I don't believe you will see any depreciation in these cars. I believe the 996 is at its lowest level. That should save you about three grand a year compared to other sports cars plus you lol get to own such a pretty sports car. Just figure 3 grand a year maintenance...if you can swing that...and realize you'll probably never have any depreciation so it's a pay me now and not loose later proposition... Just food for thought... How much is he asking for the car? I say do the PPI... 93k miles is nothing on a 17 year old car. Have fun deciding... Some corvette guys love Porsches too.. JB

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Actually I think they are quite skilled at it! :P

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I have no problem with that! LOL! I thought we are having fun "sharing" stuff. So did we scare the OP off?

Well, if I were the OP I probably would have quit reading about the time I was told I was too poor to own a Porsche, or maybe when he was told that, even tough none of us has seen the car, it probably needs everything but the seat belts replaced.

Seeking my first 911 I appreciate many of the comments on this form. That being said I normally don't post much just hide in the background and try to learn. I plan on having one partially as an investment but truth be known more to drive, my question is trying to place a value on the cars. Seems like the higher mileage say after 65000 to 70000 the value seems to take a dive. Is there something special about that # I was trying to find a car with a bad IMS so I could build the motor and have seen 3 go at auctions but they were more money than I think it would be worth by the time you build the motor you can buy a driver, then spend 5K on improvements and go play. For me this will be for pleasure not a DD . The question is is there a suspension problem or something else that shows up around this mileage any help is appreciated. If you know of a project I would still consider this option as well.

I think 100k is the perceived cross over number and 65k just seems a lot closer to 100k than 50k. You also see a lot more low mileage cars than with most other makes like the '99 with 39k miles in the other thread. (WTF? Get out and drive the sonobish. . So that changes the perception even more. But unlike an E60 M5 where 80K means prepare for the engine to blow, there doesn't seem to be a magic number in the 996. FWIW, with our company fleet, we sell all of our trucks at 95k miles (some are just over a year old.) There is a lot of data on resale value combined with maintenance costs that shows this as the sweet spot economically.

Porsche or no Porsche, the OP's issue is that he is buying a car but can't afford the maintenance. 996's are cheap to buy but can be very expensive to maintain. Forget about the IMSB. My 2003 with a great PPI needed an AOS, water pump, serpentine belt and a few assorted small repairs. All in the first year. It doesn't make financial sense to buy a car that has the potential to break your bank. Also, worrying about the potential costs will surely dampen your ownership experience.

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OP? He still hasn't logged back in since he created the post. But I agree with your assessment.

Maybe the OP will return and advise us on the details. But, if paying cash(no payment), I can't think of more bang for the buck. Know the repairs and costs, know a good mechanic or be one. And research the specific model. Set your car payment money in the "repair fund" and drive the life into the car. From my experience , these cars are for the most part, dead nuts reliable. And then there's the fun, unquantifiable. My is a 2001 C4 Cab. with 54,000 when I bought it. I had it looked over as I had it looked it over by my mechanic for fleet trucks as he owns a 911. 2 things were needed right away, tires($1300) and a BBS 2 piece rim sealed. It has been my daily driver for a while. I would rather spend $3000-5000 a year, when it comes, than drive anything else. I think if you pick the car right, take care of it as recommended, How could you go wrong? Although if the OP is not prepared for a $5000 repair out of the blue, its probably not for him.

I've had my 2000 C4 ME for 4 years and put 20K on it. Now at 80K with original IMS. Only issue I've had is the water pump which is known. Just had oil change and inspection done and the car remains flawless and reliable. Highly recommend! The advice about having money for repairs applies to any car you own especially any high performance. Enjoy! There really is no substitute.

I'm ~30 days and 2.5k miles into ownership of a 2003 C2 manual/73k, new front tires ($450 for Mich PS), PPI ($288), annual service ($375), and driving to Colorado next week to have the solution installed ($3500). This is all expected and happily paid for as I knew there would be a hurdle to clear to get the car in proper shape. Did the pedals this past week and like the feel of the new ones. These cars are too much fun not to tweak them a bit to your liking. There's a cost for the platform though, without question.

After 9 months and 25,000 miles (including a recently completed cross country road trip) on a 1999 C2 6 speed manual coupe with 57,000 miles when purchased that cost around $21K, my thoughts are: 1) I had budgeted $5,000 per year for maintenance and repairs. The cost so far has been $1286. 2) Gets amazing fuel economy on the road (27 to 29 mpg). Not to mention it being a conversation starter at most fuel and meal stops. 3) Can you think of any other car that can rack up tens or hundreds of thousands of miles of that many smiles? There are so many 996's for sale, I will just get another if this one explodes. Or after it's racked up a quarter million miles. Which at the rate I'm driving might be sooner then later?

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+1 There is nothing worse than seeing a derelict 996 pull up next to yours at a stop light... well maybe a ricer 996 might be worse.

Found a pic of the OP.

Why are we wasting our time with this thread? The OP has not answered any of our questions and has yet to make another response. Lame!

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Ha, his allowance would cover the lease of a new one. Why's he messing around with a 996? Maybe he's conserving so he can blow all his dough on bottle service at the club. You just never know with kids these days.

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FIFY. Doesn't this apply to all threads?

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At least we get a shirtless picture of you in boots! hahahaha

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I have no idea what you are talking about. :P

Does this ring a bell cowboy? HA!

They don't look near as good without the matching mount they go with (which I haven't been on since I started working on my C2.)

He doesn't look happy about it either Slakker!

Lol, that sucker acts more like a dog than my dog does. Always following you around to see what you are doing. He'd had a long day and was pretty pooped in that picture.

The 3.4 is a bit more reliable than the 3.6 in my opinion , the ims is double row and the cylinder walls are slightly thicker so not as much bore scoring so I've heard anyway !! When I rebuilt my engine the double row ims I pulled out was perfect , in fact most things were, the main things I found were worn vario chain pads in the heads , exhaust valve guides were shot and the valves needed a good clean , heads needed de coking and re grind on valve seats and that was it, at 100k, not bad I think!! Overall I would say that depending on your budget things will need to be done eventually if not out of necessity to keep the car running at optimum performance , as things get worn and coked up performance drops the longer things are made to go on. I really believe that it is possible to work on these cars without being a PhD in mech engineering , if your careful and make sure you have the right tools for the job and take your time , as long as you don't mind your car being laid up for a while you car do these jobs yourself , over a winter, drop the engine and box, split them , new ims/ Rms , clutch , water pump, get the valve covers off, do the vario pads, maybe get the heads off and refurb the heads too!! all good fun if you like getting your hands dirty and there's plenty of info around now, hell Jake even runs a class to tell you how to do it !!