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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWheel bolts/lug nuts too tight?
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Replace they had noted
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
When I brought in my car to have the flywheel replaced they had noted that the previous mechanic I took it too over tightened the gearbox housing bolts with an air gun.
Leading evidence: 'Replace they had noted' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'cheap one of there is not enough air supply' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check lugs carefully' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
For what it's worth I have encountered this on other project cars (over tightened) frequently.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
When I brought in my car to have the flywheel replaced they had noted that the previous mechanic I took it too over tightened the gearbox housing bolts with an air gun.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Thanks JTT my concern is that the dealership may have used an air wrench or over tightened them as I only had it serviced on the 2nd.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I use discount tires and they use impact wrench with a torque limiting stick, then followed by hand tightening with a torque wrench.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
When I brought in my car to have the flywheel replaced they had noted that the previous mechanic I took it too over tightened the gearbox housing bolts with an air gun.
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Hi all,
I cannot get my wheel lugs off! Actually to be precise I tried to get my left side rear wheel off and couldn't.
I'm trying to replace my 997 wheels with my original 996 ones.
So far i've tried:
- Large ratchet - useless
- 1/2 drive 650mm breaker/cheater bar with a 19mm impact socket
- 312Nm impact air wrench
Got my car back from the main dealership here in Melbourne during the week and I'm now guessing the dealership put the wheels back on with an impact wrench?? One thats stronger than mine!
Surely at least 2 of those options above should have removed a lug??
Thoughts? If I got a flat there is no way the original tool kit could help.
Very frustrated
I'm no factory trained technician, but first I'd try giving them a good soaking with penetrating oil of some variety and let them sit overnight, then try again. The other technique with stuck bolts would traditionally be heating the block they are threaded into. Since this is a little awkward with wheels, perhaps getting the brakes good and hot on a run, then trying??? My concern is breaking off the bolts, but at some point, if they won't come off, breaking doesn't seem such a concern.
Thanks JTT my concern is that the dealership may have used an air wrench or over tightened them as I only had it serviced on the 2nd.
Id assume (which I guess I shouldn't) that they would taken all 4 wheels off? I guess I only tried 2 bolts on the same wheel but if I can't get that wheel off it's not worth taking off any of them.
The air wrench I got was cheap it only does 312Nm whilst say the kinchrome one I looked at goes to 1600Nm or something ridiculous.
Dan, in that case, I'd be going back to the dealer and have them remove and re-torque these properly. Clearly they were over tightened, if you can't budge them. Spec is only 130Nm if I remember correctly. My other concern would be damage to the bolts from being over tightened so badly. This can lead to micro fractures in the thread that can later break. If using an air gun, they should be using a torque limiting attachment, then hand torquing them.
Remember with the air wrench, pressure and air volume make a huge difference. I had a pretty decent 1/2" impact that wouldn't consistently remove lug nuts from my truck. Turned out it was because my old compressor couldn't deliver enough air.
Thanks JTT ill be getting in touch with the dealership tomorrow .
The air gun and compressor aren't the best the gun isn't as good quality as the compressor.
Although with a 650mm bar and 19mm socket they should have loosened.
I would say your impact is likely a cheap one of there is not enough air supply to make it work. Most times a 1/4" I.D air hose is not sufficient in supplying air volume to an impact. If your trying it with an electric impact they are useless.
If you can't break them loose with the breaker bar then something is seriously wrong. Either you are incredibly weak, or not trying hard enough, or they are all cross threaded on or the wrong nuts...
Id take it back to the dealer because if you break a lug or wheel! it will be their responsability. Inform them to torque the lugs to 96 lbs like they are supposed to be. I hate to let anybody touch my wheels for that reason, they dont know what they are doing
Why were the wheels taken off at the dealership? I agree that if they took them off and replaced them, they should cover any resulting damage.
Whenever I get new tires I always re-torque the bolts and check the tire pressure as soon as I get home. It has never been correct.
If the dealer won't do it for some reason, try using a long breaker bar or put a two foot long pipe over the end of your ratchet.
as far as wheels and tires, I haul all mine to the shop in my van. Period. My car never goes to the shop for wheel or tire work. When it is necessary for the dealer to do any warrantee or suspension work I always have a conversation with the first and specify torque. One time the car was in the shop for engine work, they found they had to take the wheels off. when I got it back I had to use a 2' breaker bar, and a 2 ' pipe to BREAK the lugs off. I immediately called them.
What would happen if you had a flat at nite and had to take a wheel off?
Thanks all, good to hear everyone has a very similar mentality.
The air gun I bought was very cheap im returning it because it was useless.
Definitely will take my wheels to get replaced and not the car, I like that idea.
My concern was exactly that, if I got a flat somewhere I would not be able to get them off at present
Calling the dealership today
I've said to tire shops on more than one occasion: "please make a note on the work order not to over torque the wheels". They come back over torqued every time. Now I always bring the wheels in loose - can't trust them.
I think this is common practice to crank the nuts on with an impact wrench. First reason it's fast and less time for the mechanic and two it's reducing liability for obvious reasons. The only places that use a torque wrench are usually the very expensive boutique shops that are already overcharging you for the extra time.
My concern is changing a flat, if I cant get them off with the standard emergency tool kit i'd be in a world of trouble. Aside from carrying an electric impact wrench! Haven't heard back from the dealership so ill keep everyone posted.
When I brought in my car to have the flywheel replaced they had noted that the previous mechanic I took it too over tightened the gearbox housing bolts with an air gun.
I had to get a specialist to remove the bolts and check the threads. Based on that you'd assume they wouldn't do up my bolts with a air wrench!
At the price I paid i'd expect the right torque to be used.
The dealer should take care of it with no excuses. You can bring a tire iron and demo to them how you or their mechanic can't loosen the bolts.
I use discount tires and they use impact wrench with a torque limiting stick, then followed by hand tightening with a torque wrench. Costco is even more impressive. They tighten each wheel in 3 stages. First while the wheel is in the air free rotating, following by a wheel choking the tire suspended in thr air, then final torqing with a torque wrench after they lower the car fully to ground.
I have never had this problem with the 996 as the only two times I have taken it to a local shop or dealer they specialized in Porsche and use the proper procedure so when I take off the wheels for suspension/brake work..no problem removing. I only use the impact wrench to remove the wheels....torque wrench only for installing.
For what it's worth I have encountered this on other project cars (over tightened) frequently. I use an I-R impact wrench rated at 550 ft-lbs with 5 adjustable settings. My home compressor delivers 7 scfm @ the normal tool air supply of 90 psig w/ a 30-gallon receiver and it will still dance around for a while to get stuck bolts off. I upgraded the air hose to 3/4-inch. Even the 1/2-inch hose was limiting the wrench noticeably. As mentioned above, air delivery is important to get the rated tool performance. Also, use impact sockets (hardened) if you have them. Regular sockets may slightly dampen the transmitted torque with flexure.
You may want to consider replacing the over tightened studs/bolts as they and the threads may have been torqued beyond yield.
Good luck with this. At least you're finding out about it at home and not on the road.
Yep - a lot of shops just tighten with an air impact - so if you find shop using torque stick / wrench - that is a start
i,ve seen lug nuts tightened so much - the only way I could get the wheel off was to stand on or even jump on the breaker bar.
one time even snapped my harbor freight bar (note to self - Chinese steel quality might not be good)- at least they replaced it .
get the pb blaster in there first .
Definitely lucky to find this out now!
I was using a kinchrome wheel 19mm impact torque bit so that was all good.
Not too sure about the compressor it's not the greatest but it wasn't as cheap as the gun!
I might upgrade to the 500Nm air wrench. Bought a brand new kinchrome 1/2 torque wrench too but didn't get to use it!
This actually happened to my grandfather, he got a flat and the one bolt was on so tight a shop had to destroy the rim to get it off the car! Can't trust a rattle gun in anyone's hands. . .
Dealership noted there were no notes on the rear wheels being removed from the last service.
Last time I was at the dealership I had some minor body work done in the rear wheel wells by a place they recommended it might have been them that over tightened them.
Anyway they are sorting it out this week
I did exactly that! As mentioned earlier I asked the guy behind the counter to make a note NOT to over torque the lug nuts (getting new tires). After they finished I took my 20" breaker bar from the trunk (larger than the lug wrench that comes with the car) and they wouldn't budge. I handed the breaker bar to the guy behind the counter and said: "You try it". He couldn't get it them either. I asked him how am I supposed to get this off on the side of the road when I get a flat? He saw that I was upset.
I any case I only bring in wheels loose now.
Stick a pipe over the end of the breaker bar. Something will have to move with the additional leverage. Like others have said, check the lugs carefully. If you can't easily spin the nuts on and off by hand the lugs have been stretched and should be replaced.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Dropped at the dealership this morning for them to re-torque and replace my 997 rims with original 996s with pirelli P0 rosso all round.
I'll be replacing the P0s soon with pilot sport 2s but as per everyone's advice ill be taking them 2 at a time loose!
If it ever happens again, take a cheap socket that fits over the lugs (I believe its a 19mm) and hit the socket with a hammer. Shocks them for lack of a better phrase . Then crack them loose by hand or impact gun, whatever tickles your fancy.
Dealer tech that deals with this all the time.
