45 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
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YOUR RESEARCHHelp just broke down
Leading reported evidence
Clean contacts) and drove it miles
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Small update, last night started the car (with the old fuel pump relay with cleaned contacts) and drove it miles to make sure it was fully warmed up, then parked it for 50 mins and went for a re-start.
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Suggestion · Original poster
EDIT: I can read real time data from my code reader, should I try reading some parameters from the engine when its running to check anything in particular?
Leading evidence: 'Clean contacts) and drove it miles' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'fuel pump.is failing' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check anything in particular' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Tried three times and finally it fired but ran very weird and low on power.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Well before i set off after 1.5 hours of sitting I cranked it again and it seemed to start up ok, so I have some investigating to do
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Suggestion · Original poster
EDIT: I can read real time data from my code reader, should I try reading some parameters from the engine when its running to check anything in particular?
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Check anything in particular
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Read evidence and context
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Suggestion · Original poster
EDIT: I can read real time data from my code reader, should I try reading some parameters from the engine when its running to check anything in particular?
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Small update, last night started the car (with the old fuel pump relay with cleaned contacts) and drove it miles to make sure it was fully warmed up, then parked it for 50 mins and went for a re-start.
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
When I tried cranking the car when it wouldn't start I did try giving it some throttle and it seem to have no effect on the pitch of the engine, so no more laboring (due to more air input) no spluttering or change of pitch, so this makes me think perhaps the gas recirc valve is no faulty.
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Suggestion · Original poster
So still scratching my head on this...I will replace the relay when it arrives and try this test a few more times to see if it fails to hot start again.
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Suggestion · Original poster
stopped my car 2000 cab about 1.5 hours ago was running perfect but got back and it won't start, turns over and cranks fine but not a splutter like it has no gas.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
45 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
Didn't work, I jumped the fuel pump relay contacts with a few twisticks together, I tried cranking and no start.
stopped my car 2000 cab about 1.5 hours ago was running perfect but got back and it won't start, turns over and cranks fine but not a splutter like it has no gas.
its getting dark and I'm in the middle of nowhere plus have a small child with me, what should I check???
help appreciated I'm panicking
So I suspect my fuel pump relay contacts are going bad, I made it back to my campsite for the night but tomorrow I might try pulling the relay, popping it open and cleaning up the contacts to keep me going for a couple of days until I get back home.
can someone point me to which relay? I have minimal tools but I'm very handy. Thanks!!
I think the relays are located above the fuse box on the door side of the driver's footwell. this is a picture of a 996 with the pump relay removed and a jumper wire inserted. this will run the pump whenever the ignition is on.
Hopefully, somebody with more knowledge will post.
That's a good pic. Actually the pump will run whenever it's jumped (key doesn't need to be in the ignition). The relay power pin is always hot.
The relay is in position #13 shown here
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post13490245
What kind of helpdesk will give you a response within 3 minutes??!? Does not get any better then that! Hope the problems will stay away while you are travelling.
DT Miller came to my rescue earlier this year from a similar post. I was 600 miles from home with a flat rear tire and, as it turned out, a cracked rim. Within a few minutes of posting my dilemma, early on a Sunday morning, he messaged me that he didnt live far away, and he'd lend me his wheel and tire to get home. Can't beat this place!
You guys rock! I will have to find some wire and see what I can do to make a jumper, if it gives me problems again I will jump it and see if that works.
+996!!!! Sadly, I have seen some NOOBs voice their displeasure that this forum (i.e. its members) are a SNARKY bunch and have either left or threatened to leave. Their loss
"Snarky" can be funny! Perhaps those who bail are too full of themselves and have no idea that it is ok to laugh when someone is poking fun at them. Seems like too many people these days have the "I'll take my ball and go home" syndrome. Life is too short to take everything so seriously. The above examples prove that most here are good folks.
Moments like this is where the true camaraderie that exists here shines through.
I find this forum to be quite snarky, with pride... but that's part of the draw to this place. That said, despite the snarkiness it's the moments like this; the instance which SouthernMan pointed out; and the volumes of hard learned information that is constantly and unselfishly being shared here which make up the overwhelming majority of the appeal for me.
Clearly, a true 996 driver needs snarkiness! What forum would you have without a certain amount of banter! Happy to be part of this, I like it; if you don't, bugger off I'd say..
Volkert
My fuse box doesn't look like the one in the pic with the jumper, so the one from pelican I counted 4 from the right and 3 up from the bottom, on mine the space is empty. It's a 2000 cab, did they move the relay to a different location?
Edit- looks like it's the pink one!
If it only happens on hot restart the problem could also be the recirc valve in the engine. Next time try holding the throttle open to see if it starts quicker.
If the valve is stuck open it allows gas fumes into the throttle body causing a rich mixture. It lives in the engine compartment hanging off the left side of the throttle body.
Regeneration Valve from Throttle Body for Fuel Vapor System
Part #: 996-110-129-53-M100
guess I'll find out, it started fine this morning and I found some wire to make a jumper to jump the relay, if that doesn't work I'll look elsewhere
I'm kicking myself now for not bringing my compact tool kit I carry on my motorcycle, I'll be packing one and getting AAA for the long trips I'm planning next year with my son
I drove a few miles engine not quite fully hot and stopped it for an hour and now it won't start again, I tried giving it some throttle while I cranked to clear any gas fumes, not even a splutter it turns over nicely sounds like no fuel. Going to make a jumper and try that, if I get it going I will get back to my campsite leave the engine running and pack up and head home
Didn't work, I jumped the fuel pump relay contacts with a few twisticks together, I tried cranking and no start. After a min I noticed the twisticks got slightly warm so they are carrying current.
so I think my fuel pump is dead.
i have one more trick to try before I call a tow truck, I'm going to try pulsing the pump power by touching the jumper rapidly, if the pump has any life in it it might unstick it and make it go....
Well I tried the jumper and it didn't work to start the car again, so then I tried putting the ignition on and cycling the jumper on and off to try and get the fuel pump un-stuck if it was sticking.
Still didn't seem to work, so I put the relay back in and gave it two more cranks and on the second it fired up!
Not wanting to take the chance I drove right home, swapping cars now and heading back out in my boring but reliable chevy lol
I did manage to catch some nice twisties on the way back!
So when I parked it in the garage I switched it off, then after a few seconds back on and it started right away.
Then off again and a few seconds and start again, again it worked
So it seems to be a hot soak problem or maybe something else?
I'll still put a new fuel pump relay in and somehow check the function of the fuel pump. I'll also pull that emissions valve and test it, when I get time..
Chris: Glad you got it home. Problems that come and go, seemingly at random, are the hardest things to troubleshoot. I wish you well and keep us updated.
FYI the pump relay is identical to MOST of the other relays so you can swap any with same part#.
Fuel pumps are getting old & some are failing, more fuel in the tank keeps them cooler & happier.
Im far from an expert but after some starting issues a couple of years back, I would replace the ignition switch. Its a cheap part, quite esy to change and seems to cause no end of weird electrical issues.
So back from my camping trip, would you believe it my chevy this morning threw 2 CEL's and then refused to charge when I got home...
The chevy got fixed easy, a couple of CEL resets due to faulty sensor and coolant low.
Now on to the 996, just plugged my cheap code reader in and no stored codes.
Does this rule out the crank sensor being faulty? would that be stored?
When I tried cranking the car when it wouldn't start I did try giving it some throttle and it seem to have no effect on the pitch of the engine, so no more laboring (due to more air input) no spluttering or change of pitch, so this makes me think perhaps the gas recirc valve is no faulty.
If the intake was full of exhaust gas wouldn't it clear on an open throttle after a couple of seconds of cranking?
I think I'm going to pull the fuel pump relay, go get a new one from autozone or somewhere and then open the old one and examine its condition.
Then I'll do some googling on testing the fuel pump.
EDIT: I can read real time data from my code reader, should I try reading some parameters from the engine when its running to check anything in particular?
Next time it doesn't start use your code reader to check the crank position sensor by monitoring the real time rpm .It should register the starter motor spinning -low rpm but enough to verify cps is probably not the culprit if no signal cps is probably the issue .As far as the fuel pump there is a test port on the fuel rail -if the pressure is at spec with your jumper wire then the pump is probably ok .I don't know the 2000 model but on my 99 there is also the external fuel filter which could also be a candidate .
Will do.
I couldn't find the exact relay at pepboys so I'll order one online, in the meantime I popped the fuel pump relay open, I think its the original one as interestingly there is a black spot on the inside where the electrodes have worn and discharged material against the plastic wall. I cleaned up the contacts until my new relay arrives.
I jumped the relay and in my semi quiet garage I can hear the fuel pump running. I couldn't hear it when I was stuck as I was parked on a busy road.
I'll do as you suggest and take the code reader with me and probably more tools next time I go out. Thanks
EDIT: started the car after putting the relay back in, started first turn. I didn't drive it yet, when it was cranking the rev count didn't seem to move at all
Small update, last night started the car (with the old fuel pump relay with cleaned contacts) and drove it miles to make sure it was fully warmed up, then parked it for 50 mins and went for a re-start.
It started perfectly, no hesitation on the first crank.
So still scratching my head on this...I will replace the relay when it arrives and try this test a few more times to see if it fails to hot start again.
I might also pull the emissions valve and check it this weekend.
Likely the fuel pump.is failing. Next time it doesn't start, check for fuel pressure by unscrewing the fuel line on the drivers side of the fuel rail and see if you have any pressure. it only takes a second to confirm if any gas comes out as you turn the ignition switch on. Don't need to crank the engine.Sometimes you can tap on the bottom of the tank to rattle the fuel pump a bit. Replacing the fuel pump is straightforward as long as you don't have a full tank.
I recently logged a posting about how my engine would sometimes only run at maybe 1/2 power, and this was after a run and then parking, after which, loust running and difficult to start.
I thought I'd found the problem......vacuum leak at the oil filler cap.....but the problem came back yesterday. Engine would crank like a mother but would not fire up. Tried three times and finally it fired but ran very weird and low on power. This happened twice yesterday.
Today, took it into the shop that did the starter recently. They checked everything they did and found all to be ok. Then they did a scan and found the crank position sensor had logged errors. They replaced it. Engine seems fine now.......fingers crossed!
I posted this long winded reply because the OP symptoms sound identical to mine so maybe that's his problem too. Hope get gets/got home ok with the child.
Update to this, I ordered a new crank position sensor and a new fuel pump relay.
Fuel pump relay is in and I just tried to put my car up on ramps (driving it on) to swap out the crank sensor.
Well the car started fine and I attempted to put it up, I had to stop for 10 mins and then re-attempt.
When I tried again the car started as normal then after a few second the engine suddenly cut off, now won't start.
I tried jumping the fuel pump relay and I can hear it running, also not even a splutter from the engine.
I planned on putting in a new FI relay but hadn't done it yet as its buried under my convertible and hardtop.
Next thing I will try is plugging my reading in and see if I get an RPM reading from live data while the car is cranking. As I understand if no reading then the crank sensor is dead...
UPDATE: just plugged in the reader and cranked, ZERO rpm shown on the real time data output while the engine cranks, can anyone confirm this absolutely means its my crankshaft sensor? I'll be swapping it out anyway as I bought a new part. Thanks everyone!
UPDATE 2: took off the old crank sensor and measured some of the pins compared to the new one, found between two of the pins 1kohm resistance on the old one its infinity. So it looks like my crank sensor was dead, I'm darn lucky it worked long enough to get me home from my camping problems
Still got some clean up to do and a few other small things while the car is up in the air. Will report back on if all goes smooth once back together.
The Diagnostic Prize goes to EXTanker way back on Page 1:
"if the ecm sees no crank signal it may shut off fuel pump "
Hence the failing,heat-soaked CPS gave the spurious symptom of relay defect.
Well done ExTanker !
