Winter Tires and Wheel Options

So, my trusty 92 Corrado SLC which I bought as a winter car when I had my 07 RS 4, now turned into my restoration project, and as such I don't drive it in the rain anymore and especially not in the snow. This is mostly drivability related to the supercharger that I added, as the filter and MAF sit right at the bottom of the bumper, and will just pick up all the snow and slush in the winter. That is too bad too, as the car was virtually unstoppable with the Wintersport M3's that I had on the factory rims. So, I need to get a winter setup for the Porsche. Granted it doesn't snow much here, but I will get a set of dedicated winter tires regardless. I am debating on replacing my dry-rotted Contisportcontact 2's with snow tires on the OE rims, and then getting a different set in the spring with new summer tires on them. Or, I'll keep the 18's as the summer tire setup and get a set of 17's with winter tires, which will be the more cost effective method. Other than tirerack, where are places to look for winter wheel/tire packages for the Porsche? Perhaps some of our advertisers sell a setup? I'd even be open to a set of used winter wheels/tires. Also, what size are you guys running for winter setups? I have the 18x8/18x10 sport wheels on my C2, so that fitment in a winter tire is going to be both expensive, and also not ideal. Thanks, - Anthony

I bought a set of replica Sport Technos that are made in Italy from Wheel Enhancement, Inc. They shipped them with tires mounted and ready to go. I ended up putting Blizzaks on them. Mine are 8x18 in the front an 8x10 in the back, which is slightly smaller than the OEM 8x11s currently on my C4S. A set of new replica Porsche wheels cost me just a little bit more than a single OEM wheel. I felt it was a good option for snow tires. There are good deals to be had on Blizzaks right now because the LM-25 is being discontinued. Tirerack has good prices and has wheel/tire packages too - so you might consider them as well.

What size Blizzak's did you put on the rear? I don't see a 285/30/18 fitment in any snow tire. Also, does anyone know the offset of the factory sport carrera wheels? I want to make sure the ones I buy for winter are at least the same, if not larger offset. - Anthony

I got a great deal on 'scratch and dent' 17" turbo twist wheels from Tire Rack and Dunlop snows. Very affordable and more than adequate - you will have better traction w/ a narrower and taller snow tire. There have also been good used sets F/S here, so search around for a great deal (might also want to check local Craigslist to avoid shipping costs). Good luck!

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Winter tires are 265s. Narrow tires provide more traction in the winter. Weight/sq inch into a smaller contact patch.

Winter tires for the C4S are 265/35/18 also.

Ok, so then I assume my OEM wheels are actually 18x11, not 18x10 then. Is this correct?

Oh, and yes, I am aware a narrower tire is better for snow traction. However, it snows literally 2 or 3 times a year here, so I'm not that worried about snow traction compared to dry traction. Sure I could do a set of all-seasons, but these V rated snow tires are quite capable in the dry/wet. - Anthony

Newbie question regarding the winter tires - I currently have 225/40/18 front and 295/30/18 on the rear. With the recommended 18" winter tires (225/40/18 and 265/35/18) will they fit on the existing wheels or do I now have to get new wheels for the winter tires?

One comment about using the term "winter tire". There are actually two categories as far as I'm concerned 1) Full blown snow tires like the Blizzaks 2) Winter sport tires I've used both. I've switched from full snow tires to the winter sports based on the amount of snow we get. Much of the winter season, it's cold here, but there's no snow on the roads. A few days each season there's actually snow on the roads. You give up a little snow traction with the Winter Sports but I find during the other 90% of the season, they have less squirm than the full snow tires. They still have very reasonable performance characteristics in snow conditions. When there is snow, they do a great job of traction; not up to full snows, but much better than all season tires. Also, there is not as large a difference in performance going from summer tires to Wintersport as there is from summer to full snow tires. However, if I lived where snow was on the road much of the season, I would go with the full snow tire setup. Whichever route you choose, definitely get a second set of rims. I can pop a set on and off in about 30 minutes. It sounds like you don't get much snow, so you may want to research the winter sport setup. Several manufacturers offer them. I have the Dunlop WinterSport M3 setup. Just my opinion on the subject.

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It sounds like you have a C4S then? Are the rear wheels 11x18? If so, you'll need to buy some 10x18 wheels to run the Porsche recommended 265 tires. I think you can probably find another snow tire that will fit your 11x18 wheels, but you'll have to change the width and/or aspect ratio from the recommended sizes. C4S and turbo models have factory 11x18 rear wheels that take 295s, while C2 and C4 models have factory 10x18 wheels that will take 265s.

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11x18 for C4S and turbo, 10x18 for C2 and C4.

Bridgestone now has a BLIZZAK LM 60 IN 275/35/18 that could fit your existing rear rims (bit of a stretch but still within safe limits).

On my C4S stock wheel I've run for the past 6 years 265/35/18 Pirelli Winter Sport 240. The wheel does stick out so you have to watch the curbs. I also run them at 40 psi in the rear and not the recommended 44 psi. Since my first set of rears wore out in the center, lowering the pressure now has even tire wear across the whole width. I just noticed that the new blizzaks LM-60's have a 275/35/18 these would fit better on the C4S 11' rear wheel.

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I agree those fit perfectly on a 11" wheel. It still is not recommended by Porsche but this is a new size and first time I have seen it in a winter tire. I run the 265 on the 11" wheel while Porsche recommends a 10.5" wheel. Though reading up at tire rack I found this. The .5" is not really that out of spec. Additionally, some vehicle manufacturers and tire companies have permitted rim widths that are not within the tire's original approved rim width range. For example: BMW has combined 235/40R17 sized tires on 17x7.5" rims (which are 0.5" less than the narrowest 8.0" wide rim listed for the size) on certain M3 models; and Chevrolet has combined P255/50R16 sized tires on optional 16x9.5" rims (which are 0.5" wider than the 9.0" wide rim now listed for the size) on certain Corvette models. While these applications have received the approval of the vehicle and tire manufacturers, staying within the approved rim width range helps assure that the tire's internal stresses are within its design parameters.

if running "snow tires" get a second set of wheels and have them mounted - I run 18's in the summer and 17's in the winter (recently sold) but then you can just swap then wheels in about 20 minutes and drive, no additional cost or risk to your summer wheels by putting them on a tire machine to change tires. NB - I had 17" twists with 9x55 rear and 7x55 fronts running 225/45 rears and 205/50 fronts...Blizzak LM25. this combo was a stretch but the car handled like a dream in the snow last year - just posting my numbers so in case anyone else has a NB they have some data point.

I'm going to use Yokohama Ice Guard IG30, F: 215/45-18 89Q & R: 245/40-18 96Q with 7�x18" et50 & 9x18" et 52 wheels, looks like 2002 Carrera wheel but originates from Boxster. IG30 is a new model, full snow tire, most likely not yet sold in North America. Done very well in Nordic car magazines' tire tests. I'll get them on Friday. Oh yes, the car is '00 C2.

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I'm from Calgary so I would require full blown winter tires. So it sounds like the LM-60 Blizzaks are the way to go if I just want to use my OEM rims on my C4S. Has anyone from Canada used Tire Rack to order tires? Just want to know what their experience has been with them.

I had a set of the 275 Blizzaks mounted on 11 inch Turbo Twists on Friday. The front face of the wheel is fine but the inside lip of the rim facing the car is exposed a bit.

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With this in mind what, if any, are the risks of damaging the wheel or safety being compromised?

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I'm intending to get new wheels next spring/summer so I would just keep the winter tires mounted on the OEM wheels.

FWIW, I run the Pirelli Snowsport 240s on my car, on 18" rims in exactly the same OE size as my summer tires. I find the car to be extremely capable in the snow with these, and that's without AWD or PSM. These would be my choice if I lived in Calgary, too, speaking just for myself. You're dealing with a huge variety of surface temp conditions in the winter, from arctic cold to spring-like mildness. In that part of the country, I would worry more about temperature than precipitation, which is why I'd pick the winter performance tire over a *****-out snow tire. (Calgary's annual average snowfall is barely more than Toronto's. If I lived in Ottawa or Montreal, I might choose differently). http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/phys08a-eng.htm Just another data point for you.

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BruceP, last year they had 295's for the snow sport 240's but this year they are not showing up @tirerack as an option to buy.

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I went with the OE spec size for my car, which was 265-35-18 on the back and 224-40-18 on the front, so I didn't run into that obstacle. Tirerack has three brands in these sizes, I think. Bridgestones, Dunlops and Pirellis.

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ah. ok. I know pongobaz is running 295 or were they 285's in the rear but they are not available anymore.

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I just got off the phone with the local Porsche dealer and he said that he has Pirelli Sottozero's in the 295/35/18 available but that they only come in 235/40/18 for the fronts. Anyone have experience with these tires on a C4S?

On my 1999 C4 (NB) Coupe: 17's for winter Front: 205/50/R17 on 17 x 7.5 Offset 52 Rear: 255/40/R17 on 17 x 9 Offset 47 No spacers required. I swap to 18's for summer. IMHO - that is less $ in the long run, since the change is easy in the garage or $5 tire if your feeling lazy or don't have a floor jack. Otherwise you pay for mount/balance each season (2 seasons, 2 changes, $20/tire = $320). Typically, I can get two winter seasons out of a set. You could push it to three safely for "point A to B" driving, but the performance drop with worn winters is far more significant in the snow that worn summer tires on the dry. Once the depth of the "sipes" get low, they being to lose their grip. ...at 50%, they will still be better than all-seasons due to rubber compounds and aggressive tread designs. I am in Colorado, where we get lots of sun in the winter - between storms. We have lots of days with dry roads up to the ski areas. Thus, I use a "winter sport" speed rated tire (LM-25, unfortunately discontinued in the above sizes on the LM-60). I have run snow tires (Nokian, Blizzak), including studded tires on a number of cars. The snow and ice grip is amazing with studs, but the sacrifice is that the studs are slippery on dry, they are loud and wear fast. I'm tempted to try running the C4 with studs, but it is low on the "mod priority list," for such a specialized component. However, if I lived where ice was on the road much of the winter, it might make more sense. Presently, on other cars in the family, I run Nokian winter truck tires on an SUV and Dunlop M3D on an Audi wagon.

I think the other thing to consider is that in snow, a tire that is slightly more narrow (a 265 vs. a 295) will probably provide better traction. If you are driving mostly in cold weather and not snow, then the 295 should be fine.

shameless plug for my 17"'s for sale: https://rennlist.com/forums/6654049-post1.html

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This is the conventional wisdom for deep snow, but it doesn't apply if the issue is traction on slippery surfaces. Speaking for myself, I don't drive the car in really deep stuff, so my preference was for a larger contact patch rather than the ability to cut through stuff. On ice/wet pavement/very cold pavement with modern winter tires, that gives you more margin of safety.

True, I think fronts are cutting thought the deep stuff anyways. So the rears are not as important as the fronts.

Hi all, I have a full set of snows from my '02 C4S. The rims are replica technos, the same wheel on the '04 C4S. I used them for 2 winters, and they are pretty clean. I have Blizzak LM-25's all around. The tires have half the tread left and are unbelievable in the snow. I never once got stuck and the car is so well grounded with the set. The rears are 10's, and I have the spacers to correct the stock look for the rear. I think I paid about $1700 all in. I'm willing to sell the entire package for $800.00. Please email me directly at [email removed] if you are interested. I live in the NY Tri-State area. Tires are still mounted on the wheels, so shipping would be a bear. Thanks, and sorry for barging in here. J

I went ahead and ordered the Blizzak LM-60's (225/40/18 & 275/35/18) from Tire Rack. Came to about a grand cheaper than any price quoted locally in Calgary - and the fact that they're being delivered directly to the shop that's going to install them is a bonus! Thanks everyone for your input into this thread.

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I would think that even though you have a larger contact patch, you still have less weight per square inch on a wider tire, which may not necessarily lead to improved performance or traction on slippery surfaces. I'm just speculating - I'm sure that there are tire experts that have looked at all the data and could tell us for sure.

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I think the value of narrow tires is that they cut through soft stuff to find a firm surface. That's about it. Otherwise, the basic nature of the mechanical grip that sticks a wide tire to warm pavement is the same as the one that sticks it to cold pavement, ie. a bigger contact patch is better. The critical difference with a winter performance tire is that its compound stays sticky in colder temps, and its tread is designed to manage moisture better than a typical summer performance tire can. The idea that more weight per square inch helps with traction on ice is kind of counterintuitive if you think about it: Consider a skate blade, which uses exactly that principle to generate a lubricating layer of water. I went with OE widths because I don't drive the car if the snow is more than spoiler-deep, or there's slush piled up between lanes such as after a storm. Then, you'd be right, a narrow tire would be safer. But I prefer to trade off those rare (around here) days in exchange for keeping some of the fun to drive quotient. I don't think there's a right or wrong choice, just the compromise that suits your conditions.

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On the stock 11" wheels 265 is too narrow and not recommended. The new 275/35 LM-60 is a better idea. If fits better, and looks better.

I have a daily driver 996 C4S (live in Kelowna, BC). Bought new rims/tires for summer, and mounted 225/40R18 DUNLOP WINTER SPORT 3D (front) and 275/35R18 DUNLOP WINTER SPORT M3 (rear) based on Damon's Tirerack recommendation. They worked wonderfully and look fine on the stock C4S Turbo Twist 2's. Loved it. Wonderful winter car. But my rears are worn out... so plan to replace them with the 285/35ZR18 SP Winter Sport M3 (if the aspect ration is OK)... Damon? Anyone?

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Not recommended. 285/35 is about 26.2" tall vs. the 25" tall front - outside of the 4% they recommend you stay within. You risk doing differential damage doing this. 265/35 or 285/30 with a 225/40 please.

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I hear ya. My knowledge of tribology is more in the realm of artificial joint replacements and other load bearing applications. In those situations, a larger surface area means less weight per square inch, and means the forces are distributed over a larger area. As a result, the two surfaces slide more easily against each other, and there is less wear. The same thing seems logical for a tire - larger area means less weight, meaning easier sliding. Obviously sliding is a bad thing in the case of the tire. Right or wrong, I agree that the proper tire compound is the most important thing. I can't imagine there is a huge difference in terms of grip between a 265 and a 285 on ice or snow.

The physics of a tire on the road, where traction is concerned, aren't really about load bearing. They're about mechanical friction. Exhibit A is race cars, which are both lighter than street cars and employ larger contact patches to achieve higher lateral adhesion, adhesion being the key, here. To illustrate, imagine dragging a hand towel across your living room carpet. Now imagine dragging a bath towel across that carpet. Which one is going to take more tugging to make it slide? It's a lame but essentially correct analogy for the way that rubber and asphalt stick to each other. And it's why bigger contact patches mean more traction, regardless of vehicle weight. Braking depends on the same physics. (With regard to wear, remember that a tire is meant to sacrifice itself to its job. A tire that didn't wear would suck.) What winter tires do is preserve the mechanical friction that would otherwise be lost to temperature, when summer rubber hardens (I think they call this 'glassing up' in the business). A tire for deep snow is narrower because it's trading off adhesion for the ability to find a firm surface. It's a compromise I wouldn't make with a tire that was going to spend most of its time on cold, wet pavement at highway speeds.

Thanks for that clarification. I appreciate the analogy. I absolutely understand it for dry applications, and I think you've given me a better understanding of it for wet/snow/cold applications. I guess the thing that made me think differently about it (aside from what I mentioned above) is the fact that many people in my part of the country put extra weight in the trunk or truck bed during the winter to get more weight on the drive wheels during the winter. This tends to make you think that the force per square inch issue is more important, justifying the need for a narrower tire. You see what I mean? Thanks again for the clarification. In my case, I ended up going with the Porsche recommended winter tire sizes, which are 265s for the rears (not exactly what I would call a narrow tire anyway) vs. the 295s that are on for summer. I'm sure they'll do fine.

Anyone ever try the Toyo Proxes 4? I just got a note from my old tire guy about this tire being available in low profile, 11 inch specs. (I run their T1R on the 19s, mostly because it was the only tire available that would fit without rubbing at the time). The T1Rs are excellent rain tires in general, as long as you keep your foot out of the power in the cold. I just did a road trip up to montreal and back in 45 degree weather, raining buckets for 750 miles up and down a couple of weeks ago, and even with 14K on the tires they were flawless, however they are approaching replacement in the near future. So apparently the Proxes 4 is M&S rated (Mud and Snow). While I have an AWD car for the snow, it would be nice to have an all season, cold weather tire that could handle some slush from time to time, just so I can take advantage of clear, cold winter days. Plus I like the idea of just having one set of wheels and tires (since my 17s seem to have disappeared). I run 19X8.5J ET40 up front and 19X11J ET67 out back (and I have some extra spacers in case I need another couple of mm back there). Available in 245/35 R19 and 295/30 R19, RDs are 25.7 and 25.9 respectively. I'm currently running a little short at 315/25/19 out back which at full tread depth is 25.2" RD (same as many 997 fitments) Price look like 270s for the rears and 170s for the fronts, so very inexpensive for 19s Any experience/opinions on this Toyo Proxes 4 tire in the cold and any comments on the RD?

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Yup, I run 295/35/18 for the rear matched to 235/40/18 front; you need to go to the wider front to keep the front/rear rolling diameters within tolerances so not to confuse the ABS/PSM sensors. Yes, the Snowsport 240 are no longer available at TR (I did find a new old-stock set of rears locally to replace my worn ones), but they've been replaced by the Sotto Zero II in the same sizing. Contact Damon, he'll set you up.

bump because I know this is gona come up again very soon. Looks like for a C4S the Pirelli Winter 240 Sotto Zero II 235/40/18 f 295/35/18 r are the best choice still for winter performance? any new stuff out there to be aware of?

If anyone is looking for a set of OEM wheels in great condition (only 18k miles on the wheels) and as-new Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25's (only 3k miles), I'm selling mine. I sold my Porsche earlier this month, so I have no need for the wheels. I'm located in Northern VA. Pics:

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Size, offset and price?

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Did you end up trying all season tires? if so, how'd they do?

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18x8 ET50 225/40/18 18x10 ET65 264/35/18 I'd like $1600 for them.

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Still have these if anyone is interested.

So I just bought my first Porsche in February and I'm trying to plan ahead for next winter by finding wheels and tires. I have an 02 C4. Does anyone know if these wheels would fit and what size tires I would need? I do IT not ET unfortunately. Any help you give would be wonderful. I'm going in circles with my research. The wheels I'm curious about are below. 17x7-17x8.5 Turbo Twist came off a 1998 Boxster. Two are 7" width (ET 55) & the other two are 8.5" width (ET 50) Part number 996.362.124.00 for 2 & 996.362.126.05 for the other two.

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Those should fit ... the 17" rears for the 911 are 9" wide, so they may not quite fill out the rear wheel well. I'd probably wait for a set that had the 9" rear wheels, but that's just me. There is a wheel fit chart at http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/inf..._chart/porsche Your real problem is likely to be finding properly sized snow tires for the rear. Stock sizes are 205/50-17 in the front and 255/40-17 in the rear. AFAIK you can still get the 205/50, but 255/40 is hard to find.

I have these exact wheels for my winter set on a C2. Agree that the rear doesn't look quite filled out but they work well. Mine came with tires from the prior owner and yes I anticipate I will have trouble finding tires to fit on them.