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YOUR RESEARCHPossible buy...Thoughts please
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need a relatively small maintenance item
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I have run in to sellers that once they perceive a problem the dump the car,, I've picked a couple up that sounded really bad, but turned out to need a relatively small maintenance item fixed.
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Suggestion · Original poster
808/phan...A 911 is a car I've never had, I'm retired from the Army and have been checking off bucket list cars for about 16 years now, Mercedes SLs, e39/e38 BMWs, numerous Corvettes, a couple of 928s just to mention a few.
Leading evidence: 'need a relatively small maintenance item' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'need a relatively small maintenance item' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check off bucket list cars' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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A friend of mine has a 99 cab 80k miles and has a ticking noise from between the 4,5 cylinders (used mechanic stethoscope).
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Suggestion · Original poster
808/phan...A 911 is a car I've never had, I'm retired from the Army and have been checking off bucket list cars for about 16 years now, Mercedes SLs, e39/e38 BMWs, numerous Corvettes, a couple of 928s just to mention a few.
Clean ppi, and good documentation, if you can swing it
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Suggestion
It really is worth starting with a good example, with a clean PPI, and good documentation, if you can swing it.
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Suggestion
Wait a minute...$9 k ASKING...it's worth a good look over first....test drive at least 1/2 hour in "all" conditions...if it passes the "Not A Rat" test..PPI...for sure
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Check off bucket list cars
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Suggestion · Original poster
808/phan...A 911 is a car I've never had, I'm retired from the Army and have been checking off bucket list cars for about 16 years now, Mercedes SLs, e39/e38 BMWs, numerous Corvettes, a couple of 928s just to mention a few.
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Suggestion
Wait a minute...$9 k ASKING...it's worth a good look over first....test drive at least 1/2 hour in "all" conditions...if it passes the "Not A Rat" test..PPI...for sure
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Suggestion
I look at it this way, use the fact that these cars do have issues and use that to your advantage to negotiate, but also do not let it scare you from buying one.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
need a relatively small maintenance item
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Reported cause
I have run in to sellers that once they perceive a problem the dump the car,, I've picked a couple up that sounded really bad, but turned out to need a relatively small maintenance item fixed.
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Going to look at a 2002 Carrera Cabrio, 106K miles ask is only 9K. Current owner says it makes a ticking sound (I know, not good) but drives well without any issues. I'll know more when I actually see the car (Friday or Saturday). He has no idea if IMS/RMS has been addressed, so not during his ownership. I'm at the very beginning of this process and haven't run background checks or asked for or seen any maint. docs. I recently missed out on a killer deal on a high mileage Mercedes e63 because of hesitation about the head bolt issues that plague the car. Any thoughts as to what symptoms to look for that could indicate issues? Or thoughts in general on the car.
2002 Cabrio
I've searched and read the forums, this would be my 3rd Porsche (2 928s previously).
TIA for any feedback
9K is roller territory - I'd be EXTREMELY cautious! That car should be going for around 22K, why isn't it?
Get an extensive PPI done by someone that knows what they're doing.
Oh, and that dent on the door?
Does the top go up and down perfectly? Condition of the top?
I'll cut to the case... More than likely this car is experiencing the core symptom of cylinder bore scoring. Eventually, this engine will have to be completely rebuilt. Most people misdiagnose the ticking sound with a noisy lifter, but on the M96, the sound is usually coming from the cylinders. If you bore scope cylinder #6, I'm almost positive you'll see scoring. Check out Jake Raby's videos on the topic to learn more:
You Tube
Yeah, walk away. Too many decent cars out there to buy one with a potentially fatal problem. He'll tell you his mechanic said it's a lifter, but it almost never is.
No such thing as a cheap Porsche.
Wait a minute...$9 k ASKING...it's worth a good look over first....test drive at least 1/2 hour in "all" conditions...if it passes the "Not A Rat" test..PPI...for sure
That car is a Mk 1, so 2001 or older, not 2002. If the owner is not even honest about the year of the car, I'd keep looking. Too many red flags already.
The owner knows he has internal engine problems and is trying to dump it off on someone else...Maybe $5K is worth a look but not $9K.
It's not an 02 and the stated mileage is not the same as odometer.
Just because it's ticking doesn't mean it's automatically bore scoring. What maintenance has been done on the car? If nothing major has been done at that mileage it'll probably need new chain guides, cam pads, tensioners, etc.
Thanks for all of the responses, I watched the entire video series. I always question why, after visiting the forums, that anyone (myself included) buys these types of cars. I've had many and always learn something when I venture out to a model I've never had. Each enthusiast car has it's weak points that are discussed at length on the forums, the bore scoring was something I had never heard of until I arrived here, it was just the IMS/RMS that was commonly discussed. I will know more when I actually talk to the current owner later today (text only to this point) and then hopefully much more when I see the car in the next couple of days. Thanks again for the comments, I will keep the thread updated as I learn more. BTW, this will be a third vehicle that is driven on weekends/recreationally.
100 miles is not a "road trip"... These are awesome little sports cars, but don't be blinded by how good it feels - at their worst they still feel great compared to most other cars. If you buy a car with problems it WILL be a very expensive proposition to straighten it out properly... you've been warned!
I was in your situation a couple weeks ago... The seller was up front with the issues it had though.
Definitely mention to the seller you want to get a PPI done first...
So an update....Ran a Car Fax and there is an extensive service history and I was able to contact the shop that did the PPI prior to the current owner purchasing. Lots of minor things but the inspection did note that there was a definite ticking noise that sounded like a lifter (thanks nutty prof.) so probably bore score and it is in fact a 2001 not a 2002. Oh well...back to the drawing board. Thanks for all the advice/responses.
What's your budget and are you looking for an auto/cab only? I've been able to put a couple of buyers and sellers together from here.
Are you following the Craigslist thread?
808/phan...A 911 is a car I've never had, I'm retired from the Army and have been checking off bucket list cars for about 16 years now, Mercedes SLs, e39/e38 BMWs, numerous Corvettes, a couple of 928s just to mention a few. I would love to find a 911, budget isn't a huge deal but don't want to go crazy either. Miles also don't scare me if the history is correct. I'm handy and have friends that are handier so can tackle most issues without too much heartache. I think the 996s represent a segment that has been undervalued/neglected, that's why I'm looking there for my entry into the 911 world.
At that price it's pretty tempting to buy it as a parts car. I would not buy it expecting it to be reliable transportation. I'd buy it expecting it to be a total pile of junk and part it out. Negotiate down as hard as you can. You have a ton of leverage since these are cars everybody assumes are on the verge of exploding anyway, so nobody is going to want one that's already documented to be making weird noises. IF it turns out to be fixable on the cheap, great!! If not, a temporarily-drivable Porsche 911 for under $10k that has a number of valuable parts you can harvest if it does blow up seems like a decent deal.
I'd throw one option in,, if you can beat the price down ,, and have the assets to afford say a 25K version,, your budget is 15-20 for motor,, read the rebuild thread ,,
I could see if the car was a 10.5 in terms of chassis, but a 1.0 on motor,, there is a chance you could have a really nice ride..
I have run in to sellers that once they perceive a problem the dump the car,, I've picked a couple up that sounded really bad, but turned out to need a relatively small maintenance item fixed.
IN the end do you value time or money..
I just want to say that a majority of people on here always seem to be doom and gloom. Now I know these cars have their issues but people act like every problem happens to every car and that just simply isn't true. Now could it be bore scoring, sure. It could also be a bad exhaust gasket. Hell I've seen a bad coil arching out that didn't create a skip in running, but did produce a ticking sound. Point being is if you are interested investigate further. Have the PPI done and make sure there drop the sump and use a borescope.
I look at it this way, use the fact that these cars do have issues and use that to your advantage to negotiate, but also do not let it scare you from buying one. The percentage of failures is minuscule in my opinion to the production numbers. In life, people like to promote bad more than good, you have a bad experience at a restaurant, or with an airline and you tell everyone and their mother about it, but if you have a wonderful and you tell no one. That seems to be the way life goes...
Mike...couldn't agree more, I may still go take a look at it. I usually gauge the car by owner responsiveness and this guy doesn't seem too interested in selling, no follow up after our initial message conversation so who knows. I'll give him a bit more time and see what happens.
If you take a simple little mechanic's ear (stethoscope) and listen to bank#2 concentrating on cylinder 5 and 6, and there is ticking, then what else could be causing the ticking noise if it's not cylinder bore scoring?
Did I miss where he said he did that? If he did then yes I agree but all I saw is he said there is a ticking. It literally could be hundreds of things. My suggestion wasn't to ignore it and just buy, it was to investigate further. He could possibly score it because its something stupid.
So, here's a question...finding out it's a 2001 not a 2002 and an in service date of 6/2000 there's a chance it has the duel row IMS bearing which from my reading are less prone to failure, that coupled with an otherwise fabulous service history makes it interesting enough to take a look. Assuming one or more of the bores are scored and I can wrangle it for 7K what am I looking at as far as a refurb is concerned? Worst case is IMS and a refurb, again what might I be looking at to add to the purchase price?
There is no "refurb" on these. Scored cylinders ends up being an invasive rebuild with new cylinder liners. Cost wise, teens and up into the mid-20K $$. A member recently (within the last couple of weeks) priced out the current rebuild options and laid them out nicely. It might be worth looking for that thread. It really is worth starting with a good example, with a clean PPI, and good documentation, if you can swing it.
Also, 2000 production date is no guarantee of a dual row bearing. That model year seems to be hit or miss, some dual, some single row. Nobody, not even the most experienced people, or Porsche themselves can tell you which ones have which. You can only tell by dropping the transmission and taking a peek.
You are right Professor, it obviously can't be anything but that.... I sorry I go against your magic 8 ball and all knowing wisdom. It could be that and most likely is but doesn't have to be.
Didn't mean to open a can of worms...the current owner isn't being very responsive. I've tried to get him to talk to me for 2 days now with no luck. I would at least like to get a look at it, if for nothing else but comparison sake for when I look at others.
Its all good, and its probably bore scoring, but its worth a look in my opinion. For nothing else to help you get a better understanding of what to look for. Next, Nutty P will be telling you all about the IMS bearing yada yada yada....
Every car has their issues, find a good example you like, buy it, drive it and smile. Like is too short to fear a car you own...
Valve lash, rings worn, loose spark plug, yea the stethoscope should help rule it in or out,
cheap bore scope is sub 40 bucks that plug in to a tablet or smartphone..
This doesn't even "require" a mechanic to see if there are issues..
Don't panic "too" quick..
At that price you aren't far from roller territory. The car has a rebuildable core. Many rollers do not. If you want to spend your hours messing with something and have a decent little driver/toy at the end, it might be something to consider.
However - what about the rest of the car? Cuz - once you sink $27k into a car that at best is worth $20k you are going to be driving it for a long, long time. Right color? Int? Options? Have you driven a 996 at all? Everything non-engine related better be leg-tingle good, or you're upside-down by $5-10k in 18 months with a car you just spent a decent chunk on and now want to dump and go elsewhere.
Frankly, I wouldn't be looking at the 996 family at all. It is a bargain basement market, and that's what drew me in, but I'm not retired, and I flip cars for money most of the time.
A friend of mine has a 99 cab 80k miles and has a ticking noise from between the 4,5 cylinders (used mechanic stethoscope). We dropped his sump, and there was the normal aluminum shavings, nothing ferrous. We boroscoped cylinders 4,5,6 top and bottom, there was no bore scoring. The filter did have what looked like timing guide or cam pad material. The car drives absolutely perfect, no CEL, and no smoke at startup. The car does have the occasional chain slap at startup, but not all the time. According to the forums if it has this ticking it's 100% bore scoring, but that's not the case here. Another member had a similar issue on rennlist and it turned out to be one of his swirl pots. Not the case here. Also, it's usually never a failed lifter. Maybe Jake Raby can give his thoughts?
The dent on the door wasn't fixed because the owner recognizes this car's expiration date has arrived due to the engine. Says everything about the health of the car.
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