FVD or "x51" oil baffles

Hi The time has come to invest in either x51 oil baffles as sold by e.g. Pelican or something else. The alternatives are like the FVD lowered pan, extended pickup and baffles or LNE version with lowered pan, baffles, extended pickup and a lid over the added capacity. Of course the latter two are nearly twice the cost, are they really worth it? Mike

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Who can say? Baffles are simple yet complex and they are often taken for granted if they are even thought about at all. Whenever g-forces would cause oil to flow away from the oil pickup the baffles close/seal and prevent the oil from moving away. At the same time on the other side the g-forces are trying to move oil towards the oil pick up. So the baffles on that side want to open and let this oil in. Yet another point is the oil that is allowed in is from the the lowest level of the sump. This oil because it is lower/lowest is the least aerated of the oil in the sump. As the car goes speeds up, slows down, turns left or right, on the road or on the track this process is continuous and its proper function critical to the performance of the oiling system. How to know which one is best? Well, without setting up some test to observe under varying g-forces which baffles perform better (and how to test longevity?) I have no idea. My thought would be deeper is better, all other things being equal. But the oil pick up must be extended and since it is longer and subject to more g-forces wants to be secure. Have a long oil pick up tube come loose and the deepest sump is just going to provide more space to hold the engine shrapnel... There is the concern of ground clearance at some point and the vulnerably of the lower sump to damage by road debris.

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For this reason alone, X51 is the way to go in my opinion. Also there are a LOT of racers using X51, and no real evidence of oil starvation.

Accusump for a bit more...

I replaced my stock pan with X51 and the baffles were virtually identical. I question whether it's worth upgrading just the pan. Someone, ProDriver?, recently posted an image of enlarged X51 baffle openings. You may be better off just modifying your stock setup. Otherwise, Accusump seems like a sure fire solution.

I would love to see a good DIY on the accusump. and also how it is operated. my main concern with accusump is that most people mount it inside the cockpit and that is hot oil under pressure.. a bit dangerous if you ask me. If we could see a good setup with the accusump in a 'safe' area AND proven that it is seemless to use then ok I am all in. last time I checked they mentionned that activation is a bit 'special'. like keep it open then start the engine, or shut it off before the engine.. I mean stuff I don't want to have to worry about. but I think there is an automated switch available. any good links about the accusump ? FYI, I am installing the X51 baffle next week. FYI2, I tried to buy one from pelican, after 2 weeks they told me they could not get it for me. but I think suncoast might have some in stock

I replaced my pan with a X51 pan. Though I have to believe it does nothing to prevent oil starvation for extended periods of time and I'll have to agree with lnengineering that it is useless without the rest of the X51 package, which added an extra scavenge pump in the head and external oil return line right back to the sump. Taken from an earlier post

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As long as it's installed correctly, I don't really see any big issues. If you think about it, there is hot coolant running near your foot all the time yet we don't hear of too many stories of people getting burnt by hot coolant. In my older cars where I had mechanical oil pressure gauges, I had plastic tubing running to my a-pillar. I'm surprised I didn't really worry about it coming off and squirting hot oil in my eye back then. You can always mount it in the back behind the seats for additional safety margin. Here's a nice tidbit from Charles the man himself:

Accusump used to offer an electric valve that would open/close upon ignition key activation? Paul

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There's several ways to activate it including manual, electronic switch, and as you mentioned wiring it up to the ignition.

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This is definitely the way to go if you wanna remain with factory parts but at close to $3k just for the factory pump($200 crossover tube), I don't see it being feasible for most 996 owners over an accusump. For the hardcore racer, I would rather go with LNE Dual Scavenging pumps that pump from each head for the price of the factory single pump that only draws oil from one head. Just an added level of protection.

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I agree

As I understand the oil diagram in another recent thread, the 3.6 alreadyhas one scavenge pump in either head. The stock plastic baffle has a few drawbacks which it looks lke the x51 or FVD or the other remedy. The main remedies are that they close tight against the walls of the space, effectively nearly creating three separate zones. This means ndr hard cornering, virtually all the oil from the middle and the section above will drain towards the pickup. In the stock, most of what is in the top section will drain past the pickup on the outside of the closed "bathtup" to the lower section. Macster, I am well aware of the difficulty of knowing given the limited test abilities the aftermarket has, compared to engineers at the factory. I was looking for thoughhts on the designs and any anecdotal evidence. Ground clearance is definitely a concern as I have to pass over several speedbumps and given the weight at the rear, the car tends to squat at the rear, just as it and the engine passes the speedbump. I takeit very gingerly but one day one might forget...or my wife...and a deeper sump could well mean contact and subsequent game over. The engine already carries over 8l of oil, half a litre will not mean a massive difference. I will go for the x51. I share philoo's concerns and questions onhow the accusump works and should be monted. I have not seen or heard of many installationsin a 996...so just the x51 baffles will be the first test.

Sorry for all the spelling errors...(on iPad)

does anybody knows how much / how long it takes to install the two oil scavenge pump from LN ENGineering ? It looks like the perfect solution but cost prohibitive... I have never heard anybody doing this mod. Looks like it will cost less to simply sell my car and buy a gt3 But I just wonder if anybody has ever done that mod.

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as for sump alone, the detail is in the pudding. The x51 and the stock pan are not the same. Ive looked at the two side by side and the slight details of the two have "baffled" me for quite some time... bottom line is that the x51 will hold more oil at the pick-up. What the aftermarket vendor need to do is to redesign the single pickup to add multiple pickup and redesign the baffles... (essentially the 991 sump). Now that would be cool.

Hi guys, There is no doubt that an X51 baffle or our baffle(sold by LN, Pelican, Tarett, EBS Racing) is the best value in an oil system improvement. We have guys running these on tracks around the world with excellent results. Our version has a much better door design than Porsche's but the basic concept is the same. An accusmp can help but it's price and added complexity is not for everyone. For street use, the kits with increased capacity may cause ground clearance issues especially for those with better suspensions. Contact me with any questions or concerns. By the way, we alway have our baffle kits in stock. Don Weaver-EBS Racing

Once I have mine, it fit it from below and photo up, and show why it is better. Don: why are there two small holes at the bottom in the corners where oil can escape out of the main pickup area? In the photo at the top of the page is a version that doesnt have those holes, yet in yours there is. Many thanks for responding.

Im thinking those holes in the corner are oil feed for the pickup... btw the pickup is extremely close to bottoming out on the pan.

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Pickup should be close But the holes dont make sense, that's exactly the opposite of what you want and in all photos of the original x51 by Porsche, they dont exist. Once I have mine, there has got to be a reason like an attachment post in the pan or something like that, or I will weld them up.

Actually, when the baffle is fitted to the pan those gaps almost, functionally, disappear. The aluminum pan is designed around the original plastic baffle and the casting follows its profile. When either ours or the original X51 is fitted it goes around that feature in the casting so that very little oil can quickly move around or through the cut outs. Allowing a small amount of oil movement at the very bottom of the pan does not pose any issues as there is a much larger volume of oil to control above. BTW, one of the big improvements in our baffle is a change in the size, shape and position of the door windows. This is a feature that FVD did not address in their version.

FWIW I am now halfway through installation, takes awhile to scrape off all the old "rubber" from the sealant. Installation is easy however foresee risk of cracking the pan as it takes quite some force to squeeze the "tabs" to fit...we'll see. Here is a progress pic:

hey what kind of plastic are you using , I mean those orange parts ? I just picked up a baffle but the plastics are very thin, I would like to try a tighter fit but no idea which plastic are ok to stay immersed in engine oil like that ?

It came with them, they are glued in place.

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+1 Navarro's quote earlier in this thread is a joke. There are many, many 996 race cars running R-compound and full racing slicks with the X51 plan and no issues. My engine is entering it's 5th season of competition on full racing slicks and it has seen more than its far share of high-g corners, banking, elevation changes, etc. and I never see a drop in oil pressure. Running the stock IMS bearing as well. Ground clearance is important. The only issue I did have was cracking my X51 pan during an off track excursion. Some of the other alternatives could make this an even bigger problem. No reason to over think this. X51 pan is plenty adequate on track and probably overkill on a street car. It's a shame the marketing hype is leading so many people to question the reliability of these engines.

just as an FYI I did not have the X51 in the video below and you can see clearly the oil pressure drop I will install the x51 baffle soon and report video on the same track to see. You Tube

By the way, because of slight variations in pan castings, I find that to properly fit our baffle you sometimes have to remove the lower "tabs" seals. The flat section of the baffle that the screws go through should be seated fully against the pan when done.

That helps a lot!! I can't fit it like it is now, so was about to remove it...thanks for confirming.

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It is my understanding that low oil pressure is only happening on a couple select tracks. If you're not driving on these tracks then you would probably never encounter it.

FWIW I use the EBS baffle in a X51 pan. I like the metal flaps better than the rubber ones in the OEM X51 version. I've data logged my car at 155-160 tru T2 at Cal Speedway, a LH, 18 degree banked turn. I've never seen anything lower than 4 bar....

ok I see x51 baffle and ebs,but what is the difference between the x51 PAN and the regular PAN. the pan, not the baffle, look similar to me, no ?

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Porsche only makes 1 pan only the baffle is different.

Bypro is basically correct. Porsche has changed the castings slightly over the coarse of production which seems to translate into some very small changes in fit with our baffle. However, of you purchase a brand new factory pan or a factory X51 baffle with pan, the pan itself is the exact same part.

So...been busy at work, but got a few hours spare today. Started by removing the rubber on one of the tabs, the one that didnt fit well. Sealant, darn it is so hard, hence why the bead is so squiggly. Worked the last time...so it probably will this time too. Then place it up, first few turns of the screws by hand to avoid cross threading, then go round one turn at a time ntil "tight", then final round with 10Nm. The sealant should just barely be visible in the seam between case and pan, with a tiny teeny excess showing, tried to capture it with the iPhone, look carwfully and its just visible. Then I will let it stand for a few days to cure before adding oil. Its fun to document! :-) hope this helps those who havent done it before. Will post results in a few months when I have tracked it.

What did you use to get the old sealant off so well? The machined ridges on the sealant surface make it a real PITA to get the old sealant off to the metal. Yours looks great! Of course, it's up to you, but did you notice that the old sealant went completely around the bolt holes? I noticed you only went on the pan side and though that is fine to keep the oil in, it does allow a path for water to get to the bolts and threads. Just a heads up for anyone else referencing this thread. May or may not be a big deal depending on the weather you llve & drive in, etc.

I remember when I dropped my pan, I had an horrible time removing the previous sealant, but then I read here that the old one goes away much faster using so Acetone (double check as I am not 100% sure about the name of the product) anyways with this product, it went away real easy... it was a life saver when I realized I had put the oil pan and forgot to put the baffles in LOL !! I was so stressed out about applying the sealant properly, I forgot the baffle on my desk... so I had to clean up the whole thing twice... at least I saw my sealant looked pretty good

Getting the old sealant is major PITA until I found a brass brush sized like a toothbrush after using...clean thoroughly!

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...gl4055SGW1W0bl This has saved me many times from having to exert a lot of elbow grease on gaskets before.

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Scotchbrite pad and brake cleaner, acetone or mineral spirits also works very well.

yeah the whole trick is to keep the special texture of the aluminum I assume those 3m discs don't over polish the surface ?

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If you use it correctly, then no. If you look at one really close, it is like a round brillo pad with many fibers in it. The only way I can see it overpolishing is if you use a worn out pad that has severely blocked fibers reducing the courseness of it.

Paint remover works well too. Paul

What's the proper torque for the three bolts that hold the baffle to the pan? Did you use loctite as well? Getting ready to do this myself soon. Thanks.

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7.5 ft/lbs & I use loctite too.

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Loctite Blue just to clarify.

Would the EB or X51 pan be enough for a stock car on street tires? Took my 2000 to my first DE with the car at Sears Point. The car is completely stock other than PSS10s and wheels. I noticed a drop of oil pressure when cornering right, but never saw it drop below 2 bar. I was surprised as I'm using cheap Sumitomo HTRZII's and thought oiling issues were more of a concern when using R-Comps!

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Phil, The Racing Forum linked below may help you: http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-r...tarvation.html If you search in that specific Section for "Deep Sump X51" you will find lots of opinions related to Track/DE.

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My car dropped oil pressure on a left hand sweeper on all season street tires....like you said, down to about 2 bar....after the third or fourth lap. I have a FVD pan that I never installed sitting in my garage.....but I don't think I'm ever going to track my car again, just not worth the potential downside to me. I even have a set of track pads that I've only used for a very short period of time.

Mr. Waterloo, I understand your concern. I remain childlishly optimistic for the time being. If you have any interest in selling the FVD pan, please send me a PM! Thanks

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Would you consider trade for the deep sump with my IPD Comp plenum and GT3 TB?