Fabspeed sadness

It's really difficult sometimes when you do your research -- as best as you can when you live out a long way from other Porsche owners -- and you "ask around" as best as you can when you live a long way from other Porsche owners -- and then you make your decision to improve your pride and joy -- your Porsche 2002 Targa -- and you organise for your new mufflers to be airfreighted from the United States by the local distributor and a week later they arrive and you drive for 2 1/2 hours to get them fitted and you pay $2300 AUS and then you turn around and drive back 2 1/2 hours on the freeway that requires you to sit on either 100 km an hour or 110 km an hour and with the car on cruise control and -- this is the very very sad part -- at either of those speeds yournew Fabspeed mufflers drone to the point where they make you feel ill You take your wife for drive because she is excited (for you) because it's all you've talked about all week and she sits there and goes quiet and says -- have they done something wrong? and, they have to have done something wrong because it just drones like bad music -- and so on. Then the dear wife really made me really sad by saying that "it doesn't sound sharp and crispy like your old Porsche" OK -- I know -- I know -- I know -- I should have gone for drive in a car with a set of Fabspeed sports mufflers installed and then I would have found out that notwithstanding the fact that they are pleasing to lots of other people -- and I respect that -- to me they drone on and are unbearable -- so -- anybody in Australia want to buy a cheap set of Fabspeeds? The indy who fitted them -- Fitzgerald Racing here in eastern Australia -- in Melbourne -- was a very nice fellow -- his mechanics were just what you want to see -- they were sensible clear thinking fellows working in a speck and span well-equipped workshop -- would highly recommend them to anybody needing work done on their Porsche.

I'm sorry you had to find out the expensive way, but there is no surer sign that a muffler drones than the number of new owners beset with cognitive dissonance, posting, "It doesn't drone... much. Certainly better than the OLD version. Compared to all the others , it hardly drones at all." It's a straight through muffler. Therefore, it's guaranteed, at some rpm, you'll get annoying resonance.

I have their mufflers for years before putting their headers on this spring. I do not hear the drone and am sorry that you are not satisified with the product. Try the PSE hack as people here have had success with it.

Wow, sorry to hear that. As a last resort I would think you will not have too much trouble selling them. Before I bought my Fabspeeds I also read all the reports, and talked to some owners, and have been very happy with them. I did see some reports of drone, and some reports without drone. I am trying to think of possible differences. For one, I have a wide-body (the car, not me). There is extra space for the mufflers to reside in. Also, do you by chance have a tiptronic? I have a 6-speed and typically drive at 3000-3500RPM (unless accelerating, of course). With my car, I can make them drone if I am applying load under 3K RPM, but then I downshift. In my case, I actually like the feedback. I think chsu74 has a great idea. However, it is not easily reversable. Perhaps you can test a car with the PSE to see if you like it?

THAT JUST SUCKS !!! I did the By-Pass pipes and had the same type of experience. (though no where near as expensive) Really excited, did all the sound bytes, and in the end it just didnt work at all..... I would also recommend the MKII hack mod, (or real PSE new/used) I have that and its amazing (for me) - quiet as hell on the freeway cruising - little rasp on accell/decell and tiny bark when you get on it. ZERO DRONE

I have a drone between 2000-3000 rpm with my custom exhaust and my solution is quite simple and effective, I just change gear or speed to get the engine above or below 2000-3000 rpm.

Thanks for the advice guys -- it really sucks but that's just the way it is. The important thing to is what the above poster says about how his it P car sounds good at 3 1/2 thousand revs and so on -- I can agree with that -- it does soung ok up higher in the rev range -- but -- the problem is that in sixth gear on the freeway at the legal cruising speed here in Victoria it is sitting at 2500 rpm or thereabouts and that's exactly when it drones at its worst -- it's like the planets have lined up against me -- wow -- I really must be said. Anyway I will have to try and find somebody around here -- in eastern Australia -- who has done the PSE mod so that I can listen to that and then if it's ok to my ear I will do that -- but -- no more mods without listening to someone else's system first -- once bitten twice shy. Anyone in south-eastern Australia have the PSE mod?

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awe but how would you end up with a GT2 wing in the garage with this type of additude!

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. . . or two extra sets of wheels in the barn . . .

How about getting 997 X51 headers and thus deepening your sound. This may change the frequency on the drone thereby getting rid of it.

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DOH !!! (shhh sold one set) Have room for more things I cant use - also sold the GT2 muffler - still have the hood ? anyone need a factory MKI rear deack lid (or two)

Is it possible that you need to put a 1000miles or so on the mufflers first to see if the drone dissappears or is less? I feel your frustration.....to go through all that for the anxiety of something that should have made you happy.... All I can say is that I went with the AH Gen2 mufflers and I could not be happier as there is little to no drone period....the AH Gen1 mufflers I replaced (due to a bad weld on a bracket)had the same very loud, ear splitting obnoxious drone at 2-3k rpm's - they were so loud that it was impossible to have any conversation and forget a cellular call...stereo was deemed useless at those RPM's. Gen 2 fixed my pain....

My fabspeeds drone like hell... A quick email to their customer support got a response along the lines of "you drive a Porsche not a Jag... deal with it... we dont care!". When i replied to a thread about the droning on the other board, the head of marketing PMed me and asked if he can help, I explained the issue and he promptly ignored me. Yes they drone. Yes its a shame they dont stand behind their product. Yes its a shame they treat their customer like they are clueless idiots. Yes, I wont buy from them anymore.

I don't like aftermarket exhausts and don't see the appeal. I bought my current car with a set of fabspeeds, sold them for a new factory exhaust, non PSE. I do a lot of track events, and I'm pretty young compared to many on this board, but, I suppose to each his own, I like a quiet car. Sucks about your experience, Fabspeed doesn't seem to have the best reputation, but they ARE lighter than stock, that's for sure...

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I have both the 997 X51 headers and fabspeed mufflers. The headers do make the engine sound deeper and it seems to me that the car is quieter then when I only had the fabspeed installed. I don't notice a drone. Unless your is a really tall gear and you slightly press the accelerator. I rarely am ever in 6th gear and even the drone that I am talking about it not that much and it requires complete silence in the car to even hear it. Doesn't interfere with the sound system and thinking back to other vehicles I've had. All which have had a drone while in the same situation. Without the stock exhaust there was no way to hear the exhaust note. Unless you had the windows down and didn't drive fast enough for the wind to create enough noise to over power it.

Michael, Total bummer... is your car the Targa in your avatar? Food for thought; I put a Borla on a modified 1972 coupe that I had. The drone was painful between 2500 and 3500. I took it off and sold it to one of my friends, yes he had ridden in my car with the Borla on and still wanted it. He put it on his 72 targa and it still droned but it was not objectionable in the targa. The targa did not have the painful resonating boom inside the passenger compartment that the coupe had. Your car may sound different then a coupe with the same exhaust modifications.

"FisterD" has done the PSE hack to Fabspeed mufflers as well. PM him for his thoughts on whether or not this might "improve" your problem. Personally, the soundclip on the web that he has sounds pretty sweet to me, but I like them rumbly and aggressive.

I have the Fabspeed muffler on my 04 C4S Cab Tip and I don't mind the sound at all at all speeds. Again I usually never drive in 5th gear and usually keep the RPMs in the 3-4000 range. However, when I put on the Fabspeed Cold air intake kit, did I mind the sound, it was way too loud. I do not think the PSE mod is a very difficult thing to do, it only requires a tube to be placed between the intake tube before the muffler to the out tube of the muffler. I know on RennTech.org there is a whole chat in the 996 section on modifying mufflers and it doesn't seem that hard to do,that any good muffler shop with a good welder could do. I would call the owner of Fabspeed and explain your situtation and your displeasure with their product to see about a return. I found him really nice and informative and he is highly recommended by the PCA Tech experts.

FWIW, I absolutely love the AWE exhaust on my cab. One of my favorite pastimes is dropping the top then dropping the hammer alongside one of the numerous walls of rock that line our windy mountain roads. There is some drone around 2500, but nothing like what you describe. Sorry to hear that you had an unsatisfactory experience!

I drove a friend's 2007 GT3 for about 4 days. It had the magic PSE button & i had never heard such a sweet sound. Speeding up, slowing down, idle..... it was all perfect. And you could turn it off around the neighbors! 2 months later i bought a 2000 C2, no magic button. Sweet car, but no magic button. I researched the hacks and 2 weeks later i dropped the cans and took them & $200 to a good welder along with full page pics of what i wanted. Put them back on and got ready to be dissapointed. And thats exactly what happened next. Looking back, i think i found the wrong method and perfectly replicated it. This is the one where the capped off area on the corner of the can is opened up and a 2.5" pipe connect the new hole to the existing exhaust pipe, drawing the exhaust from 2 locations. If you want to hear the car exhale, DONT DO THIS! It looks like the factory pse connects the intake & exhaust pipes with a much smaller diameter pipe. I would also recommend to keep the length the same as the factory guys who figured this out. Changing the length could change the phasing of the exhaust pulse and actually cancel out more audio. I was bummed out enough to sell it afterward but a 130 mph sprint made me feel better. At least it will still do that. Those 4 days & nights of GT3 borrowship may have been the worst thing to ever happen to my 996....

Michael, sorry to hear of your bad experience. +996 on the Fister Mod to my stock mufflers. Absolutely NO drone at any speed but a beautiful, smooth, full bark on accelleration. Probably the best mod for the money for our cars.

It appears you've done your research before settling on the Fabspeed system, which should say quite a bit as to how many people are satisfied with this exhaust setup. I am currently running their system on my own car, and while exhaust sound, drone, resonance etc etc etc... is ALL relative, my personal opinion is that this system is one of the best around. I've installed/driven all the major exhaust manufacturers out there, i.e. cargraphic, miltek, tubi, techart, etc... And the deeper Fabspeed sound was what sealed the deal for me when it came to my own car. The 'drone' is certainly no worse on these cans than any others I've heard and in my opinion its quite quiet in the cab - To the O.P., I don't want you to get the impression I'm telling you you're wrong, simply sharing my experience with the Fabspeed system for others to take into consideration as well. The more informed postings the better. On another note, is it even slightly possible a gasket got bent or theres an air leak somewhere in the system? - I know its a long shot but I've seen it happen and if any air is escaping before actually reaching the cans it can cause a headache quick. Whatever the situation I hope you find a happy result and thanks for sharing.

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(1) I am not sure what Hack you did but it is possable you hacked the wrong cans? Were the cans 3.4 or 3.6? I did the hack you stated above on 3.6 cans and it is wonderful. (2) what? (3) Not to me - looks like the real PSE connects the 2nd chamber to the outlet with a large pipe, not as you suggest (small pipe between inlet and outlet) (4) yea I bet !!

Thanks for the comments -- ALL helpful because they confirm what I suspected -- first -- being that exhaust systems are a "subjective thing" and there are plenty that say the Fabspeeds are ok, but for me they are a PITA at the speed I mostly have to travel, and -- second -- that I should have actually listened to a set first. In hindsight I ask myself -- would I redecorate a whole house from a 3 inch color chip at the paint store? No way -- so why did I do the automotive equivalent? Who knows -- perhaps I was just excited at the first mod on the 996. My previous car -- a 964 -- was modified on day one and 6 years later I was still at it -- once it was off the road for almost a year "just to do a few improvements" . Fitzgerald Racing promptly answered my "complaint" email and he was helpful and he will speak to Fabspeed forme but that may not get me anywhere -- anyway we will see. The best thing for me to do is to wait a while and see what happens -- give them a go and keep an open mind -- also I will get to Melbourne sometime soon and will take Peter Fitzgerald for a ride -- although I have not known him long he comes across as a straight shooter so I will listen to his opinion when it is "droning" (wow -- sounds like I'm inflexible -- we will have to see). And -- if it is still a problem for me (and the wife) I have two mufflers to try the PSE mod on and will have two "as new" Fabspeeds to sell -- could be worse --as they say -- "hope springs eternal in the heart of a used 996 owner" To fpb111 -- yes it's my targa -- sitting in the lot the day I took delivery. To medtech -- I will do a search or PM "fisterD"

I have Fabspeeds on my 996 and the only time I ever notice any drone is under light acceleration at lower rpms (<3000). Once I level my speed, they just quiet up. You may want to check your gaskets to make sure you don't have any leaks. I have copper Fabspeed gaskets on my car and that really seals it up.

Sorry you had such a bad experiance.... I too put on mufflers and did research and talked to several people that had lots of experiance with muffler installs. At the end I decided against Fab Speed because of the feed back I got. What I did get was Tubi Style mufflers and I got to tell you I LOVE THEM ! I have a cab so I hear them when I want and they're quiet when I want. Probably cost 1/2 again as much as the Fabs Speed but you know the saying. Sell your Fab Speed on e-bay and get some TUBA

Michael I experienced the same problem on my 997S over 3 years ago when I installed the Fabspeeds. I installed a 1-1/2 inch pipe between the intake and exhaust just before the muffler and it transformed the Fabspeeds. Now I get that deep rumble at idle, absolutely no resonance at any RPM, and at WOT the car sounds magnificant. It's a simple/inexpensive solution and you'll love your Fabspeeds....

hey - dont mufflers sort of "break in" after a month or so ? maybe the problem will go away / change after they have some miles on them ? (just food for thought)

All of our exhaust system breaks in after a while. I noticed that my headers and muffler combo with ECU flash sound much louder than before. I have about 1,000 miles on the current setup. Its very agressive now where I don't think 200 cell Cats would be a good thing...

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not a good thing as in... the volume would be too loud for street ? - so Yes they do change after 1000 miles... might want to run the fabspeeds and see if they come around ??

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+1 for this.

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Wow, mine is almost like stock cruising on a flat freeway at 2500rpm. Okay, well your car is still beautiful and you could sell them at a good price almost new and you haven't lost much, right? If you want to experience really loud and a drone at low rpm's, put on some straight bypass pipes for a week and let your wife ride once. Then I guarantee the Fabspeed Auspuff will sound very mellow again. It seems to me like it splits the difference in sound actually. Alternatively, you could try the cotton ball mod.

Hi Guys, I'm new to here, just bought my first P car (2001 996 Cab). What is PSE? Thanks!

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Porsche Sports Exhaust

i just bought a 996, driven it 9,000 miles in some months, i love it. it came to me with fabspeed exhaust. it does not drone, i cruise in the 2000's to 3000's and it's wonderful. there is much that could be wrong,causing this horror. have the car checked out.

I put on my fabspeed in November last year. It droned initially but only slightly. After I put some mileage on the exhaust, it went a way. I sometimes wish it where a bit louder as it's really quite normal and quiet at the lower RPMS unless under quite a bit of load.

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I agree. Get headers and a flash with an evo intake. It will sound perfect. When I get on the go pedal, it sounds very agressive.

Update -- have now done 10,000 klms on the Fabspeeds -- they still drone at the legal cruise speed here in Oz so it's time to giveup -- I tried. Have almost finished doing the PSE mod to my original mufflers -- have made all the bits and done the cutouts and am planning on getting the welding done tomorrow -- then will do the fit up and will try and see what it sounds like and will see if it drones. Also -- my CD player has got the terminal death habit of not reading CD's and of jumping and replaying tracks -- so it's a new Becker unit -- the closest they have is a "Grand Prix" -- it is supposed to slot staight in -- same wiring. But $995.00 -- ouch!

the PSE is a hack? it will seem very quiet now to you..... but have someone drive the car past you and the growl is much louder outside ...... not in the cab GL and post your feelings on the new set up........

I have a Fabspeed exhaust and it quiets down on the highway from 2700-3200. Which in the states is ~75-80mph. I wonder if the fact that you have a Targa might be a contributing factor. You have all that reflective glass and it could amplify the sounds ( or low frequency drone), versus the coupe with a headliner.

Have just returned from a long test drive with the PSE hack -- 2 inch pipe used -- no drone/resonance at all and it barks nicely when you get on it -- very much what I wanted. So now I will try the fabspeed mod mentioned above to see if that does away with the drone -- it will be after Xmas before I get a chance to do that so I will get back to you all then with a report. Thanks for the suggestions and support. (ps -- saw a little weep -- just a stain and not actually wet from the RMS -- at 100,000 klms -- rats!!!)

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those are tears of joy, not sadness now if the car had 3400 miles and was weeping.... that would be tears of sadness

So.... (deep breath) After doing some research and some solid advice from my local specialist Porsche dealer/mechanic, I ordered a full Fabspeed Performance pack (x-pipe, maxflo muffler, ECU, cup airbox) for my recently acquired '95 993C4 - TWO DAYS AGO!! So they are currently on their way to Australia and will be installed early Jan. Then... about 5 mins ago I stumble across this thread and my anxiety levels have JUST HIT THE ROOF!!! I have jumped off the cliff so am taking a swan dive into the (relative) unknown. As such, I guess I will run with it and see how it goes. Will report back on this site after a few weeks. Anyone had experience with the above system with a 993?

Well, I hope it works out for you. All vehicles are different, mine is a 2002 Targa, yours is a 993, very different vehicles, my experience is not a "useable" guide as to what you will hear. Await your report.

Fingers crossed Michael - that the mod works on the fabspeeds too.

I have 1500 miles on the FabSpeed MaxFlows and they have quieted down significantly since I first put them on. I'm really happy with them, the sounds they make are consistent with how you'd want a P-car to sound.

Thought I'd weigh in with my Fabspeed sadness, at this time of good cheer to all ... I got a complete Maxflo dual-tip header/heat/cat/muffler setup for my rebuilt 964 with 3.8 heads - a DE and street car - and have a few hundred miles on it. In the low RPM range, at cruising speeds on the highway in 5th, around 2400-2900 I get a significant droning resonance - low and loud - in the cabin. So much so that I drive around mostly in 4th or a bit faster just to avoid it. Also, just to kick the Fabs when they're down I had to drive the car on a clear winter day in Chicago and discovered that the heat boxes don't seem to wrap enough header-pipe to generate heat when the air temps are in the 20's. Compared to the OEM sauna, on high, the Fabspeed system is barely tepid at full-hot output. Caveat emptor. I've got a call in to Alex at Fabspeed in case I've missed something. For now, I'd review the Fabspeeds as low-restriction, nice sound, great at high revs and for DE events but not a good choice for me for the street.

That "drone" you hear is the engine lugging. It's under load, and with the aftermarket exhaust you can hear it. You have to understand that this engine doesn't much like life below 3,000rpm at the best of times. Add the exponential stress of pushing a wall of air at 100 kph, and you're asking a lot of it. Just take a look at a dyno chart for this engine and see how little power it makes that rpm, and you'll see what I mean (fine for poodling around town at low speed with the help of torque multiplying lower gears, but remember that the work required to move a car through the air cubes as speed rises). An exhaust system is a matter of personal taste, but I wouldn't recommend making a habit of driving at higher speeds at such low rpms regardless.

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If that were true the tiptronic would be geared to stay out of that rpm range.. but it isn't. The tip will put you in high gear and low rpm every chance it gets, right where the drone is prevalent. So no offence but this idea of the engine lugging & droning because it is in a driver induced sub-optimal condition is simply not true. Some guys get lucky and their exhaust doesn't drone and it sounds good - good for them, and unfortunately a bunch of guys also get the opposite experience of a god awful drone - It sure as hell isn't the drivers fault, the problem is the exhaust if it can't reliably work across the normal range of operating conditions. End of Rant.

I think it is important to give them time to heat cycle and build up a layer of carbon before judging them. they change alot after 1000 miles or so.

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They do that in order to meet mandated fuel economy and emission targets. As with many of these things, one need causes another to be sacrificed.... in this case, durability. Your transmission is not trying to help you preserve your engine or even get the most out of it, for that matter. Sorry, but the stress of operating this motor at low rpms/higher speeds is real. If you want to cruise around at 2500 rpm, a Porsche was probably a bad choice; BMWs, by contrast, where many of their inline 6s make more than 3/4s of their maximum torque at 2000 rpm are very well suited to this style of driving.

I have Fabspeeds on my 996 C4S. There really seems to be a diverse opinion on the sound of these. Mine are so mellow (after a few thousand miles) that I really wish I could hear them more. When new I did have a minor drone at 2500 RPM (approx) but I usually drive over 3000 anyway. Now that drone seems to be gone too. One factor that comes to mind is that my C4S is wider--there is a lot of space around the mufflers. That should affect resonance, I would think . . .

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The OP did 10,000km on his Maxflows and they still drone so 'bedding in' doesn't always work unfortunately. So anyone that experienced some drone should sell their car because they are not driving it right ? I was wondering if it is the mounting hardware that beds in after a while of driving - although using the same (new) hardware with the stock mufflers there is no drone whilst there is drone with the fabspeeds.

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Don't think that's what I said. It's like this: Every engine, from a lawn mower to a locomotive, sounds different when it's under load (defined as something close to the maximum work of which it's capable at a given rpm). At low rpms and higher speeds, this engine is very much under load, because it's what we used to refer to as a 'horsepower' engine, not a 'torque' engine. When you remove some noise suppression from the exhaust, you hear the effect where you wouldn't ordinarily. What you're hearing is not the muffler, it's the engine. And the engine is telling you it's straining. The reason people always report droning on the highway is that the work an engine is being asked to do cubes with speed. In other words, doing 2500 rpm around a parking lot is no biggie, but that selfsame 2500 rpm at highway speeds exponentially stresses the motor... because this engine is making only 100 hp or less at 2500 rpm. Anyone can drive anything they want, any way they want. All I'm saying is - and this is not a matter of opinion or speculation - you're being hard on your engine if you're doing 100 kph at less than 3,000 rpm, and that might or might not have consequences which will be yours to bear. Given it's Christmas, I won't reciprocate your snarky emoticon.

To Michael Gibney, what have you done in the end... kept the Fabpseed mufflers? have you tried the mod on them? I am wondering if I am going to try to mod my Fabspeed or the OEM... thanks! Pierre.

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they will essentially sound like this.... http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-have-one.html [vid]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25yi3Z05Lks[/vid]

all right.. now we're talking... only I just spent over a $1000 on the maxflow... I guess I am selling them then! anybody up for a brand new pair of Maxflow, they have 50 miles on them

Had the same problem with my 95 993. They were used and five people tried them and none of us bought them,they were miserable.