41 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHAnyone ever make a Titanium exhaust for the 996?
Leading reported evidence
Use by some manufacturers
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Inconel is also used for the manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been used by some manufacturers on hypercar projects such as Mcalren P1, Aston Martin 177, where lightness is a factor, and exhaust temperatures regularly exceed 1000c.
Leading evidence: 'Use by some manufacturers' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check temps tomorrow' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Use manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Inconel is also used for the manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been used by some manufacturers on hypercar projects such as Mcalren P1, Aston Martin 177, where lightness is a factor, and exhaust temperatures regularly exceed 1000c.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I'll check the temps tomorrow when I take my first drive of the year to check out the repairs I did this winter.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
You might wanna check with Vivid Racing to see if they have any leftover.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
However, I see absolutely 0 use cases in street vehicles.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Inconel is also used for the manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been used by some manufacturers on hypercar projects such as Mcalren P1, Aston Martin 177, where lightness is a factor, and exhaust temperatures regularly exceed 1000c.
Use manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Inconel is also used for the manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been used by some manufacturers on hypercar projects such as Mcalren P1, Aston Martin 177, where lightness is a factor, and exhaust temperatures regularly exceed 1000c.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
41 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T161109Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I have a friend who had a Dixis Titanium exhaust on his e46 M3. The company Dixis (Redhot Japan) went bankrupt. I remember how his M3 sounded so different from any other M3 with an aftermarket exhaust. Plus the system was so light.
Is there a company who made/makes a Titanium exhaust for the 996 Carrera? All I found were these for the 997 carrera.
http://millionaireracing.com/shop/ex...ack-non-turbo/
JIC Magic of Japan made 996 specific exhausts. They are no longer in production but you may be able to find NOS. You might wanna check with Vivid Racing to see if they have any leftover. I have their header and it is very nicely made.
We offer Kline Innovation exhausts and they offer 3 material types:
996 Carrera w 200 Cell Cats
Stainless $2200
Inconel $4300
Titanium $3973
If interested in ordering or need more info please feel free to PM or email
[email removed]
Online ordering now available:
http://www.supremepower.com/kline996...t-systems.html
Some pics:
kline3_zps4kaec1fc.jpg
kline2_zps8tvproxn.jpg
kline4_zpswuxolx6n.jpg
kline1_zps9cwoxekg.jpg
I get a 404 when I hit that new link in comment 10.
Try pasting the URL without the protocol or the www in front - i.e. supremepower.com/blah blah blah. Sometimes the link treatment goes haywire.
We have not installed this yet so I cant comment on the drone. I did however find a couple videos on Youtube...
Sampling of the sound
and another before and after:
when will people that sell exhausts learn that every car ever made sounds like **** free revving in neutral.
If you want to sell exhausts, post video clips of the car driving/under load.
You would think that would be plainly obvious by now.
What's the advantage of Inconel to justify the price over Titanium? While I believe Inconel may be slightly stronger, it is significantly heavier. Also, Titanium is extremely corrosion resistant.
Basically to brag that you have same material used in F1 engines. It has high heat/corrosion resistance and can be made thin. However, I see absolutely 0 use cases in street vehicles. Also most Inconel applications used in automotive exhaust systems are at the exhaust manifolds where high heat maybe a concern. The heat cools down somewhat by the time it gets to the mufflers.
All I could find on youtube. Just sharing. I agree that the real sound comes when the car is under load.
From the Kline site:
INCONEL
Inconel 625, as used in the aerospace industry where extremely durable and heat withstanding components are required, for example for the exhaust turbine blades in high performance jet engines. Inconel is also used for the manufacture of formula one exhausts, and has also been used by some manufacturers on hypercar projects such as Mcalren P1, Aston Martin 177, where lightness is a factor, and exhaust temperatures regularly exceed 1000c. The basic properties of Inconel are characterised by extremely high tensile strength, and extreme thermo chemical stability. because of the high tensile strength of inconel (roughly the same strength to weight ratio as titanium), very thin sidewall material can be used, while still maintaining structural integrity, resulting in very light weight components that will not fatigue over time. The main drawbacks to using Inconel,is that its extremely difficult to machine and weld, and requires high skill and time consuming processes. its also extremely expensive as a raw material
TITANIUM
Titanium in its varying grades is commonly used in a variety of applications where strength to weight ratio is paramount. Very high tensile strength and low density mean that very light and strong components can be manufactured easily. titanium is also relatively easy to machine and weld using standard engineering apporoaches. the main disadvantages to titanium, is the cost of material, and prolonged heat exposure exceeding 600c causes oxidation of the material, resulting in brittle components and potential breakages. for this reason titanium is best suited to cooler applications where strength and lightness is a factor.
STAINLESS 304
Stainless steel 304 grade has become the industry standard for exhaust manufacture. moderate strength, thermo chemical stablity, inexpensive, and easy to manufacture, 304 stainless can be used to build relatively inexpensive exhausts to a high standard of functionality and durability. The main drawback to stainless steel is the weight. Roughly the same density of steel, but reduced tensile strength, building high performance exhaust components from stainless can be limited. Also from the perspective of sound, the thick sidewall required from stainless, can produce a slightly dull lackluster sounding exhaust note when compared to the previously mentioned materials!
Thick means as thick as stock? And "dull lackluster" means a bit quieter? If one goes for a 200 cell cat, and especially if one also goes for an aftermarket muffler, upping the volume even more with thinner metal might be the last thing one wants ... .
But it does weigh less and look pretty cool ...
Any danger a 996 exhaust would reach this temperature? I suppose turbos would be the extreme case, but ignoring that, what about a tuned engine? (I suppose that if someone invests so much in an exhaust, they'd probably wonder if a remap to make the most of it would be safe.)
And if the manifolds might reach 600, what about the next two parts - the cats and the muffler?
I just had a look at both the SupremePower and Kline sites. Do I understand correctly that Kline only offers the silencers in titanium, not the whole exhaust?
In any case, Inconel does seem to be light.
Here are the weights from the SupremePower site:
Available in standard 304 grade stainless steel
weight
silencers 6kg each
cat section 6.1kg
total 18.1kg
manifolds 4kg each
total full system +manifolds 26.1kg
Inconel 625, formula one grade exhaust material
weight
silencers 3.8kg each
cats 3.5kg
total 11.1kg
manifolds 1.9kg each
total full system + manifolds 14.9kg
Titanium G2 silencer sections are also available, weight is compariable with inconel
Anyone know how much the stock bits weigh?
FYI, I had a Kline exhaust on my 997tt and it was awesome. Felix was great to work with and they can make just about whatever it is you want. I went with a decat and it made a big difference in how the car felt to drive.
I have the cross titanium exhaust on my pcar. I just had them off when I replaced the spark plugs and the ignition coils, and they are incredibly light. I'll check the temps tomorrow when I take my first drive of the year to check out the repairs I did this winter.
Hey guys!
Just saw the thread and wanted to share some interesting stuff and answer some of the questions made here.
The tensile strength of the Inconel alloy we use is 880mpa, whereas common exhaust grade titanium is 344mpa. the density of Inconel is 8.4g/cc, and the density of titanium is 4.5g/cc. so Inconel has a better strength to weight ratio than titanium of 27 percent, meaning in theory you can build an Inconel exhaust that is 27 percent lighter than the titanium counterpart of the same strength.
When exposed to prolonged heat and chemically reactive environment as in an exhaust system, titanium gradually oxidises and the surface material transforms into a material known as "Alpha Case" which is extremely brittle and can easily break under vibration and stress. to guarantee against breakages, titanium exhausts have to be designed with thicker sidewalls, and a passivating surface treatment. Inconel on the other hand increases its tensile strength at high temperatures, and material degredation is not seen even after decades of use.
there are other properties of Inconel that surpass titanium also, such as elongation at break, modulus of elasticity etc.
simply put, its just a better material for exhaust applications.
That's correct, the cats get pretty hot, so we would have to use 1.5mm sidewall titanium, and still couldn't offer the same guarantee as Inconel. we like to manufacture exhausts that have minimal chance of failure. to date we have manufactured hundreds of Inconel systems and have never had a single one break, we think that's a pretty good success rate ;-)
Nearly 40kg in total
Thick means as thick as stock? And "dull lackluster" means a bit quieter? If one goes for a 200 cell cat, and especially if one also goes for an aftermarket muffler, upping the volume even more with thinner metal might be the last thing one wants
the Inconel system is no louder at low revs and cruising, but at high rpms and wide open throttle, the Inconel system has a sharper tonality, (more like a race car) as the resonant property (natural resonant
frequency) of the material is much higher pitched.
Hope this helps!
The only thing I know about metal strength is that there are different kinds of strengths. That's why aluminum is better than steel for bike frames and worse for roll cages, for instance. So I'm wondering what's the difference between tensile strengths and other strengths, and what strengths are needed for exhausts. Maybe tear/puncture resistance, resistance to dents, and either flexibility or stiffness, or some balance.
Anyway, I'm curious, but if the Kline exhausts are as light as titanium and never fail, that's the key thing.
On the other hand, what I'd really like to know more about is heat. Not heat resistance, but heat transmission or radiation. My understanding is that you want as much of the heat in the hot exhaust gas as possible to stay in the gas until it leaves the car, rather than heating up everything near the exhaust, like the engine. There are products that claim to increase power by radiating heat from the exhaust, but in our cars, with the engine stuffed in a drawer and the exhaust almost wrapped half around it, keeping the engine cool is key.
So if titanium exhausts are thicker, isn't that an advantage for titanium? Or is inconel particularly good at retaining heat?
Found a video of the JIC TI exahust on a 996 C2. Wish I could find a used one or a used Kline exhaust.
JIC Cross Titanium Exhaust Porsche 996C2 - YouTube
To give an idea of how light titanium exhausts are, here's a HKS Ti exhaust for a friend's GTR
I put a JIC Ti exhaust on my STi's (kept it for two cars) in the early 2000's. It weighted 8lbs and survived some knarly abuse, too bad JIC went under.
Found the JIC Cross site for the 996 system! Looks really nice.
http://www.jic-magic.co.jp/exhaust/c...6-carrera.html
JIC Cross 996 Exhaust. made in Stainless Steel or Titanium.
Im speaking to Kline now....seeing how many we would need to get a break in pricing. They are swift to respond so I should hear back soon and can post up.
Thanks @MoeMonney
Interesting, I was assuming titanium exhausts were grade 5 or 6al-4v. Grade 5 has an ultimate strength of about 896 MPa.
I wonder at what temperature alpha case starts to form?
Kline has made us an offer. I am out of town returning Monday. Good news is the extra breaks are very reachable and can be a combination of applications. We will be preparing the price offeting to cross post on the various applications. Sorry for the delay guys. Its rare I take a vacay but it happens to be now but ending very soon. Thank you for your patience
If you see this and are interested please shoot an email over to [email removed] and I will be dure to update you via email along with posting on the forums!
Thanks again
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
