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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHRENNKIT? Carrera 4S Cal*Cool? Brake Cooling Kit
Reported or suspected cause
good, has no bearing
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
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Reported cause
Also, just because the vendor is selling other products that are proven to be good, has no bearing on this one.
Leading evidence: 'good, has no bearing' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'good, has no bearing' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check /approved by others' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Data that cam be validated and checked/approved by others.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
ps, in the real world (and not the PET where some of the naming is way off) upright and wheel carrier are used interchangeably.
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Suggestion
After all the research i have done i believe he most likely has the best spoiler repair kit in the world.
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55 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261026T155324Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Carrera 4S
owners might be interested in upgrading to larger 350mm brake rotors up front - if doing the upgrade we offer a new
Cal*Cool�
kit that includes longer bolts and a novel cooling plate that reduces front caliper temps during spirited or road track driving.
You can learn more
HERE
.
I'm a little confused. Your website states "
Cal*Cool� caliper coolers simply bolt on between rotor and wheel hub assembly
". Shouldn't that state they bolt between the caliper and upright/knuckle? Don't the just become a spacer to move the caliper out further for the larger rotor diameter?
Ok....but still you are not spacing the rotor from it. Your spacing the caliper. If you put it between the "hub" and "rotor" you would shoving the rotor out no different than a wheel spacer.
Trying to understand what your product is. Below is a copy of the Porsche PET. Am i not correct that to install your product, you remove the caliper which is bolted to the "wheel carrier". Then remove the smaller rotor and install a larger 997 turbo rotor. Then place your device between the "wheel carrier" and the caliper with the new provided bolts in your kit? Your site states it is installed between the "wheel hub" (identified as 9 in the PET) and rotor. All that would do is space the rotor out further from the "wheel carrier". How would that allow a larger rotor to be installed?
Technically Mbren is correct - the Rennline description should be..."between the wheel carrier/hub assembly and the Caliper" (not rotor)... What does being "fun at parties" have to do with a poor technical description of a (pricey)product?
Man, tough crowd LOL! I stand corrected. Couple of you are right. Our description had a typo, now corrected (thanks Mbren and dporto), references a cooling assist device inserted between
caliper
and wheel (hub) carrier using longer (and stronger) bolts. The picture in the first post shows it. Yes dporto there are cheaper alternatives out there, but they do not have any effect on cooling assist to the caliper. I'll discount the kit at 25% off for the first 5 to buy and try. 2 year limited warranty.
I don't know how this creates a cooler caliper. Most of the heat on track is transferred from the rotor, through the pad material, to the pistons in the caliper, fluid and so on.
It would maybe enable using larger rotors as the swept area is more outboard and maaayyyyybe more brake torque.
What about wheel barrel and spoke design clearance?
This seems like a solution looking for a problem.
When the caliper gets hot from braking, the heat will not magically radiate down to the mounting point of the caliper to these little gizmos. If anything, this will keep the hub from getting hot, but that's what brake ducts are for.
Hi Michael, yes you can bolt on the 997 turbo 350 mm front rotors, but I'd suggest Sebro slotted (not drilled) 350 mm front rotors which are less expensive and perform better. Best price I've found is Autohaus in AZ. You can use OEM 996 turbo/C4S pads, unless you track the car, then you may want to step up to PFC or Pagid. I can make several suggestions.
So far nobody has answered my question:
Anybody commenting above run their car on the track?
If not, you won't understand the need for this device.
The data will be posted once I have it, latest toward end of this month.
For starter i would assume that questions asked of
YOU
before
YOU
asked yours would be answered first. Second, It would have been nice to know when i ordered your part that since i don't track my car i would have no benefit in it. Guess i must have missed that in your sales pitch. I was also going to leave this alone as me and you had a mis-understanding which is how my order got canceled. But since it looks like you don't care to disclose all of your information, I would like to point out that there are MANY other sellers of the similar product and
MOST
sell them for
$125.00
to do
ALL 4 CORNERS
of the car. Thank god i purchased those instead. Anyone interested PM me and i will direct you to the seller.
You should be the first person to answer your question and should had the answer way before claiming anything. Also, please post the process of your data collection method.
In case it wasn't already obvious...the calipers already come from the factory bolted to a large aluminum heat sink. It's called the wheel carrier. This isn't novel, it's a novelty.
Does everyone who download a free version of Fusion 360 get to call themselves an engineer now? How much more heat is being transferred to the atmosphere through your fins versus it being a plain block? Have you analyzed it as a system, taking into account the fact the wheel carrier is a massive heat block capable of transferring energy to the atmosphere via convection and radiation? This thermally insulates the caliper from the wheel carrier. How do you know this isn't increasing caliper temperatures? You can't show us actual data. Can you at least show us your math that should've gone into its development?
You are scrutinizing people asking questions about your products whether or not they have ever been on a track. So now I am scrutinizing you. Have you ever been in a thermodynamics class room?
Sincerely,
Degreed Mechanical Engineer who works in R&D
Mike,
Yes, you missed the purpose: Post #1 "
novel cooling plate that reduces front caliper temps during
spirited or road track
driving". The 4 corner spacer kit you bought has 8 aluminum collars andbolts for $125. Since you want to make this public, I'll add that your email to me was composed of 3 words "cancel the order". So I promptly refunded your order - no questions. Then you emailed: "
I think we had a miss communication. More my fault then yours. I only wanted to cancel the autoblip. Not the whole order. Can i reorder using the same discount code?"
To all others, point taken, in hind sight I should have collected the data prior to launching here - just couldn't get on the track to collect data. It is really a shame how this public forum brings out the worst in people.
Sincerely,
Degreed Chemical Engineer who worked in R&D, with several patents related to vacuum insulating glass (and others...)
I have nothing to hide about our emails. Feel free to post the entire email so it can be put into context. I placed an order for the kit in the post plus and Autoblip. You replied, thanked me for the Cal Cool order and said that you would not be able to offer the 25% off on the autoblip and asked that i either pay an additional $78 to proceed or i could cancel the order. I responded cancel the order. Since what you were talking about was the autoblip i assumed we were both talking about canceling that part of the order. Either way i admitted in this forum and by email to you that their was a miss-communication. I agreed possibly more mine than yours. Personally i find it hard to believe that you would not have made a profit on the total order - considering for 149.00 would have been 4 bolts and 2 plates. Had you gone thru with the sale you would have had a happy customer and someone on this thread that was on your side. Little profit on a sale and good feedback sounds a whole lot better than no sale and bad publicity for a small bussiness. But i guess some people see bussiness a little different.
And for your comment about missing the purpose? Your claim is subjective. You claim "spirited driving". Please define what that is suppose to be? I drive my car hard. It see's 120mph + driving frequently. Your post didnt say "product only shows results on a race track". For that fact it looks like you have no results to even prove, at least none that you have offered to show.
To me the most sad part about this is my C4S has a twin turbo spoiler. You have (so it seems) made a very good product that replaces the faulty hydro system. I actually fully intended on ordering ypur kit and the next few months. I literally was just trying to figure out what height kit to order. Going to have to rethink that at this point.
You folks have clearly jumped to the wrong conclusion about
RennKit-Dave
.
He and his business partners have developed several superbly engineered products that are vast improvements over OEM setups.
He built a lift kit that replaces the crap hydraulics on a Carrera GT and sold a dozen of them. If he tells you one of his products does something it does it. It works.
Visits his website. All the background information you need is there.
Did you actually read my long winded response? Never said anywhere that i have a product issue or have seen evidence of one. After all the research i have done i believe he most likely has the best spoiler repair kit in the world. I don't care for the way he is coming off on this thread. I run a bussines. We believe in customer satisfaction. We go way beyond to retain our customers. Right or wrong we do whats needed to make sure the customer is happy. In bussiness there are times when you dont always make a big profit on every sale.
I wanted a kit to install larger rotors. When i saw this thread i figured this would be great. A bigger rotor setup and better cooling. I tried to point out a error on his site. Got a response basicly saying i was wrong. After a few others joined dave admitted he was wrong. Truthfully i dont care much about the additional cooling. Its his response to the people asking valid questions on this thread.
The reason i would not buy his spoiler kit is not due to product. Its due to how he comes off in this thread.
You sent him an e-mail saying three words "cancel my order". He canceled your order and refunded your money immediately. What should he have done differently?
As for how he comes off, nearly every post in this thread has been an attack on him and his products. He has done his best to clarify and correct any misconception/misprints.
A quote from Dave ,"
I stand corrected. Couple of you are right. Our description had a typo, now corrected (thanks Mbren and dporto),"
and still the attacks continued. It lifts the phrase "pearls before swine" to new heights.
You can find many threads here praising Dave's products and his customer service. Like
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...-eram-kit.html
Maybe everyone should wipe the slate and start fresh?
When asked where his testing data was by another member, OP ignores the question and just asks if he's even been on a track? Seriously? You consider a part with no real world testing/data collection to be a superbly engineered product? You're kidding, right? Gimmicky parts with no thorough testing have no business in a braking system.
If you researched Dave you would see he doesn't sell "gimmicky parts". It has been tested, it just hasn't been data logged yet.
It only takes eyes and a basic high school knowledge of thermodynamics to see that his caliper spacer with cooling fins will clearly dissipate heat better than the standard aluminum block that is usually used. And the caliper and spacer are bolted the upright, not a "wheel carrier"
As I wrote, pearls before swine.
You sent him an e-mail saying three words "cancel my order". He canceled your order and refunded your money immediately. What should he have done differently?
Again, i already stated many times this was a miss understanding. Let me say it for the last time. We were discussing the Autoblip. That was what i thought he was asking about. I take the blame for that. Done differently? Perception is everything....maybe just accepted the order that i paid for and dealt with a smaller profit margin.
As for how he comes off, nearly every post in this thread has been an attack on him and his products. He has done his best to clarify and correct any misconception/misprints.
Highly disagree that it started as an attack. When you operate a bussiness and offer a product you should expect questions about the product and people questioning the products ability. What has he clarified? He has ignored any question people have asked about data.
A quote from Dave ,"
I stand corrected. Couple of you are right. Our description had a typo, now corrected (thanks Mbren and dporto),"
and still the attacks continued. It lifts the phrase "pearls before swine" to new heights.
Yupp, he agreed after he argued. Then we moved on after he made this statement.
You can find many threads here praising Dave's products and his customer service. Like
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...-eram-kit.html
Again, i agree the e-ram kit is the best on the market. When you have a good product people don't complain about it. The e-ram is a proven product with tons of data to support it. No one is arguing about that product. People are questioning this product with no data to support it. Then questioning the person representing it with his lack of response
Maybe everyone should wipe the slate and start fresh?
I would love too. Exactly how do you suggest we do that?
Since dave was happy to point out the Porsche PET i will gladly redirect you to post #5 which happens to be the PET. It is NOT called an upright. It is clearly labeled as #1 in the diagram. Then below that it clearly labels the description as "Wheel Carrier"
Takking about pearls before swine. More like "pot calling the kettle black"
We obviously have different standards for what constitutes a test. Machining a part and slapping it on to see if it fits is good enough for you. Not for me.
Obviously, it will cool better than a block of aluminum, but you're clearly missing the entire point. The caliper is already bolted to an aluminum heat sink, the wheel carrier. This insulates it from that. What I'm asking is how can he claim that it decreases caliper temperatures without ever testing or providing a basis for his claim? The wheel carrier has far more surface area than a ~20mm block of aluminum. I guess figuring that part out takes eyes and the college level course.
First off him writing,"
the Porsche PET defines it as “wheel hub assembly”. But thanks for your interpretation as well." would not be considered argumentative to a vast majority. Maybe you are being a bit sensitive?
As for attacks, just look at the thread. One post after another.
As for starting over, a great way would be to stop attacking his character on a public forum and deal with your dissatisfaction privately vie e-mail or PMs. I am sure Dave will make it right.
There was more testing than just fitting, just no temperature data was collected. That data is coming.
And right here you have just admitted it will cool better than a solid aluminum block which make all your other statements simple trolling.
And again, these parts are bolted to the upright, not a "wheel carrier". This part replaces the standard spacer block it does insulate anything. Pearls before swine.
First off him writing,"
the Porsche PET defines it as �wheel hub assembly�. But thanks for your interpretation as well." would not be considered argumentative to a vast majority. Maybe you are being a bit sensitive?
Yupp. My butt hurts
As for attacks, just look at the thread. One post after another.
Which could have been avoided by responding to question asked and not ignoring them. And are you not part of this now "one post after another"?
As for starting over, a great way would be to stop attacking his character on a public forum and deal with your dissatisfaction privately vie e-mail or PMs. I am sure Dave will make it right.
I did. When i took advantage of his offer i PM'd him to get the discount code. When things went wrong i did not jump to this thread to "air the dirty laundry". I simply moved on and ordered from another supplier. Thanked him for his time and left it as a missunderstanding. I didn't throw it all out to the thread until i felt his "
anybody chiming in run their car on the track?"
comment that i think the vast majority took as his "slap back".
Are we viewing the same PET? Nowhere is the word "upright" used. I would agree with you that people sometimes call it an upright. No different than in a junkyard the entire assembly is known to be called a "knee".
You don't have clue about what I know, stop thinking you do.
What you have written here tells everyone everything about you, a simple troll with no understanding of brake systems and heat dissipation.
I hit the link. The only thing it proved is you have little knowledge. Lets make this simple so you dont get confused again. I know its hard to keep up with the big boys. But will try for you
I pointed out a incorrect statement in Daves website.
Dave, not me, stated the Porsche PET said something it did not.
I proved with the pictures from the Porsche PET in post 5 it is clearly labeled as a wheel carrier.
I agreed with you. Some people (not porsche) call it an upright. Some call it a kneee. Some call it a knuckle. Call it an aluminum bat for all i care.
The point was and still is dave and you both claim in the porsche PET that it is described as something it is not.
Did ya keep up that time or should i draw a picture with stick figures.
Want more links? On google people call it anything they want too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pors...h=721&biw=1347
Or
https://www.google.com/search?q=pors...h=721&biw=1347
The only way to get reliable data is to conduct it in a controlled environment and the race track is not one. There are too many uncontrolled variables that can influence the outcome. And then there is the controllable one (the driver). If they want, they can easily be just a touch lighter/harder on the brakes and the temperature numbers will be different between tests. If the vendor can't test it in a controllable and repeatable fashion then the claim can't be substantiated and should not be used to sell this product. A lack of proof is not evidence and "I believe" or "logically it should" is not a proof. Also, just because the vendor is selling other products that are proven to be good, has no bearing on this one. Since he claimed that this spaces cools the calipers more than other products then the burden is on him to prove it with valid data.
i'll guarantee you that his brakes will run cooler. and i don't even need to use my degree in mechanical and nuclear physics to do it.
larger rotors = more cooling.
sure, you get more torque from the longer moment arm on a larger diameter rotor, but the biggest benefit is the bigger heat sink from the larger mass of steel and the additional cooling from the fact that it is spinning in air.
do the weird little fins do anything? doubt it. i've seen finned inserts between brake pads and caliper pistons, where the intent was to try and capture heat before it got to the brake fluid, but this? this seems like some really expensive spacers.
ps, in the real world (and not the PET where some of the naming is way off) upright and wheel carrier are used interchangeably.
Wow, you guys beating up on RennKit-Dave? It really is a tough crowd.
He's been around on Rennlist and in the Porsche community for a long, long time. Has earned his stripes many times over engineering great products and providing great customer service. I put $1,700 worth of spoiler actuators on my car back in 2016, and I'd rank it as one of the top 3 mods I've ever done on any of my cars. He knows these cars forward and backward. You might want to see some of the comments from others he's worked with before you're too hard on him. Here's my review of the eRam product, complete with lots of comments from other Rennkit customers:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...-eram-kit.html
As for providing data, if he says he's going to do it, then he'll do it. If you don't like the methodology he's using, then stick with the stock system and save your $$. No need to beat up on him - Dave's one of the good guys on Rennlist.
This has nothing to do with liking or not liking. Is the data valid or not, that's all that matters and the method it is captured makes the difference. When you are claiming something, you need to back it up with scientific data. Data that cam be validated and checked/approved by others. This is just how science works.
