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YOUR RESEARCHHow much of a buzz kill is the Tiptronic in a 996
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There was a guy here who did a lot of club racing (successfully) and only used cars with Tiptronics.
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I had to replace the clutch on my 2000 C2 right after I bought it so there is a $$$ reason to consider a TIP
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It was so bad I didn’t even take it for a test drive.
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Taking one for a test drive will NOT answer your question.
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With the Tiptronic the control is via fingers and no left leg -- and I am still not trained enough to make the manual shifting somewhat subconscious.
I�m in the market for a 996. I had a 986 S and loved it but the convertible thing just didn�t get much use and it�s getting hard to find one where the top is still in good shape. I�ve always had manual transmissions in my fun cars including the 986 and 944 turbo. I�ve always thought about getting a 996 coupe.
A 2002 Carrera 4s is locally for sale, but has the automatic. Does the auto kill the fun? This would be mostly a street car with the rare track day thrown in. Will the auto stand up to track time?
Anyone regret getting the auto, or the manual?
There was a guy here who did a lot of club racing (successfully) and only used cars with Tiptronics. Take it for a drive in manual mode and judge for yourself. You will probably hear from people who have never driven one and will tell you to stay away. Such is the Internet.
There are times I wish I had a triptronic. Namely bumper to bumper traffic and when I feel lazy and it would be easier to not have to shift in city driving.
dont do it, if you are used to manuals you will regret it, automatics from back then are not like the ones today, plus the resale value will be higher on a manual
if you will daily drive it then maybe
I've driven a number of manual sports cars but have owned a 996 Turbo Tip (for sale in classifieds) the last five and a half years and it has been a rewarding experience. The dynamic shift maps in the Tiptronic S (not sure
if the Turbo has different mapping than the NA cars) is almost intuitive. It holds a gear in a tight turn even when revs are high and matches it's shifting patterns to how aggressive you choose to drive. Without having to deal with shifting, I find it easier to think more about weight distribution, traction, turning angles and other dynamic factors. I've never tracked the car, but find Sunday drives more enjoyable - even when there is heavy traffic!
Like others have noted, personal preference but I don't miss shifting any more than I miss manual chokes or carburetors. Time moves on and technology improves.
I’m retired so I don’t have to do rush hour traffic any more but did drive manuals, even then. I wish I could afford a PDK, but I wouldn’t spend that kind of money for a toy.
I purposefully went for an automatic as a daily driver. At 6' 3", shifting can be a bit ..... less than inspiring.
Sure, a manual is more fun but I am looking for a more relaxed driving experience. Besides, when I really want to put my foot down, the 996 does not disappoint.
As well, you can always add the merc paddle shifter mod for a few bucks, if you are handy and into that kinda thing.
If you have always drove manuals even in heavy traffic, sounds like you are a manual guy, I think you would regret it. The Tip is great for daily driving and commuting, and even fun and holds up well on the track, and like has been mentioned allows you to focus on driving which results in faster lap times. I always drive mine in manual mode even for heavy traffic or just commuting (have paddle shifters and also the Tip buttons)and rarely miss "rowing the gears". But I have a 996 6MT also for occasional "fix". The manual will make the car more lively feeling and a bit more fun for the spirited drive. If it is a Turbo 996 I suggest the Tip, they are lively enough, and don't need any "help" from the gear box, and are all you can handle with the Tiptronic. IMHO
Go drive one for yourself, that's the only way you'll know whether or not it's for you. I wanted a tip but a manual fell in my lap and I'm not regretting it one bit.
Now if I had to deal with rush hour traffic on a regular basis, the tip would be my choice.
I have quite a few fun cars and half are manual and half are autos. As time goes on, I prefer the autos, hands down. It does not detract from the driving experience, it enhances it. When I purchased my 996 twin turbo, I went for the tippy. I find a lot of guys comment and are negative on the tippy, and almost all have never driven one. I do appreciate comments from guys whom have owned both, like WYO above. The tippy is sometimes talked down when compared to the PDK, and I will admit, the PDK is fantastic. The tippy is just as good, but it requires a mod to get paddles. The buttons on the steering wheel are a let down. I just purchased everything and will do this mod soon:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-write-up.html
My take is this: Drive a few of each versions and decided for yourself. DON'T make any decisions based on the opinions of others and DON'T think about resale. There are many threads on Rennlist as well as 6 speed that show the tippy tax (lower value) is gone. My 996tt is pushing over 500 HP and is way faster on a track than anyone in a 6 speed in a similar car/setup. It does not detract from the fun factor of the car at all.
My 996 was a Tip. Great car! You have to drive in M mode, though. Like PDK, it will hunt out high gears and low RPM in D mode. Tracked it plenty, performed great!
I must be strange, because I do not like the way an auto behaves in heavy traffic. Manuals, you can just roll in neutral and modulate easily between neutral, first, and second gear. The auto won�t down or upshift at certain RPMs and I don�t like throwing it in neutral if the point of an auto is not to have to move levers and such.
I always had manuals, but switched to a BMW SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox), which is an automated manual (single-clutch). I hated that transmission, mostly because of the jerkiness, and also because of the complexity.
Only you would know if you could live with an auto by test driving each back to back.
I�ve driven a ton in each and unless you�re an amputee or over 85 I can�t see why anyone would buy a tip. Tiptronics from that generation were a far cry from more modern PDKs.
If you are a manual guy, you will regret buying an automatic
to be fair to the TIP crowd if the right car came around and was a tip I would still be tempted (2005 996TTS Cab) I have a 2003 Turbo 6MT in my garage that I have not been driving because it needs a new clutch at 47K miles
I had to replace the clutch on my 2000 C2 right after I bought it so there is a $$$ reason to consider a TIP
Jacob is exactly right....I too have a bunch of cars that are a mix of double clutch and manual. And not too long ago I was a MT bigot. After my experience with my PDKs I have become quite agnostic and I am in the fortunate position to drive the car that meets the need for what kind of driving I want to do. Still love driving manual cars l the most but then I get into a double clutch machine and I am intoxicated by the fast shifts. In traffic, I really appreciate the daul clutch in automated mode...now the PDK experience is getting me thinking of getting a TIP 996 C4S or turbo for winter driving. Also, since I am likely older than most of you, I can also see that in a few years I will be driving only automated cars. Folks also talk about resale of TIP....not sure why that matters because you ae also buying it cheaper as well. Bottom line, I think you drive what you like....there is no right answer... And from my own experience, I am no longer judging....they are al good cars.
I converted my 996 c2 to manual.
Tiptronic is okay. If you want engaged driving it is not the best option.
I can compare back to back for the same car and set up. Tiptronic is slower, revs slower, weighs more and is less agile. It is true that most of us will drive around the track faster in a tiptronic then a manual. But on the street the kick of a manual is much nicer.
You can not compare driving the tiptronic In the NA 996 with its Turbo (S) siblings. The vast additional power and torque makes it a different addition and the triptronic might be more suitable for some of us.
If you decide to buy a tiptronic I highly recommend to do the paddle conversion. And go for the 996.2 rather then the 996.1
I guess it depends on how you plan on driving it. Is it a daily driver? I don't know how hard you plan on driving it but its not like I'm hitting 6000rpm in every gear and driving it hard all the time. My point is people seem to say you need a manual but I just can't figure why unless your driving it like its on a race track overtime you take it out.
To be clear I have a manual but thats because thats what the car I wanted happened to have in it. If it were an automatic I would have still bought it.
As far as resale, who cares? Its a car which means its a depreciating asset. In addition if the resale really is worse, that means you will pay less to acquire it so if you sell and get less you saved it on the front.
Saying you only need a manual on the track is just ridiculous. To me it's not about maximizing performance, its about the joy of driving and the experience. These aren't "fast" cars (Carreras), they're fun cars. There's nothing quite like driving a 911 with a proper stick and clutch.
Go drive it, form your own opinion, A step up in power and room from 986 S
I think Mike has owned a few 986/996 and later chassis, Track experienced. I think he wouldn't sound as positive if it wasn't a good experience.
Personally I've only driven one when my Boxster S was in P shop and I got to use one for a few days. Both my wife and I liked it. I could own one especially if it had Turbo spinning it.
The PDK is nice also, but your looking double you expense.
If you are only considering a Tip because this car is near you and looks nice, then wait for a manual for sure. If you need an automatic because you are in stop-and-go traffic, then 996.2 Tip is sportier than a 996.1. Only get Tip if you need automatic (and I would add only get 4wd if you need 4wd, or a 4s
) because both options add a lot of weight and affect driving feel a lot. I had a 996.1 Carrera 4 Tip and I regretted it, driving fun wise (otherwise a great car), but my wife loved the convenience of the automatic. Now we have a 996.1 2wd manual and love it (wife misses the convenience of the automatic though).
PDK is totally different than Tip -- PDK is an automated manual and the driving feel is essentially the same as a manual. Tip is
very
different from a manual transmission (or PDK) in driving feel.
Get what you like, what we think doesn't matter.
However, if you've always had manuals and generally prefer them, you might not be happy if you settle for an automatic. Or maybe you'll test drive a Tiptronic car and decide you really like it after all.
I can't speak to tip vs. manual on a 911, but I can speak to auto vs. manual generally.
For me
- manual is the way to go. My commute is not, for the most part, stop-and-go traffic; it's more highway than anything else. I'm also blessed not to have back, leg, ankle, or knee problems. I currently have 3 vehicles - a Mazda CX-9 in auto, a Saab 9-3 convertible in manual, and an Audi GT Coupe in manual - and I cannot tell you how antsy I get when I have to drive the CX-9 for days or weeks on end, and it's a "fun" CUV and easily the nicest of the three vehicles.
Im curious, where did I mention its only good on a track? Its a personal preference to each his own. You must have missed the part where I said mine was a standard? Its almost as if you didn't read my comment at all and just made your own conclusions on my thoughts lmao...
I guess i got the idea from when you said,
"
My point is people seem to say you need a manual but I just can't figure why unless your driving it like its on a race track overtime you take it out."
That, to me, says cars should only be enjoyed on/ manuals are only good on the track.
I don't think either of us mean any offense, but have you driven a Tip? I can't speak for the 996.2 Tip, but I rarely push my cars hard and I enjoy every shift with my 996.1 manual and I disliked every shift with my 996.1 Tip. I didn't use manual mode on my Tip enough when I owned it, so maybe I would have enjoyed it more (especially with added paddles!), but even with light throttle and low revs, the manual feels so much more alive and fun (to me at least).
I drove two tips and two manual cars before getting a manual. I think if I would have found the right car, with all other features but a tip, I would have bought that. Choice of trans is important, but I could go with either.
Alright....to me this is almost pointless since it is about preference. You can make this argument about anything else as well:
The following things could also be a Buzz Kill
1) I don't understand how people like 18" wheels and not 17 or 19
2) I don't understand why people want to updated radio with Bluetooth and rear camera
3) I don't understand how anyone can use stock suspension.
4) I don't understand why anyone would change out there mufflers
5) why would anyone put a short shift kit instead of stock
6) Why would anyone get any color other than yellow.
7) why wont everyone just go with Euro GT3 seats.
8) Why even have a radio for god sakes!
9) If you are a true aficionado of sports cars, get rid of that damn airconditioning!
10) etc, etc
I think you all get my point....
I've had a 996 6 speed manual and it was fun to drive on road and track. Before I bought it I test drove a tiptronic and it felt pretty sluggish in comparison. Now I have a 996TT with a tiptronic. With so much extra power and torque I think I would struggle with a manual in the turbo. Plus I daily drive it so it really is the best of both worlds.
Both are good... and both are different.
I dont have much to add that hasnt already been said.
I have the Tiptronic and it's great. But I also wish I had a manual. I deliberately chose a Tiptronic as I wanted a bit more of GT car and something I'd be happy commuting in. Plus in Australia there seems to be more Tips than manuals so more choice on the used market. Over here I dont think the manual commands a premium at all.
Sometimes I love the Tiptronic, and sometimes I feel like I'm not getting the most out of the engine with it.
I think what I need to do is add a light weight stripped out aircooled manual 911 to my garage :-D
So in summary, you need two cars. Buy one of each.
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth: OP should drive both and decide. But if someone likes a manual they probably won't like a Tip. I have a Tip out of necessity, but I've grown to like it. I don't have a PDK Porsche but do have a Ferrari with F1 paddles (similar to PDK in that it's actually a manual trans shifted with paddles - not an automatic like a Tip) and it's very engaging to drive. Regarding performance, I have no trouble keeping up with and passing "faster" manual cars on track with my Tip 996.2.
I went to see the C4S and what a steaming pile of crap. It was so bad I didn’t even take it for a test drive. Terrible paintwork on the outside, a taillight that needed duct tape to stay on the car, interior window moldings that were dissolving and torn up back seats. I mean how does that happen. Who could even sit back there.
Still looking. If I was in the market for a Turbo, I think I’d consider the Tip, mainly because I’d never track it. But for the Carrera, I think I’ll look for the 6mt.
I have a Lexus LS460 FSport with the flappy paddles and manual mode that’s my daily driver. Also a ‘69 427 Corvette 4 Speed. My track car is a C5 Corvette 6mt with 440 rwhp. Selling the C5 to get a 996.
What's your rating levels of buzz killingness?
Detonated IMSB - High Buzz Killington
Driving a Manual vs.Tip Porsche - No Buzz Killington, Smiles for Miles
Get what you want, these questions always garner a bunch of unnecessary bickering, you're going to be the one driving the car so will it kill YOUR buzz? Personally I find the Tip just as fun to drive as a 6MT, but it Tip wouldn't give me the same satisfaction at this point in life.
I come from France where automatic don�t exist, I had never seen or used one before. I only had cheap little french cars (a renault super 5 and a peugeot 206) and after a few years in Hong Kong I missed driving so much I had to find a cheap car. The cheapest car I could find and trust was a 9000 euros 996 and everyone here has automatic.
I was actually blown away, it�s convenient and easy, it can switch to manual (and for me having to switch to the British stupid right-side wheel made the transition less painful), I barely miss the �manly� �switch up when it revs too high�. As you can see I�m an idiot driver who can�t believe he owns a Porsche so might not be the advice you�re looking for, but definitely not as off putting as I would have thought having grown up manual only.
Maybe one thing, if you drive on slow roads, it switches to 5th gear at around 80 km/h with a howling sound, but there are ways to configure it to shift less aggressively.
Not sure what is means to shift to 5th gear with a "howling sound". Yes, it upshifts very early in the lower shift maps, and sometimes that can be annoying but can you explain more about what the howling sound is?
There are some other inaccurate things with the Tiptronic that I've found (this is the Mk2 Tip):
On a manual downshift from 3rd to 2nd it doesn't do a real good job matching engine RPMs. I find I have to add a little gas to get a smooth shift.
It can't detect when the car is going uphill. So on a longer uphill the car needs more power to maintain speed, and therefore uses more gas, and often will downshift. But the Tip computer thinks that the driver is invoking "sporty acceleration" and then puts the car on a higher shift map, which is still in place when you get to the top of the hill. So I find myself upshifting manually sometimes at the top of an uphill when once again on flat terrain.
I practice getting the computer to downshift when flooring the accelerator when in auto mode, but that isn't always so smooth or predictable. Usually when I do this I really want ot accelerate very fast, and I often am not sure which gear the Tip selected -- so I have to glance down at the dashboard when I would prefer to be watching the road.
Sequential gears only: on all the sticks I drive, I sometimes skip a gear, like downshifting from 4th to 2nd. Can't do this with a Tip.
When driving a car that is very familiar and a manual transmission, I hardly have to think at all about shifting. It seems like through all the years my right arm, left leg, and brain have all synced and I always know subconsciously which gear I am in, and what the next shifting action is. With the Tiptronic the control is via fingers and no left leg -- and I am still not trained enough to make the manual shifting somewhat subconscious. So I have to think more about each shift, have to glance more at the dash to see which gear I am currently in. This might get better, but honestly I find that manual shifting the Tiptronic takes more concentration that manually shifting a stick on a car that I am very familiar with.
I always have to worry about which "mode" I'm in, auto or manual. Going to manual isn't much a problem, there is an explicit decision to do so since you shift gear while in auto and then flip the stick left. Now, that is kind of a pain, since there are 2 actions required to downshift and get into manual mode. And I sometimes forget to flip it back into auto mode. Anyway, the point is that if you use manual mode on the Tip you kinda have to be aware, or remember, which mode you are in.
These things don't matter too much, they are pretty small problems, I really like the Tip since I sometimes use the 996 as a daily driver. Oops, here's a boulevard with about 23 traffic lights coming up, or here comes the freeway -- just flip into auto mode and driving is easy. But after 2 years, sometimes practicing, I can't get to that level or driving experience as with a sports car with a stick. You know, when you precisely time the release of the clutch to hit the curve exactly right. Or like I wrote above about being on auto pilot with a familar stick car, it's the union of man / machine in a powerful sports car, when that combination makes everything work so beautifully; that is the state when the driving experience really is a sport. No Nirvana yet with the Tip.
Daily driver here NO track time. I had the same questions a few months ago. Taking one for a test drive will NOT answer your question. I have a C4 cab 6mt and a Turbo S cab Tip. I find myself enjoying driving the 6 speed more. BUT I am getting "used" to the Tip on the Turbo. No question as a daily driver the Tip is "better". My 24-year-old son chided me for getting a tip but last week he called me told me how his knee hurts from shifting in traffic. I'm 60 now I great shape but I seem to always reach for the clutch in the Tip!! Probably because I switch off the cars too much. I hated it at first which is why I said a test drive will not tell you much. After 6 weeks of ownership, I am appreciating it much more! What I do not like is the exhaust note. I LOVE THE PORSCHE SPORT EXHAUST on my C4! I wish I could get the same kind of note on the Turbo. So I may be selling the Turbo...
Oh just the sound a car makes when it�s in 5th gear at low speed, you know, when it clearly under-rev and your only desire is to downshift but you don�t know how to and you grind your teeth and press the pedal to try and make the tip downshift
It�s surely limited to HK where most roads are limited at 80kmh, just above the 5th speed upshift threshold grrr
I would shift at 90 instead if I was in manual mode or when the revs sound �healthy�. That feeling for the engine revs is something I miss a bit, but uphill start without the break is a dream.
+1
This is precisely why i only track my 996....my double clutch cars stay at home. nothing beats a perfectly timed heal and toe at the limit....since it only happens for me 10% of the time i have a long way to go before i get tired of it
Yeah, well it depends on your own individual evaluation of the pros and cons. Although that perfect driving experience is still a shortcoming for me, I still favor the Tip at about 90%, because it makes driving the 996 so much more accessible, and easier to share it with my wife and kids. If I can ever save enough pennies, it's a 997.2 with PDK for me.
Although there is no absolute answer, I think this statement is true -> If you don't need a automatic, get a 6-speed.
The converse, of course, is that if you do need a Tip, get a Tip. If you are on the fence about whether you need an automatic or not, definitely drive both. Neither is better or worse depending on individual circumstances, but the difference between them is not subtle and it's best to try both.
I honestly believe most people can tell which is right for them in one drive. The Turbo Tip isn't a fair comparison -- the Turbo giveth what the Tip taketh away
. In naturally aspirated against naturally aspirated, it's a much bigger difference (or at least it was in my 2 NA 996's). Which one is best is entirely dependent upon each individual driving situation. For anyone who encounters frequent traffic, or has frequent leg pain, Tip is a godsend (even if it isn't perfect, and it isn't). For anyone that doesn't have traffic or physical issues (and likes driving manual), 6-speed is the way to go.
I stayed away from the 996 (I should have bought a Turbo years ago when prices were even lower than now) bc of the IMS/RMS (which to be fair is a legit concern on lower mileage cars, but can be fixed cheaply) and the hate on the TIP transmission. After driving one now almost exactly 1.5 years (C4S) as my DD, I'm glad I have it. The transmission is adaptive in it literally does exactly what that sounds like, and adapts to your driving style. There are a few threads around on it.
Plus, living in the greater Houston area, there is nowhere at any time of day you aren't sitting in traffic, so it makes the most sense as a DD. When you want it to hang on to that last rev, kick it over to Manual and there you go. Plus I've gotten good at the 'kick-down' function, when called upon, and don't even need the wheel buttons anymore for most DD use.
So to answer your question:
1. Buzzkill? Really close to 0
2. Do you want/need a TIP, you gotta drive it. Just when you do, push your foot down like you would on any sports car and see how it goes. My take is you won't be disappointed.
It would be great if somebody who has extensive experience with both mk1 and mk2 Tiptronics could contrast the two. I think there are fairly major differences between the two, with the mk2 being better. I couldn't find a way to love my mk1 Tip, but have never tried the mk2.
If you have a manual , it’s has a better chance of not being stolen , since these younger guys have no idea how to drive a Stick, plus keeps people away from asking to test it , you just say I have a bad clutch maybe later.
So I've owned a 996 Turbo Tip for five+ years (listed for sale) after a series of manual sports cars and have thoroughly enjoyed my time with it. Docile as any automatic around town or in traffic but unleashing the dogs of war only takes a slight press of the throttle. With the hundreds of shift maps in the Tiptronic S once you've awakened the beast it will stay on full alert until you let it calm back down.
Sort of like the Hulk, I suppose. Hulk when you want to smash everything on the road, but the delightful Dr. Banner the rest of the time. Try it out, it really is unlike any of the hundreds of automatics I've ever driven.
I have a 04 C4S with a tip and love it. Granted the 04 has the tip 2.0 with extra mapping. I finally took the time to find the specs provided by Porsche for 2004.
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