Wanting my first Porsche - 996 questions

I�m having a terribly hard time gauging what prices are right for which car. I called about this car today and asked if anything had happened, accidents, rebuilt engine, ect. They said the car is in fantastic shape and the price is right. To be honest, they were nearly taken back at the notion of them selling a �less than desirable� vehicle. a 50,000 mileage 996 for 23k? I�ll post a link at the bottom. I am really just trying to figure out the best way to obtain a mid-mileage, reliable 996 (even in automatic). These are old cars. What do I look to avoid? Get a mechanic to get it on a lift, ect? I am very naive to these salesman and New to this industry. Any help would be great. Thank you https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

PORSCHE Indie PPI is the only way to go.. Borescope all 6 cylinders Oil check, Oil Filter Check, express oil analysis. Read this forum thoroughly ,, the 996 has some things you need to understand, and you will want to decide your risk aversion about. Good maintenance is critical..

What are your plans regarding a 996? Daily driver? Track? Weekend for fun? Year round vehicle? Will you be doing maintenance work or paying a indy mechanic? I�m new to 996s as well, 4 months and 5k miles. Take your time, there are many 996s available. Drive some if you haven�t already. READ this forum!! Get a good PPI (pre purchase inspection) and be willing to walk away as much as you might love the car if it reveals significant issues. Set a budget with a reserve for immediate repairs and then search the net, review actual sales on bringatrailer.com (great resource for prices), and hopefully you�ll find a nice one.

Buying a Porsche is NOT like buying a Chevy Impala or a Honda Accord. It needs a proper Pre Purchase Inspection. Due diligence may cost some money up front but will save you potentially tens of thousand in the long run. If you read thru the history of this forum you will see many threads of people who purchased cars that turned out to be someone else's problem that they sold. A bad motor in one of these cars is going to set you back 15k and these previous post will show you how often it happens. Some people want to see tons of records. I can assure you as a mechanic that the car will tell the story with or without records. Any good mechanic will know a loved car from a pig with lipstick at the beginning of the inspection. The key is to find someone who really knows these cars. Sadly the dealer is not that place in most cases. At a bare minimum the PPI should cost $300 to $500 and MUST include borescoping the cylinders (looking for cylinder bore scoring) and removing the sump plate to look for metal debris and look for plastic bits from the timing chain guides. Again, read a ton in this forum and you should be N expert enough to know if you have found the "right" mechanic for your PPI.

I think that car is correctly priced. Probably no Ims and automatic. Very unique color, aero options and great condition pretty low mileage.

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I�ve only heard reviewers mention the IMS with the 6 speed. Does the automatic need it too?

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Yupp. And its much more expensive on an automatic. Manual trans = trans removal only. Automatic trans = engine and trans removal required to swap IMS bearing.

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No salesman worth his laminated business cards would ever admit a car is garbage. If you're looking at older models, higher mileage is not something to be afraid of. If you plan on driving the car; you want a car that has been driven regularly. Johnny, these cars are not for the feint of heart. They take some keeping on top of. I suggest you start reading a LOT of Rennlist 996 forum, and if you don't get afraid - we are here for you. $25k will buy you a clean Mk2. START!

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-05-30/...86-gen-boxster https://rennlist.com/articles/walk-through-a-pre-purchase-inspection-on-a-porsche-911/

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Perfect answer. Should be a sticky.

I just went through this as well. Paid for two ppis in fact. That is aq must (and lots of dealers won't cooperate with that so be aware). Use this tool to check vins for options: https://vinanalytics.com/ The auto in these cars is not great so unless you really prefer an auto, I would pass. This is an awd model, adds weight and complexity, do you need awd? IMS is a 5% problem. You can sometimes see if it was done here: http://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/ After PPI, service history is important. Sometimes a carfax has that info. Make sure you have the budget for maintenance. Find a good indie shop and understand that 911 parts are expensive.

It just seems to be priced a bit high, PPI is a good idea, I dont like the fact that some were very short ownerships. These cars are 'special" and there are lots of little things that "may" need to be addressed...(Cabs are even more "special") Before you buy a Porsche, you MUST read up....the GOOD the BAD and the UGLY. AND, test drive a few...make a PORSCHE IS THE CAR FOR YOU.

The purchase price is just the start after a PPI a true �all in� price will show itself. I prefer buying from.a Porsche owner instead of a dealer try looking on Rennlist, Pelican and PCA Great value in our cars buy right and enjoy Rich

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This post is probably the first post that ever brought a tear to my eyes! It's like an angel descended to touch any soul that reads this thread! lol Wise words!

So this thread has been incredibly helpful. I can�t thank you all enough. So here is my next dumb question. If this car is out of state and across the other side of the country, how do I get a PPI done? Reach out here and find someone who knows a good mechanic in the area, or just stick to buying local ?

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You obviously need to do a LOT of reading here ! before posting.

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I mean I saw the way the car looked and asked about it. I know nothing about cars , let alone notoriously problematic Porsche�s.

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Post up where there car is. Maybe someone here can recommend a shop.

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Those words warm my heart!

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It depends on what this purchase means to you. If this is a big financial stretch and getting a super-reliable car is extremely important, then...buy something else, honestly, but if you want one of these, do a PPI like others are saying, take your time and find one you can document has been really well-taken care of. Especially since you say you know nothing about cars, I'd probably recommend just not buying one of these. They require some upkeep and so you're going to be hemorrhaging money to a specialist, to A) qualify the car, and then B) keep it running. You could also just gamble. If this is NOT a big financial stretch, and in fact you can afford to throw the car away, then just find one you like and buy it. That's what I did!! No PPI, none of that crap, just find one that's priced right (high teens, I'd say), just give it a test drive, make sure it looks/feels/sounds/smells good, and buy it. Maybe 1-5% of the time you're going to get a flawless car that needs nothing. Congratulations! You got lucky! 80-90% of the time it's going to be "okay", and you're going end up finding $5k worth of stuff you want to fix. Which gets you to the ~$23k asking price of the car you're looking at, but now it's awesome, everything important is recently refreshed, and you love it. Worst case scenario, it's fatally flawed, blows up, you sell it as a roller or part it out, and you lose ~$10-12k on the deal, and in the meantime, for as long as it lasts, you got to drive a Porsche 911. Not a terrible deal, and a lot less of a loss than the $20k engine rebuilds people always talk about as the potential downside. My advice is to only buy cars you can afford to pay cash for, and you can literally afford to push off a cliff and not feel the financial repercussions of it. If you can't do that, then you're just going to be worried about it and not enjoy driving it.

dkraige, I like the way you think. I feel the same way.

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I honesty don�t think I have ever been on a forum that gives such detailed, comprehensive answers. This is a Porsche forum. It�s no secret that there is clearly big money here and I don�t fit into that mold. I feel like the biggest hang up here is this IMS trouble. If that car that I posted ran flawlessly, it doesn�t even matter because if the IMS doesn�t get serviced it�s just more and more money. I am beginning to lean towards finding a less desirable but more local car. If I can drive it in person and get a PPI from someone I know, I�ll go ahead and do it.

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The best advice i can give (besides my earlier post) is do a ton of research until you feel like an expert before buying a 996. An impulse buy will be the first to bite you in the butt. Check your local PCA chapter. You would be surprised how many cars may be in you local area. Check your local Porsche dealer for 996's or maybe they can find you one. My local dealer is where i got mine and they seem to sell 4 or 5 a year. A good example of finding someone great to do your PPI is how i purchased mine. I purchased mine from Porsche of Orlando. Before buying it (and even looking at in person) i did all the research and got my knowledge. I am a mechanic. A damn good mechnic. But i am no Porsche Expert. I searched these forums and found a lot of people talking about a local indy shop call Drivers Choice. People were saying thats all they mainly repaired was Porsche's. Even heard they mechanics had previously worked at Porsche of Orlando. After a little research on them i also found out that they are big into the local PCA chapter and are huge into racing. At this point i knew they were they shop to ask questions (remeber, i'm a mechanic!). So now i knew the questions, new the car - time to head to the dealer with my fighting gloves on. Long story short, the salesman was a cool guy and admitted the car had no history of the IMS being replaced and they suspected it was due for a clutch (had 61k on it). When i pushed slightly about this the salesman offered to go 50/50 on the repairs or discount the car. I asked about a PPI and they had no issue with me taking it to anyone. Then came the surprise. The salesman said Porsche of North America did not approve of IMS replacements. So they were actually going to send the car out to a local Porsche Specialist to do all the repairs. When i asked who - the response was Drivers Choice in Longwood. At that point i knew i was good. For a Porsche Dealer to have a 996 on their lot at this age it had to already meet some good quality control standards. Then for it to got to the same people that rennlisters also bragged about. Needless to say i have a 996 now that i love and has been perfect. I will admit i have thrown several grand at it in maintenance like water pump, tstat, battery, spark plugs and coils, radiators, and every fluid swapped plus some and ton of goodies. But now i have a car that i know will start every weekend and will go for a few hundered mile drive with zero issues. We can all tell you the same thing. But the best piece of advice any of us can give you is be patient and READ THIS FORUM until are an expert. It's no different than hiring a roofer. Your not gonna have the first company that comes out reroof your house tomorrow. Your gonna look at several cars and do tons of research. my car when i purchased it a year ago at Porsche of Orlando as it sits before me now.

Or i can keep it simple....... Don't go buy any 996, go find your 996!

The main issue being the engine doing an IMS explosion, you can always make it 'BULLETPROOF" by swapping in an LS3 CHEV engine. when/if it does.. say 500 HP I had a CHEV/JAG XJ 6 years ago after the Jag engine blew a headgasket.....what a blast.. What is a nice Cab roller going for these days?

@mbren1979 gives great advice. Reading this forum daily there are things that I learn about option codes and maintenance every day, even after a year of reading. I bought a red targa a year ago. I had previously had a C4s several years ago. Have bought several 996's to flip in the last year as well. The things I learn here are so helpful. For instance the first cars I would look at a year ago were terrible and I had no clue what I was doing . I love my red Targa to death. But knowing what I know now I would have waited longer and probably not have even considered it . The point is just wait and learn. Become an expert. My last few 996 purchases were excellent buys. The stuff I bought and was ready to buy after three months of research I would find troublesome or laughable knowing what I know today.

If I�m aiming for a car mid 20�s that has no IMS replacement, is it better to just bite the bullet and pay the higher price with the IMS already done. Most of the high 20�s 996s seem to all have it serviced As well as looking in much better shape...

Buy a car that meets all the check boxes of what you want out of a car. I personally dont mind and rather prefer to buy a car that has not had the IMS done so i will be able to see the bearing that comes out (gives a small indicator of engine health) and then i know 100% it has been done and it resets the time clock on the new bearing (depending on if you go with the regular LN bearing or the Solution). If i were you i would try to find a unmolested car that looks to be all original yet good indicators of maintenance. As an example, and some people will argue with this, when you are kicking tires - look at what kinda tires are on the car. When cars come in our bays i can tell you that in most cases the guy who has a set of Michelins on the car and keeps the car clean has a habit of keeping uo with proper maintenance. The car with some cheap chinese tires tend to be neglected.

Just as a loose benchmark, I checked mine out myself, I could have done a full PPI but my basic inspection was not tipping any alarms, after purchase i dropped it at my local indie, and 2500 later we had all the fluids, pan drop etc and a new coolant tank, cap, spark plugs, couple of minor parts that got replaced while other work was done.. the oil change and general checkout was about 250 bucks of the total. I hadn't quite decided how important a IMS check was,, but service record had a new clutch at 65K and the car has 100 on it. I was buying a awesome chassis. I find I can work through engine issues if I have to,, but I find major body issues cost more. I guess the message is,, Budget at least a couple grand to get the car to a baseline, then a couple grand a year in maintenance ,, if you don't need it,, your ahead. Cheers

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I wouldn't consider these cars notoriously problematic. They are unique. I spent about 6 months looking for the car I eventually purchased. I almost pulled the trigger on a couple due to my impatience. I'm glad I waited. I purchased mine in CA. Sight unseen other than some photos. PO showed me their service records, and CarFax was perfect. The IMS had not been done. I had a local Indi shop in San Luis Obisbo do a PPI. Guy over at SGS Independent was beyond amazing. After the PPI I had them do the RMS, IMS, Alt, Coils and Plugs, lube oil filter. They used Castro Edge and not Mobile 1. Guy says he's not a fan of Mobile 1 and does not use this oil unless specified by the owner. I've already put almost 4000 miles on the car since purchased with not a single issue yet. I can do a lot of work myself so that helps. There are a lot of these cars on the market with varying pricing. If you are patient, you can find a nice sorted out car that will give you miles of trouble free driving. Be impatient and buy the first one that shows up, you may be taking a gamble. I lurked on this forum for months soaking up all of this info until I found the right car. I don't regret the purchase at all. Kyle

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Just make sure you understand how much time is left on the replacement bearing. I've seen a lot of cars go up for sale that have had the bearing done but they're overdue or close to replacement time again. Unless it has the LN IMS Solution, it's not a one and done replacement! Service history for the previous 5 years is important as these old cars need regular attention.

I just picked up my first p-car a few days ago and I bought from a private seller in another state. Good communication is key. Get as many records as you can, run the carfax, and seek out an indie shop in the seller's area to do a ppi. Most importantly know what you are looking for and do your research. In the end we decided on a price, I flew out and I drove my car home. IMO, if you find a nice example with stock IMS, I would not immediately turn away, just factor that into the final offer. Good luck!

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Fully agree. I wanted a 911 for over 30 years. I told myself I could not have my fun car if I could not pay cash. No PPI and as far as I know the IMS has not been touched. The PO did have an extended warranty and I was able to get the records for the previous two years. Every service item had been fixed and mileage interval inspections completed early. The AOS & Alternator have failed and a pothole forced an early set of Michelins. Purchase price less than a new Hyundai. Repairs and upkeep in 2.5 years probably more than my old Hyundai in 13 years. Yes, a full hull loss would suck like no tomorrow. However, I would buy another 911.

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Definitely let us know where the car is, and maybe someone can 'pre-inspect' it, just to make sure the car is as represented and doesn't have any major issues before you spend money on a PPI. I've done it for people, and they've done it for me. Once you're ready for one, guys here usually have a good line on a local indy for an inspection. I used pcarshops.com when no one had a recommendation for me.

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Well you definitely don't need "big money" to own one of these, IF you look around first and get a good example to start with. I paid $18k for mine back in late 2015. In terms of *necessary* maintenance it's been probably an average of $1-2k a year. It can come in big chunks though...you might have zero maintenance required for many months, and then all the sudden a $1000 component fails. So just be ready for those big bills when they pop up. Overall my operating costs haven't felt much different than something like a BMW or Audi. The good news is that in that time the car has not lost any value, and perhaps has appreciated a few thousand bucks. So it's been pretty much free to own if all I was doing was daily driving it. If I'd bought a similar-performance car of another marque (Audi S-car, BMW M-car, etc.), it would have depreciated by many thousands of dollars in the same time. I've burned up a bunch of money in tires and brakes on the track, and on optional stuff that suits my preference, but that's by choice and nothing abnormal about this particular model of car. In fact, the brakes are dirt cheap, and the tires aren't that big so they aren't bad either.

If you just want a Porsche, a Boxster has a much lower cost of entry. They can be had super cheap, and the engines are much less costly to replace, if you end up grenading one. If you end up loving it and not minding the cost of ownership, you can always upgrade to a 911 later. If you've never owned a Porsche, they're a good gateway drug. Also, the IMS is the most over discussed topic on these cars. If you're mechanically inclined and have the tools, you can (relatively) easily swap it out for a quality replacement for under $800, and then don't think about it again until the service interval comes up.

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I will say this, as someone who bought an 03 Carrera 4S, with (probably) no IMS done, with around 80k miles on it, is that find the car YOU want and hold off until you can afford it, or find one comparable. I should have bought a similar and probably better condition and lower mileage 996 years ago (when prices were much more reasonable for all Porsche models), but I read a few slightly misleading posts/'horror stories" about the whole IMS thing. Don't let it be a reason not to buy one. The higher-mileage cars, if the IMS/RMS has not failed, probably will not fail, and most honest techs will tell you. Being in the Houston market we are spoiled for high-end shops, and both places I go to have said having it fixed is a waste with this many miles on the clock. So I've been driving mine since Nov. 2017 as a daily driver with no worry about that happening, and I have the Tip transmission. The IMS "fix" isn't that expensive, and some sellers will let you know if it's been done or not, but don't let it hinder your desire for this model. I think 5% of cars affected is probably a high number, from what I've seen/read on here. If I were you, I'd say set a target price of around $25-27k and get THE best model you can and you will definitely be able to negotiate down. A Cayman is also a nice and cheaper option to get a Porsche, but I wanted a 911 so this was a great start.

RSBro, I don't entirely agree with your logic (if it hasn't failed yet, it isn't going to), although I respect your opinion. Pretty much any mechanical item will fail eventually, and these cars seem to have more than their fair share of particular failures, including the IMS bearing. It is cheap insurance to upgrade the IMS bearing and maintain it (replace on a schedule) or do a longer lasting solution (LN IMS Solution), if that is in your budget. Unless you have a late larger bearing engine that requires engine case splitting, replacing the IMS bearing seems like a pretty darn good (and relatively economical) idea to reduce the risk of this failure mode.

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Ever the helpful one. Link leads to an ad from Pohanka Lexus in Chantilly, VA. Interesting they were unable to determine the drive configuration or type of transmission. Fortunately, they provided lots of photos to help answer those questions. Since some buyers might actually be interested in this information... That had me scratching my head too. Don't let the OP know about the other 57 failure modes...

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I understand, and should have said "is less likely to", specifically for that issue. I've never personally met or talked to any 996 owner where that failure has happened, and as I said, both techs I use (who typically are always looking for more $, as most practitioners in the industry are) said at my mileage rate it's even less than the supposed "5-10% of cars fail" (although not sure where that comes from aside from hearsay). One of them has never had it happen, the other once in almost 35 years of practice, FWIW. What I meant to get across from my comments were, that issue alone should not prevent you from finding a nice 996 and buying one, like it did me for so long. Like others, before buying and driving a 996 I felt like (from reading stuff here and other places) the car was literally seconds away from implosion on every single 996 produced, and that's simply not the case, especially in the higher mileage vehicles. If someone wants to spend the money on one of the solutions they're welcome to, but I personally haven't and for 18 months now haven't really given it a second thought. Our cars certainly have OTHER issues as well, but this seems to be an exaggerated issue for new owners (especially new members/posters here) and all I'm saying is if I knew then what I know now about IMS/RMS, I would have done things differently some time ago.

Extensive PPI on the car, test drive it, take it to a reputable independent mechanic. I don't mean to be fear mongering, but I have put a lot of money into my car due to not reading up on the car and being trigger happy. Do not do what I did, I love my car but Id have saved a lot of headaches by being more careful. Make sure that you are patient, its better to wait now than to wait while the car is at a mechanic's shop