24 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWho has upgraded from ROW M030 to PSS9/10?
Leading reported evidence
Install pss10s
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Leading evidence: 'Install pss10s' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'little tighter' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust their' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I also have a set of 18" sport designs that I love its performance on the street, so I set the Pss9 stiffer than the 19" street.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
In any event, my research shows that the shocks are completely different, the spring rates are are dramatically different, and the sway bars used are typically much bigger.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Maybe the better question to ask is if any of the PSS9/10 boys regularly switch/adjust their setting, how easy is it, and how often do they do it.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
FWIW I'm told the PSS9 is not all that stiff and probably a little tighter then a M030, but by no means a track set up.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
24 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T135432Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I've been running the M030 suspension for a while, and have been toying with the idea of upgrading to PSS9/10. I've done a load of research, but there is very limited follow up to those that upgrade - and what they like / dislike about the change. My real inquiry relates to the return on cost between the two in terms of performance. If the change is 10% "better" [to the owner] on the road/track, then I wouldn't be as interested as if there is a 50% improvement in various categories. I understand that it would be hard to quantify unless you have track data, but "seat of the pants" impressions still have value to me.
In short, if you have upgraded to PSS9/10 could you please post some thoughts about the change. If you go to the track, it would be great if you had some overall impressions on the change and maybe event some data.
Thanks!
-td
Curious what your motivation for the switch is. Are you not happy with RoW M030? This is the Euro sport suspension; no? What improvemment are you looking to get from the coilovers?
The reason why I ask is I am thinking of going to Euro M030 from my stock suspension. I'm looking for a modest drop, better handling and I have been told that my cab will noticably benefit from the 030 sway bars. I don't track the cab, just looking to improve the handling and look and 030 seems like a good choice.
Please expand on your reasons for wanting to move off 030.
Thanks.
I can't answer the pss9 change over, but stock compared to M030 is a significant change and well worth the conversion. I feel the stock suspension is like a Mercedes and the M030 is what a Porsche should be.
As a fellow cab owner who recently upgraded to the RoW M030 suspension, I can wholeheartedly encourgage you to take the plunge. The car is substantially more planted now, floatiness at high speeds is eliminated, fast sweeping corners don't feel rubbery anymore, and hard tight corners are more easily taken with aplomb. Frankly, though it rides a little 'harder/firmer' than stock, the new suspension actually seems to handle bumps and indentions much more smoothly and comfortably. Also, give it about a month to settle in and you'll really be pleased with the feel AND the look.
Thank you Edward. The results you have described sounds EXACTLY what I am looking for. My main complaint with the stock is the "floatiness".
For me a coilover set seems like overkill and the M030 appears to be very good value.
How long have you had your's on and where did you order it from?
Regards,
It's not that I'm not happy with the M030. It's a great improvment over stock. The big issue is that you only one form - "sport mode." That is, it's always on, always stiffer than stock and not adjustable. It's definitely better than stock, but so is PSS9/10. My question is whether PSS9/10 is really worth $1500+ (just in parts) more than M030. And, after having the M030 for more than a year, and looking back, I feel like I should have saved my pennies and got the PSS9. I would have a better suspension overall, and the ability to change ride height. The great part about not upgrading to PSS9 last year, is that he PSS10 is now circulating
I was hoping that those that went step wise (stock - M030 - PSS9) would have a little input as to their thoughts for upgrading and their impressions afterwards. I know that lots of folks have done one or the other, but there has to be someone that did both...
In any event, I am seriously contemplating moving from the ROW M030 to the PSS10 with GT3 sway bars. If so, my MO30 will be up for sale in the near future.
[and FYI - the drop is not that significant, even after the suspension settles in]
-td
First, I agree that it's not adjustable and always in sport mode, but in my buddy's adjustable 997 C2S, he's always riding in sport mode also, finding the comfort mode just way to floaty. Also, unless it's adjustable by a button inside the car, it's more of a hassle.
Second, 20mm is more than enough drop for me. Frankly, I feel that my car looks perfectly balance now around the wheel well. Car just got washed so I'll try to post some photos this week.
I went from M030 to X73, so I can't offer a personal response. But, my impression talking to other guys and reading in this forum is that the PSS9 is better than the M030 only in that the PSS9 is adjustable. However, most of my friends who went the PSS9 route find a setting they like and leave it there.
In your post above, you seem to be asking whether it is worth the bucks to be able to switch between stiffest/lowest to street comfortable rather than just the always sport mode of the M030. Sorta like the PASM in the 997 series. Maybe the better question to ask is if any of the PSS9/10 boys regularly switch/adjust their setting, how easy is it, and how often do they do it. You may get more answers that will help you decide if it's worth the switch.
Once I got it height adjusted (key) and corner balanced (not so necessary), I've never messed with the settings. It's set in the middle stiffness setting.
I regulary switch settings on my pss9 (I have a lift so its easy for me)... I rotate my wheels 2-3 times a year. I currently ride on 19's and find with the lower profile I find it a harsh ride and rely on the pss9 adjustment to compensate for it. I also do 3-4 DE events and adjust to the stiffest on a set of track wheels that I use. I also have a set of 18" sport designs that I love its performance on the street, so I set the Pss9 stiffer than the 19" street. As for track duty, I set it at stiffest and I am happy with them... I had US m030 and it is night and day with pss9's. I also use H&R sways and I love the flexibility and handling of my setup.
I tried to do a thorough search before I started this thread, and I didn't the comment above on the 996 board, the racing/DE forum, or anywhere on 6speed. Maybe I was using the wrong keywords. In fact, I didn't see a lot of commentary from people who did the M030->PSS9. Most did one or the other, and there is lots of talk about the PSS9 set-up. In any event, my research shows that the shocks are completely different, the spring rates are are dramatically different, and the sway bars used are typically much bigger. [Interestingly I haven't seen any sign that someone has downgraded from PSS9 to M030...]
However, I would be interested in knowing what respects those folks thought the M030 was just as good as the PSS9. It might be that for the typical garage queen, there would be no difference between the two
Good thought, but it avoids the question of whether actually switching was worth it and it kinda puts the PSS9 question in a vaccuum, which I am trying to avoid. I'm not really looking for how PSS9 operates or how easy it is to change or what people think about PSS9 in general. I'm looking for specific feedback from those that did the switch form M030, and a direct comparison between the two. Once you start talking about PSS9 specifically, you get "buy JIC" "H&R" "buy JRZ" "buy Ohlin" "buy KW" "buy Moton" etc.
It actually looks like those that take the M030 route are generally happy with it, and those that go the PSS9 route are happy as well. It appears that only a minority of folks go from M030 to PSS9. For me, the M030 was a great upgrade over stock, but for the price difference, I'm still wondering if PSS9 was the better choice...
-td
td,
I'm from the 964 side of the house, but this should still be applicable. I started out with US M030, switched to Bilstein HDs w/H&Rs, then to Euro RS springs/Bilsteins & swaybars. I recently installed PSS10s... kept the RS swaybars.
After looking at many spring rates and valving numbers, the best I've come up with is that Bilstein valves their PSS9/10s such that the soft settings are fairly close to M030 valving, and the stiff settings are fairly close to RS specs, with fairly slight variations between Pcar models. The soft stock settings seem to be left out, so PSS9/10s assume a generally more sporting intent.
For me, I felt the PSS10s were absolutely worth the additional expense. I had just come off of Euro RS shocks/springs, and while they were great at the track, they would beat me up pretty badly around town. With the PSS10s, I'm still playing with the settings, but they can very nearly reproduce the Euro RS handling when set full stiff. Around town, I'm happy to be able to dial it down to the soft settings for an M030-esque ride. It's been the best of both worlds.
If mostly street driving and a few track days a year describes your use, then the PSS10s would work very well. If you foresee spending more and more time at the track and eventually transforming yours into a Cup car, then maybe skip a step and save for Motons/JRZs for near infinite adjustability. I think at the bottom of the slippery slope where slicks & full cages are, the PSS10s will likely be out of their range.
Hope this helps.
Roland
You should come around more often. Sound advice.
Very rarely if ever do people go from PSS9s to M030. For good reason. The PSS9s offer more options and improve handling that the Porsche simply doesn't offer as an option on our cars.
It's like the shifter. The stock height sucks. Get the B&M and rarely do people go back to the stock height shifter.
Stage I is kinda like this: PSS9s/10s/KW3s. More street, less track.
Stage II is kinda like this: Motons/Ohlins/JRZs. More track, more street, everything you want.
The question really is what are your goals and motivations. How much ride are you willing to give up and how savy are you at setting up the suspension. Many guys buy Moton and have no clue how to set them up. Suspension is a give and take and stiffer does not always handles better. When you have so many varriable like sway bar setting, shocks, aprings when you change one aspect you have to change another to make it work right. The reason so many people just leave it at one setting is because they don't have the knowledge to make it work better. Most PSS9 are set up for a good compromise for the street, now the question is how much better is this setting is then a M030 and what are the negative ie ride. If you do a lot of tracking then you really have to learn how to set up the shocks for each track, as different road surfaces cause different settings. FWIW I'm told the PSS9 is not all that stiff and probably a little tighter then a M030, but by no means a track set up. If you are looking for something for the track you should look into a Cross system.
