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YOUR RESEARCHIt's that time of year again=winter tire opinion
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Blizzak LM-25s), but I'm lazy and leaning toward just putting a really good set of A/S tires on the car (Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S are rated well), which I'd have installed when the car arrives.
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I ran 4 Dunlap M3's on a Audi TT and they were fantastic snow tires.
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I run Dunlop M3 Wintersports on a SAAB 9-5 Aero and they are phenomenal.
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I use 14 mm H & R spacers for the summer (with the hollow spoke wheels) to fill out the wheel wells.
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When I had my narrow body C4 I used 17" rims with snow tires.
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Blizzak LM-25s), but I'm lazy and leaning toward just putting a really good set of A/S tires on the car (Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S are rated well), which I'd have installed when the car arrives.
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Suggestion
Questions: (1) am I nuts not to buy dedicated wheels/snows; (2) if I opt to go the route of replacing the factory tires with A/S, should I do all 5 (car has full spare) or just 4; and (3) am I just nuts?
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OK, I am thinking of using my garage queen C4S this winter unless there is a lot of snow on the ground or in the forecast. I have a Suburban that has remote start that I rarely need to activate 4x4 since it is so damn good. For you winter experts....should I look at all season or go for winter tires? Keep in mind I have two sets of wheels.
TIA!!
Steve
Greetings from Minnesota! First flakes yesterday, but no accumulation. Winter setup goes on next weekend because of the temp. . . . I did not see a lot of choices available for my 2003 C4S, with winter setup from TireRack. I read a bunch of reviews and went with Blizzaks. Let's compare notes next spring.
Hey, I was in Minneapolis 8/1-8/3=bad week for MN! My roots are from Duluth. It looks like you have to go a little narrower in the winter for good reasons. I was on TR as well and have heard good things about blizzaks. I guess I am buying these to relieve the MSPCs and insure myself if I get caught in light snow?
Go with winters and swap. They are a lot better than allseasons in the winter and then you get the benefit of great tires perfectly suited year round. Indeed, if you can find some wheel takeoffs, it'll be easy to swap each year. It's what I do. But, the winter wheels aren't going on for another month or until the temp gets below freezing for a week.
I had kumho all seasons on last winter, only because that is what was on the car when I purchased it. Seemed to be fine, actually drove better than my SUV. We only had one or two days with big snow last year - one was new years eve and just left it in the garage on heavy snow days. Minnesota also.
Very fun in light snow (under 6 inches). C4 also.
Winter tires!! I haven't even thought of that this year - it's still in the 80's here. Heck, we still have track days down here until the middle of December!
But, for the winter, I use Pilot Sport A/S. They work great for our harsh Texas snow days
-td
I did a rennlist search for winter tires, and Pirelli came up over and over. I feel more comfortable listening to actual 911 owners, as opposed to TR, which has Hondas, BMWS, etc, etc.
I came to the same conclusion about Pirellis. Mine are getting mounted on a set of BSA wheels for winter, going on the car when I get the oil changed in a couple of weeks.
Last winter I went with Pirelli Snowsports 240 N-rated (Porsche approved) winter tires on OEM turbo twist wheels; bought the second set used off the PCA classifieds. Fronts are 235/40/18, rear are 295/35/18. Slightly higher sidewalls than the summer tires and the ride is a bit softer, but it works great in the white stuff and absolutely no issues with ABS and PSM. Car handles better in the wet, ice, slush, etc... than any SUV I've ever driven.
Swapping to the winter set-up next week.
You're in my neighbourhood... what's your experience with salt etc? This is my first winter driving the P full time. I know it's been winter driven in the past, but not sure how fussy folks are with them in this Toronto crap. They're calling for a nastier winter this year...
Rust is not a worry since these cars are well protected. It's more the stone chips from the salt that can be damaging. So I'll stay off the highways and stick to slower roads when they are actively salting.
I hate having a dirt car so I religiously power wash it at one of those coin-ops at least once a week and really blast away at the undercarriage. I also take it to Deny's car wash on Mavis south of Central in Mississauga and have them wash it...it's a no touch system but more importantly, the wheel track is wide enough and coated to handle my 11" rear wheels with no damage. My biggest worry is when it's really deep because the car is so low. The couple of times that it was ugly out there, I just worked from home those days...benefit of being self-employed!
I use Blizzaks in the winter. Compared to my summer PP's, they are louder and don't do as well in the rain. In dry weather they stick remarkably well for winter tires. Also, they ride stiffer than the PP's. I'm very pleased with their performance on snow and ice - I even passed a Volvo stuck going uphill last winter. Had to swerve off the beaten path to make the pass but I was smiling all the way.
I just bought, but have not yet installed, a set of Blizzak LM25 on my spare 17 inch twists. I'd originally ordered Pilot Sport A/S, but decided if I was going to have a set of winter wheels, then they should be real winter wheels. It's probably overkill for my climate. In the end, the weather should be the deciding factor.
driving in snow is a blast. I have GT3 replica wheels coming, leaning toward Dunlop winter SP. Still on the fence about the width and profile. I believe Porsche has a recommedation, trying to find it.
I bought replica wheels and Blizzak LM25's too. I need to get them mounted, but I can't wait to see how this car handles in the poor weather. I would imagine anything deeper than half foot on the ground will make me become a snow plow.
J
I live in MN also and I had never even thought about driving my C2 during the winter except on dry cold days. So, Salt does not hurt these cars rust wise? I understand the salt damage from chunks after a snow but this may be a fun option for nice winter days. Mine is not a C4 so does that make a HUGE difference? I would imagine that since the engine is right above the drive wheels, that would give it fantastic traction. Your opinions?
Paul
The thing that never thrilled me about Blizzaks is the winter compound is only through the first 2/3 of the tread, then the rest is all season compound, unless this has changed in the past decade or so......
No, having a C2 isn't gonna make TOO big of a difference. You have all that weight over the drive wheels so it'll do fine in the snow.
I used to live in Michigan and drove a '67 912 in the snow, in fact I used to deliver pizzas in it. I became the master of e-brake turns on the unplowed roads- it was a blast
. I never drove any car in the snow with actual winter tires, though, used to drive on half-bald summer tires in all my cars and I did just fine, so snow tires would be a gift from the gods as far as I'm concerned.
As far as salt and corrosion goes, it isn't a big deal as long as you have the bottom of the car sprayed clean whenever the weather allows. A few months of the worst sludge and salt conditions will wash away and isn't going to hurt anything.
I finally looked at the manual for my C4S and it suggested 265s for rear with 10 inch wheels. Since I am using the stock turbo twist wheels I am going to call Damon and order the same size that came with the car originally and am leaning toward Pirelli.?
This will be my 7th winter with the 996 C2. I have had 17" Pirelli's for a few years but switched to Blizzaks. I like the 17" Blizzaks better. They are not noisy and do better in icy conditions. Deep snow (especially refrozen) beats up the plastic undertrays. Most of mine are either cracked or broken. They use a combo of sand and salt around here so I do run the ugly removable clip on mud flaps from Tweeks. The sand will strip the paint off the rear quarters in a hurry. A local Shell station has a no touch/no rail carwash with underbody wash that i use during the winter months.
Nothing looks better than a Porsche driving in the snow. With my winter tires on, my car handles better than most SUVs sporting all seasons on the road. The only caveat is really deep snow which turns the front of our lower cars into a plow.
I am also planning to go with Porsche recommended Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport 225/40R18 fronts and 265/35R18 rears. They recommend 10J x 18 for the rear but my stock Turbo Look II wheels are 11J x 18. According to my dealer, the 265/35R18s will fit and work fine with the 11J x 18 but "will look a bit odd" because the tire contact tread width will be noticeably narrower than wheel rims.
Can anyone share any experiences or shed some light with 265/35R18s on the 11J x 18? Or is it necessary for safety and/or performance to get a pair of 10J x 18 rears just for winter use?
I got the narrower wheels but for a different reason. Since you are likely to get 5 seasons or so off of the winter tires, do you really want the bead to be stretched over the lip five times? I don't, so I sprung for some inexpensive rims. Plus it makes the switchout so much easier.
I went with the advice of Pongobaz:
Last winter I went with Pirelli Snowsports 240 N-rated (Porsche approved) winter tires on OEM turbo twist wheels; bought the second set used off the PCA classifieds. Fronts are 235/40/18, rear are 295/35/18. Slightly higher sidewalls than the summer tires and the ride is a bit softer, but it works great in the white stuff and absolutely no issues with ABS and PSM. Car handles better in the wet, ice, slush, etc... than any SUV I've ever driven.
Damon at T/R says that with stock ride height this set up should work. I am having the tires mounted on my my stock wheels today which have an 11 inch width in the rear. I should have them on by 5 pm e.s.t. today so I will post pics and any issues.
Steve
Riad, yes. I have MPSCs on GT2 wheels so I thought I would put the originals to work since they are hard to sell? The fronts are a bit wider but the diameter is pretty darn close.
Steve
Go to this link and enter the front summer tire size and then the front winter tire size and it will do all of the calcs for you. Then repeat the process with the rear tire sizes.
Tire Size Calculator
Riad,
you won't have any issues with that set-up. I'm about to head into the garage and bolt them on. This will be the second winter with them. No rubbing issues or clearance issues. There is a guy I know running the same set-up in winter on his C4S and his car is lowered with PSS9s; no probs there either.
I had spacers........once. I hated them! 10 more nuts to torque! I was swapping a few times a year for the track so it was not just twice a year.
Buy two more proper wheels so you can ebay rims and spacers.
Riad, I just finished torquing them. From the side you would not know they are winter. From the back.........well let's just say you will remember why you worked your ash off to buy that model!
Steve
I went for a drive this morning. The tires and fit are awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! no rubbing, suprisingly quiet, and sticky! Go for it Riad. I am waiting for it to warm up so I can wash off new tire slime on sidewalls.
Steve
I just put my winter tires on today. I was a bit worried about how much tread was left, but I am not yet down to the markers that tell you when the sticky compound is gone. This is the 4th winter on this set of Blizzaks though. I will probably leave them on a bit longer in the spring and run the tread out.
Basically though with a good set of Blizzaks, the C2 is no problem in the snow. I do try to avoid the worst days, but you never know when the weather is going to catch you.
I have an OT question and would like the opinion of Rennlisters. I'm taking delivery of my '08 S4 in around 3 weeks. Unlike my C4S, This car
will
be driven as a daily commuter. The Audis are nice cars - I've had 2 S4's in the past. Here's the issue - the car comes from the factory with summer performance tires - generally PS2s or comparable, but I really need tires that will get me through a Philly winter - which is generally pretty mild, and usually not much snow (but some). My options are buying dedicated wheels/snow tires (ie. Blizzak LM-25s), but I'm lazy and leaning toward just putting a really good set of A/S tires on the car (Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S are rated well), which I'd have installed when the car arrives. Then sell the PS2's privately. Questions: (1) am I nuts not to buy dedicated wheels/snows; (2) if I opt to go the route of replacing the factory tires with A/S, should I do all 5 (car has full spare) or just 4; and (3) am I just nuts? I'm leaning strongly toward option 2 with replacing all 5 tires. Appreciate the feedback! Flame away.
There is no such thing as a "really good A/S tire". All-seasons are a compromise at best. Just get 4 high performance winter compound tires (no need to swap the spare; waste of money) on either dedicated wheels or mount and unmount on your OE wheels every spring and fall.
Well, Blizzak 25s just went on today. Test drive was nice. Still quiet, good cornering . . . Here"s the photo . . . Great to have all the opinions and help her at Rennlist!
Phil, I'll answer question #3 first:
Yes, you ARE nuts. Period! And NO, this time I am NOT kidding!
Get an alternate set of wheels with winter tires on them and swap them. As the other Phil (pongobaz) said "All-seasons are a compromise at best." There are not great any time of the year. Your tires are the only contact with the pavement and your life, as well as the lives of your family members, are riding on your tires. Why take the chance on mediocre tires? You will probably own this car 4 or 5 years, so the initial investment in the second set of wheels will be minimal when amortized over that time period.
Tim, I knew you'd say that - you know everytime I read one of your posts, it winds up costing me $$$$. And tha'ts for both car stuff and extra psychiatric visits. As for my family members, since I'm usually the only one who rides in my cars, they'd be fine if I bought re-treads.
Glad I can help you spend your retirement money now!
"re-rtreads"
Since you mentioned your psychiatrist, how does his new 997 TT cab look? I figure, at the very least, he let you sit in it since you paid for it!
I run Dunlop M3 Wintersports on a SAAB 9-5 Aero and they are phenomenal. Quiet, great bite and great tread wear too. Got them through Tirerack.com, they're pretty great too!
I bought a CPO '03 C4 cab. in May '05 that came with the 17" C4 rims and new Michelin P/S all-seasons. Terrible tire in winter or summer IMO. Felt like I was driving a Chevy station wagon. I kept them for 1000 miles before swapping to 18" Sport Designs with Cont. ContactSports, a great wearing summer tire with OK grip but MUCH better than the Michelin.
Sadly, I learned the Dunlop M3 is no longer available in 996 sizes so I'll probably go with their new model for winter #2.
Driving a C4 in the snow is almost as much fun as...well, that's a post for a different site.
Hi all....I'm a bit confused now. I have never used a p car in the winter, but I am doing so this year with my C4S. I have techno replicas with Blizzaks mounted in the garage, ready to be swapped. I might do it tonight. Anyhow, the rears are 10" and I have the appropriate spacers that are hubcentric.
Here's my issue:
Do I bolt on the spacers separately from the wheel? I was under the impression that some people have mounted the wheels on top of the spacers and used the longer bolts without using original bolts for the spacers? I know it sounds confusing, but I haven't really looked at the setup of the wheel hub to figure it out. Figured I'd post here before I swap.
So....10 bolts per wheel, or 5? And I'm assuming that the longer bolts are for the wheel...not the spacer?
Sorry If I sound uninformed....but that's exactly what I am!
Thanks,
J
You bolt the spacers on first, torque them to 96lbs - then put the wheel on and do the same. So you actually have to do it twice for each wheel when using the spacers.
I'm kind of glad I'm getting the Pirelli's on my stock C4S rims. I now have an extra set of 18" with spacers if I need them.
Thanks Rob....glad you elaborated for me. I got the 10's in the back cuz I thought they would slice thru the snow a bit easier. I think the tire you got is fairly new for that size.... Have you experienced any damage or wear to your front lip b/c it is fairly low? I don't think I can roll if the snow is deeper than 5 or 6 inches? maybe we should organize a winter run? Haha.
Thanks,
J
Yes, the longer bolts are used to secure the wheel. The additional length of the bolts is to accommodate the thickness of the spacer. The ensures you to have the same length of bolt being screwed into the "top hat" as you originally had without the spacers.
OK...having issues now. I bolted the spacer on with the original bolts. Logically, there are no holes for the wheel to be bolted.....I'm guessing that I'm not suppose to bolt the spacer first....just bolt the spacer on at the same time I bolt the wheel? Riad....you sure on this???? makes no sense? What am I missing?
HELP! iT'S LATE OUT.
LOL
j
Props to Tim for answering my PM late night. Riad....the long bolts are used to fasten the wheel as well as the spacer at the same time. Once I got the first rear wheel off....I fastened the spacer with the original bolts. After I torked the last bolt...I thought to myself...."geez...where the heck are the other bolts going to fasten into?". I was looking at the top hat....looking at the wheel...and back and forth again...and I'm like..."WTF".
There are only 5 holes in the top hat....so the longer bolts MUST be used to fasten the wheel and the spacer at the same time. Of course I used the small screws to hold the spacer in place.
Anyhow...MORAL OF THE STORY.....DO NOT USE SEPARATE BOLTS TO FASTEN THE SPACER FIRST.
Lesson learned. Riad....what top hats do you have? You have 10 holes or something? LOL.
Thanks again Tim for agreeing with what I already knew....just nice to have an additional opinion about the 10 bolt theory?
All is well....and it's snowing tonight. For the very first time, I am somewhat excited to drive in the snow. I'm sure that will be short lived, but it's a nice sense of security to have some snows. I'll post pix of what the techno replicas look like as well as report how they feel at speed.
J
Th
OK, now I'm confused. I'll look at my spacers when I get home. My spacers may be different than yours???
I have to bolt my spacers on, then the wheels bolt on to the spacers - what mm spacer are you using???
If you're using a small spacer, say 6mm then you don't need this. I was using 25mm spacers for the rears.
This is what I put on my C4S on Friday:
295/35VR18 Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport N0 (Porsche)
for 2004 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet In Stock 2 $310.00 $620.00
235/40VR18 Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport N0 (Porsche)
for 2004 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet In Stock 2 $216.00 $432.00
Shipping Sub-Total: $36.48
Sales Tax: $0.00
Excise Tax: $0.00
State Waste Tire Fund Fee: $0.00
Order Total: $1,088.48
I drove all weekend and they are terrific. I understand that sidewalls may be slightly higher than stock which may provide higher ground clearance. This could also be a negative as it takes up more wheel well space which leaves less room for snow/ice accumulation. The tires are quite and the ride is nice given all the crap and debris on the roads up here this time of year. Thanks for the help Pongobaz!
Riad is right=thin spacers require longer lug nuts. I had the thicker ones (17mm) that you had to bolt on and torque before wheels get mounted. That was a real pain ain the ****. The C4S non hollow are heavy so you might as well mount snow tires on them and use during the time year you are less likely to try out your car's limits.
Let it snow!
Steve
I have 15 mm spacers I believe....maybe 25, can't remember. There are only 5 holes in the top hat....not sure how the extra long bolts would fasten, since they all need to be in the top hat at some point.
Here's a fresh pic with some flakes around. Ride is very very smooth and a bit softer than summer tires. Very quiet too....very comfortable. Haven't really had an opportunity to feel them in turns yet, but I'm confident that they will perform well.
best,
J
Rob, Now you really have my curiosity piqued. I believe I can envision your set up with 25mm spacers, but I'm not quite certain. A pic of your spacer mounted to the top hat (obviously without the wheel) would be great.
You're very welcome! As far as spacers go, with the stock C4S wheels you don't want to be using spacers for winter. I use 14 mm H & R spacers for the summer (with the hollow spoke wheels) to fill out the wheel wells. But I pulled those off for the winter. BTW, mine look nothing like Riad's; they just came with 14mm longer bolts.
Wow...interesting. My spacers are the H and R's above. I guess I'm confused, even with Riad's spacers, b/c there are only 5 holes in the hub. so....what do the bolts on his spacer shown connect to?
J
Take the nuts off the threads on the spacer and use them to mount the spacer to the car.
Then put the wheel onto the threads on the spacer and use your lug nuts.
Rob...guess I'm still confused....I'm OK with that I guess. But I totally see how your spacers are different.
Ben....damn strait....no garage kueen this time around....drive drive drive. My '85 is being picked up by it's new owner tomorrow. I haven't had only one car in almost 10 years...but now...it's all I need. Holla. LOL.
J
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I put my Blizzaks on last week before going in for my 90,000 mile service. Although they have 7/32" tread left (TR says you need 6/32" for the snow), I almost spun out in the wet on one of my favorite curves. I was hoping to get one more season out of them, but now I am doubtful. I have always sworn by the Blizzaks in the snow, but they don't seem to be too good in the wet anymore.
Me, too. Mine went on last Wednesday, on a decent looking set of 10 spoke 18" BSA wheels. Setup looks great and it really doesn't feel like you give much up with these tires.
My Blizak LM25 went on last week. They're overkill for this climate - the picture attached is as bad as it gets here - but you know they handle pretty good in the dry, and the taller aspect ratio (compared to my 295-30-18's) makes for a nice comfy ride.
I thought I'd hate the 17" twists on my car, but I'll be damned they don't look all that bad.
You mean "no" issues getting around ? Not at all.
You know, since I got the car in May I've been amazed at how hard it has been to get the car sideways...in rain or on the dry. It just wants to hook up and go straight whenever I apply the throttle. That's with the summer tires
So just this evening I found a parking lot covered in snow and just sort of played around trying to find out how the car behaves when pushed....I need lot's and lot's of throttle to get really going around in a circle (I think the kids call them donuts). Get off the throttle and back on again and the tires just hook up and the car goes straight. Back on a deserted road, a little opposite lock, a fair dose of throttle, and I can maintain a nice steady drift, but the basic nature of the car seems to be to get back in line.....No PSM by the way, the car doesn't have it.
Very very confidence inspiring. No drama.
My kids fit in the back great too - I'm a dyed in the wool 911 guy. Why on *earth* would anyone drive anything else?
When I had my narrow body C4 I used 17" rims with snow tires. With the C4S the 17" were definitely not working, so I went with 18" rims but I need 25mm spacers in the rear to fil lthem out.
Now Pirelli has has 240 Sports that fit perfect on the stock rims, and you really don't feel like you have winter tires on, so far I love them.
I have a set of 265/35/18 225/40/18 LM25 and look forward to having them mounted soon. We got some nasty snow in Toronto today.
Although I don't dirve my C2 in the winter when there is snow on the ground, I think it will help on those clear below 0 temp days. Like to take it out for a spin to keep the engine in check.
Same here....my Blizzaks were "tried" for the first time today. I'm am floored at the performance. Got some funny looks today....love it. No issues in the spots where the bimmer had issues. Very fun. Did some donuts in a "controlled" environment today as well....i.e...empty parking lot.
Interesting to learn how the car reacts with PSM on and off. I highly recommend it to anyone that wants to learn how to control their car a bit more when needed. Very very happy about the tires. Decent sense of security....couple that with careful driving and it's all good.
So I was the company Christmas party last night, telling folks that I had my C4S out in the snow, and how much I loved it. Every one of them looked at me like I was a loon.
Anyway, the C4S is OK in the snow with Pirelli 240s, but it's sure not the mountain goat that my X5 is - now that is a vehicle that really works well in snow.
Anyway, enjoy this shot, taken this morning.
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