Accident #2

Are you guys ready for this??!! My wife and I went to breakfast yesterday to discuss how to proceed with the wreck our son was in last Manday where his Jeep was totalled. Well, on the way home, we're at a stoplight at a major intersection in the 996 and were rear-ended by a F250!! I haven't been involved in an accident since I was 16, and now 2 in 5 days, neither my fault, thank goodness!! The Porsche is smashed Anyway, anyone know anything about Charlotte body shops? I was referred to Import Paint/Body (Loren) on Independence Blvd. Hopefully Tim's on here this morning and will read this.

Pat, Sorry to hear of your car accidents but it is good you were not hurt. I trust your son is ok too. Best wishes for your vehicle's speedy recovery. Andy T

AHH man I feel for you and your family. I hope everyone is OK, cars can be repaired, it's only money. Hope your back on the road soon!!!

Thanks! We're are counting our blessings for all involved. Anyone know how hard it is to match the paint on the Ocean Blue? I'm sure the engine lid and bumper will have to be replaced and I want them to match.

Sorry to hear about your accident. Good news is you're both OK. I haven't used them personally, but have heard good things from friends about Cosentino Hi-Lines. The number is [phone removed] or [phone removed].

WOW, that is a run of bad luck! I'm sorry to hear that. Are both you and your wife OK? How bad is the damage to the 996? Don't the bumpers on a F250 sit pretty high? I have not had the need for any body shop work in Charlotte, so I can't give you any first hand information on a body shops in the area. You might want to contact Eric (BumperPlugs) to see if he has any recommendations. Also, you might want to start a new thread on both the 996 and 997 Forums with a title something like "Need a good Body Shop in Charlotte." That will probably get you more feedback than a thread titled "Accident #2." Good luck with the body shop and keep us posted on the results.

Man, that's a lot of truck to get rear ended by. I'm glad you guys are okay!

Pat, You might ask one of the new car dealers whom thay recommend. Cars can be fixed, not always easy with people. I hope you were luck in this regard.

That's terrible news, but great that you're both OK. I haven't needed to use a body shop around here (knock on wood), but I've been told that the Import shop on Independence is the best around. I think that's where the high-end dealers send their accident cars.

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Glad to hear all is well with you and your family...and not to jinx you, but what is that saying 'things come in 3' (Now Tim is going to like this) I think it is going to be close to impossible to match the colour paint you have, best thing to do is buy Tim's car and then you would have upgraded to a Lapis Blue 996 ....JK A good body shop can do paint matching and blending so that you could not even tell, but again a good body shop, unfortunately I do not know of anyone in your area.

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That is an AWESOME idea!

Ocean Blue should not present a problem. My repair's paintwork looks really good. I second Tim's suggestion to ask Eric The Plug Guy for a shop recommendation. Good luck with the repairs!

Wow bummer! Sorry for the drama, great that everyones ok! Just a pita now!

Man that really sucks, I'm glad no one was hurt. Did the engine suffer any damage?

Ouch. Go out and buy a lottery ticket, you've used up all your bad luck for 2007.

so glad to hear that you came out of it with no personal injury. But that's one of my recurring nightmares....when I'm stopped at a light and the first thing I do is look in the mirror to see who's coming up and how fast they're going. There are times I just cringe thinking that they're not going to stop in time. I'm convinced that some folks deliberately come up fast and close on you just to mess with your mind. And you weren't just hit by another car...but an F250!! That must have looked God awful in your rear view mirror!!

the guy was probably SMS'ing while driving......glad you are okay....hope the damage wasn't too bad

I had Import Paint/Body estimate the damage yesterday. They were recommended by my Indy. and the Hendrick Porsche guys were there yesterday picking up a car, so that answers who they use. Yes, my wife said we should get a lottery ticket. Accidents are a pita for sure. I am starting to learn the drill though. What a PAIN!! Thanks for the kind words...

man, must be the time of year for accidents... Friday night, 20 yr. old son begs and pleads to take the LR3 out. I cave and say OK as long as: A. Does not take it to Dallas B. Has it back by 12:30 AM Saturday C. Does not let anyone else drive it Breaks all 3 rules and the girl he let drive it ends up totalling (I think from looking at it, adjuster will decide today) it within FIVE minutes of getting behind the wheel.. AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

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Oh crap! That's wicked bad! Was anyone hurt? Well, he broke rules "A" & "C" but you can't really blame your son for "B" because that wasn't really his fault. If the car was drivable he would have been back by 12:30! < this is the logic of a 20 year old > I know, because I have a 20 year old daughter.

Sorry to hear about your accident and gladly everyone is OK. Don't worry at all about paint match.........a qualified shop will make an absolutely perfect blend. I have Ocean Blue and I had the nose and hood repainted to clean up rock chips. The finish is perfectly matched to original paint front fenders.

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Do people with F250+ know how to SMS? Do they even know what a cellphone is? I hope the guy was apologetic. We were rear-ended once when my wife and I were in the S2000 at a freeway offramp. Some young girl in her Ford Escape rammed into us at full freeway speed. She was looking for her cellphone on the floor and didn't realize that the offramp light was red. I wanted to bitchslap her.

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Yeah, their logic is in and of itself illogical... B was not possible since they did go to Dallas (first rule broken) and the accident occurred at 12:30 AM. Dallas is 30-45 Min from the house. And they were on their way to a friends apartment in Dallas when the accident occurred... :P Other than a bruise to my sons nose (broken?) which was due to his leaning toward the center and back seat to talk to passengers there when the airbag went off, all is good. He was not <DOH!> wearing a seatbelt BTW... Other than a ringing in his right ear for a day or so from the airbag explosion, all is good. Adjuster to look today to decide if totalled or not. Even worse, it was paid off.

As a father, my biggest concern would be his disregard for you and the safety of others. (Why is he putting an inexperienced driver in the seat of a strange car, late at night? Why is he ignoring the conditions under which you lent him the car? Technically, at the point where he broke those conditions, he became a car thief.) The way it is, he can say he's sorry. You can implement punishments/restraints. These might only increase resentment and forces you to take time to monitor. Most importantly, what would he actually learn from restrictions & punishments?--other than he shouldn't get caught. You need him to be an adult. Treat him as one. Don't be mad...just treat him as a responsible adult. (rather than merely expect him to be a responsible adult) Since insurance will cover the repairs, consider billing your son for the loss of value to the LR3, any increase in insurance and any incidental costs (e.g. replacement car rental, fuel, loss of income). Don't exaggerate--but don't skimp. It's a business transaction and should cover costs that, technically, you could sue him for if he were a stranger. Have him accompany you in the process of tallying and estimating the amounts. If you go to a car dealership to get help in estimating the loss of value, make sure he comes along. Paying off the loss of value, etc., (which may be in the thousands) might give him partial insight into the consequences of his actions. Follow through. It is a loss that he created. As an adult he would be faced with these. If there needs to be a payment schedule, charge savings account interest rates on the outstanding balance. Assuming he's in college, he will probably have to get a part-time job. Tough. He will be legally signing binding contracts as an adult in (what will seem to be) moments from now. (@ 21)

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Good suggestions, many of which I had already put into play. Basically my wife and I decided that there must be punishment and acceptance of responsibility. He will not be allowed to drive any of our cars again (never let him drive the 996 to begin with) and once all is done will be responsible for any loss/deductibles. He will also be paying for his own car insurance starting his 21st b'day next March. This will keep us from getting hit with the increase in premiums (fingers crossed). Luckily the girl who was driving had insurance and it will be paying for damages to the LR3. I had him go with me to the place it was towed yesterday, took pictures, etc. He was able to see the inconvenience this is causing (drive to not so good area of town, many seed characters there, etc.). Alas he is not in college (good kid but safe to say he is not the "academic type") and does not make much $.

I think there's a special place in hell for people who tell other people how to raise their kids. (Mine are 24, 21 and 16). I'll just say this: You were a generous and trusting dad to lend him your ride. I hope that, not as a child but as man to man, he realizes that and how important it is for people who share a home to be able to count on each other's word. You're being cooler about it than I would be. Props for that.

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Generous is a good way of putting it... It was against my better judgment and my wifes suggestion as well... While there was very little yelling on my part (in my experience all it does is make things worse and the quiet voice treatment is pretty powerful in and of itself) trust me when I say that we had a very serious "Coming to Jesus" talk. At this point there are two possible things that will happen: 1. The adjuster will declare it totaled and I will then have to negotiate a settlement. 2. They decide it can be fixed, though I have the right to refuse and ask for it to be totaled if expenses are high enough to repair. We are considering if it is totaled to take away the 2007 Honda Accord Coupe he is driving, buy a beater for him (something like a 2002-2003 Toyota Tacoma). That way if he takes care of it fine, if not that is fine too. I will then drive the Accord as a DD. In either case 1 or 2 we will most likely file suit against the girl who was driving for any out of pocket expenses, increases in insurance premiums and loss of value. In Texas the coverage for the car being driven follows the driver so her insurance is going to pay for the LR3 BUT coverage for other damaged vehicles (she rear ended a Mercedes G-Wagon (YIKES!) which then went into the rear of a Nissan something or other. No idea on the damage to the other two vehicles.

A little OT, but in my experience Land Rovers are tough trucks. Their reliability may be suspect, but they do well in a crash. My wife was hit pretty hard while she was waiting at a red light, but escaped injury and the truck had relatively modest damage. Meanwhile, the Camry and driver that hit her did not fare nearly as well. The insurance adjuster claimed he had seen other Rovers do remarkably well in collisions.

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Two things about that... Older, ladder framed Rovers were tanks. The new unibody ones might not deserve that reputation. And he hit a G-wagen. They are freakin' solid trucks.

You are a seriously understanding father and I commend you on that. Fortunately, my kids are 18 months and 1 month old, so I have about 15 years to worry about this kind of stuff. When I think back to how I drove my parents cars when I was a young'un, I did some stupid things and got away with most (but not all) of them. Very glad to hear that injuries were avoided, and hopefully your son will be more careful (obedient?) in the future.

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Man, you're going to "punish" him by taking away his '07 Accord and give him an '02 Tacoma? Will you be my dad? The best thing my parents ever did for me was make me buy my own car after I wrecked theirs when I was 19. I bought a Ford Ranger for $12,500 and my monthly payments were $281. The reason I remember that is probably part of what helped me grow up.

Yup, no son of mine would be driving my cars after breaking the rules. Calling an '02 Tacoma a beater is a bit of a stretch. Make him buy his own car - in the meantime let him understand the inconvenience he has caused by being without wheels. I just don't get parents that wrap their kids in cotton wool and "let them experience reality" by taking away a brand new car and giving them a replacement that is no kick in the teeth. Pur-leeese! ...and people wonder why kids have no sense of reality and self responsibility! Well, congratulations, you reap the seeds that you sow.

All I know is when it comes to parenthood, it's easier to give advice than to be in your shoes. I used to look at parents and say "why don't they do better to control their children". Now I say "so I have that problem to look forward to". Parenting is tough. I know how I want to deal with my step-children, and it's not always the same as I do with my child. And in either case, I'm less understanding than my parents were. I do know my mom made me pay my way and I'm a firm believer in that. I know when I was in college, so many kids were there on their parents dime, so many viewed it as 4 more years before I have to decide what I'm going to do with my life. As for me? It was a financial decision to go to college from the start...going in debt now for a bigger payout vs. making money now and hanging with my friends. This made such a positive impact on me later on that is what I try do think of when I'm making decisions as a parent. That still doesn't make it any easier, though. Good luck!!

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responding to the above and the post that followed... Easier said than done. He is a great kid but not of the highest IQ (severe dyslexia). He does have a full time job but it only pays around $800 a month. After paying his own gas, food, etc. not much left over for a vehicle. As compared to his older brother who is 23 in last year of college. Older brother pays all of his own bills and I mean all of them while going to school. We pay for school/books but that is it. Send him some money every now and then but not much. If we did as you say and took the Accord away and said that he would have to buy his own car he could nto afford it, which would mean he moves back home and then how would he get to work? Tough situation..

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You don't owe anybody here an explanation. Anybody who's actually raised kids knows that there's no manual and every situation is unique. Anybody who's actually raised kids and made some money along the way knows that it's a constant moral struggle between the fact that you can afford to help and the variable that it's not always going to be the right thing to do. And anybody who's actually raised kids to adulthood knows that you don't stop caring about them when they become 'adults'. Sorry about your truck. I hope things get resolved for you quickly.

Bruce P. +1+ It's easy to give advice, but hard when your heart's involved. If my mother had taken some of the advice she got when raising me, I wouldn't be where I am today. She raised 3, and we're ALL different, and we've all been our on special challenge. There ain't no manual to raising children...at least not one that answers all these tough questions.

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More often than not, there is usually "more to the story" than initially disclosed and here is another example. That is why I don't get on my "soap box" too much when it comes to situations like this. Since I haven't walked in your shoes, I don't think I should criticize you for handling a situation a certain way. All any of us can do is try to instill in our children a certain set of "values and morals." Those "values and morals" will be different in each family, because we call look at life through our own eyes, not anyone else's eyes. We can try to give them guidance and direction, but untimately they still make their own decisions as they get older. We do the best we can, and unfortunatley, as parents we make mistakes along the way, just as our children do. I wish you and your family the best in getting through this situation. Hopefully, it will be a learning situation for your son so he can and will avoid similar situations in the future.

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Agreed 100%. Enstill the values and everything else will work out fine.

Back to my original posts. Now I have to deal with 4 insurance companies (at least), theirs and mine, 2 auto body shops, several doctors...Man! Well, at least: On one seriously hurt Not my fault-although talking to the insurance companies, you would think so. All initiators were insured. It's gonna be a helluva ride. And to think, when I was wrecked in a race on the track, a couple of angry red faces followed by a couple of hand shakes, and all was well...Ah the simple life

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Hope all turns out well. Luckily it sounds like they are all different carriers. Had a situation once where both had the same company. They actually filed suit against themselves in order to assign blame so BOTH drivers would have to pay a deductible!

Pat, Sorry to hear about your accident. and your son's of course. I would ask Wayne(chief mech) at Euroclassics who he would recommend. Not sure if you know him. Good man. He has genuine passion for porsches as a mechanic! Hope everything sorts out in your favor. Mike

OK Got a call from the insurer of the truck that hit my Porsche. I'm to meet with them today. It's Nationwide and their policy is to have someone estimate the damage and hand me a check. I've never heard of this. I thought you took it to an approved shop and the shop and insurer worked it out, unless totalled, of course. My questions are: 1) Anyone deal with Nationwide before? Did you find them fair? 2) I've already received a quote from the shop I want to de the work. What if this estimate is less? Can I refuse the quote? Is there a chance the body shop may work with me? It's been my experience that all shops pretty much give the same estimate, using samilar software I would imagine is approved by the insurance adjusters. Am I correct in that assumption? Should i show them the quote I've already received?

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Keep your cards (your quote) close to your vest. Wait until they give you their quote before you consider showing them your quote. Ask them what happens if the repair shop finds some additional items needing replacement once the repair process begins. Will they cover those items, too? Ask what the procedure for that is. If they will cover the additional charge, make sure the release document has that provision in it. Make sure you read the release document completely before you sign it or any document they give you. Before you sign anything, it might not be a bad idea to take it home and read it so you can note any questions you have. Yes, it will necessitate a second trip to their office to sign the document, but it could save you a lot of time and aggravation later on.

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Keep your cards (your quote) close to your vest. Wait until they give you their quote before you consider showing them your quote. Ask them what happens if the repair shop finds some additional items needing replacement once the repair process begins. Will they cover those items, too? Ask what the procedure for that is. If they will cover the additional charge, make sure the release document has that provision in it. Make sure you read the release document completely before you sign it or any document they give you. Before you sign anything, it might not be a bad idea to take it home and read it so you can note any questions you have. Yes, it will necessitate a second trip to their office to sign the document, but it could save you a lot of time and aggravation later on. BTW - do you have any pics of the P-car damage?

And until you are absolutely sure do not endorse/cash the check they give you. Some companies consider that acceptance and payment in full. If you then find more damage - tough

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That is really well said Bruce. Good stuff from the fellow Canadian. I don't have any children (yet), but I have 3 siblings and I know that though we all had the same parents, each of us got treated a differently depending on the situation and our maturity.

Thanks Tim, I do have pictures but haven't had a chance to download. Hopefully tomorrow...

Thought you guys might want to hear a quick update, in case your car should suffer my car's fate. Met with Nationwide yesterday and I must say, I'm pretty happy so far. Guy looked at the car and gave me a check for 80% of the estimate I already had. He told me to take it to whomever I wanted to fix it and they would work with the body shop for the balance. He said he fully expected it to go higher and that would be no problem. I called the body shop to verify and they said this was standard practice. I guess if I wanted just to cash the check and forget about fixing, I would not be so happy, but this way is OK with me. He said as soon as i turn the car in, I get a rental. So far, so good.

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Good to hear. With your two accidents, your family will soon have it's own rental fleet! Your neighbors will he jealous!

Yes! I'll leave with a Porsche and come home in a Kia!! At least that's one thing coming off the "to do list".

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Well, at least your KIA will be temporary. After I sell the Porsche, I could end up having one permanently! :

I hope things change for you PRIOR to the sale of the 996. I think you were meant to be in a Porsche! Heck, I had to downsize to a 944 for a couple of years. It just HAD to be a Porsche!!

I have a 12 year old......hope by the time he is 18 there will be a very slow, very strong, computerized car that drives itself to where I tell it to and back, without accidents!

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On the other hand, manufacturers will keep upping the HP in the cars in this crazy HP-wars market! You might a Civic with 300hp as an "entry level" car.

You should probably read up on "diminished value"... All the insurers will claim 'this isn't covered", but the owner of the F250 owes you any loss you suffered, including Diminished Value (if there is any)...even if his insurance company says they wont. Your insurance will also lie to you and tell you "no" since they all desperately want to not ever have to pay it. GL A

Thanks Adam...I'll definitely be checking that out. Tim....I forgot my camera to download pics of the damage I will promise to upload tomorrow.

good to hear your accident is getting taken care of... As for mine where my son let his date drive our LR3; they called Friday and are totaling it... Initially offered $33.3k, missed some options and it is now up to $34,625. They use NADA for their valuation, am going to visit with him today to get them to use KBB values (almost $37k) and then get them to add in registration/taxes. Fingers crossed. Have found a few close by with the options we want for around $34k so should come out pretty well.

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I think this classified ad might be what you are looking for. . . For sale. 1 previous owner. Well maintained. Bulletproof, turbo, voice recognition (British Accent) and lots of other mods too numerous to list. Some limited off road use. Includes 1 black Members Only jacket. Call M. Knight 1-800-HSSLHFF.

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Man, it's one thing for the "newbies" not to post pics, but for someone who has been here since May?

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... and it has a hidden compartment to hold the booze!

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LOL!!

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Wrong car, you're thinking of this car... For Sale. '69 Charger. Orange w/ some tasteful decals. 440 V8. Glasspack exhaust. Suspension rebuilt (a lot). Doors welded shut. Some limited time in flight. Environmentally friendly, runs on up to 85% moonshine. Contact B. & L. Duke 1-800-HAZZARD.

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That's only going to keep happening for only so long. Remember the muscle cars of the early 70s? Crude oil's trading at $92.70 per barrel, up 39% this year alone. Gas prices at the pump aren't likely to stay this far behind for too long. Anyone who commutes over 20 miles will all be driving Civics soon.

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No it's not the wrong car! Didn't you see the video of David Hasselhoff that his daughter shot while he was eating a sandwich on the floor? He was so drunk he couldn't sit up straight. See the link below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82-FJyniP7A Do you still think I was referring to the wrong car?

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Now I get it, I never saw that video, heh, heh, heh Does anyone remember what the hell was this thread originally about?

I do!! Someone in an F250 deciding to literally kiss my car's butt... to the tune of about 3 grand. AND my never ending ability to forget to get my @#%*ing camera to download pics for all to see (hope Tim doesn't read this post).

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What in the !@#$%^& is (*&^%$#@! wrong with your @$^*&%#! head Pat? You are making me bring out the big guns! Oh wait, I just remembered you live in SOUTH Carolina, so I'll cut you a little slack!

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What can I say? Guilty as charged. Hey, I least I picked a good color for a 996

Finally got the pics. Only 2 showed up...very poor photographer Well, the light WAS bad. Estimate was right at $3000.

A couple of "interesting" comments from the parts estimate: The entire deck lid can be replaced for the price of the right tail light lens cover! Rear bumper was $1,000!!!

Pat - it's a good thing he was not going any faster when he hit you. Interesting about the deck lid versus tail light cost comparison. BTW - Thanks for the pics. I just know that the "big guns" would get the pics posted!

Talked to the body shop and she should be ready tomorrow! I mean, the Dodge rental has been a real blast but... I'm ready to have to ole 996 back. She'll have the rear bumper and decklid repaired plus I had them replace/repair the front bumper from normal wear and tear for a 72,000 mile car and go around the entire car removing rock damage and scratches. From what I've heard, this guy's really good so I can't wait to get her back. I had just taken the clutch spring out so i haven't even hardly tried out that mod yet. More news to follow...

Pat, Sorry I am only reading this threat now, but I will be interested to know your thoughts on Loren and the repair. I used Import for accident damage to my M3 when a woman decided to plant the trailer hitch of her pickup into my deck lid and bumper (actually it was worse (or better?) - it was the piece just below the taillights which cannot be replaced - easily). Loren was great - the repair was great - and the paint was great - hard to match Carbon Black. Import is one of the ONLY shops using German paint - that's the key. The other shop I strongly recommend is Cosentino Hi-Lines, located Uptown. Their specialty is restoration.

I'll post some piocs when I get it back. The b4's are already here. I had a similar accident as the front bumper of an F250 got my rear deck lid. I've heard nothing but good about Loren so I'm excited to get it back.