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YOUR RESEARCHChanging Brake Pads-How not to do it.
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Replace brake pads
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Suggestion · Original poster
So I wait until the night before the CMP track event to change brake pads on my C4S, which I've never done before.
Leading evidence: 'Replace brake pads' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'original brake pads' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean precious metals' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I've changed pads on numerous other cars, even with Brembos, so I figure no big deal.
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Suspected cause · Original poster
The front pads were "Jurid" branded, the rears were "Brembo" branded - and I believe that these were probably the original brake pads that came with the car - 2002 C4S, which I bought with 13900 miles.
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Suggestion
Some say he lives in a tree and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals...
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Suggestion
I am so glad that I decided to let my shop change the brake pads....I would have had to cry (almost) myself to sleep and would have been arrested for excessive curshing!
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original brake pads
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Suspected cause · Original poster
The front pads were "Jurid" branded, the rears were "Brembo" branded - and I believe that these were probably the original brake pads that came with the car - 2002 C4S, which I bought with 13900 miles.
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Nice one smackboy1 - I was singing the song in my head as I read that, and it worked great lol
So I wait until the night before the CMP track event to change brake pads on my C4S, which I've never done before. I've changed pads on numerous other cars, even with Brembos, so I figure no big deal.
An hour and a half later, after struggling to get the pads out of the first caliper, the first pad releases with help of a big screwdriver and some leverage. But there's torn metal on some strange looking round discs attached to the outside of the pad. Not a great time to find out that there are some stupid vibration dampers in there, and now the pieces that ripped off are stuck inside the pistons of the caliper.
I've never seen anything like these on any brake pad I've ever changed, and certainly didn't expect them to be in there.
In all my searches for 996 brake pad changes, I haven't found a single mention of these darn things.
So, off comes the caliper, which I know is normally not required. Second pad comes out easily now. I get 2 of the 3 broken pieces out of the pistons, but the third is stubborn. I try a screwdriver, a magnet, a bent coat hanger - it won't budge. So I try the worst option - go press the brake pedal, and maybe it will push out - this should not have been in my list of options. Piston falls out of caliper, fresh superblue fluid dripping all over the floor.
So now I have to completely disconnect the caliper from the lines - and my old set of brake line wrenches doesn't have a 10mm.
Time for the channel locks, as my regular wrenches are doing a dandy job of rounding off the corners of the nut for the line to the back of the caliper.
After a good 10 minutes of struggle, it finally comes off. Now what? A quick drive to my local indy shop and we get the piston back in, and nothing looks damaged. Dust shield won't re-seat, so in the garbage it goes - not that I need it anyway.
Tonight is going to be a long night getting the caliper back on, bleeding the brakes thoroughly, and then back to the original plan of changing pads. In total, this should only take about 6 hours when complete. If all goes well, I'll be on the track tomorrow, and all will be right with the world. Right?
Oh dear God, why didn't you ask for help first?!?!?!?!? I coldn't tell you how many guys I have done brakes for in my garage (or walked them through it on the phone) for their first time. It is so simple it isn't funny but if you don't know what you are doing, a 30 minute pad change turns into a nightmare as you have experienced. Hope everything gets all back together properly and you have a great weekend
Doesn't go without saying that once it is all back together go test out your brakes in a place that you have some space (high school parking lot, mall after hours, etc.) and then get back home and make sure eveything is still "where it should be" for safe measure.
If you get stuck, we are here to help........
Thanks - I've done brake jobs on other cars many times. Just never saw these stupid antirattle/antivibration things that looked like this before.
I was able to get help locally and get the job done right, but I was really dreading what might have happened...
Thanks you, I can't get that freakin' song out of my head now. 867-5309 everybody sing along now!
Dell Dell who can I turn to
you can help me fix my brake pads pronto
now you think I'm like the others before
who saw you name and number on the board
Dell I got your number
I need your help this time
Dell don't change your number
867-5309, 867-5309, 867-5309, 867-5309
Dell Dell you're the man for me
you can help me, make my brake job so easy
I tried to call you before but I lost the nerve
I tried to do it myself but I was confused
Dell I got your number
I need you on the line
Dell don't change your number
867-5309, 867-5309, 867-5309, 867-5309
I got it, I got it, I got your number on the board
I got it, I got it, for a help line, for a help line call
Dell don't change your number
I need your help this time
Dell I need your voice on the line
867-5309, 867-5309, 867-5309, 867-5309
Dell Dell who can I turn to (867-5309)
for the price of a dime I can save myself the pain of f@cking up my brakes and cursing out those POS vibration dampers and wasting 6 hours of my time and getting brake fluid all over the floor and ...
[with apologies to Tommy Tutone]
I've three 4 - 2 - 0; it was actually meant for Dell; he's done tons of brake pad changes but is a freshly baked dad.
Btw, thanks that you post you experience; for me it's part of the Rennlist culture that we post positive and negative stuff; might help someone - somewhen. This shouldn't become a place for posers only: "Hey look at my cool 20' rims".
We struggled through my buddy's Wilwoods before we changed my pads. It took us a couple of hours on his but only 20 minutes on my Brembo's it was both of our first times oh high performance brakes.
Shuster, I feel your pain. I hope the rest of the job went smoothly for you.
I am going to do a brake pad change on my 2000 C2 for the first time this winter. I have done pad changes on other cars in the past but never on a P-car. I have read the Renntech.org write-up(great instructions by Loren BTW) and I was under the impression that the anti-vibration damping pads on my car were simply the rubber adhesive pads which stick to the back of the brake pads backing plate. I assumed that you simply pry, with a putty knife, the dampers from the brake pad backing plate. Obviously, Shuster's anti-vibration pads were the type which have round metal protrusions which fit into the caliper pistons.
Does anyone know for sure what type of anti-vibration dampers my car came with from the factory? The simple rubber adhesive type or the ones with the metal protrusions which fit into the caliper pistons. What is the proper way to remove each type? In other words, how do you seperate the dampers from the brake pads?
TIA for any help.
WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE!!!!!!!
I step away from my computer for a day and all creative hell breaks loose!
Smack.....that is one great set of lyrics. I "played" them for my wife and we both laughed hysterically. Way to put a smile on our face
Thank you, thank you very much! You've been a great audience!
Heh, heh, heh. Dell, this could be your official theme song. Anybody who is anybody has their own official theme song e.g.
The President of the United States
Darth Vader
Jerry Seinfeld
John Shaft
Can you dig it?
Does this mean I have to retire my original theme song, Return of the Mack by Mark Morrison?
I have to admit, Darth does have one of the best theme's ever! The death march pretty much kicks anybody's ***.
I just changed my brake pads (2002 C2). Went smooth...real smooth. I had forewarning of the anti-vib dampers from the parts guy at the indy shop. He sold me a full set. When I took it all apart though, the old ones were servicable, so I re-used them. I sanded off the old glue residue, and then applied some permatex anti-squeel goop (blue spray on stuff). No squeeks, nice straight stops.
I agree though, if the parts guy hadn't have told me about the parts. I wouldn't have known about them. In hindsight I probably should have spread a thin layer of anti-sieze compound on the cylindrcal part which fits into the pistons though. Three years frm now I am guessing I'll be struggling to get the old one out.
Does anyone know who the Stig really is?
I knew he was obviously an excellent driver, and this was confirmed when I saw an episode that showed the Formula 1 vs Stig challenge board. Apparantly they occasionaly have Formula1 drivers come on and try to beat the Stig's time on their test course in their economy test car. The Stig obviously knows the track better then them, but still he was a few tenths quicker than the fastest challenger. I think Damon Hill got the closest.
Heh, I copied these from Wikipedia:
(Yes, yes, I know this is a major hijack.)
Some say he never blinks, and that he roams around the woods at night foraging for wolves... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he's wanted by the CIA, and that he sleeps upside down like a bat... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he appears on high value stamps in Sweden, and that he can catch fish with his tongue... we know him only, as the Stig.
Some say he's illegal in 17 U.S. states, and he blinks this way [motioning his fingers in a horizontal fashion]... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his breath smells of magnesium, and that he's scared of bells... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he naturally faces magnetic North and that all of his legs are hydraulic... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he lives in a tree and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his voice can only be heard by cats, and that he has two sets of knees... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he's terrified of ducks, and that there's an airport in Russia named after him... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his skin has the texture of a dolphin's, and that wherever you are in the world, if you tune your radio to 88.4, you can actually hear his thoughts... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he has no understanding of clouds, and that his earwax tastes like Turkish delight... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his politics are terrifying, and that he once punched a horse to the ground... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his tears are adhesive, and that if he caught fire, he'd burn for a thousand days... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he can swim seven lengths under water, and he has webbed buttocks... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his heart is in upside down, and that his teeth glow in the dark... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his ears aren't exactly where you'd expect them to be, and that once, preposterously, he had an affair with John Prescott... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he has a digital face, and that if he felt like it, he could fire Alan Sugar... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his genitals are on upside down, and that if he could be bothered, he could crack the Da Vinci Code in 43 seconds... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his ears have a paisley lining, and he's been banned from the Chelsea Flower Show... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say the outline of his left nipple is exactly the same shape as the N�rburgring, and that if you give him a really important job to do, he'll skive off and play croquet... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he invented Branston pickle, and that if you insult his mother, he will head-butt you in the chest... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say that on really warm days, he sheds his skin like a snake, and that for some reason, he's allergic to the Dutch... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his first name really is "The," and that if he went on Celebrity Love Island, they'd all be pregnant, including the cameramen... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he once threw a microwave oven at a tramp, and long before anyone else, he realized that Jade Goody was a racist pig-faced waste of blood and organs... [the audience applauds wildly and Jeremy pauses for a short moment]... [laughing] all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he once had a vicious knife fight with Anthea Turner, and that he is in no way implicated in the Cash for Honours scandal... all we know is, he's called Lord Stig!
Some say he's a CIA experiment gone wrong, and that he only eats cheese... all we know is, he's not the Stig, but he is the Stig's American cousin!
Some say that if you lick his chest, it tastes exactly the same as Piccalilli, and that at this week's Brit Awards, he was arrested for goosing Russell Brand... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he sucks the moisture from ducks, and that his crash helmet is modelled on Britney Spears' head... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he isn't machine washable, and that all his potted plants are called Steve... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say his ******* has its own small gravity field, and that because our producer rigged a phone vote, he now has a new name... all we know is, he's called Cuddles. [This is a reference to the news that the BBC was in the middle of a ban on phone votes and competitions at the time of broadcast.]
Some say he's banned from the town of Chichester and that in a recent late-night deal, he bought a slightly dented white Fiat Uno from the Duke of Edinburgh... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
Some say he's seen the Lion King one thousand, seven hundred and eighty times and that his second best friend is a Cape Buffalo... all we know is, he's not the Stig, but he is the Stig's African cousin!
You must be referring to the Stig's American cousin, Big Stig. Some say he is a CIA experiment that went wrong and that he only eats cheese . . . He's not running anywhere. Looks like he's had one (or ten) too many fried pork sandwiches.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jc3sXJ5OBWU
Sorry Dell,
My money is on "The Stig"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bniXQ77NY1A
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Tw0CXFDu5I
http://youtube.com/watch?v=09SePaZm2EA
Does anyone know for sure what type of anti-vibration dampers my car came with from the factory? The simple rubber adhesive type or the ones with the metal protrusions which fit into the caliper pistons. What is the proper way to remove each type? In other words, how do you seperate the dampers from the brake pads?
TIA for any help.[/QUOTE]
Below is a link to see what they look like but you don�t have to use them, I don�t and my brakes don�t squeal.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/..._pg3.htm#item7
I am so glad that I decided to let my shop change the brake pads....I would have had to cry (almost) myself to sleep and would have been arrested for excessive curshing!
The fronts and the rears are different. The fronts are rectangular shaped with two solid aluminum protrusions. The rears are circular discs with small basket type protrusions.
When I did mine, the brake pads were no longer attached to the dampers, so they came out seperately, like normal. I then took a thin screwdriver and prised the dampers away from the pistons. It was really easy. I could see that it may be a bit more difficult if the solids protrusions became corroded onto the inside of the cylinder, but you just have to keep levering them with teh screwdriver. There is no other way.
If you need a picture of what they look like I can take one later this morning. I have a complete set I never put on my wife's car when I replaced her brake pads. Not needed IMO.
The first Stig was Perry Mcarthy (Audi Le Mans driver, one outing in F1). But he lost the the job when his identity became public knowledge. This Stig has been in place 2 years and his identity remains a secret.
i cringed reading about your experience. but hey i guess this is part of the joy of car ownership?
just curious, how critical is this vibration dampener and why is it not common other cars?
My indy mechanic who helped me get the job done on Friday night told me that he sees these things all the time now. His method: small pry bar and a rag over the caliper so you don't scratch the heck out of the paint on the caliper.... When done right, there is a n audible "POP" of the adhesive snapping. The pads then come right out and the discs with the metal protrusion will then fall out of the caliper.
The front pads were "Jurid" branded, the rears were "Brembo" branded - and I believe that these were probably the original brake pads that came with the car - 2002 C4S, which I bought with 13900 miles.
Thanks to Nick at Euroworks for the assist - my brakes worked flawlessly all weekend at CMP!!!
Every new car has something you've probably never seen before.
I imagine that Porsche put these in to stop the whining about brakes squealing every so often.
It would have been more clear by stating that the vibration dampers (the plates on the back of the pads, from my experience on other cars) have metal protrusions that stick into the pistons (from my experience, not on other cars), which might make them impossible to remove without forcing the pad out or removing the caliper.
I'm not saying that Loren hasn't done a good job with the article, but from the picture I thought the metal pieces were the pistons themselves, not attached to the plate. If nobody else posts pics of the dampers I can do it tommorrow.
I'm glad there are people like Loren who do their best to help DIY'ers like me - thanks Loren and Renntech, and of course to the Rennlist community, which is why I paid for my membership - lots of great info.
Pics of the vibration dampers - Front have solid metal cylinders on a "rubberized" plate that has been popped off the pad. Rear have the basket style protrusions. You can see that one stayed on (after I took the caliper off), one tore off. They are mounted with adhesive on the small round discs to the back of the pad.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
