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YOUR RESEARCHWhich one would you buy, 996 or BMW?
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Replace under factory warranty.]
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i have more peace of mind/faith in the reliability of the S54 engine than the M96 3.4 liter engine esp if the latter is not a remanufactured engine originally replaced under factory warranty.]
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I test drove a few of the new Mercedes C350s and saw my C2 sitting on the show room floor, test drove it and bought it.
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If you are around drag racing, you know that acceleration is always better in a turbo car is you use an automatic.
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Also I would always pick the Porsche over the M3, used M3 examples I've checked out here in the states tend to be "beat on" significantly more than a used 996 of similar vintage.
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Replace under factory warranty.]
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i have more peace of mind/faith in the reliability of the S54 engine than the M96 3.4 liter engine esp if the latter is not a remanufactured engine originally replaced under factory warranty.]
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Also I would always pick the Porsche over the M3, used M3 examples I've checked out here in the states tend to be "beat on" significantly more than a used 996 of similar vintage.
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I'm looking for a new car and my money is good for:
- 98 996 C2 tip
- 01 M3 smg
- 03 3.30cab steptronic
I know it's a porsche forum so the answers will be biased but still....... I'm leaning towards the 3.30cab step (and maybe a supercharger kit after some time) because it is the latest model out of the three, easier and cheaper for parts, service and mods plus more room at the back for kids and bigger boot for kids' stuff. I love M3's but hard to find clean ones in my area and smg is not as comfortable as a real auto transmission. The devil on my right shoulder keeps telling me a porsche is a porsche, bmw will never have the class and performance of a porsche. However everything comes at a cost and from what I've read in this forum so far 996 is not the most reliable thing out there. What would you buy (power, performance, class, reliability, convenience etc.)?
Your post stikes me as being from someone who must view the costs carefully. A 98 996 (99 was the first year in the states, you must be elsewhere) is pretty darn old at this point. If a Porsche breaks, it will be costly to repair. The 330 is much newer and more practical. Buy the BMW. Buy a Porsche when the kids are older and you can have some fun without the financial stress. It is very much worth the wait.
^^^
costs carefully
, yet they want to add a S/C to whatever they buy it seems.
MatKap why are you so into wanting to S/C whatever car you buy ??? Unless the car is an american made V8 the cost to S/C other cars is outrageous.
So out of the 3 go with the newest but none of them would be on my list
Hmmm, where do I start...... First of all the cost is important (obviously, otherwise i'd buy brand new) but only one of the deciding factors and not necessarily the main one (as long as the car I buy is reliable) because the price of the used cars I mentioned around 50-60k euros (70k - 85k usd) in my country, don't ask how much brand new you'll have a heart attack lol. So it is not like I am trying to count $1-2k here.
Why must I have s/c on whatever I buy? I don't have to and I've never owned a supercharged car before. However I have owned turbo cars and many motorbikes before and all have been modified in one way or another, I like to ride and drive reasonably powerful and customised machines. I don't like to keep my rides stock.
It is just that, they don't have many sporty turbo cars anymore and s/c seems to be the reasonably reliable form of forced induction for cars like porsche, bmw, 350z etc. I hope I explained myself better now.
The reliability and cost move in opposition to each other quite rapidly if an aftermarket SC kit is installed in a less than perfect manner by less than expert techs. I wouldn't shy away from the Porsche simply because of it's age. If it has a reasonable amount of mileage (not too, much but not too little too) and all the maintenance history is up to date, it has proven itself to then be a very reliable car worthy of serious consideration.
In the end, you need to drive them all.
good luck
Huh? If the first-year 996 breaks down, how is it going to cost any more than if an '04 breaks down? It's the same stuff underneath, and it'll cost mostly the same to repair.
Personally, as he's looking at the almost identical list of cars that I and an AWFUL freakin' lot of other posters probably considered, I don't know why anyone in here would tell him not to buy the 996.
Why is everyone's answer to this question remarkably different than the answers provided when someone asks if the 996 is a reliable car? Or am I reading the wrong posts or something, because it sure seems like everyone considers the 996 to be a rather reliable car.
i have more peace of mind/faith in the reliability of the S54 engine than the M96 3.4 liter engine esp if the latter is not a remanufactured engine originally replaced under factory warranty.]
sure the people who know enough just to sound dangerous are going to speak of the rod bearing failures... it is much less pervasive in the bmw case than the porsche case. s54 engine rocks.
with that said, the biggest reason is tiptronic is a joke. just call it an automatic just like your SUV that your soccer mom's drive to get their latte 12mpg style. smg is the real deal, but then i would tell this guy to just get a manual 911.
It is reliable. For what it is. But this guy is obviously not in a position to live comfortably with the cost of maintaining a Porsche, or the possibility - however remote - of an engine failure. BMW is the Honda of prestige marques. You can sleep nights with one in your driveway, even if money is tight. A 996 is stupendously reliable for a semi-exotic car, but I don't personally feel that you can enjoy owning one if you fear things going wrong. It may be a Porsche, but you still have to be able to shrug like an Italian at the possibility, or it's not worth it.
How many miles on the C2? The cost of my aftermarket warranty was based on miles and not age. With under 30K, you can get a 5 year/100K warranty around $3,000 - give or take a bit. If you are really worried about maintenance, you should really look into an aftermarket warranty.
If you are interested in one, do a search, as there have been a dozen threads on them.
-td
I have to agree with this. Any tip sux! Why even look into 996 if you are going to buy a tip? If you don't know how to drive a manual, SMG is awesome! If it was me, I like my clutch.
I've never owned an automatic car before, this will be my first. It will be my daily driver and we have heavy traffic here, so I don't want to kill my left leg all week just to enjoy the rides on Sundays.
Because it still has 300hp, still has an engine at the back, still has the same suspension as the manual, and still is a porsche. SMG is not as comfortable as an auto, hopefully SMG III will be much improved but it'll be a long wait to the day I can afford one.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I am comfortable with the cost of maintaining and servicing a porsche, but I won't be comfortable with fixing a 996 and waiting for absurd parts for a porsche, especially considering the limited time I have left after work hours. Having said all this I don't expect Honda NSX or Toyota Supra kind of reliability from a 996 either, I gotta be honest with myself.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I am comfortable with the cost of maintaining and servicing a porsche,
How can you be comfortable with an unknown maintenance cost when you state that cost is important? Any used car and especially a used high peformance German car can easily become the most expensive car that you have ever owned.
but I won't be comfortable with fixing a 996 and waiting for absurd parts for a porsche, especially considering the limited time I have left after work hours.
I think that you answered your own question. Buy a BMW.
Hey Tip-bashers:
It sure doesn't suck in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Or when my wife needs to borrow my car. Or when I've got a coffee in one hand.
Go play with your shift ****.
Point taken. I meant maintaining as in keeping it in good condition by having it serviced regularly and changing the required parts listed in the owners manual not the unknown future problems or failures.
I had my eye on a M individual purple 3.30cab with light grey interior maybe it's time to go check it out.
I would rather have a tip than an SMG unless I was going to track and auto-x the car more than I planned to drive it on the street. I drove several SMG M3's back when they came out, as I was shocked by how choppy and unpleasant the shifting was in the first example I tested. I would never buy an SMG if I planned to carry family members or business colleagues in it. I haven't driven any of the later SMG variants, but we are talking about an 01 so all this applies. Also I would always pick the Porsche over the M3, used M3 examples I've checked out here in the states tend to be "beat on" significantly more than a used 996 of similar vintage. I won't comment on what this says about buyer demographics
The 3rd car on your list is completely different from the rest and really something you should pick based on your needs.
i would go for the 996, reliablity in general, those cars are not too diff. from each other.
it's far more importent to research the specific car you want to buy, does it has any documentation? PPI, etc.
i don't know where you are. but look around to see what your p-car dealer rate is, and any local auto shop service porsche?
here in new jersey, owning a porsche is easier because there are so many dealers and local shops to choose from, completion is very high, in fact, the porsche dealership rate ($100-$10 porshce owner club discount) is lower than a toyota dealer($100), so it's relative to how much support you can get in your place.
i don't personally own any BMW, but from what i heard, the cost is not that much cheaper on their, let along super charger them.
good luck on your search.
If you are looking for a comfortable car, maybe a benz?
As for the same car...the exact same car next to you with the same 300hp with an engine in the back will out perform the tip.
I have always thought its funny to see a sports car in an auto.
sorry no matter how many ways yous guys try to slice it, tiptronic is an absolute poor choice for the 911 let alone any sports car/gt coupe.
quit being a pu$$y and use that left leg to work that clutch. it's like hooking up with charlize theron but you choose to tell her it's gotta be with clothes on. absurd.
Ask Hurley Haywood what he thinks about the Tip. I will tell you. He loves it and so do I. So, that's five Daytona's and two LeMons wins. Oh, that was Hurley, not me.
I am just saying that it's not absolute. The driver can make a difference. Read these:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/911.htm
http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/index.php?id=3530
"It can do zero-to-60 in 3.7 seconds with the six-speed manual transmission or 3.4 with the five-speed Tiptronic automatic, which is faster because there's no human error in banging through the gears."
I am not saying that I am right, i am saying that I read.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3010524AANDSSR
I am only talking about Porsche autos/Tip's
Paul
997TT Tiptronic is faster than the manual. I would personally still get a manual in a car like this, but if you drive in heavy traffic alot or have to take "other drivers" into consideration I can see purchasing a Tip.
In term of reliability you should go for a bmw 330ci. I've owned (2) 2002 330s one of them went 120k (sold) without a single issue and a second one is 40k now. What made me buy a 2 330s? because they did not give me problems.
Jim
I didn't want a tip....bought one because of the wife....and now after about 2 years.....I'll take a tip anytime....let me be a ***** (coming from you benjamin it is a compliment..wouldn't want to change to your manlyness if you gave me a billion!!)...If I put my foot down my P goes fast enough. I just wish porsche would smarten up and gave real paddle shifters!! can't be that difficult I saw a commercial where a freakin Japanese car had them...was a altima or Q something (sorry can't keep them apart)
Pretty soon we will all be driving hybrids on corn....see how much fun that is.
Everyone has different needs, driving an auto has nothing to do with being a pu$$y. If you're not using the car for trackdays then I don't see how the manual is that cruicial. One can always look down on others if they don't understand where they are coming from. A tip is an absolute poor choice for 911 and 911 C2 is an absolute poor choice for a porsche (coming from gt3 owner), street driving a gt3 is an absolute poor choice (coming from Peter Fitzgerald) etc. etc....................... Like I said before we all have different needs and in some cases a tip might be the best choice for a 911.
The only way a 997tt tip is faster than the manual is to thoroughly abuse the transmission by loading the torque converter for a fast launch. Not really a great idea in my book, even if it is faster.
Just to be clear, I think anyone who says that an auto in this car is heresy is wrong. Not everyone here is interested in squeezing the last ounce of performance out of the car, especially acceleration. If that is your only measure of a car, you bought the wrong car. I don't have an auto because I think a manual is more fun. Others don't agree. That does not make them fools.
I do find it slightly amusing, however, that some folks who think that a slushbox is a travesty are the same ones loading their cars up with weighty bling. Hey, if you�re that serious about it, why don't you rip that heavy air conditioning out? Real men can take the heat. Think what it would do for your weight distribution!
As for the OP, you are kidding yourself if you think a 10 year car won't break. Plus you are looking at the very first year of production for a very different model. As great a car as it is, it will have problems. They will cost money to fix. A SMG box is a very poor choice outside of a track. An auto in a 3 series is pretty normal and okay. Personally, I would keep looking for a car with a manual, but that is just me.
Wrong.
Although I have never weighed the converter or clutch and flywheels of these cars, in general, a torque converter/flexplate combo weighs less than a pressure plate/disk/manual flywheel.
Correct,
it has a lot to do with keeping the boost up the whole time. If you are around drag racing, you know that acceleration is always better in a turbo car is you use an automatic.
Ben,
No matter how many times people try to engage you civilly, you always drag it down. Once again, you take the board
ad hominem
.
I don't know how you manage to succeed in your career with that attitude. Maybe you're just charmed.
CP
I'd buy the Porsche. The BMW is probably faster but really is just a sedan.
The Porsche is so much more inspiring and the mods you can do to make it look even better is amazing.
Sure you can mod a BMW up and it can be shinny as hell but it still looks like the neighbor's Honda accord or any other sedan.
If your considering the convertible, you should just get a 996 cab.
Eh, the old "traffic" argument gets tiring. I consider traffic to be part of driving, just like shifting.
Also, I'm not ashamed to say that my girlfriend can handle my 996's six-speed with the best of them.
Lastly, I'm not the kind of guy that tools around in my Porsche sipping a latte. YMMV.
Yeah, I can't believe how many people seem to be trying to talk the original poster OUT of buying a 996. I say "go for it", as he's asking about the same cars I considered before buying my 996.
Now, every time I see a 330i (or even an M3), I shake my head when I remember that I almost bought one. It would have been a nice car, but there's no comparison to my 996.
On a serious note, to the original poster, I went from an S2000 to the 911. I've had luxury sedans before and thought about the M3, everyone has an M3 and everyone has a BMW in Austin. The Porsche definitely sets you apart from those in looks. You never see a 996, maybe a boxster every now and then but never a 911. I love it.
I test drove a few of the new Mercedes C350s and saw my C2 sitting on the show room floor, test drove it and bought it. My next car will be another Porsche, that's all I have to say. What an incredibly impressive car. It is smooth, quiet, fast and LOOKS great in my opinion. If you're not married like me get the Porsche dawg. As far as tip...I don't know about that, never driven tip, I just know my style is more manual shift than tip manual or auto.
It kind of reminds me of when I first got my old Supra back in the day.
i know you guys like to wrap yourselves around this 911 cocoon when it comes to the E46 M3 and i'm betting the same sort of elitisim will be applied even with the kick **** v8 M3, but it's really not that clear of a win esp when considering a 996 carrera.
the e46 m3 is a smooth ride that does a lot of things well. sure at the end of the day i'd pick the porsche 911 no question, but then if it was a 1999-2001 996 stock body and typical options, i would pick the m3.
hardly pedestrian
just assume that im a trust fund baby and i act like a punk all day everyday to everybody - that should save you some time in your life trying to figure me out.
in all seriousness, i'm actually a respectful person raised in a loving stable family who values time with friends and family far and above anything else in life and yes that includes this piece of metal/plastic/rubber bits called a car aka 911 which i recognize to be a luxury toy and nothing more.
i don't take this stuff seriously and i do enjoy getting a rise out of those that do.
as the owner of a 996 99C4 and an 02 E46M3...both are great cars, provided you get the right one. If you are looking at cost and are concerned abour reliability and cost of mantainence...as much as I hate saying it, don't buy either one.
While I personally have not had any issues with either car, I have seen a very high number of cars that do when it comes to both of these cars.
If price is really not a worry...then get what YOU want.
i had the '04 M3 with all the latest updates along with a bunch of choice mods and the only thing that went wrong was that the power steering pump failed. all covered under the solid BMW warranty, though. otherwise, excellent car, great engine, very smooth commuter. pretty mediocre manual tranny feel compared to my ssk 996, braking on the street is superb, but the brakes are ugly and the pedal feel is not on par with the 996 c4s. engine noise is blah though i know a lot of auto writers both in the UK and US who love the inline 6 s54. exhaust noise is unique (i had larini). clutch feel sux compared to my c4s. looks wise, i like the way a stock M3 looks way better than any stock 996. i like the way a 996 looks done up with wheels, aero than an m3 with wheels (m3 doesn't need a body kit - maybe the csl bits then perfect).
the porsche kills the m3 in the driving dept sensory dept. my 911's steering, stick shift, and clutch feel is where i instantly knew damn ok i get it and then just hearing the pse roar is me beginning to enter exotic sounds territory though i really wont' get there until i get that prancing horse from modena. another pleasant bonus is the 911 fraternity regardless of how many rennlisters seem to have a certain popular disdain for me.
i wave to all 911 drivers locally and it's great fun. m3.... i couldn't care less.
i'd tell this dude actually to save up some more bread and get an '02+ with better scenario being a 997 C4S full aerokit, fully loaded up interior - beautiful, fast enough, exquisite. for me, imma pass all that and head straight to Fehrahrhee.
That makes you an ***, which is unfortunate, because you certainly have the capacity to make a positive contribution to the board.
You just usually don't.
If you don't mind the in-out-in-out-in-out of the clutch in traffic, it doesn't make a difference for you. I have a manual BMW and when I'm in traffic I always wish it were an auto.
It's nice that your wife can drive a standard. Mine can't.
As for the "latte," I think you're typecasting. A, I said "coffee" and B, I don't think I'm any "type of guy" related to my car - I am who I am, my car is my car, and it does not define who I am.
Like it or not, in this country, your car actually DOES define part of who you are, and it's naive to say that it doesn't. Show up at a Sierra Club meeting in a yellow Hummer and get back to me.
Well said, but he DOES take this !@#$ seriously. He just can't help acting the way he does.
I disagree that he doesn't contribute tho, you just have to be willing to weed through all the immature and inappropriate comments and simply remember he's just Ben, he can't help himself!!!
Eh, that's just semantics. The point is that one's car absolutely DOES tell the rest of society something about them, i.e. it "defines" us to a certain extent. Whether those definitions are true is another story...for example, some guys say that I'm gay because I own a Miata or that I'm rich because I own a Porsche. Neither happen to be true.
For the record, I don't care what kind of transmission anybody else has in their car--I specifically chose a manual and recognize that with regards to Porsches, it's more "acceptable" to own a manual than an automatic, just like a 996 automatic seems more "acceptable" than a 993 automatic. I recognize that it's as arbitrary as the people that will only wave at people that drive certain models of Porsche and not others. Hell, I chose a 6-speed for resale as much as anything else--feel free to make jokes...
Hey, I don't make the rules, I just play the game.
I'm not beginning to sound like anyone but myself. Whatever issues you're having with Ben are of no concern to me.
My commute is about 9 kilometers. Less than 6 miles. It routinely takes more than half an hour, any time between 7:30AM and 10AM.
I don't drive a tip, but I would certainly not begrudge anybody getting one whose Porsche is a daily driver like mine.
I don't begrudge them either, but I'm also not shocked when people make jokes about the Tip. I mean, this is Porsche-land, and it's probably been like this since Porsche made their first automatic car.
I have both. My 70 Mustang fastback with a 4 Speed. When I shopped for my 911, I wanted a car I could drive all the time in any traffic conditions. I wanted the Tip. I have no regrets. Like I said before, get what you want for your own reasons. I am very happy.
Paul
It's not semantics. How I'm perceived is not how I am. But I think you're ignoring something about this forum. We are not the public at large, with their responses to Porsches (or yellow Hummers). We are Porschephiles. Within the group, it is especially true that the car does not define the person.
Well, I misunderstood then. I thought you did, based on your latte comment.
Not what I meant. I meant you're both being insulting. I do not hold you responsible for his blather.
I'm not being insulting. I'm pointing out that people--even Porschephiles (
especially
Porschephiles?)--tend to make jokes about sports cars with automatic transmissions.
If you're truly unaware of this phenomenon, I'm sorry that I'm the one that had to break it to you, but it's not like I singlehandedly decided this.
No, I understand that. As I wrote the other day in a Tip thread, I've gotten used to people thinking I'm a girl. That doesn't mean I like to hear it from people who ought to know better.
seeeeeu91 you are the ultimate in un-manliness-hood-something
....a tip and a BMW auto....can you say *****!!
Oeps I think I have the same combo
..but wait.....it is all my wifes fault
..she can't drive stick.....
And I ain't no Schumacher and when I am sipping on my LATTE yes I said it.....I love to have my other hand free to SMS people.....no extra hand to shift to the next gear...who wants to touch that stick anyways....it is soooo Yesterday.
And honestly: I never wanted automatics or tips or whatever else ...but it has grown on me since I came to the States about 10 years ago.
Nicolaas...baby anyone whose name ends in aas should not call anyone names :.. just kidding
I dont mind being called a ***** ! ***** is my most favorite thing in the world
Actually most any manly mans fav location to visit too, except possibly for the very closely geographically located backdoor
i'm with you on tip/auto reality.. like you said, with all the things we need to do while driving..who needs a stick in a commute ? Now for me no auto on my focused track car.. or sportbike.. but for my dd tip is fine.
I am going to get banned for this link.. here is what a car stick is best used for ...
http://youporn.com/watch/40811
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
