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YOUR RESEARCHMy FSI 4.0L review
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Fill first 1/3 of the 2022 calendar
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After having two Webinars we have already filled the first 1/3 of the 2022 calendar.
Leading evidence: 'Fill first 1/3 of the 2022 calendar' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'best all around' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check nearest bmw cca chapter' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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We tossed away the factory X51 heads, and fitted the engine with my superior R51 CNC ported heads, and the engine picked up a ton of power everywhere.
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And as far as racing season, friend ran a 996.1 in Spec 996 series with an unbuilt motor and had a winning car.
Run across this and it answers my basic question as
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I just ran across this and it answers my basic question as to how this is possible.
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Suggestion
I'm using a 50 year old engine design to do it, but it shares the rings, and ring pack with the M9X, and I can rip the cylinders off each side of the engine in 17 minutes, to inspect components, or make a change.
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If you go to the LN Engineering site they no longer post or recommend anyone in NJ to install the IMS solution but they do recommend a shop in Allentown, PA........eminence has one job, and anything else is a liability and there are no exceptions for being special or challenged.
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I purchased my 2002 C4S last Nov for an insanely good price after selling my 1999 C2 w/aero 9 months earlier and missing not having a 911. Even though the car was in great shape mechanically, having an FSI built engine had always appealed to me. The C4S is one of the sexiest 911 variants in my mind and I thought this could be my �forever car�. Getting the car for such a good deal kinda justified my decision to reach out to FSI.
I emailed Jake almost immediately after getting my C4S and as luck would have it, another customer had backed out from their engine purchase and a spot became available for a July drop off/Oct completion date. I have to say that FSI was nothing but professional and one of the most organized outfits I�ve ever dealt with. Most of my communication was with Jud, and he is the best. A genuinely great guy. He kept me fully informed during the build process.
I live in the Bay Area so drove the car 350 miles down to LA to Tony Callas� shop where they pulled the engine and shipped it to FSI. Callas Rennsport were also great to deal with and they kept me fully informed of the removal and installation process. When I picked up the car they just happened to have two 959s in for service and a 1972 911T, production model #1, valued at $7-$10 million! Quite incredible.
I took PCH from LA back to SF and the car behaved impeccably. I resisted the urge to get on it too much but did give it a good run through the rev range on the drive home. I changed out the Castrol GTX break in oil the next day for some Driven GP-1 that Callas supplied me with.
The engine came with a break in tune from FSI and as soon as I crossed the 1,500 mile mark I uploaded the �91 Oct Agreesive� tune into the car. FSI supplies you with the tuner box and has you pick 4 or 5 different tunes depending on how you�ll be driving the car.
Even though the original engine always felt very strong (much torquier than the 3.4L in my old 1999), there is a noticeable bump in the midrange with the new FSI 4.0L. I also have to say the new motor is VERY smooth throughout the rev range. It effortlessly revs to 7k. As I rack up the miles I�m looking forward to the engine getting better and better. Again, I was most impressed by FSI�s commitment to keeping true to their promised timelines and the whole process was completed with zero hiccups. I�ve included some pics of the build as well as a link to a vid of the car ripping around Lake Berryessa here in NorCal last weekend. Sure does sound healthy. I put the GoPro on my buddies C4S toward the end of the vid and you can hear the difference. He�s running a PSE on his 2004. Sounds a little deeper than my Fisters.
You Tube
Great write up! Thanks for taking the time. One detail that caught my attention is you made special mention of Jud & the high quality of customer service. People like to quote FSI prices but rarely do we consider all that comes with it. The level of detail that these guys are willing to provide to 100% of their clients is fantastic.
Enjoy the car in most excellent health!
Nice write up! As you mentioned, the engine will get better with age/miles - I can vouch for this, as I�ve got almost 15k on mine (3.8 stage II) and it continues to impress. Good luck with it👍
Jud is top notch. He's been great with communication even a year after delivery and I couldn't be happier with the build. Bash - if you ever feel like tearing around the roads of West Marin, ping me.
They have their �premium� program where they work with a few select shops to do the removal and install. I chose Callas due to their reputation. FSI handles the shipping to and from. Easy process.
Now, you now have a unique, special car... or could I say a "forever Porsche" like WildBilly and his C4S. Hope you'll post more images and stories about your experience with this new engine... we all could learn from you.
Cheers!
@Bash Hat
Thank you for the review, and kind words. You were also very easy to work with, and we appreciate that a ton.
Being able to maintain our scheduled completions in the days of Covid19 takes a lot more effort, and forward thinking compared to years past. At the onset of this virus crap my team had to make some critical decisions, and work hard to ensure our parts supply would not be compromised. I ended up using the virus to our advantage in most every way, and hope we can continue to.
To those wondering about the "Premier" program. I have 32 Certified Installers for our engines. We build a maximum of 12 of these "Premium" engines per year, using the Certified Installers to facilitate removal, and replacement of the engine. This is a service usually chosen by those who do not want to ship their car cross country, or internationally. Callas Rennsport is the only California based Certified Installer.
Your video sounds good. Glad to see you progress quickly through the "neutered" break in tune, and advance into the real fun.
I will let Jud know that you guys are bragging on him.
Will do B3. Just got back from putting another 200 fun miles on it!!
When you�re spending not insignificant sums of money on something you love, it�s very reassuring to deal with quality companies such as FSI and Callas. Really makes the whole process that much better.
A �quick� 200 mile run to pick up my to go order.
What a great post! Can’t wait till I’m in the market to buy from FSI. And so thankful he’s chosen to apply his talents to our passion. When I read one of his posts I take it as gospel.
Thanks.
I love building engines, and developing products for them. I hate business, so I have gone overboard to ensure we have the best program in the World- so I don't have BS and disappointment to deal with. It works well, even though most would say that it isn't necessary or it's "overkill".
Every year the program changes. Our next webinar for the 2021 program (supporting 2022 deliveries of completed engines) will be this Thursday, 17 December @8:00 eastern time via Zoom. These webinars are making engine sales more informative than ever. Submit a ticket at
www.flat6innovations.com
to request an invitation to the Webinar.
This engine was not a Track Performer. It enjoys ARP rod bolts, cryogenically enhanced, stress relieved connecting rods that have been magnaflux tested, and upgraded lighter pistons. The lighter pistons are the biggest benefit the OE rods can see. You will note the odd color of these rods, which comes from the Cryo work.
Forged H Beam rods are not an option for this engine, by design. If Bash Hat would have gone to the next level of performance, H beam rods would have been a standard inclusion, as the application, compression ratio,(over 13:1 static) and performance increase would have demanded them.
As you watch the video posted, understand that this engine is a Stage 1, my entry level to a performance M9X.
Tony and I have been working together, instructing Porsche technical classes for over a decade. He is exceptional all the way around. He has installed a ton of our engines, and none have ever had a single fault.
I've always appreciated that Jake explains WHY he does what he does to engines, as opposed to just WHAT he puts in them. To my mind the WHY is always at least as (if not more) important than the WHAT... Of course, he doesn't tell us everything (that would be silly, as that's his competitive advantage) but he's extremely generous with tons of great/important information. The explanation of the stock (yet cryogenically enhanced) connecting rods was perfect! Thanks Jake
Congrats on the new street performer Bash Hat!
I to received mine in early October. I remember the second day talking with Jud and he explained that he wanted me to drive it hard up and down the valley I live in. He specifically stated "You may not be ready for how quickly it climbs the rev range". He was not kidding.. second and third fly by and then you are in dangerous speed territory.. I am very thankful that they have someone like Jud because I am not mechanically inclined and he is extremely patient with explaining things to me. Getting the car running for the first time with Jake on the phone is an experience I will never forget.
I wish I lived somewhere with nice weather all year because the snow and salt kicked the car off the road just over a week ago. I cannot wait for spring.
Lastly, those are some lovely sounding cars in your video. I wish my car sounded like either of those haha.
No, only Juan.. He has attended my classes, and earned his invitation to my program. He is by far the leader in the Canadian market. We love working with him.
@Mark Murphy
Thank you. Wait till you see the development we are doing today, and how we are going to share what are learning with SUMEbore cylinder technology.
I remember getting mine back last December...I was leaving town the next morning for a couple of weeks (family holidays in Colorado) and *ALL* I could think about was driving it when I got back to NorCal...it was like a second Christmas! When I really got on it coming down the back side of Mt. Tamalpais, the power hit so hard, I thought the front end was coming unglued. Needless to say, I needed to relearn how to drive it with the new power band in the twistys....
Jud is THE MAN. He was and continues to be super helpful and readily available.
Becoming a Certified Installer isn't easy. It starts with a trip to my hands on classes, and then if I'm impressed, I offer someone the chance to further prove themself.
The installer has every chance to screw my business forever with just one installation, so I keep my thumb on their pulse, and kick them out of the program if they make only one mistake. No second chances. No excuses. No explanations are accepted.
So far in Alberta, "that guy" hasn't existed.
No, the Stage I is not built fro any activity that requires the driver to wear a helmet.
You'd need a Stage II. Submit a ticket to join in the month's sales Webinar, to gain more details. We have 56 people signed yup for it now, and can fit a few more.
I missed this earlier..
Yes, Jud is great! He makes my life a lot easier, and all the customers love him. All of my people have been here for years, and I try my best to make this a great place for them to work. Usually if someone can take my first 3 weeks of pure hell after they are hired, they stay around for years. In the last two decades I have had one employee quit their job here, and that's because he was a better fabricator than wrench turner, and wanted to open his own fab shop.
I push everyone to communicate, communicate, communicate... I want every purchaser knowing where their project is at all times, and if a significant change occurs, I want them contacted immediately,. and brought up to speed.
Finding people in NJ is difficult, with plenty of shops but questionable detail practices. If you go to the LN Engineering site they no longer post or recommend anyone in NJ to install the IMS solution but they do recommend a shop in Allentown, PA........eminence has one job, and anything else is a liability and there are no exceptions for being special or challenged.
So I sell my car, find an extra $35k and buy a GT3. Or spend $30k+ on a FSI 4.0? Other than collector value, tub and suspension , a brand new FSI 4.0 sounds like the better value for a car that is going to be driven spiritedly for next 5-10yrs. Hmmmmm.....
So the problem I worry about is the fact that the 996 motor is not ideal for ripping around the track and beating on. There is a history of these things even after being built coming apart......does anyone have experience running FSI motor in the track for years? I really want to do this with my 996.....they�re such a great platform
There are specific FSI track builds, not street performers, that Jake would recommend for heavy track use. You are correct, though: while many people track their stock 996s and have no trouble, it�s a risky proposition without oil and cooling mods, many of which require invasive disassembly of the engine to do it right.
That said, most non-race cars would have similar problems. And racing and tracking can get expensive real fast, so most hard-core folks don�t complain about multiple engine rebuilds or spending tens and tens of thousands on repairs and maintenance.
Where would we classify those that like an occasional track day? We are not talking about dedicated track monsters that get trailered in with slicks but doing 2-3 track days a year as a fun weekend. Would it still be not recommended with an FSI engine? Maybe add a deep sump for good measure? With so much engineering going into these things and addressing all major points of failure, especially installing UAOS, I have a hard time understanding why not. I get the point of a track build but I doubt that would be a minority.
Open a ticket with Flat 6 Innovations and ask for the webinar with all the build details.
He explains your answer in detail.
Psst, you'll want the Street and Track Performer package.
Cool - why? And even if I want to do 2-3 track days as well? I'm not chasing track records or any competition events and banging off the rev limiter on every possibility. I'm just out on a track to enjoy my car in a way that is simply not possible or safe on the street. Keep in mind I'm 100% ok with all needed maintenance pre and post track day, like fresh oil and brake fluid flush and pads.
Open a ticket with Flat 6 Innovations and ask for the webinar with all the build details.
Jake explains your answer in detail.
I could paraphrase it here, but why not get it from Jake himself.
If you're truly interested in one of his engines, then you don't want my opinion, you want his.
If you're just wondering just because, then the answer is because Jake said so.(and backed up his reasons as the engine builder)
The webinar is free.
^^^ For Track Days/DE/ Autocross, that would be at the very least a
"Stage II Track Performer"
engine (anything you're required to wear a helmet for). Full track use would require a
Stage III Track performer
. FSI recently unveiled their "R" Engine program which seems to include both larger displacements as well as more custom options than the Stage II engine - and a red painted block with black highlights... As suggested above, call and speak with Jake for a full explanation...
My expectations would be that a proper Porsche should have no problems seeing 5-6 track days a year to enjoy the car for what it�s meant to do. A full race season is much different than a car driven to the track......tracked......and then driven home. That�s the model I�m looking for and was hopeful to do with the 996. Once you feel the need move to Hoosier tires I can see that these expectations become outlandish🤣.
But at $30k I would fully expect a PROPERLY maintained weekend racer like my expectations above to last many many years without issue. Anybody here who has done this with an M96 build from anyone? Any builder or shop able to show success and history with this kind of use?
$30K what?
Engine? Yeah, probably so.
Open a ticket with Flat 6 Innovations and get in line.
$30 car? Maybe...but there is always some risk involved, but if the engine doesn't survive I know someone who can rebuild it for you.^^^
This. Thank you. At the end of the day, the 996 is still a sports car and I have a hard time understanding why it shouldn't be able to handle a few track visits over the course of a year. Again, I'm not saying that proper measures shouldn't be taken, pre and post track day, but the whole idea that a 911 with a built motor can't be driven how it was meant to is a bit silly, especially when all common failure modes have been addressed. What's the point of owning one then if I can't enjoy it and need a track version for my occasional track visit.
@zbomb
has a track built 996 with the stock motor + some improvements. Maybe he can chime in. He does have a YouTube channel that goes into his experiences tracking a 996.
Are people really that scared? LOL. They should get a Honda that is infinitely more reliable on and off the track, has superior metallurgy and available with cheap parts. Engines re $2k and are competitive in terms of fun per dollar and even speed.
I can't believe people think that they need to build out a motor for track. I did 160k miles with about 8-10 track days per year for 13 years! And it was my frequent street car and I commuted to work in it. The motor finally gave up the ghost on the entrance to the esses at Buttonwillow. I broke in the motor and car on the way up to Laguna Seca. Yes, I did a much more frequent maintenance schedule over the years but in the 163k miles before the motor quit, I did 4 clutches, no flywheels, no alternators, 1 AOS (stock), no transmissions, a boatload of R compound tires and lord knows how many brake pads and brake fluid. Oil was 0w40 too. Just changes before and after track events.
Go have fun. It's just a car. It's not a Ferrari garage queen.
And as far as racing season, friend ran a 996.1 in Spec 996 series with an unbuilt motor and had a winning car. It's the luck of the draw, but that's any car. Enjoy the money you spent on it instead of living in fear.
I have been chatting with him a bit regarding what he�s done and am so appreciative of his videos and channel. Gave me some great info the other day. He is one of the reasons I went with the 996. Great guy.....hope he does add to this thread. That being said, it does make me a bit skeptical when I hear about builds that you can�t take to the track at all.
I attended the recent Webinar......still left with questions and the tough part is the wait. Says something when there�s a wait like that though. I agree with that part.
Yup, great channel for sure and enjoy his content. I suspect that a standard street performer FSI build is more than up to the task for an occasional track visit, especially with a baffles and a deep oil sump. I also understand that you can't control what someone does with an engine and it's simply for liability reasons that the statement is there, not because the engine is not capable. If you need slicks and are building a stripped out race car out of a 996, then sure get the track performer motor if you're getting one built.
If they're cool I don't see why not! I was a technical support for a buddy at a track day and the PCA club was running with an Integra, FRS and a Lambo!
The key to success is high expectations, but the key to happiness is low expectations.
A �proper� Porsche for track use is a GT or Cup car. Sorry, the rest are street cars.
Can you take your street car on the track and have absolutely no problems whatsoever? Of course.
Can you take your street car to the track and destroy it? Happens to at least 1 person every time I�ve been to the track. Maybe it�s 1 out of 100 cars, but it happens.
The best advice I�ve ever heard from track rats is �if you cannot afford to just walk away from your car, then you might reconsider tracking it.�
I have a properly maintained 996 and see oil pressure drops in sweeping right handed turns, such as turn 9/10 at Road America. And that�s on all season tires!
Race cars blow up engines all the time - it's just part of the sport. If you can't afford to re-build or replace your engine then don't take it to the track. It doesn't really matter what kind of build you have, if you "race it" it will eventually break/blow up...it's just a fact you have to live with, and you never know when it's going to happen, but it will happen eventually be it by human error or by mechanical fatigue...
Thanks for the kind words dudes...
I'm not going to get deep into my thoughts on "can a motor be used for XXXX" in this thread. I'm happy the OP got a motor he's happy with and when users share their experiences, everyone wins - especially on something as costly as a motor for one of these cars... ****, the motor the OP bought 100% cost more than I paid for my car - by a lot. It would be nice for someone contemplating a motor build to have this resource to pull from.
Any motor can be used at the track and any motor can blow up on the track be it a Mezgar, lowly M96 or an LS, built or stock... that's just the way it is. Take care of the equipment and you'll be best positioned to have it take care of you.
I spent $9000 in 1989($20,000+ in 2020 dollars) on a built race engine for my GT3 VW Scirocco.
At a race in Big Spring TX in 1990, I had a catastrophic failure.
Here's what was left of the EXTREMELY expensive Bertil Roos($1800 in 2020 dollars) camshaft:
I keep this camshaft hanging in my garage to remind me what can happen on track to built race engines.
The crank and expensive rods were junk.
The head was trashed as well.
I sold the car as a roller several months later.
The track can be tough on ANY engine!
My "Stocker" and "Stage I" engines were never developed for track work. That includes ANY activity that requires the driver to wear a helmet to protect his head. If the driver needs additional protection, so does the engine.
I have had people track Stage I engines even though I told them that the engine was not designed for the application. The same thing goes for Stocker engines, since these were never designed with the track in mind when I developed them.
I build the engine for the application, and that includes the strength of the components, and not just the power. As we make more power the things that influence the engine on the track mean more. As the Stage I engine has gotten stronger in terms of output, we have had to change the design and components to retain the durability for the street.
So No... A Stage I engine should not go to the track, even occasionally. Why? It lacks the preparation to do so. As the designer of the combination, I state this with confidence.
And this is why the price paid for the c ar is absolutely irrelevant in terms of purchasing the engine. It can't be a consideration for someone who wants what we create. If I am talking to someone and they even hint at a KBB value or say "but I only paid xxx for the car" I immediately give up, and know that they won't be a purchaser. I tell them that, and if the car has suffered an engine failure, I urge them to sell the car as it is, in a broken state. If they put in a used engine, or buy some cheap excuse for a "rebuild" they'll just waste their money.
The decision is based on love... Not "like"... The car has to be loved for what we do to be appreciated.
FYI- We filled all of 2021 slots by October of 2020 and stopped taking orders to focus on the 2021season, supporting 2022 completions of engines. After having two Webinars we have already filled the first 1/3 of the 2022 calendar.
THAT day would have been better at the office!
But yes, normally a bad day at the track is better than a good day at the office.
I just don't get the attitude above about not wanting to follow Jake's advice about which of HIS engines to track.
Any engine can blow at the track, a stock one or an expensive race built one.
But when the engine builder says, I'd recommend THIS one for occasional track days, why are people ignoring the engine builder and pointing to cost to say which should be used?
Cost doesn't tell you $#^!.
The engine builder with decades of experience knows what's best!
I have LOTS of experience working on cars, and have built many engines in my day, some of them were dedicated race engines for my cars and others. (My job at one time(1980s) was as a race engine assembler for an SCCA Pro Racing team)
But I defer to Jake's advice and I believe in my experience, you should too!
Want to track your stock engine, go ahead.
Want to track Jake's stock engine, go ahead.
IF/When it goes boom, direct your complaints to...yourself!
Amen! However, flipping a 360 sprint car is not as good as being at the office. At least I didn't have to call my boss on Monday and request recovery time off. He would not have been happy...
If your local PCA is not open to it, check your nearest BMW CCA chapter. BMW CCA is open to all marques. Note - only some chapters accept convertibles - not that should apply to the mentioned Honda.
-Tom
BMW CCA Club Racer
ex Chief Instructor BMW CCA
still in car Instructor BMW CCA
And before anyone says "Jake just wants you to build a Stage II because he makes more money"....
That's not the case. Our most profitable engine is a Stocker, followed by a Stage I. The Stage II is the least profitable, and takes the most time.
The only thing that takes more time is an R Series, and the pricing on R Series is now at 47K+
Those things said, going to the track is a risky way to have fun. You might come back with nothing left of the car, you might come back with a blown engine, or you might not come back alive. That's the risks that you take.
If I win the lottery (doubtful since I never play) I'm going to buy an R series!
Unfortunately I'll probably have to "settle" for a Stage II.
I think the Stage II is the best deal, and that's what I'm leaning towards.
If you haven't seen an R series, you really should look at it.
It's true automotive artwork!
Check it out here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/183942-808bill.html
The Stage II is probably the best all around for most people. I'm not taking on any more R Series, I have a full plate of them through 2022 at this time.
"
Those things said, going to the track is a risky way to have fun. You might come back with nothing left of the car, you might come back with a blown engine, or you might not come back alive. That's the risks that you take."
+1 ^^^
This thread kinda went off on a tangent, albeit a cool one. I�ll add my $0.02 since A: it�s my thread (J/K) and B: the tangent has gone off the rails on two things I love. Track days and 911s. I do 5-6 track days/weekends a year, but they�ve all been on my BMW S1000rr. Last one was Buttonwillow in Oct. the 1st 2 sessions were a bust because of folks going all max wrist on cold tires/cold early morning tarmac. At least 8 folks (including one in our group) trashed their bikes. Other than that it was a blast. My bike spent 80% of its time between 10-14k rpm.
I also love my FSI 4.0L, but I have zero intention of taking it to the track. Why? Cuz it�s not designed for it. I�m all about the spirited wine country canyon drives but I�ll still see the oil pressure drop on fast right handers.
I can�t imagine doing 135mph on the big sweeping right handers at Buttonwillow or Big Willow at Willow Springs. Those curves last for days. I ain�t rolling the dice with my 996. Bikes are waaaay cheaper to fix than Pcars.
I've kinda thought the same thing...but with a Miata.
It's no where as fast as a 996, but it doesn't cost that much to repair or replace.
Crash my 996, and I'm going to be very sad.
Crash an old Miata, and I'd just buy another one and swap parts.
Boxsters are almost the same replacement cost wise, but not engine wise.
I'm too old to fall off a bike.
I'm with Tex; I'm way too old to step off of one of those 130mph+!
B-lls the size of cantaloupes is what that takes. Have fun just be careful.
[QUOTE=Bash Hat;17113060]Always better to keep the rubber side down.
/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=wildbilly32;17113393]I'm with Tex; I'm way too old to step off of one of those 130mph+!
B-lls the size of cantaloupes is what that takes. Have fun just be careful.
Or maybe brains the size of a peanut....🤷. In all honesty, these track days are very well managed with a big focus on safety. As long as you remember not to try to attempt any dumb sh*te, it�s a fun and safe way to spend the weekend.
@dynosoar1
You need to talk to
@ltusler
He's had my engine since 2008, when he snapped a crankshaft in half with his factory X51 engine.. There's many others, too.
Other than buying CA real estate over the last coupe decades, this is probably the most I've spent on one single item in my life. But the funny thing is, in all the phone calls & emails I had with Jud and FSI, I never once felt like the topic of conversation was ever about money. It felt to me every communication was about keeping me in the loop on the build process, the quality, attention to detail & making good on the delivery timeline promise. Greed is certainly a word I would have never thought to use.
I had a terrific experience with FSI. When I contacted them, they took the time to understand what I wanted.
They delivered.
I cannot wrap my mind around people that criticize a premium service
that delivers
for a fair cost. People, when you hire an expert in a field, the compensation is usually commiserate with the results. Would you take less than you are worth for your work? FSI gave me a price for extensive work that gave me
vastly
improved performance and peace of mind regarding known fault issues with the M96 engine, to which, I agreed. If you think they are overcharging, you are welcome to do the work yourself, though I doubt the results will come close to the final product that those of us who've worked with FSI have received.
The choices are: Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two. I'm an experienced wrench, but I know my limitations and I chose to go with who and what I believed to be my best option for what I wanted. I elected to trust a group who would do what I wanted that was Good and Fast with vastly more experience with the specifics of the project. Sure, I might be a fanboy of FSI, but it's because they delivered on what I wanted; great service and products should be promoted by satisfied customers.
^ This. Plus, you're not just paying for the Nickies, pistons, Solution and labor to install. I imagine you're paying for the countless hours/years of research, learning, development & trial and error that FSI has gone through to get to the product that is going in your car.
2020 has sucked in many ways, for most everyone. We have been blessed with the best year on record here at Flat 6 in so many ways. We have had the best group of loyal, understanding, and determined purchasers ever. We have been able to deliver on- time in 48 out of 49 of our annually scheduled jobs, missing one delivery date due to a camshaft hold up related to COVID19. The last vehicle we had to finish for 2020 left today, and will be delivered on- time. Some say this is luck, but I think that we make our own luck through dedication, determination, preparation, and communication. Couple that with prayers, and we end up where we are today.
You guys are really making my year with your posts. I am grateful for your kind words, and so glad that what we have met your expectations. I hate issues with humans, so that's one reason why we do things in the manner that we do.. I'd rather have an engine explode, as to deal with a disappointed customer.
I tell people that they are buying pieces of hundreds of engines when they pay me... Not just one... Not just theirs.
We continue to push the envelope.. its after midnight and I'm preparing for tomorrow's SUMEBore cylinder tests, as we work to optimize the ring packs for our most popular bore sizes. I'm using a 50 year old engine design to do it, but it shares the rings, and ring pack with the M9X, and I can rip the cylinders off each side of the engine in 17 minutes, to inspect components, or make a change. Ready for round 3 after a ring change, and altered ring tensions on 2 of the 4 cylinders.
Life in the test cell...
Surface finish is everything!
Yikes.....no bueno! Thanks for the contact....always good to hear about others experiences. Which engine did he go with from you? Is he using it in the same capacity as the factory X51?
It was built in 2008 to a 4.0 that at the time was light years behind where we are now. Back then the car was a full blown DE car, and during the period of a couple years he swapped it to a full competition car.
After about 4 years and 200 track hours the AOS failed and I got to update the engine to a 2013-2014 Spec 4.0 Stage II. We tossed away the factory X51 heads, and fitted the engine with my superior R51 CNC ported heads, and the engine picked up a ton of power everywhere. Since then it has been another happily ever after story.
The factory X51 doesn't;t impress me. Its pretty good if you don't have the means to improve upon it. I choose to smash it.
I have an obscure question....this may be the wrong place for it. If you look at CFM horsepower calculations, a typical 3.6 "say" is capable of about 320 HP at 7k rpm at 100
percent volumetric efficiency. How do these mods to heads or intake and exhaust etc. supposedly increase power so much?
Because the engine is no longer a 3.6, and the remainder of the components are co-efficiently configured to compliment the engine combination, as a whole. This has been refined constantly for the last 18 years, and counting.
Ask anyone who owns one, and your "supposed" remark will quickly be corrected into reality.
Yes to all of the above. the current 4.0 has 3k track miles on it from 3 years of PCA club racing in the GT-3 group and the rest of the time DE lapping in the race group. Most of the miles are at Brainerd and Road America. You know the tracks with looong right hand turns at high speeds, the ones that kill M96X engines. Oh wait, Jake knew that and built the engine accordingly. So it continues to perform as speced. You cannot go wrong using FSI as your engine builder.
It's because of "Pulse Supercharging".
For a long time it was believed that 100% volumetric efficiency was the MAX that could be achieved by a Naturally Aspirated engine, but due to Pulse Supercharging by tuning the port size and velocity, the intake volume and velocity, camshaft timing/profile, efficiencies of way more than 100% can be achieved..
+1. And some engine designs that focus on peak power can end up with a higher peak VE number with a narrow range, but other engines are designed for a more broad power band, and might have lower peak VE and HP numbers.
Those peaky engines might �feel� faster, but the better engine builders design a smooth and wide power band, which can actually faster on the track due to more HP area under the curve, better drivability, etc.
that must be what the porsche intake manifolds are all about. does that butterfly valve in the crossover tube increase low end or high end? on the 3.6 it's in the non throttle body crossover. in my cayman it was in the throttle body crossover. i know when I installed a IDP plenum (and removed the butterfly valve), the low end suffered
I know I hijacked this thread but this stuff in very interesting and I wanted to hear Jakes experience. I just ran across this and it answers my basic question as to how this is possible. So FYI......"
As I understand it, inertia is responsible. Just because the piston reaches BDC the air isn't all of sudden going to just stop rushing in"
The butterfly valve makes the intake manifold a Dual stage/dual volume intake manifold, one stage promotes low RPM efficiency, and the other stage promotes high RPM efficiency..
Yes we do.. We have to. There's no guesswork here.
No, it is not shared. Never has been, never will be. I just spent 60K in the last month on tooling, and software for a single development. I do the development for my company, and my purchasers. I share a lot of it in paid classes, but there's never a free lunch.
Lon, thanks for chiming in. Your car has more miles on the track than most any 996 on this planet, and you make a great poster child for what we do, and how it works.
As far as genera statements about bolting things onto stock engines, well... That's not my department, because I haven't worked with a stock engine from a performance perspective since 2009. Everything I build is big. Some really big, and remain efficient. At the present my most recent R43 is making 485HP at the flywheel, on 93 octane pump gas, as a daily driver. It even does this with a stock DME (no aftermarket PEFI) and a stock 3.8L 997.1S air box.
Throwing bolt ons on top of a stock engine is what brings a lot of engines to me in pieces.
My question was directed to ltusler, I would not ask FSI for data that could be considered proprietary.
I'm not looking for your development info, I was wondering if HE would share any data HE has collected, that data would be things like what he sees on track for oil pressure, oil temp, coolant temp - hardly what I would consider proprietary info FWIW.
Not sure if that is what you're referring to as a free lunch, just a question in my book.
He can share what he wants. None of it will pertain unless someone has the same engine that he has. if not, you are comparing Atom Bombs with fragmentation grenades.
There's not much from Porsche left inside his engine, and each head has about 9 hours of welding done to it, so the ports can be whittled into it at new shapes/ angles and etc.
Thank you sir.....this is great info.....I like to hear the engine was pushed and gave back in a scenario that makes it safe and fun (safe.....Meaning on the track as opposed to the street). I do like the idea of the X51 scavenging pump and line. Seems like a nice oiling upgrade for the M9X.
LTusler doesn't have those. Doesn't need them. They were tossed away after the first failure, when the crankshaft sheared in half.
When we need them, we don't rely on the factory to supply them.
More real life info is helpful! 🙏 Thank you for this. Have you done any oil analysis or a compression/leak down test out of curiosity? Would be cool to see where you�re at after this kind of use.....the data would be great. Although, I�m sure the seat of the pants (in the drivers seat) maybe tells you enough. I love to hear that the car is being driven as intended.
Thank you for access to the webinar. Wish I could pull the trigger on one.
I have an X51. It seems you discount this variant. But then you state:
The X-51 variant of the 996.2 engine can also be utilized as a base engine for an R40, R43, or R44 engine. These engines benefit from the R series work, and we can create even more powerful variants of the R series engine when starting with these foundations.
Can it be a better base for a non R Series engine?
The X51 isn't magical for us. It does make it easier for us when going to an R Series, since the X51 cams can be used, with altered cam timing. To modify the X51 heads for a larger engine is a different process than using the R51 CNC heads, which are optional for all R Series engines.
I would much rather use our goodies over the X51 to build an R Series, so the engine stays further separated from anything that the factory offered.
LTusler's engine picked up over 30HP when we eliminated the X51 heads, and replaced them with the R51 CNC cylinder heads. That's just one example.
What a great thread! Thank you Bash Hat for starting this. All the later tech discussion that rolls out fully demonstrates how you are able to write this review. It strongly validates my decision to talk with and contract with FSI for my new engine. Before I bought this car I researched the common problems and knew that it would need an engine somewhere down the road. All the fails listed are lifetime wear-out issues, albeit, highly dependent on the preventive maintenance and gas/oil quality used during life. The options I found for engine replacements and parts was quite adequate. So when 'the tick' started, I started seriously looking for options. If you interview 10 people for a job, One of those will stand out significantly from the others. I chose Jake and FSI because they are the very significant standouts. He's the one that has done the work to truly understand how these engines fail and has engineered solutions to what appears to be all the issues. His engineering work along the the experience of examining each engine that gets to his shop is what you are buying. I could rebuild the engine and it would probably die in 30K miles. If I buy an FSI engine, I won't need to worry about it. (and then my son won't need to worry about it either) I'm not interested in tracking the car, so I'm not worried about that type of robustness, but I know that if a builder lists a track engine in his lineup, the knowledge of how to make that engine work well will roll down to the more mundane versions.
Sorry for the blather. Thanks everyone for the great discussions over the last year. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Keep rollin'
Been dormant on here for a while but I�ve put around 4K miles on the 4.0 since late last year. Just got back from an early morning Canyon rip and all I can say is this motor is smooooth. The road I took this morning is pretty tight and twisty, best keeping it in 2nd gear most of the way between 5-6k rpms. The engine is just silky and temps never got much above 180-190. Still puts a smile on my face every time!
I'll consider this your 4,000 mile follow up :-)
So glad that the smile remains on your face.. Smoothness is one of my big targets, and comes from dynamic balancing, blueprinting, and hand craftsmanship from a single human that creates the engine. This is what happens when clocks, calendars, and business doesn't get in the way of the craft.
I'm also approaching 4k miles on my FSI 4.0 Stage II. One must experience it firsthand to truly understand how unique it feels, I haven't yet figured out just how to properly explain it to people.
You got those miles fast. Drive it!
Love it when I read this, hate it a year later when I have to light someone on fire because they still have the intermediate oil in the engine because they've driven it less than 1K miles in a year.. The THREE MONTHS OR 1K miles WHICHEVER COMES FIRST shoots right over their head no matter how many times I say it.
When that happens, I am not passive about it. Miss an oil service, or any other directed item, and you'll hear about it! :-)
With my 03 Targa Tip, I just push the pedal and it goes, and keeps going, its all torque and no drama. With the track car, we add lots of loudness, the engine has a very distinct sound, I get lots of good comments at the track. I am running headers, X pipe and tips.
