Clutch replacement... keep stock or upgrade?

Hi everyone, I think the day approaches when I will be needing a clutch as I am almost certain the in the last two days I have seen it slip in a hard shift from 1 to 2. So, I seek some guidance and wisdom... do I replace it with another stock clutch or do I upgrade it? if so to what brand Also, when doing all of this should I just throw in a LWFW since it is all open? looking for suggestions, recommendations, etc. I do plan to do several DE's a year (4-6) Thanks in advance. -Paul

are you sure the clutch is slipping ona hard 1-2 usually the tires slip on a hard 1-2, check your clutch by driving at 3000 rpm in 4th gear and floor it if the tach jumps before the car your gonna need a clutch. I vote factory ive seen to mnay issues with aftermarket porsceh clutchs

Firehawk, I'll give that one a try. So, stay stock.... what about the flywheel? A lighterweight unit?

I say go with stock.

Stay stock unless you want to affect the driveability. Most guys like the idea of a lightweight flywheel and an upgrade clutch until they have to drive it.

What year car do you have? You can get the Sachs clutch (stock) which is fine for aggressive street driving. Going with the stage 2 Sachs will change the feel and engagement of the clutch. LWFW will make your car sound like a rattling junk while sitting at a light or stop sign. A good way to test the 996 clutch is to do a redline shift from 2nd to 3rd. If you experience continued slippage until you let up, it is the disc. If it slips for a few seconds and then finally grabs, it is the actuator lever. Either one will require dropping tranny.

ive seen very few customers that have gone with a lwfw and or a heavy clutch and been happy with it and most that were happy were problay just pretending to justify the cost. The last lwfw and heavy duty clutch i did i belive it was a gt3 disc and a 996 02+ pressureplate in a 00 boxtser s was a kit sold by someone dont remember who i had to swap 3 discs and 2 pressure platesto get one to work and i still had to make an adjustable stop for his clutch pedal becasue when the pedal was depressed the fingers hit the sprung hub of the disc. so tranny in and out 5 times and still had to rig the car for it to work. track car ok maybe, lwfw is gonna drive like crap on the street, stoplight to stoplight, high way might be fun. The clutch itself. unless your putting down more hp (not more hp from a K&n and a mufler) actual more horsepower or running true slicks youll never know the diffrence except your leag will be sore and it will wear out faster

Just out of curosity, what is the cost to replace a clutch and flywheel on a 996? Does the 996TT have a different clutch? Do you have to replace the flywheel when you replace the clutch? -Ryan

the flyweeel can last the life of the car if you dont burn it up or keep driving when the clutch fails so no it doesnt have toi be replaced unless damaged (flywheels are about 1500-2000 if you need incentive not to hurt it) a clutch kit is 750-950 depending on where your located the labor is usually 8-10 hours at the shops hourly rate average is 100-110 so figure 1800 or so at a dealer the turbo uses a 993 style clutch, its a pull stlye clutch instead of the push stlye on na 996s (almost every car make model is a push clutch) the clutch kit is 1300-1700 iirc and labor is 18-20 hours in most shops so figure double

Stock clutch kit from dealer is $550 or less. Many indy shops will change the clutch for $1200 including the kit. No need to change flywheel. If it shows signs of extreme burning (blue markings) it can be safely turned down.

Paul, Just curious, how many miles do you have on your clutch??

I have no problems with the LWFW and a stockish Sach Clutch kit in regards to driveability, even in rush hour trafic. The one problem I do have, which 1999Porsche said so eloquently "LWFW will make your car sound like a rattling junk while sitting at a light or stop sign."

First off, Thanks for all the advice. I bought my car with 63000 miles and thought going into it that the clutch may be near the end. I now have 65000. From everyone's points, it sounds like I'll be staying with stock clutch. I'll try a few of the tests mentioned on here as well as have porsche pull my service records from the PO to see if the TSB on the actuator was ever done because it did have an RMS done under warranty at 30K.

Well confirmed it.. any gear at steady rpm, stab throttle and rpms jump up briefly by 200-400 rpm and then engages. So that sounds like the actuator according to firehawk. But if I need to get that fixed shouldn't I get a clutch done too since the tran is off? It is a 99 with 65k.

nope not by me .............ive never seen that 200-400 isnt much, are you sure its slipping? hows the pedal feel is it hard to depress. does it feel mushy?

Just had a LWFW installed my car and the noise inside the car is barely audable. It is obvious standing under the car on a lift. Listening to all the whining going on, I expected to be able to hear it from down the block, I have had no such experience even in a GT3 which has little sound deadening. The performance difference was well worth the effort, noise or not. Go for the flywheel and don't look back.

I took a real careful look this time...(no one in front of me) and it comes up by almost 1k or more. Also, on a short shift from 2 to 3 at about 3500 rmp it actually spun all the way up to 5k and stayed there as long as I kept my foot in it. Not gonna drive it anymore so I don't f up the flywheel. I was going to drive to a buddies shop out of state to do it but considering how bad it is I am taking to my local place Tues am. Quoted $1300 at my shop which is what I expected after the input from here, other non dealer shops around here quoted between 1600 and 1800.

With the engine idling, windows down, gearbox in neutral and with your foot not sitting on the clutch pedal it's barely audible?

Not in my book. It's very audible in that situation and even worse when the AC is on. There is also gear noise when accelerating in 6th from low speeds(55MPH)/rpms. The idling sound isn't loud like an intake or exhaust at WOT. It's more like the "sound level" of someone with a squeaky fanbelt or pully at idle.

Jason, Thats what I'm saying. Maybe the GT3 motor is just quieter in this case than the standard 996. I also listened to a CGT, LWFW also, and even standing above the tranny was not that loud. With the rear deck open and my head in there it was noticable but not in any way objectionable. All I can tell you is what my experience has been. Believe me, if my car was noisy, I would have no problem telling you that. Well it is noisy, but not because of the LWFW.

If you track or autocross the LWFW is a no brainer (noise) or not. The performence is well worth it. As for the sound, your car will sound more like the CGT, GT3RS(ROW),Cup cars and other pieces of junk. Oh and it will be faster in 1, 2, and 3rd. You can also run muffler bypass

Update: ended up needing a flywheel as well, hotspotted and radiating cracks. Ordered an AASCO LWFW for my 1999 C2, Seems that Fidanza doesn't currently have one for the 3.4 with the 8 holes. Also, the RMS was not leaking but had some oil moisture so that is getting replaced as well while it is all open. I'll post impressions of the LWFW once I get the car back.

definitely upgrade the clutch!! I replace my clutch with a SACHS kit and I think it's already slipping again... I do a 1st to 2nd aggressive gear change and at first I thought it was the tires squeaking.... after I do some measurements with my GTEK I see my car is slower from 0-60 than it ever was !!! the squeak apears to be something slipping inside the car... I had a sachs clutch kit in there and also had the flywheel re-machined.... if I were to do it again I'd get the upgrade SACHS sport clutch kit *without* the flywheel.... I don't have a LWFW but I've heard lots of people complaining about the noise... my 2cents.

I have the AASCO, the Fidanza was a little too expensive for me.

Probably not burned in correctly...

If you didn't replace the release lever with the new design, chances are, that is your problem and not the clutch kit. (As a matter of fact, I can almost guarantee that is the problem).

To add a little here. My car is sitting on a lift since yesterday waiting for the release lever. No point putting it back together without the updated clutch actuator/release lever.

The "release lever"? great ... so should the mechanic who did this been aware of the release lever update... my car is a 99 and he does lots of porsches... is this common knowledge and if so was ne negligent in not replacing what sounds like a "critical" part? I had the car out again tonight... it only happen from 1st to 2nd.... any other gear change 2nd-3rd 3rd-4th is very strong... is this a definite sign of an "old design release lever" how much does a release lever cost and does this mean dropping out the tranny again? thx! P.

i have never heard or seen the release lever casue a slipping clutch..........it was updated for noise's and ive never heard other wise. c70pete how did they machine your flywheel?

It is not a documented (publicly anyway) problem by Porsche but it will eventually effect all early 996's. Take a look at the differences between the 2 levers and you can easily see the design flaw. The slave was also changed but it is not critical to fixing this problem.

Lever cost with grease is about $40. Yes, your installer should have replaced the lever as part of the clutch change, IMO. I had my clutch changed and the INDY did not do so, resulting in the same symptoms you have. INDY (without me asking) said he should have been aware of all TSB's and pulled the tranny at his expense. Additional cost to me was just the $40 in parts. Turning your flywheel is fine and will not cause your symptoms. A good way to test for a bad lever is a redline shift from 2nd - 3rd. Clucth may slip but eventually catch as the lever finds it's home position. If you're car is stock, it may be better to do the test from 1st - 2nd.

ok... I would expect my INDY to do the same and pull the tranny for the lever... if you had the same problems as I did from 1st to 2nd then it's got to be the same issue... the "kick" of shifting into 2nd is diminished and there is a "squeak" that sounds like something inside the car is slipping... not the tires... I'm speaking to my INDY today so lets see what he says... originally he told me to see if SACHS will do a warranty replacement but I am sure he is not aware of the lever/actuator part.... so what is the official name of this part.... ? shift release lever/actuator? or is it something else? thx. P.

Release Lever.

Jim your awesome! I just got off the phone with my mechanic and he asked me for part numbers... you beat me to it! Peter

Print the TSB and give it to your mechanic but it is unlikely to be the source of your problem so soon after your clutch replacement (but who knows).

This has been a problem on countless 996's. The problem is that the old design of the release lever does not have a deep enough recess where the slave piston sits in. This allows the psiton to easily slip out of position and momentarily press against the lever at a point closer to the pivot point of the lever. The piston normally finds it's proper position a few second afterwards. Not normally a problem with around town shifting, but when you get on it and shift quickly, the parts shift position. Because the piston is closer to the lever's pivot point and higher in the slot, it holds the thrust bearing against the pressure plate, which keeps the disc from being held tightly against the flywheel. This is a problem with both old and new clutchs. The new lever has a much deeper slot (ball journal recess) and I have had no problems with it at all. Just another problem which Porsche refuses to officially acknowledge.

Jim, that sounds like EXACTLY what is cause that internal chirp from 1st to 2nd....

Will be picking up my C4 today from the workshop for a clutch/flywheel replacement. Cost :- JPY171,927 (approx USD$1456) for clutch service JPY141,960 (approx USD$1202) for new flywheel Total JPY313,887 (USD$2659) It's a 2001 C4 that's done about 35,500km (22,000miles). I'm gonna need to treat my car more nicely in the future....

that sounds like a ripoff to me....

that price is about right

The total clutch price is right in line mine is being done for $1350 plus whatever the flywheel costs. The only thing that sounds out of line is the flywheel (I was just quoted $950 USD this week for a factory dualmass flywheel).

hang on guys... clutch service for $1350 is normal?? that's pretty high... you can get a SACHS clutch kit off ebay for $350 and labour is usually another 5 hours... the whole job shouldn't cost more than $800... now additional costs are: a) remachining the flywheel b) actuator lever... but most people wouldn't need that from MY 2000 and beyond...

Pete what part of the country are you in? What are the labor rates. I'm speaking for the Wash DC metro area where everything is exp. FYI: it is a ripoff but dealers charge ~$600 for that same clutch kit. Retail vs wholesale. I was quoted several prices at other shops all north of $1600 for the clutch job.

I paid $320 for the clutch kit on Ebay and $550 for the install at an Indi shop. My total bill was 2300 for the lwfw, 2nd RMS and B&M SSK (including install).

Wash DC P, The difference is buying the clutch kit on ebay vs getting via the dealer parts network as the labor rate is nearly identical. Do you mind PMing me the name of the shop that you used for my comparison?

MSRP is $947.32USD so figure dealer cost is around $5-600.

I have a clutch assy from my GT3 available < 5,00 street miles no de or racing. PM me if interested.

gt3 clutch is diffrent then regualr 996 clutch not interchangeable

Just got my car back. New clutch and TSB updates, feels completely different compared to what was there, very light action. LWFW FVD, definitely makes a rattling noise at idle with AC on, does not always make the noise without AC. Revs quicker, easier rev match. Doubt that it makes the car much faster if at all. Here's hoping I don't need anything for a while. Gonna go drive this thing a bunch to bed in the clutch with normal driving before heading to a DE this weekend.

talked to my mechanic and said that they never do this on a 99 clutch replacement! hmm.... also told me that the OEM SACHS clutch kit was of inferior quality to what porsche uses in their dealerships.... is their any merit to what they are saying... is the OEM clutch kit from porsche really of better quality than the SACHS kit... one thing I can say I noticed when the SACHS kit went in is a lighter clutch pedal... the original porsche clutch kit was stiffer and I like the fact that it was stiffer it felt better... so the fact that it felt different perhaps indicates that the OEM kit and the SACHS kit have some differences.... in any case don't know what to do right now because of this 1st to 2nd performance issue... we can always drop the tranny and look at the health of the clutch and perform the TSB but the issue is who's gonna pay for this re-work.... my mechanis says if there are burn marks the clutch disc is no good... is this true?

yes and no if the disc is cooked it will glaze and then its pretty much toast

Paul, I wish I had seen this earlier when you first had the problem. I'd have let you take my car out for a spin. I have a LWFW and it's definitely noisy, but as you know my car is about 95% track only. -KJ

KJ, no worries I am perfectly ok with the noise. I recalled what your car sounded like at Summit when you were my instructor back at the Aug PCA DE.

$400+ for OEM Porsche clutch kit $700+ for OEM Porsche flywheel $700 for install at my indy =$1800 total

you got a fair price for all those parts and the labor... now make sure you break it in for the first 300 miles before you start abusing it...

man i so don't abuse but i will baby it for sure thx for the reminder