Sway bars or coilovers?

Ok, my friend installed Koni Ground Controls on his M3 along with bigger sway bars. The car is absolutely flat now and feels like it out handles my car now. But when riding in it and watching it auto-x, I notice the car actually feels and looks a little more softer. For instance, when he launches the car, it appears to squat more in the rear and when riding around, it aborbs the bumps better than the factory suspension too. So, I am figuring that the majority of the better handling has came from the sway bars, am I missing something? My question goes, would the GT3 sway bars or some other sway bars be better than the coilovers for the best bang for the buck when it comes to handling? It is one or the other for me right now budget wise. TIA

If you are on a budget I suggest you skip coilovers and go with a traditional spring shock combo like the ROW M030 or x74 kit. You get up rated shocks, springs, and sway bars for $1,100 - $2,100. You are describing two different things: Body roll and squat and dive. How many miles are on the car? If over 50K I suggest you consider doing the shock spring route as your shocks are probably starting to show their age. I also found that the stock shocks are of poor ride quality in general and upgrading them makes for an overall better driving experience. If you dont' want to go with a Porsche kit, also look at the Bilstein HD or sport shocks and a set of H&R springs. GT3 bars are going to be expensive, the drop links will set you back as much as the bars! For me I decided on the x74 kit and couldn't be happier with the results

Let's be clear here... it's all coilovers... shock/springs... where the diff is the ROW and x74 are non-adjustable whereas the PSS9s and likely the GC units on your buddy's M3 are adjustable coilovers with the biggest adjustability being height.

This is from Dart Auto. So I need drop links, how much do those run? I dont see them. 996 GT3 Adjustable Front Sway Bar $205.00 For Porsche 996, 26.8mm 5 way adjustable sway bar as found on the Euro GT3. Includes 2 front bushings 996 343 792 16. The existing front drop links must be shortened 1/2". Genuine Porsche. 99634370190 996 GT3 Adjustable Rear Sway Bar $170.00 For Porsche 996, 20.7mm 4 way adjustable sway bar as found on the Euro GT3. Includes 2 front bushings 996 333 792 26. The existing front drop links must be shortened 1". Genuine Porsche. 99633370190

Yes, but the fact is, the car is softer on bumps and squats more on launch leading me to believe the new bigger sway bars are doing all the work.

I'm not arguing for or against dude what is doing what sways or coilovers... just clarifying that you have coilovers even on your stock as can be Porsche 911 per UCrazy and what you're missing are the fundamentals... you say you rode in it... you gotta drive it. and you gotta drive it pre and post changes. but it sounds like you didn't. so you're asking for someone else's experience on probably entirely different setups. my recommendation is find a way to drive one pre and post of your car. also how the heck can the sways be "doing all the work"? Think about it. it's not one thing.. it's many things working together . you can't single out a couple of bars swapped to account for all the changes done to a moving object and a heavy fast powerful one like an automobile. my recommendtion: adjustable coilovers first. then sways if you even want them after the adjustable coilovers. it'll make your car not only handle better, but look better at the same time, but of course it's gonna cost u more to start.

TRG (the racers group) $514 for a complete set, front and rear. http://www.theracersgroup.com/shop/trgracing.php Tarett Engineering $450 for a complete set, front and rear. http://www.tarett.com/items/996-products/list.htm Agency Power F $225 R $220 http://www.agency-power.com/catalog/...hp/cPath/58_60

I dont understand your first statement. 996's have Macpherson struts factory, not coilovers. Second, I have rode/drove the **** out of my friends M3 along with another M3 my other friend has, both stock until one put the GCs on and bars. So in essence, I have been in pre/post configurations My point is, since the car rides smoother, less jarring and squat mores, it seems the sway bars have improved the handling since the coilovers are softer than the factory Macphersons. Just wondering if people have had the same experience.

yes, the sways have a bigger impact on handling around corners, springs and dampners are for the ride. However, one needs the other for the overall performance. I put H&R sways and it had a bigger impact on turn in than my pss9's

Tippy, You are right the car has Macpherson struts factory, not coilovers. The M030 and x74 are both Macpherson also. A less harsh/jarring (Perceivably soft) suspenion does not necessarily mean it has less control. it can be a combination of the better valving and progressive rate springs. What are you trying to change with your car? How much budget do you have? How many miles are on your car currently? How do you want to drive the car? (%road and track) The least expensive route would be to go sway bars first, especially when you include what you will spend on install. Springs and struts will need more labor to put in and require an alignment. Do the bars first, you can always do the other stuff later. With that said though, there is not one thing that will solve all issues. All the parts work together. If you are willing to spend a bit more and do it all at once, I would say the ROW M030 or x74 kit are your best bang for the buck. You get new springs, struts, and swaybars. You don't need to replace your drop links, etc. You can always find a better solution, but not at a better price!

Thanks, this is the feedback I was looking for. I agree about the whole package but I didnt want to put just coilovers and the cars handling wouldnt improve as much as the sway bars themselves.

My car has 93K miles now but hasnt faded too bad, still has decent control but I know it deserves new coilovers. Yes, I understand the valving is what you "feel" over factory stuff but I was quite surprised how nicely the car takes bumps and amazed at the squat, yet corners like crazy. I think my budget became the GT3 bars, sounds like the best bang for the buck.

Thanks for the links, the last didnt work

if you think about it, the sole purpose of the sways are for cornering... however, to stiff of a sway bar will impact on the independent suspension... its more of an art than science.

I agree 100%, I am kind of new to handling coming from drag racing (softer the suspension the better, usually). I had a '95 Z07 Corvette and it was my first taste of handling but I have really wanted to learn more of the dynamics of handling since the Porsche. Suspension really is a science, some Engineers at my company said that the hardest part of learning engineering was learning suspensions.

Front: http://www.agency-power.com/catalog/...products_id/70 Rear: http://www.agency-power.com/catalog/...products_id/71 Interesting thread here that you will enjoy: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/353617-installed-gt3-sway-bars-on-my-99-996-cab-what-a-difference.html Honestly though you might want to really think about replacing those struts if they have 94K on them. The stock struts are made by Boge and don't hold up all that well. Just because they are not leaking doesn't mean they aren't worn out. You might need to replace them as a wear and tear item.

Tippy, sent you an email with some advice based on 1st hand experience. My opinion here is that the best bang for the buck to improve the cornering capability of your car is to add adjustable sway bars but not necessarily the GT3 versions since they add an unnecessary cost of an adjustable droplink to take out the preload. A great alternative is to use the H&R swaybars made specifically for the 996 C2 that are direct bolt ons. The front is non adjustable and the rear is adjustable. I have ridden in 996s and 986s that only had the sway bars and noticed a significant cornering improvement in the cars on the track (more direct turn in and flatter) over my stock suspensioned 996. There's my 2 cents. Paul

I know the struts need replacing but I might sale/trade the car soon, easy to pull off the bars, the struts is a little more involved and I would have to put the factory ones back on. Thanks for the links.

Got it, thanks again!

Tippy - If you go the GT3 sway bar route, give Sunset Porsche a call. I just order the 2 bars this week (with bushings) for a little under $300 before shipping....

Sunset seems to have the best deal on the gt3 bars. Just need to find some decent drop links that aren't too pricey to make em worth it.