C4S as daily driver?

A little background: currently own a 120k mile Pathfinder and a 2007 Corvette Z51. Have owned a C5 Z06, NSX, and several Supra's. The C5 Z06 was a VERY fun car, but the C6 just isn't. The steering is vague and mushy. It's got lots of power and handles like it's on rails, but does not feel right in the twisties, which to me is 90% of the fun. I know it's capable of pulling almost 1g on the skidpad and could definitely outrun just about any non-turbo, non-GT3/GT2 modern Porsche on the track, but I'm more about feel than bragging rights. I am considering several different cars. My first consideration is getting a Lotus Elise and either keeping the Pathfinder or getting another daily driver. The Elise is fantastic fun, best sports car I've ever driven by far. The downside for me would be the safety issues of being the smallest thing on the road. I was also considering getting a low mile 2005 E46 M3 as an only car. This would be a little cheaper. Having two cars is a pain sometimes, and it's twice the insurance and upkeep. Lastly, I never considered it before, but I am looking at 911 C4S's now. Probably 2000-2002ish. They have several things I like: AWD for inclement weather, one of the best steering racks in the business, class/sophistication, style, etc. So how do these cars perform as daily drivers, most notably in the winter with good winter tires? What are average upkeep costs in comparison to something like an M3? I'm single, rarely have more than one person in the car, and don't have a huge need for lots of space. The only thing I would miss is being able to take my mountain bike places. Also, my last concern is safety. Yes, it's always been a concern of mine. I got in a very bad wreck in 2001 and somehow got out with nary a scratch. I learned to appreciate safety very quickly. How do 996's fare in accidents? It seems without the engine in front, a head-on or frontal offset collision could be nasty. Insight/opinions always appreciated.

I have a 2003 C5 ZO6 (3800 miles) & couldn't agree more about handling. I have done 4 DE events & always feel out at the "edge" even though the published figures show very high lateral g's etc. I just purchased a 2003 Carrera 4S & the handling couldn't be better. The difference is night & day. I would have no problem recommending the C4s as a daily drive. From what I have read, the safety is very good in these cars. Good luck. Todd

I would recommend any modern day Porsche as a daily driver other than the CGT. Maintenance is on par with other higher end sport cars such as the M3. On the safety end the AWD is definitely a plus especially for slippery road condition and with crumply zones and airbags it is as safe as other similarly equipped cars but of course a good driver is the most important safety feature. I say go for it you wont be disappointed.

I live in Michigan where AWD drive in mandatory for a daily driver. With snows my car can go anywhere, as long the snow isn't over 8 inches deep. I've had the car for four winters and never gotten stuck. I actually look forward to winter now. People in SUV's give you the strangest looks when you pull away from them at a light on a snowy wintery day. The car is absolutely rock solid. Some say that you give up " steering feel" because of the AWD setup compared to a normal C2. On rainy and/or snowy days I wouldn't drive anything else. In case you haven't noticed I LOVE THIS CAR!!

If you are looking for the best steering rack in the business, decent power (insane power for me, but considering your past rides and todays standards I have to call it "decent"), and daily drivability then Porsche is the answer. But, other than the NSX all other previous rides may have spolied you for the need for more torque. So considering that, I would suggest you to look for an 01 996 TT, great deals to be had

My C4S is my DD year round. With snow tires, it's unstoppable in anything but blizzard conditions. I feel more confident and safe in it than any of the 7 Jeeps I've owned in the past. BTW: 996 C4S were only made from 02 to 05. Prior to 02 they were C4...great car but not widebodied with the bigger brakes, track suspension from TT.

In the snow? Hyperbole?

On road yes. Off-road no, of course. I was chief instructor for Jeep College up here for a number of years. While the Jeeps can almost go anywhere off-road, their on-road feel is pretty vague and the brakes are severely undersized for the weight of the vehicle.

Isn't there a bike rack available for the 996 models? I know there is for the 986 models. Other than that issue, there's no reason not to drive a C4S as a daily.

I agree with most everything posted previously. In terms of upkeep, however, an 05 M3 will be substantially cheaper to maintain. Why? The BMW free maintenence program. If you get an 05, that means no out of pocket expenses until 2009. You can even extend the maintenence for any extra 2 years for around $1500. You'll also have the peace of mind of a warranty as well. That being said, I had an M3, and now own a C4S. The other reasons were too compelling.

Isn't reliability a little better overall on the 911's?

Do you mean a permanent bike rack? I don't think I could do that to a 911. There are removable trunk racks, BUT they require a trunk. I don't think you could strap them into the engine bay! I can't link them because I don't have enough posts, but Hollywood Bike Racks is one of the companies that makes the trunk strap-based racks.

Oh, and I ski too! Hmmm....

What is the insurance difference for the two cars for you?

Yes, they do make a bike rack for the 996. Check out the link to the roof transport system. For bike rack info, click on bike carrier on the left side of the screen. http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessori.../touring/n172/

I went from a 02 Z06 to an 02 C4S. That should say alot. I don't drive my C4S in the snow, but I'm sure it would be fine with proper snow tires. It is a very safe car too, much safer than a vette would be in an accident. What year was your NSX? I'm thinking of buying one (I will keep the C4S of course).

I had a 2003 M3 also, used it as a daily driver. I don't know how good it would be in the snow even with snow tires since it's rear wheel drive. I never got a chance to find out, mine was stolen.

I had a 1993

You mentioned you were single, that will change too with the C4S.....lol

Have girlfriend, no wife.

Honestly, the two big things keeping me from getting one right now are: - Place to put skis, on an M3 this is as sample as folding down the rear seat - Place to put bike, M3 just use a trunk strap system This might be an OK option for the bike: http://www.automotion.com/ProductPage.aspx?pid=104581 But for skis? I don't want to drill holes into the car.

a 996 comes with factory roof rack mounts, just fold open the little doors on the roof rails and attach it the Porsche Techquipment bike rack. I imagine you could also adapt the bike rack to mount skis on it.

Pics of said mounts?

I don't have a pic, but there are two roof flaps in the strips on the the top of the car on either side of the car as shown in the attached PET diagram. The flaps open up to reveal a bolt that is used to install the roof rack system.

Pretty cool. I wonder how long it takes to install/remove the racks. I guess my only remaining concern would be long-term reliability. Although I probably wouldn't own the car past 70/80k miles, I still want it to be reliable. Just did a search and am researching that a bit...

I would guess 10 - 15 minutes to install it. Only 4 bolts, seems pretty simple.

I have the roof transport sysyem, check it out, it is pretty kool. Then you purchase whatever kinda sysyem you need, the mountain bike carrier in my case and I think thats what you seek also. Was about 1,200$ cnd for me. $900 for the transport system then another coupl hunnys for the bike carrier. If you go the the Porsche web site and look for the system in techquipment should see some pics. I don't have pics of mine installed and my car is in the shop The system installs very easily and come off quick too. Only thing I worry about is forgetting the bike is up there and driving into the garage.....not to mention scratching the car. Also there is this one that mounts to the back of the car, http://www.willwoodsystem.com that I found here in this forum and I am thinking it may be a better option. Good luck happy biking. Geoff

I think they each have there own problems. The 996 with the RMS issues and the M3 with the rod bearing problems on the earlier cars. I had no real issues with my M3 and my 996 has been trouble free (for the past 2 months ). I believe the previous generation 993's were a bit more reliable and the 996TT engine is considered "bulletproof", however I have no real 1st hand experience with them. good luck on your decision, if you drive both, I'm pretty sure which one you'll choose

My C4S is a daily driver. I also am a daily bike rider. I use this rack: http://www.willwoodsystem.com/

I think a Prius would make a better DAILY driver

Just do it. You won't regret it.

Were side airbags standard on these?

Yep, side airbags are in there, back to '02.

And hopefully my last question of the week. What aftermarket warranties are recommended? (Warranty Direct says it does not cover 911's)

This is the second time I've seen it stated here that Warranty Direct doesn't cover 911. I purchased a plan from them about 3 months ago - and they definitely knew it was a 911. Is this a new policy? Perhaps they got tired of engine swaps?? Regarding a C4S as a Daily Driver. I'll be the skunk at the party. I would suggest you drive one - in stop and go traffic. Not sure where you live but without tip, it can be tiresome on the left leg if you are in a major metro and communting is an ordeal The cluch is heavy and deep. I don't commute anymore, so I love the shifting action mostly. But if I were doing the stop and go for 50 minutes every day I think I would have an alternative on hand.

I've owned a 03 C4S for 3 years, fantastic on and off the track - not literally and it's for sale, 22k, cobalt blue, if your interested send me a private message.

I would rather not have the Porsche than have it be a daily driver. I daily drive a Jeep Cherokee, but usually end up driving the Porsche a bit more just because it's more fun to drive than the Jeep, but the Jeep definitely gives me much more peace of mind than the Porsche. For example, I rarely if ever take the Porsche out downtown to party. Parking sux. Lots of drunks as my p-car draws its fair share of attn. Jeep - I pay no mind. This is where it absolutely sux to have to drive the Porsche if it was my only car.

I'd hit up a reputable local P-car dealer and ask them - that's what I did and I had a good experience.

Ben, I'm in the same boat as you, but I always take my car out clubbing. Front spot at all the clubs, know all the Valets by 1st name, and they me. They always leave my car right up front and NEVER drive it. I always make it a point to get there names, remember them and really take care of 'em. In all the years I've been clubbing/valet'ing, never so much as a scuff. BTW Ben, I LOVE the way the Cherokee looks next to the TT. Two such classic looking cars that compiment the hell out of eachother, I KNOW you agree!!! Anyhow, I would not own a Porsche if it was my only car, for the reasons you mentioned. ESPECIALLY in the winter.

I have an '02 C2 so I can't comment on the AWD, but it's my daily driver and I've put 28000 miles on it since I bought it last May. It's now at 78000 miles and running well (including some time at 140mph on Sunday at the Silver State ). The 6-speed doesn't bother me on my commute through LA, but I think the city traffic may cut clutch life to 50k or less (and I'm used to babying clutches to 150k or beyond).

In the more cosmo Seattle (can't believe I'm saying that, but we are comparing it to STL here), we have very hilly, narrow streets downtown and with the added threat of rain, it just plain sucks to ride out party nites. It's nice to pimp it out front, but honestly, that 30 seconds of showmanship isn't worth sacrificing the peace of mind that the P-car is at home in the garage chillin. Plus, there's very little valet service in downtown Seattle and the turnover is so high, it's not even worth trying to build a relationship. It ain't no podunk STL where peeps make a career out of valeting and can still afford a mortgage. And I completely agree with you that I love the way the Jeep Cherokee looks. It's got classic boxy styling and reliable as all heck. I will keep this thing till it dies. Currently at 116K miles. 1999 Sport. Timeless!

I have owned lots of Jeeps and lots of Porsches and I can tell you that given a choice, I will always drive the Porsche. Both the Porsche ('99 C2 -84,000 miles) and the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (140,000 miles) have both done long stints as daily drivers. And I have have had other Porsches and Jeeps doing much the same routine. Who would ever choose to drive a Jeep over a Porsche as long as you have some open highway? The biggest drawback to the Porsche is always where to park it. I have found over the years though, that if you are careful and pick your spots carefully, you can keep the car free of dings and dents. Of course I don't live in a city, so that makes it easier. Now I am not so careful with the jeep and it has more than its share of battle damage. As for driving in the snow, I actually almost prefer the Porsche with Blizzaks. I just feel like I have much better grip then the standard SUV all season tires. Actually the best snow car I ever had was an Audi TT with Blizzaks. I imagine a C4S would be just as nice. It was like driving an ATV in the snow. Of course in NJ we normally don't get too deep a snow. That is where the Jeep is clearly superior. But that Jeep is heavy and SUV all season tires don't have the grip of Blizzaks.

As I said in a previous thread, I had a 2002 M-3 and now own a '99 996. If you love the way a Porsche drives like I do, you won't be happy with the M-3 (my opinion). If you like the power of the C6, get a TT like previously mentioned.

Used it daily with absolutely no issues and race it at club events......regular service and that is it.....great in snow with snow tires, and very secure in the rain, even when pushing it a bit........only issue is new rear tires every 15,000 miles, but as anticipated.......have received more compliments on my 996 C4S than any other car I have owned.....BMWS, Jags, MINI,993, etc...go for it...

Show us your interiors for those of you who daily drive your 911

No problem! BTW, some of those interior pics were taken in winter (notice fancy rubber mats), snowy Canadian winter! Added a bonus engine shot for you to see how "dirty" a winter driven Porsche gets.

Hmm. Not a Gt3 and DEF NOT a TT, unless you like driving a fullon supercar around, everywhere you go....

If you don't mind me asking, what warranty did you get and for how much?

Any of the rear or mid engine Porsches will be good in snow, since the main weight is over the rear drive. The caveat is you have to have good snow or all-season tires--summer tires won't hack it in cold weather on any car. The C4 is obviously better in snow, but not necessary.

Has anyone ever tried painting the back reflector that's unique to the 4S? Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't.

No, no. Don't paint the reflector. It is just what the back end of the car needs. One of the nice features that sets the C4S apart. IMHO.

Agreed with BrandX.

$3200 48K/4 miles, everything included, 100 bucks deductible - no questions asked service yea, painting that reflector would be like shaving the head off of jessica alba

What was the name of the warranty company? I once bought a warranty for a car - $1200 thrown away. Company went out of business not even 2 years later.

I forget - email this guy for more info: [email removed] Barrier owns Porsche/Audi/Benz/Volvo here in Bellevue, WA.

Btw, as far as concerns of where to park, who's going to screw with it, etc.... I'm not all that concerned. After owning all these sports cars over the years and using them for daily duties increasingly, I've pretty much gotten over my previous garage queen obsessions. If it gets a scratch, big deal, no one will notice it but me. If it gets vandalized, well, that's what insurance is for. If it gets a little road salt on it in the winter, it's nothing that can't wash off, and I'm only going to keep the car for 2-3 years TOPS (I go through cars like women go through pocketbooks). I live in an area that has very, very little crime, so I can pretty much park it anywhere. When I go to NYC, I know a few garages. I park my Corvette in NYC garages all the time and have never had an issue. Lots of garages have high-end cars sitting in them. In the end, my main concerns are things that creep up on you from day to day: comfort, quality, reliability, knowing you won't be stranded, snow performance, insurance, etc. I really thought about continuing to do this daily driver + fun car thing. But in the end, I have discovered I just don't have time for that fun car. As much as I ADORE the Elise - it tops my most wanted right now - when am I going to have time to drive it? I've picked up new hobbies - mountain biking and kayaking. With those in place, my spirited drive time is cut in half. I work almost all week, so what does that leave? I would rather ENJOY the car I drive every day. I would rather enjoy the drive to work. And the Elise is just not a car, to me, that you do anything but take spirited drives in. That's the point. Someday I will own something like an Elise. But I can't justify spending 500-700 a month on car payments, extra insurance, extra maintenance... just to have a few hours of fun on the weekend. That money could go to things like vacations, which would probably be more rewarding! So, is the 911 something that will thrill me on the way to work (my commute is all twisty backroads), make me smile on every corner taken, and when I do have time for a spirited drive move me like a pure sports car should? If it can do all those things, work in the snow, and be reliable.... I have found my next car.

mkiv, i like your brain, man! cheers to your laissez-faire 911 doctrine

How does the 4S/996 fare on steep entrances, speed bumps, etc.? I scraped my NSX everywhere, my C5 Z06 scraped the black plastic air dam piece all the time. C6 is even worse... although I don't know if I've ever scraped the bumpers themselves on either car. Horrible sound either way, and I'm always on the look out for dips and such on the road with the C6.

I have scraped the front, never the rear. But it is fairly uncommon to do so. Of course, I have to add that my suspension is stock...

Stock too and it scrapes unless I enter my driveway at an angle.

I looked at an '02 with 33k miles. Dealer wanted $54,900! Crazy. The interior was in HORRIBLE shape. Leather on wheel was pitted badly, scratches all over the center console, e-brake handle pitted leather, burn mark on the center console. Really sad to see in a car with such few miles. Does the leather on the steering wheel usually hold up well? I could not believe how worn it looked. I will test drive it anyway, to get a feel for the car. After all, that's what makes or breaks it for me.

What's that car Atric Silver in Connecticut? Sound similar to the one I looked at.

Nope, black on tan.

$55k is crazy for an 02 with 33k miles. Is this a C4S? I'm trying to sell my 03 C4S. 20k miles, only asking $52k.

That's nice, but you shouldn't advertise on Rennlist unless you are a paying member!!