My brutally honest opinions from a test drive

2002 C4S, 33,000 miles Feels like it has NO power in comparison to my C6, but in the twisties it does feel good. The steering was very good, if not a little on the light side. I'm sure that could be fixed with some alignment adjustments. The seats, while seemingly flat-backed (like the Supras or Corvettes) actually held me pretty damn good in the corners. Didn't get to explore its handling much, as a salesman was with me in the car. What I didn't like? The sound. Maybe I need to hear one with an exhaust. It wasn't the most charming engine note I've heard. It was also very quiet. I really had to listen to rev match downshifts. Shifter was a bit long and sloppy, but better than the M3. Would really benefit from a short shifter, I'd imagine. Of course, this is coming from someone with a Callaway short shifter in a C6, which to me is pretty close to perfection. The interior was nice, although somewhat dated. It seems more solid than the 997 interior though. Materials were good and it was completely rattle free. Driving position, surprisingly, felt pretty high. from just looking out the windshield, you get the impression you're sitting in an average height car. The steering wheel position and dashboard does give you some sports car feel, however. The only thing I hated was the clutch. For a car of this little power, this supposedly hydraulic-assisted clutch was VERY heavy. The Vette clutch is feather light in comparison, a huge difference, and I almost pushed the Vette clutch through the floorboard when I got back into it. Overall, a nice ride. I'm not yet convinced, but overall it was positive.

good to hear your opinion, I always appreciate an opinion from someone thats new to Porsche and 911's.

Coming from a torque monster like a Corvette, I imagine the 996 would feel gutless in comparison. The 996 comes into it's own above 5000rpms, and I think it sounds great - that's when it starts howling and it sends chills up my spine. It's certainly a fast car, but a vette has more power. I think you would need to drive one on for a good amount of time with no salesman in the car with you, on a good road, to really appreciate it. The 996 is about the whole package - brakes/steering/handling/acceleration/topspeed/comfort - it does all those things very well, but certain cars will beat it in certain categories.

has got to be the most off-base review i've ever read about the 996 esp since i've had seat time in both other cars mentioned to each his own

Good advice. You might just not be a Porsche guy, but you need to give it a real chance before you decide.

Nope- you are right. Those flat 6s sound like crap compared to any chevy. Thanks for sharing your interesting comparison.

I went from a 420hp fox body Saleen Mustang to my 996. The 996 sounded terrible and felt underpowered...mine is a tip. I added mufflers, headers, RSS plenum, and a EVO cold air induction system. It cost less than $3,000.(some parts were used), gave it a true sports car sound (way better than my 331 stroker with a big cam & Flowmasters), and knocked 1.24 seconds off my 0-60 time. I'll never go back.

Yea, when you pull up in a parking lot it's a Porsche! Everyone has seen a C what?

996 C4S are one of the most beautiful Porsche ever but is a bit heavy. Maybe you need a more aggressive version of the 911 like a turbo or a Gt.

While not everyone may agree, I am always interested to hear an opinion from someone outside of the P-car scene. I have also been thinking of test driving one of the latest 'vettes. I am not interested in ownership, but am just curious. Here is my $.02 for what it is worth. Yeah. Legislation more than anything else, especially in Europe (a market far more important for Porsche than it is for the 'vette), has really toned down the stock sound of the 911. You should try one with Porsche Sport Exhaust (aka. PSE). Evryone has there own preferences, but it seems that the rennlist concensus is that PSE is the best sounding. A short shift kit is one of the first modifications many 996 owners make. Many consider it the best bang for the buck mod. The difference between the highest setting and the lowest is pretty extreme in my opinion. Perhaps you didn't have the seat at its lowest setting. I am not surprised by this. You will never know how the previous owner abused the clutch. I purchased my 992 used with 15K miles on it. At 27K I had a new clutch put in, because I was having other work done anyway and the dealer though it was close to the wear limit. WOW! what a difference. The pedal was extremely light with the new clutch installed. If the previous owner was tough on the clutch, 33K miles may mean it simply needs to be replaced.

Yup you're correct...B&M shifter, Bilstein PSS9 coilovers, and the Fabspeed exhaust all address your comments on my 02.

i went from an 02 Z06 to an 02 C4S. Previous to that, I also had a 95 & 94 vette. I agree with most of what you said. No p-car will accerate like a vette (except a turbo) and yes the C4S clutch is very heavy, but you get used to it. I agree the C4S does need a sport exhaust, that will probably my first mod. The porsche is more fun to drive, has a better interior and is better built not to mention better looking. They are both great cars, you can't go wrong with either. In a perfect world I would own both. I am considering picking up a C6 but I will definitely keep the C4S.

For the things you're looking for, a C4S might not cut it, unless you mod.

You got that right. I have had both cars and you attract more attention in a Porsche 996. Most of us did not buy a Porsche for the attention, but it is a nice bonus. Between the excellant handling, great acceleration (especially the twin turbo) and comfort I think it is all around one of the best sports cars for the money. Yes I have driven Ferarri's, Lambro's and several others which are impressive, but you really would not want to drive them as daily drivers due to reliability and other issues. There is no substitute!

I'd honestly think twice about the C6. While it's a good car and there are a lot of improvements from the C5, they took out the soul and the fun. It somehow feels very antiseptic, for lack of a better word.

I'd be interested to hear what of my review was off-base.

I'm pretty picky about my exhaust sound. My NSX had a wonderful sound. As did the stock titanium Z06 exhaust.

This makes me want to share my funny anecdote from this evening. I'm driving in the parking lot of the local mall with quite a bit of traffic. People walking about in all directions. I've got the windows down enjoying the air and the sound of the PSE, barely off idle and someone yells "slow down." I guess it really does just sound fast. A few counter points. You are used to having 6-7ltrs hanging out near your front axle, any rear engined car will feel light on the frontend in comparison. That's the nature of the beast. Tuning that out would kind of defeat the whole purpose of moving to rear-engine setup. The C4S is one of the more limp wristed models for power comparisons, being the heaviest without any real extra oomph to accompany the go fast good looks. I'm not sure what you are looking for in driving position. "Sports car feel," sounds like another term for "uncomfortable, half-lying down while driving" position. The cars have a pretty decently weighted clutch, nothing like some of the older quad pumping Audis, but not the modulation only style of most new cars.

mkiv808, I think some of your observations may only be applicable to the specific C4S that you drove. Go drive another C4S and see if your opinions still hold. The example that you drove may not have been properly maintained or serviced. When I started 911 shopping I drove two '03 911's on the same day and they were as different as night and day. If I had formed my opinions only from the first 911 I drove that day, I would not own one today. The second car was so much better, I almost bought it. But I'm glad I waited and found the C4S that I eventually bought.

Rob- did they replace more than the friction plate? Mine is heavy too, but I thought that was normal. Can be a pain in traffic (but I won't stop using it as a DD!!!!)

From what I understand the clutch replacement kit includes the clutch plate and pressure plate, but not the flywheel as it has a much much longer life.

the kit is a disc pressure plate and a release bearing flywheel is anohter 1000 mkiv808, i work on and drive porsches all day and to be honest I feel the same way as you do on most issues and its why I cant bring myself to buy one. The simple truth is its just not fast enough for me, even at turbo levels. I would highly recmend driving a turbo though it will have alot more of the felling you are looking for coming from a vette

After 5 Vettes over 24 years I got my first 996 cab in 99 which I still own. I do miss the low end torque of the big V8 but the P car is much more fun to drive. The Vette turning radius is a real killer. The Vette handled great but seemed to take your full attention to the point of being tiresome. The P-car is like it knows what you want and just dances down the road. YMMV

A turbo is not fast enough for you? Holy cow.

Obviously you know nothing. The 4S is just as powerfull as any other model 996 and the 996 Targa is the heavy weight out of the na engined 996 model. 0-62 times are .1 second apart from the C2. Calling it limp wristed is insulting.

There are more ways to make a car go faster than pure HP. C4S has better brakes, lower suspension, and wider stance. You may argue that the wider stance, wider body also make C4S go slower, but that's really only critical when you are talking max top speed when aerodynamics will matter the most when all else are about equivalent. The proof is in the Porsche official Nurburgring lap times: 996 C4S: 8 minutes, 16 seconds 996 C2: 8 minutes, 20 seconds Here's the source: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...arrera_4s.html According to Porsche, the extra grip and stronger braking of the C4S give it a Nurburgring lap time of 8min 16sec, or four seconds quicker than the Carrera 2. The suggestion is that the Turbo-look isn't just for show and makes the C4S a better proposition for track days.... I guess if your track day includes gunning for maximum top speed (you'd have to be running your track days on an empty air field or Bonneville Salt Flats), you could call C4S limp-wristed since its top speed is @ 2 mph lower than the C2. Otherwise, it'd be hard to imagine C4S as a limp-wristed model since in the hands of Walter Rohrl the C4S beats C2 around The 'Ring....

That's 0.12% difference by my calculation. I wouldn't say it's limp-wristed but I also wouldn't say it's something to boast about. A slightly tired Walter could account for that difference. The Porsche marketing machine makes a negligible difference into a reason to spend more $$. It must work. It is a beautiful car and as we all know the C4S cab was the best selling 996.

Hmm...I think you had it right the first time: 0.8%, not 0.12% difference. 4 seconds divided by 500 seconds (8 minutes 20 sec) times 100%. Anyone who races 6 hours, 12-hours events? I haven't, but I would venture that a 4-second advantage per 8-minute-plus lap is huge, and would actually be something to boast about if you could gain that amount of improvement. In a 12-hour event at Nurburgring, for example, the C4S will beat the C2 by almost 6 minutes. That would still be only 0.8%, but in racing that would be a whopping margin, don't you think? I have read the advantage of 997 GT3 over 996 GT3 of 2-3 seconds per lap on Infineon described by a race driver as a difference that is impossible to overcome in competition. (I paraphrase. You can find the exact adjective in the recent Excellence Mag with the yellow GT3 on cover.) But that's racing. In real life, the bottom line is: to call C4S wimpier than C2 because it's wider and heavier and with the same powerplant would be missing the attributes like brakes and wider stance that can make the C4S faster than a C2.

Whoa, slowdown there, compared to the 40th (x51), x51, turbo, gt2, gt3 etc the C4S is heavier with no additional power. Sure, the targa might be more of a porker, hence I didn't say the C4S was the slowest although MSN actually lists it as being lighter than the C4S. I used '02 as a yr for comparison: C4S 3241 C2 2910 targa 3114 c2 cab 3197 Sorry, but I can tell when I'm carrying an additional 300lbs around. I've driven them back to back and it does feel slower. Try not to personalize my comments. My limp wristed comment was only in relation to power, not brakes, wide fenders etc. Andrew

2002 C4S, 33,000 miles Feels like it has NO power in comparison to my C6, but in the twisties it does feel good. I believe that you captured the essence of the differances between the two cars in your initial observation, and what you state is true. The C6 weighs less than a 996 C4S, and the C6 has 40% more torque than a C4S. So it doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that the C6 will be a lot quicker, especially of you define quick as straight line speed. Your other observation is that the C4S feels good in the twisties. To me that's the essence of what any P car offers. The other primary differance between the cars is the quality of the materials used in the inerior, and the interior and exterior fit and finish. In the final analysis you must do an assessment of yourself, and ascertain what is most important to you in a car: things like styling, quality, power, handling, price, value, fit and finish, warranty, and place a value on them. This may help you to determine which is the better car for you. Although the purchase of a sports car is largely an emotional decision, making certain that you have the right sports car should be a rational decision. Since I don't have the time to track my car, and since I don't intend to explore the power limits of my car on public roads, a Porsche was the easy decision for me. It's a car that you can enjoy on the public roads without flagrantly disregarding posted speed limits. For the right owner, a Porsche will put a smile on his face just when he's routinely driving a road because of the way the car feels and responds to a driver's inputs. It's difficult to put into words, but it's something that almost every Porsche owner understands and appreciates.

Anyone one who's been on any timed track would know that 4 seconds is a huge difference.

I can agree with this.

You're correct. So was I the 1st time. The OP has the right approach driving the cars he's interested in rather than relying on magazine or marketing data. With used cars that data is even more meaningless. The C4S is a heavy beast & AWD isn't for everyone. I didn't care for it. I much preferred the rwd C2. To me the C4S is a beauty but not a good value.