Oil For 996

Just got a '99 996 and have a oil ?? My Porsche doctor prescribed 0W40 for this car. I have a 964 race car and run Mobile 15W50. This is also recommended in the 996 manual for the temperature conditions it's expected to see. I've heard comments on the 997 that recommends the 0W40. Does this hold true for the 996 also or is my "tried and true" 15W50 just as good? This car will not be a DE car. Just on the highway. Also, what do you guys recommend to take the oil canister off without damaging it...anything I can buy at NAPA or Advance?

Stick with the 15W50. Porscje DOES NOT recommend ANY oil. They simply list the oils as "approved" after an oil company has spend lot of money to get on the list. 0W40 is only one of dozens of oils on this list. Many companies are opting out of the "pay to be approved" game in recent years. Stick with what works......not what leaks, burns and does not protect.

Pat056, Welcome. If you are a new owner I would suggest that you do a search on this forum for oil and/or 0w40 or 15w50. To say this is a hotly debated topic is an understatement. There are many passionately contested threads on what the correct and/or appropriate oil is. I am sure someone will post the current oils approved by Porsche. Some individuals have some very strong thoughts that 15w50 is correct (1999Porsche911 is in this camp) while others make some very compelling arguments that 0w40 is the proper weight. You will need to make your own decision on what you want to use. If you want to be 2 for 2 on hot topics ask about using non N spec tires next As for the removal of the canister. Porsche makes a huge socket that goes on it to remove it for about $10 (which is what I have always used) others have reported using various oil "filter" wrenches to remove it. It is a very thick composite material that is not materially damaged easily.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong! I just got done posting this in another thread. 0W-40 is approved and recommended by Porsche, alternatively, they may also use 5W-40 (in both cases, fully synthetic, no blends). They didn't just make this up. If you use a heavier weight oil, such as 15W-50, you actually risk damaging the engine. This comes not only from Porsche but was also supported by my mechanic - a Porsche expert and the chief mechanic for a Ruf race team.

This shall be fun to follow

Nah. At least not from my standpoint. I've said my $.02 and I'm done.

There is no official recommendation of any oil from Porsche. They do not even approve 5W30. All those engines that came from the factory with 15W50 have blown up. Keep posting and I'll keep pointing out your incorrect statements. Stop relying on conscensus as it is most always wrong. The world used to be flat too. The 1970's was the beginning of the next ice age. Global warming will destroy all humans in the next decade. The dow will hit 20,000 in 2001. All these things, plus more are the consensus. Are they correct? I mean, the greatest minds in the world say so, so you should believe them, shouldn't you?

Advance sells the AmPro 74/76mm oil filter socket.

Note to J-RAD... So the 0-W40 is the oil of choice for the 996 just like the 997? Also, should my 964 race car be running 0-W40 or is this just for the water cooled? I went through a similar issue with my 2002 M3 that had to run 0-W60 that could ONLY be gotten through Castrol, at the dealer, for $15/gt.. This was required to keep my warranty...I can't remember specifically why, I just did it.

Thanks for the input from all. I'm not excatly sure which way to go, except on the filter socket (thanks Doug). I do agree with you, bet. I'm glad I stuck with something easy and not really hard like what type of beer I should drink while changing my oil Thanks for my welcome to Rennlist...knowledge is power!!!

That's easy....a German Beer

You're arguing semantics. Call you local dealership and ask them. When they tell you 0-W40, fully synthetic, that is their recommendation (and they speak on behalf of Porsche). No one asked that you like it. And do you ever wonder why there is a Mobil 1 sticker under your hood? Keep posting and I'll correct yours as well. Actually, I won't...if you want to throw 15W-50 in your car, knock yourself out. I'll be sticking to the 0W-40.

According to the two dealerships and two Porsche performance shops I spoke with in my area, 0W-40 should be used in the 996, as well as with some other later models (ex. Boxster). The 964 is a bit different. I don't know the recommendation there (ex., I don't recall what I used on my SC off hand but it was not 0W-40). In other words, other models, particularly earlier ones, may use different weights. According to my mechanic, the change is really the result of newer technology (specifically Vario-Cam) and the tighter tolerances of today's engines. He basically told me that using higher weight oils, particularly for the track, is really carry over thinking from an old school mindset that no longer applies (and as I mentioned, could be potentially harmful in today's engines).

Porsche's "approved oil" list covers ALL Porsches from 1984 on. So, anyone who blindly uses the argument that Porsche knows best when it comes to oils, MUST use only those oils on the approved list. Under no circumstances are you to use your own experience and knowledge to even consider another oil, such as a 15W50 that you have successfully used for 20 years and was often the factory fill. DO NOT follow your manual which states 15W50 in the early 996's and previous year cars. Also, NEVER change your oil more frequently than the 20,000 miles which Porsche suggest. You are fooling yourself to think that you are smarter than Porsche. It doesn't matter how many leaks you have or how much oil you burn or how many engines you blowup....stick with Porsche's approved list and sleep well.

I will refrain from making any comment...

So Mobil 1 0/40, 5/40, and 5/50 are cool?

5W/50 is recommended in the Cayenne. I use it sometimes to top up my 02 C4S.

I do not see 50 anywhere on the list, just 0W-40 and 5W-40 FWIW I run Mobil 1 5W-40 for turbo diesel trucks (Delvac) and change at 7,250 miles. It can be purchased for ~$23 a gallon at Walmart.

Clean your glasses.

Ah! I see it now!

>>So Mobil 1 0/40, 5/40, and 5/50 are cool?<< Yes, but which one is better ?

so why did rennlist people "settle" on 0/40 v. 5/40 or 5/50?

For me, the answer is simply that it's what my mechanic as well as a couple other shops, including the local dealerships, recommended.

Me too. Mechanic recommendaton + the logical explanation in the Excellence writeup a couple months back = much more confidence than betting my engine on the outcome of an internet bunfight among perfect strangers.

You can find the most recent approved oil list for the 964 and 996 HERE .

Sounds pretty straight forward to me. 0W40, 5W40, 5W50 - full synthetic. Intervals seem a bit long, twice per year seems sensible. Thanks for posting this question. I was going to do it, but I had heard there is controversy. Don't know why though. Is someone saying that the 0 weight oils leak out of 996 engines ? I know synthetics leak out of the air cooled cars, but these are ENTIRELY different animals. Also...If someone here is arguing that they use 15W50 because that's what they ran succesfully in their air cooled 964, then that person (careful how I say this now - I don't want to offend anyone) is an idiot.

I�m not sure why there is any debate. Is there not definitive evidence of which oil is better for a peculiar engine for most driving conditions? How big is the difference between 0W40 & 15W50 oil anyway? Is it significant enough that damage could occur just from using one rather than the other? Isn�t the change interval infinitely more important? Or is it so much fun that people just can�t resist?

People, this is science, not religion. Aside from running your own tests with multiple oils and multiple vehicles, you can learn a lot from a Google search. BUT: 1) you have to put very low confidence on tests done by anyone with a financial interest in the outcome. 2) completely ignore single point of information anecdotes (including my mechanic says, or Taxi runs for 3 million miles on maple syrup) 3) try to find corroboration among the few remaining tests. Now, somebody else do it, it is too much like work for me.

That is correct sir! (although vehicle is spelled wrong ) The arguments do provide some entertainment.

Not spelled wrong any more!

1)Pick an oil from the approved list. 2) Avoid conjecture, opinion and certain peoples advice.

Somebody should inform PCNA that they left off the negative sign on the (25 [degrees]C) on page 2 of the 2/06 Technical Bulletin. That'll drive the German engineers crazy...

Yeah, what he said! Especially since everyone KNOWS that 0W-40 is the way to go!!!

Ben, Here is what several experts have stated; Two experts (April 2007 issue of Excellence Magazine) addressed aspects of the 0W-40 "oil" topic in the following manner. Both technical experts claim that newer Porsches require the thinner oil to ensure proper VarioCam function. On page 34 a reader asks a question about using 10W-40 oil (for a Boxster) in Florida vs Mobil 0W-40. He is concerned about using the 0W-40 because 10W-30 or 10W-40 is a "more common fill" in Florida (he also asks about break-in). The response from the Excellence technical expert was as follows. "Those who suggest higher viscosity oils usually don't understand the whole problem. Oil in engines is no longer just a lubricant. It is also a coolant for the engine as well as a hydralic control fluid for all of the things like VarioCam Plus, hydraulic lifters, and similar systems. If the oil is too high a viscosity, it can affect the way those circuits operate. The 2001 996 Turbo was the first Porsche to use the VarioCam Plus technology and a friend who works as a dealer technician told me that one of their technicians spend the whole day trying to diagnose a running problem caused by an owner who hadn't trusted Porsches factory fill and thus changed his oil to SAE 20W-50. The heavier oil totally confused the VarioCam plus system and the engine ran poorly. All of these devices have been designed to run with the SAE 0W-40 oils or other oils that Porsche recommends. Use only those oils recommended in your owners manual - SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40, or SAE 5W-50. Porsche is so sure about this decision that it came out with a bulletin recommending these oils for all of its older models as well." Now I know that is just one "experts" opinion. However, on page 169 Porsche tech expert Jim Pasha dedicates his entire "Tech Forum" article (6 pages worth) to "Oil". I'm not going to type in all 6 pages of material but I will quote a few short pieces of what Jim reports in his column (he covers a lot of ground in his article). "Why does Porsche specify such a low lower viscosity rating? The answer comes in two parts. First, in a quest for better fuel economy and longer engine life, Porsche engineers use bearing and cylinder-wall clearances far tighter than what they used previously. This creates less internal drag on components, and lighter oil is more compatible with tight tolerances." He also says; "In the latest Porsches, which use 0W-40, the thinner oil is critical to delicate systems that use motor oil as a hydralic activator. VarioCam Plus uses tiny "shafts" of oil created under high pressure to help the system alter valve timing. It is a trick system but it REQUIRES thin oil to work properly Finally here is what Porsche says on the matter; http://www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf Remember, your car does have Variocam Plus.

+1000000000000 what's the smart thing to do? go with some internet yahoo's "expert" OPINION or with something APPROVED?

Some possible disadvantages of Mobil 1 0W-40 (which I use now, but will reconsider next change) http://mercedesshop.com/shopforum/sh...d.php?t=184362 I love my car, but Porsche also "approved" the 996 RMS design, and "approved" the decision not to support my #@$%! Nav system, just to rant on a couple of things.

If you want to put a 5W-60 in your car (the best performing oil in that test) have at it. Good luck with your variocam plus......... BTW, here is what the guys at Amsoil say about the kind of testing done in your article... "At a recent trade show we were at one of these aftermarket oil additive companies was there with a machine that demonstrated how their additive reduced friction. It was a motor with rotating solid steel disc secured to the motor shaft and a torque meter with a flat piece of steel mounted on the torque arm. They put every type of oil on the market, one by one, on the machine & pressed hard on the torque meter and at about 20-40 lb-ft torque the torque arm would stall the motor....that is until they cleaned it off and tried their (chlorinated) aftermarket oil additive on the bearing & ran the test. People were amazed as the meter peaked out at 140 lb-ft. torque and still didn't stall the motor. We knew what was happening but many unsuspecting consumers were eating it up and standing in line to buy the additive. The next day we showed up with some Head & Shoulders Shampoo disguised in an oil bottle & had the aftermarket oil additive people try it on their test machine. The operator was amazed as the motor just barely stalled at 140 lb-ft. The operator says that's pretty good stuff, what is it? We said Head & Shoulders Shampoo. He was quite embarrassed to say the least. Head & Shoulders has high levels of high potency ZINC in it that attaches itself to ferrous metals. Coke soft drink will do exactly the same thing. ZINC reduces friction and provides anti-wear protection and is present in most motor oils at a much reduced level. Now, would you put Head & Shoulders in your engine? Additionally, the test machine was measuring EXTREME PRESSURE. Motor oils do not have extreme pressure (EP) additives blended in like gear lubes do nor do they need extreme pressure additives. Their is absolutely no need for EP additives in a motor oil. A gear lube would not stall the motor as easily because gear lubes have high levels of Extreme Pressure additives blended in, but do you think they would test their aftermarket oil additive against gear lubes? Instead, they use motor oil and are are comparing apples to oranges and tricking people into buying their additive. "

OMG. the self professed expert on this subject is infiltrating the gt3 board

I'm a bit confused Ray, if I need 0W oil to work in my 996, why does Porsche approve 5W? Do you have a link to how the "plus" part of the variocam works (I know how the variocam works, and oil choice would have no effect on that function)? Besides, the link I provided was just a tidbit of information, not "my" test. I am looking for information, and do not have a preconceived bias.

If you are refering to 1999Porsche911, I believe he owns a GT3. He has his opinion and there is no reason he should not be able to express it.

For those interested, there is a better thread discussing oil here: Rennlist Discussion Forums > Water Cooled Technical Discussion Areas > 996 GT2/GT3 Forum Interesting article on oil This has been discussed to death already, but obviously not to a clear conclusion. Also, anyone wanting a little more info on variocam plus: http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/VarioCamPlus.htm the article is not very technical, but it was all I could find.

The magazine (Street Commodores) responsible for the article linked at from the MB forum (to their credit) published a retraction stating they had no idea what they were talking about when it came to testing motor oils. I don't know what the lead times are for the magazine but the fallacy of their testing was pointed out to them in May of 2006.

Yes, I saw that in the MB thread too. It seems to boil down to: is Mobil 0W-40 so heavily modified with polymers that it may cause problems at higher engine temps? Or is the cold low viscosity more important for engine startup protection, especially in colder climates? Are the differences big enough to matter at all? After all this I have no freakin' clue. And how do you make a living in the Berkshires, anyway (just jealous, it is beautiful there).

I never said you need 0W. I only said that it seems prudent to use one of the oils on Porsche's list. I am not (and have never claimed to be) an oil expert of any type. However I continually read info (like the information in Excellence) written by Porsche experts that leads me to believe that I should continue to use one of the oils on that list. You can believe (as some do) that Porsche's list is nothing more than marketing hype. That these companies paid big bucks to Porsche to have them use their oil. Futhermore, if you believe that you'd also have to believe that Porsche knows there are better oils, but does not recommend them because those companies won't give them $$. Seems silly to me. Why would Porsche knowingly put their engines (and their reputation) at risk for some marketing funds? Why would oil manufacturers pay a ton of money to a low volume producer like Porsche? They'd sell so much more oil as the official oil of Toyota. Here are several Variocam plus articles. These articles claim the system is actuated by an electro-hydralic control valve. One describes this operation as follows; "VarioCam Plus positions the camshaft over the central lifter and with oil pressure raises the center tappet above the outer cup." I am not an engineer, but oil does appear to be used to make this system function http://www.porscheengineering.com/fi...letype=default http://www.porsche.com/kbase.aspx?po...plus&lang=none http://usuarios.lycos.es/cporschecat.../varicamen.htm http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...-plus-in-depth

Yup, Porsche gets big bucks from each of the oil compnaies on it's approved list...In fact, since they sell almost 100,00 cars per year, it could amount to a bucket load of money!!! Money that would certainly offset any potential hit to their reputation!! Pure Genius at work.....

The compromise Porsche and other auto manufacturers make is to meet economy standards and other EPA and similar regulatory rules. They must increase fuel economy. They must reduce the frequency of oil changes. They must reduce the frequency of coolant changes. etc. etc. This is a noble step to take as far as Mother Earth is concerned, but not necessarily the best compromise for the good of your engine.

Thanks for the articles Ray, I will study them which I get a chance.

Why would Porsche have a global standard for it's lubricants if it is trying to impress the EPA? That is flawed logic (and wrong).

The EPA is far less demanding than the EU. THINK before you attack!

If a country or region specific regulation was a major consideration then Porsche would list an oil brand and/or viscosity as EU, North American or country/region specific. Everything you listed is part of the equation when engineering an engine but to think environmental regulations override all other parameters of design is absurd.

the TSB does list oils based on geographic area.

That was kinda my point although I could have worded things a little better. You can't say that the main factor for a specific brand or viscosity of oil to be on the approved list is because of a specific EU or EPA regulation when the oil is listed as approved worldwide. Porsche has in the past released TSBs for country specific oil problems (carbon formation).

Could also be just what's for-sale in different places.

I agree that is probably the most likely reason.

We should discuss this more often...... I'm not sure the topic gets enough "air time".......

The geographic listings are because of availability. This topic is amusing...clearly there are opinions and there are facts...I'll stick with the facts. And the facts are that 996/997 engines perform best with a 0/5w40 motor oil. That's all folks!

It's interesting for us new guys. I never understood why there would be controversy. Porsche designs, engineers, test and builds the motors. Surely they know which oil is best. Turns ot the controversy is based on a paranoid conspiricy theory. I think it's highly doubtful that the marginal environmental benefits would drive Porsche to recomend an oil they know is inferior. I also think it's highly probable that the lightweight oils are necessary to properly operate the varioram plus valve train. I say probable because some of the greatest automotive engineers in the world who designed the system to work that way say that they did - I mean where's the controversy? It's what's called a no-brainer I'll admit it's suspicous that Porsche recomends the lightweight oils for the air cooled cars back to 1984. Those were 20W50 engines up until now weren't they. Nevertheless., it never gets even close to minus 25C here, so I'll stick to 5W50 (if I can find it) and change it once in the spring and once in the fall. There, now I can happily ignore very other oil thread that shows up here - although I won't because I like arguing too!

It was dependent upon the specific brand of oil. Back in 1992 one of the oils Porsche was recommending for all season use of the 964 in North America was 5w-30 Mobil 1 (the synthetic version). They made the same recommendation for the same weight of Valvoline "High Performance" but Quaker State of the same viscosity was only recommended for winter use. There were some 15w-50 and even a 20w-20.

If you check the specs...HTHS ratings are what Porsche are concerned with...HTHS is the high temp/high shear rating. Porsche require a min rating of 3.5. Some oils, even thought they may share the same viscosity, such as 5w40, will have a higher HTHS. It is but one criteria for an oil to be on the approved list, there are many others of course.

I see that more and more people who used to push the 0W40 are slowly and quietly starting to push the 5W40. Funny stuff. Such conviction. Some of you should read your own posts which state things like "I would never use anything other than Mobil 0W40". Don't get me wrong, it's refreshing that more of you are actually thinking about what oil you use and finding that 0W40 might not be the miracle oil it is marketed to be. Maybe some of you are just getting tired of leaking and burning oil and the sloppy variocam operation. Maybe someday, more of you will be pouring in some 5W50 or 15W50.