996 last of Porsche styling mystique?

Porsche styling has always captivated me with an unexplanable element that left a positive impression on me that is hard to describe. This has gone on since the early '60s and may have peaked with the 996 which I thought was the most awsome street Porsche ever. Am I the only one that can't warm up to the 997? I have looked at them in the showroom and the appeal is a shiny brand new car...same appeal that a brand new Hyundai or Kia or Chevrolet has. There is nothing there that screams "PORSCHE" to me, it's like the magical styling that had lured me to become a happy buyer is absent. They have the look of a Mazda Something or a culmination of several bits and pieces of the hundreds of car models out there. It's like all the stylists energy was expended on the 996 and when a facelift was needed in the 997 there was nothing unique left to give. Am I alone? Makes my 996 Cab look better the longer I have it. What do you guys think?

If you are feeling frisky go say that in the 993 forum

I too cannot appreciate the 997 design.

I hated the 996 when I first saw one. I couldn't believe they changed the 911's styling, and I was very dissapointed. After a while, I began realizing that I was just biased because I guess I never wanted Porsche to change what I thought was already perfect. Eventually, I began lusting after them just like every other 911. Change isn't a bad thing, and the 996 slowly became beautiful to my formally biased eyes. I like the 997's looks even better, and I will own a 997S one day.

I'm hearin ya... Check out the picture of the '08 Turbo Cab... http://euroautoforums.com/forums/ind...t=0&#entry4633 To me, the black car has more of a Japanese flair. I know exactly the "mystique" you're referring to. I've owned several of the 911 line of cars in my life (eight?), and that black car is the first I've seen that has almost zero mystique to it. My theory...(and bear in mind, this is the opinion of an "over-the-hill" hehe 48 years old man), Porsche doesn't really care what I think about mystique, they're goin' after the 20's and 30's age group. That's the age group that is Porsche's future. Too young to remember the "magic" of the design. What's more important to Porsche now seems to be to get "closer to the pack" in design...kind of the same phenomina (sp?) that american car designers followed japanese and german designs in the '90's. Heck, it got hard there for awhile to tell what country ANY car was made in, they just all looked alike. Porsche is goin' after the market, and, in doing so, we're loosing something magical...emotional. As I said in another post, the '08 cab bears so little resemblence to the 911, that, in my mind anyway... It's now official...the '08 cab marks the end of an era. Porsche has officially declared the 911 mystique now a thing of the past. This car cannot be referred to as a 911 at all....at least in the sense of that "undefinable mystique" in looks. Character is what we're talkin' about. They're becoming emotionless. fwiw...I just bought an '80 MGB. That car has more character, in spades, than the latest Porsche models. And that's coming from a life-long, 40 year worshiper of Porsche, precisely for the unique character they've always had, in relation to other marques..

never liked the 996...and I still bought one.....the 997 went back to their roots...round headlights!! remember Jaguar in the 80's....square box with square head and tailligths...nearly killed the already suffocating brand....they went back to round shapes.."triangle taillights and round headlight....and they still exist!! Sometimes going back to the original design isn't a bad thing!! I admit they could have designed the 997 with oval headlight more like the carrera GT...just my 2cnts.... just to clarify...I LOVE MY 996!! but even more after the 2 conversion....

I agree, mostly. Until the 993, I never really loved the ancient styling of the previous models. To me, the 993 smoothed over all the rough 60's edges and made the car look like it belonged in the 90's. The 996, although simpler and rounder, also made me want one. Sleek and modern, yet a serious sports car (which is why I always liked Porsche to begin with)! To me, the 997 is the 968 of the 911 line. Porsche got a ton of flack for having odd headlights, so the scrambled and came up with the 997 - round headlights and all. Like the 968 is really a 944 with improved looks and handling, so the 997 is really a 996--with "improved" looks and handling. A "true" 911 looks like an antique. Not that there's anything wrong with that! But I don't want to drive an antique car! Make sense? It's early!

I also can't get too excited about the 997. Don't get me wrong it's a great looking car, but I don't feel it looks any better than my C4S. Actually, I think few cars out there look better than a C4S, but that is just me I'm especially bummed about the 997 turbo. I had had a half baked plan to upgrade to a 997 turbo for my 40th birthday in a few years if I could convince my wife, but I really don't like the way it looks... they've made it so "busy" and to me it does not have the sleek and massively aggressive looks of a 993 or 996 turbo.

Here's the personal web site of Pinky Lai, the guy who designed the 996, and you can see some of his concept sketches for the car: <http://www.designnstyling.com/> IMHO, the 996 is a historically important Porsche, even if too many were sold to ever make it collectible. The designer's challenge was to pay tribute to the line while reimagining it the future (so it wouldn't die). He had to reduce the 911 concept to its essence as a sort of fresh starting point for that future. I think that basic purity is what appeals to me about it. I actually believe that the 993 really was the last of the classic 911s, but the 996 represented a promise by Porsche that it would't turn its back on the formula no matter what the future brought.

I like the both 996 and 997 styling. My problem with 997 is the handling. IMO they went over the top, made it civilized for the luxury buyer. Doesn't feel like a 911 any more.

Although I like the headlights of pre 996 911's there is something about the 997 that looks forced. Just doen't seem to work as well as the older 911's. The interior is a bit cheesey, but overall I like the changes.

The 997 looks good to me.

I like all 911s of all years, they all have their flaws and virtues...

I'll come over and make this thread a little frisky There are many that would say the 996 looks the most DIFFERENT from any other 911. If you look at the silouhette, the headlights, etc... all 911 variants, including the 997, share certain characteristics. The curvy hips, the bug-eye headlights, etc. The 996 doesnt have those attributes to the same extent. I dont dislike the way the 996 looks....I personally would prefer the C4S or TT to the other variants....but I dont have anything negative to say about the standard 996. Just a little surprised when I read this post, because many (including very happy 996 owners) would probably say that the 997 is (asthetically) a move BACK to old 911 looks.

Guys, reading through this thread, I'm reminded of the overwhelming negative response that came about at the debut of the 996 back in 98/99. And it wasn't just the syling that had Porsche rocked back on it's heels. The last of an air cooled, hand built icon was gone. The raw, visceral feel so characteristic of the Porsche legend went by the wayside. If you've never driven a 993 or previous model, then you have no idea what I'm speaking of. It's interesting to hear comments that the 997 styling just doesn't cut it. Because the 997 is supposedly Porsche's answer to the critics of the 996 that have complained all along that Porsche "took all the lines out of the car," namely, out of the 993. Coming from a 993, my first experience into a 996 was extremely "underwhelming" and for the first time ever in a Porsche, I felt as if I had just stepped into a Japanese import with a Porsche crest on the hood. Once again, if you've never driven an older model Porsche, then I suggest you take the time to do so (say a 964 or 993 Turbo). I think you'd find the whole experience to be eye popping. And if you think that going from a 996 to a 997 is like stepping into a Japanese import, wait until you experience the difference between the last of the air cooled, hand built jobs and your 996. For what it's worth... just some added some perspective. Cheers

Looking at the photos of the silver 993 and 997, I do think Porsche got the headlights right, which probably is good for the die-hard 911 lover. I thank the 993, and the 997, for making a 996 so affordable now!!

I do like the 997 styling (it's kind of a 993 and 996 have babies sort of look). However, I believe that it was a small mis-step for Porsche to go with a back to the future look. I would have liked to have seen the design that Porsche would have come up with had they continued to evolve the 996 rather than take it backwards with 993 styling cues. I'd bet that when the 998 comes out it will move forward again in the evolution of the look.

I bet when the 998 comes out, it will be MORE like the 993! Look at all the retro muscle cars coming out. Retro is in. And Porsche looks at the 996 like New Coke after all the complaints about the headlights. So they will build cars that will please their customers, old and new. IMHO, of course.

I'll grant you the bug-eyed headlamps. However, the curvy hips really made their debute on the 993. The early 911's never had them.

i think (or hope) the 998 will be much more edgy than the retro 997. the retro thing is a fad.

That's a excellent point Ray. When I got my first 996 in 99 a neighbor stopped by with his right drive 72 911. He was thrilled that Porsche had gone back to it's roots with the 996s simple lines and lamented the 993s "boy racer bulges". His words, not mine. I got a good laugh out of it. BTW, I owned a 993 and always loved the look if not the car. I like the 997 as well. Jim

Aesthetics aside, the 997's are just simply alot larger than the 996, which is already larger than the 993. When are they coming out with a SUV version... oops, nevermind.

oh come on...where were you in the 1980s? the decade of excess?...including big curves on Porsches! I do agree with the comment on values. For many of us 993 owners, a 996 is becoming very tempting...as they are priced within a few $thous of what the 993 can be sold for.... and are clearly superior in performance, if not feel/character/soul...

Having been a former 993 owner, I too think the move back to round headlights on the 997 was a smart move. I'm not crazy about the 997 rear view either. I think my 996 looks great, but it was a big departure. One of the main reasons I like it so much was that I am a former Boxster owner as well. The 996 interior vs. the 997 wins hand's down.

I think the look of the Turbo headlamps, may be the best looking headlamps of all 911s. Nonetheless, I think the best looking 911 overall is still the 993. The 997 looks very bulbous and the headlamps are straight from the VW Bug parts bin. But it is still a fantastic car.

Nice try rewriting history. However, when the 996 came out is was very well received by the automotive press. If you go back and re-read the intro articles from publications such as Sports Car International, Motor Sport, Car & Driver, Road & Track, Evo, and others they are almost universal in their praise for the new 996. Only two consistent 996 styling critiques have really emerged through the years. Front end styling that was too close to the Boxster and the loss of some of the curve in the hips. As far as the public is concerned they voted with their $'s and made the 996 the most sucessful 911 ever by a long shot. Don't forget that when Porsche introduced the 993 they actually discounted the price vs. the 964 to pump the sales. As far as the "raw and visceral" feel that you describe goes, what did you expect. Was Porsche really not expected to improve the car? You can take this complaint back through history with every single introduction Porsche has made since the 356. Did you ever read what the purists said about the original 911 after the 356? If you want "raw and visceral" take a ride in an old car from any manufacturer (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, GM, Honda, etc) and then jump in the same model a generation down the road. Guess what, they all feel less raw! I've driven many 911's, 964's, and 993's and I liked tham all. In fact, I'd love to get another old 911 in my garage at some point. That being said, the 996 really took 911 performance and refinement to a new high (at least until the 997 came out).

Personally I love the front end of the 964, the Frog head lights are what makes it. Thats retro! The widebody 993 is awesome from the back but the headlights are wierd. The 993 looks dated now. I first loved the 993 and didn't like the new lines of the 996 but then the 996 looks like a modern car and I started really liking it after a while. The 996 head lights are great it is much better combining all the lights into one light. Though I do think the 997 did do a good job with the design of the front bumper having to add all the lights back into it. The 996 widebody is really special. I love the look. The 997 hips look good from the front but now the back end is to high, it wide which is good but why didn't they keep it shorter hieght wise. I don't like it. I didn't like the new rear spoiler at first but now I love it. Guess it was to modern for me at the start just like the 996 was. The headlights are nicer then the 993 though if they are going to go round again I would have prefered a 964ish looking shape for the headlights and front. Quite honestly I still love them all, just being picky. For a classic or dated 911, I would love to have a 993 widebody with a 964 front. For a current/modern 911, I would go with a 996 C4S or 997 GT3. For the new 998, I would want the 996 C4S widebody, with the 997 GT3 front, 997 rear spoiler and I would suck in the sides of the front of the rear wheel wells to show more hips from the front like the 997.

Don't forget the pre-impact bumper cars. They really had a great look!!

The only thing I did not like about the 996 was the headlights....... cheesy...... I did what I could about them.....

If they're going after a younger crowd who "doesn't remember the magic," why would they choose a design that draws styling cues from the classic air cooled cars? Isn't the 997 only 26 pounds heavier than the outgoing 996?

I think I like those! What is involved in installing them? Are they just plastic, metal, fiberglass? How do they "stick" on there? Do they come painted, or no? Ray - Great response! Very informative. I guess reading the complaints of 50 forum posters tends to skew the perception vs. the real world of thousands of satisfied P-car buyers!

About 150lbs more comparing a C2 to a C2 based on: http://www.flat-6.net/forum/home.php...sche&do=models

Really, this thread and similar ones in the past.... apples to oranges. 993s were hand made, dry sump GT1-derived engines, air-cooled, the last of an era in Porsche history. Do they look dated now? Absolutely. Is my my Honda minivan almost as fast? Yes it is. So the 993 is a different car for a different purpose. A pure sports car, fun to drive, smells unique inside the cabin, engine/exhaust sounds are addictive, absolutely beautiful to look at. It is special IMHO. For my particular year, there were last than 1000. I dont have current 996 and 997 production figures, but I would venture to say that they produce that many in a month. Does this make the 993 a better car? Nope. But you cannot argue that it is in demand... Many widebody 993s are selling for what a 2003 widebody 996 will sell for. It is because there are many more 996s available... a supply issue. Great if you are a buyer, maybe not so great if you are a seller. I often think about upgrading to a 996 for the performance and modern factors. The 996tt is becoming especially tempting. I personally would probably rather have a 996tt over a 997S, because I think that the 996tt looks better and has a very proven engine platform. But lets continue to respect each generation for what they are... a Porsche is a Porsche...there is no substitute - period.

AMEN!!!

I think the 993 and 997 look better than a 996 but the value is there right now with a 996 and I am proud to own one. Honestly I dont dislike any 911 variant and I have loved them and lusted after them since I was about 10 years old. I have driven all of the recent cars 964/993/996/997 and I may be called a sell out but the car just keeps getting better to drive every year IMO. I looked at a 993 c4s that I loved the style of but thought the 996 drove much better and ended up being almost 10k less.

Yup! We are all members of a pretty exclusive club (well, I will be soon)!

Well said

997 was well-received by the press too except for the "R" word that gets mentioned briefly but gets swept under the rug because it's not fashionable to criticize Porsche in the press. I ignored it until I drove some 997s, expecting to buy one and was turned off. I'm sick of the press and unrequited Porsche worship. They don't call the Z4M refined. They call it raw. That's what sports cars are unless you prefer them on auto pilot. That's where all of this is going, toward luxury and magic sports buttons that allow you to toggle between moods, with suspensions that pamper these new Conestoga bling wheels. IMO that's not improvement, it's fashion and planned obsolescence. The only carrot is the incremental power increases through the years.

This is why I am buying a 996. Of course, I can't afford a 997, but still...! I think if you want raw, you have to buy a new Mustang GT. Every Euro car maker has given in to the mega-electronics trend, like it or not.

You just can't top the 996 turbo look...... 2000 Porsche 996 C2 Cab Eibach springs. Short shifter B&M. Fabspeed Exhaust, headers. Agency Power Rear Adj. Control Arms.

Here are some weight figures. B 06 2,855 lbs BS 06 2,965 lbs B 07 2,887 lbs BS 07 2,987 lbs Cayman 2,868 lbs Cayman S 2,954 lbs 997 C2 3,075 lbs C2 Cab 3,263 lbs C2S 3,131 lbs C2S Cab 3,318 lbs C4 3,197 lbs C4 Cab 3,384 lbs C4S 3,252 lbs C4S Cab 3,439 lbs GT3 3,075 lbs Turbo 3,494 lbs 996 C2(02) 3,020 lbs C2 Cab 3,197 lbs C4 3,152 lbs C4 Cab 3,329 lbs C4S 3,296 lbs Turbo 3,394 lbs Turbo Cab 3,549 lbs

For me there are plenty of older Porsches to choose from. The pickins are good.

It's a good lookin' piece. Looks like a Doberman gettin' set to take a chunk out of someone's ***.

Get them raw, (strosek has a version). Have them painted and installed on the headlight modules. Reinstall the modules. Some people have used adhesive to install them, my body guy used double sided foam tape. They have been in place for 6 years and I have had no problems with them.

My only dislike with the 997 is front-end styling, specifically below the headlights. The whole airdam design looks very generic and dated. Now the 997 GT3 (or even the 997 TT) I like!

My .02 cents; I like the look of the new 997, but having sad that I also like the look of the 996. I thought I might like to own a 997 and test drove one a few weeks ago. Great power, nice interior....but it was missing something, it simply felt too smooth, too refined. It reminded me of when I sold my e34 M5 and bought a e39 M5, more power, nice interior.....too smooth. It got me thinking that the 996 may well be the last raw feeling Porsche. I know 911, 964 and 993 owners will all say that their model is more raw than the 996 and while I don't necessarily disagree I do believe that the 996 is the last of the breed. I think it's normal for owners of the previous model to feel theirs is "better" to the incoming model but in this case I feel the 996 has an edginess that the 997 simply doesn't have. I'm sure I could learn to love a 997 GT3! Stan

The 997 is actually shorter than the 996. I particularly like the interiors of the 997 over the 996. With the 996 they got into all those curves and swoopy stuff. The 997 cockpit is muc hmore like the 911s of yesteryear. I appreciate what they have done to the handling of the 997. With all the variants of 997s out there anyone should be able to find one that works for them. I had them build a S cabriolet, 2-whl drive, with PCCB brakes and the widest factory wheel available (8.5 in front, 11.5 in the rear). The handling does remind me of my older 911s, except I can do what I used to do a LOT faster. We used to always brag about how 911s handle like rooler coasters. The 997 really does. I remember when they changed the bumpers on the 911 in 1974 and thought, 'what are they doing??' In time, the newer safety bumpers grew on me. In time, all their designs grow on people.

I own both of these cars and I am STILL warming up to the style and stance of the 996 C4S (soon to be re-pinned with a lower stance). In my mind the most sexy car ever built was this 930S! I just have trouble making it a driver!

Did the same BMW thing and last summer went BACK to the E34 and now is my daily driver. I love that car and the style. I like your taste.

if you like 996, i am not sure why you would not like 997. it's virtually unchanged in looks except a few things.

997 is a move in the right direction for Porsche...back to the days that when I saw a porsche my heart started beating faster......hopefully the 999 is going to that again. ....now my heart start beating faster when I put the pedal to the metal in my 996 and I think...I think I saw a cop car in my rearview mirror!!!

i think the 997 is just about perfect in every way.

I saw a pic of the front of a 997 GT3 that inspired to start this thread. I rarely watch TV but tonight I saw a commercial for Mazda and the frontal view of the model pictured had more than a strong resemblence of the 997 GT3. If someone has the ability and energy it would be interesting to see a post with these models side by side. Don't get me wrong, I think the 997 may very well be a better car than the 996, but that is not my point. Again, the 997 series, especially the GT3 from the front, and even the 987 Boxsters have lost that captivating Porsche essense. If you're an old guy like me you may or may not agree but at least you know what I'm talking about. If you are young enough to be my son, you may not understand fully what this post is about or the feelings generated by very special cars of bygone decades.

I love the new 997 as well as all 911's dating back to the original in'63. However, IMHO the 996 is the greatest 911 of all time. It is the perfect modern day sports car. My only objection to the 997 is the interior, which has become too refined and MB like and this is unacceptable for "the quintessential sports car". The interior of the 996 is the perfect blend of the bare bones pre-996 interiors and modern day luxury cars. It is very sporty yet very liveable and comfortable. Also, I agree with several previous posters who have said that the 997's ride quality and handling caracteristics, such as steering feedback, have become too tame for a 911.

Being an old guy too and having driven Porsches for, lets just say a long time. I like both of my cars and I like the 997. My problem is the build quality or lack of it in comparison to the hand built cars. Too much plastic and rattles in the interior. Too many cheap fastners and plastic in the build. Have to keep my 964 to remind me of a really good Porsche. Porsche can never go back to the old ways but it was really fun while it lasted.....just think what a hand built 996 or 997 would be like and how much it would cost

That 930S is SWEEEET... That car is incredible looking Every time I look at the 996 from the front I wish I had the 997, anyway I really like my car and every time I drive it I keep telling myself Fulfillment of a dream, an award for a lifetime of achievements Special Porsche Sounds, Special Porsche Sight, and most important Special Porsche Feelings

imho i think the styling of the 997 is akin to the 993 and the 930, while the 996 is akin to the 964 as i said just my opinion. https://rennlist.com/forums/newreply...e=1&p=3990734# hiha

Up-close, I like the subtle lines of the 996. The lines looks sexy enough without making the car look heavy. From a distance, I like the lines of the 997. The more bulbous lines are easier discerned, especially on a dark colored 997. Up-close, the 997 to me has lines that are too exagerated and make the car look heavy even though it may not be significantly heavier than a 996. I love getting into mine and looking at those lines and thinking this a true sports car. The 997 looks heavier and disrupts that feeling of lightness, inherent is a sports car. The best attribute that I like about the 997 is that line that rises up from the back end of the rear fender up over the rear lights. On the 964, 993, 996 that line is a straight shot around, separating the rear bumper form the lights.

I think they did a great job on the OUTSIDE of the 997, but the inside is definitely more "average" than the 996 is. Harder lines, looks thinner somehow or other. Maybe even more "Scandinavian" rather than "British" - Ikea instead of Harrods. The 997 is a better car in all sorts of ways, just look at all the reviews, but I'd love to be able to get one with more of "gentlemans club" feel to it.

When the 901 was shown Porsche owners said thats not a proper Porsche car. My favorite is the 73s then the 964rs, I like the 997. After fixing the changes the US government had Porsche make to my suspension (ride height), I love my 996c2. Big difference by the way... Ruf springs, stock dampers. Kevin Of course there is a new one in the works. the 2009 model.

997 is better looking than the 996, but when you line up the special 996 variants such as the C4S, GT3, Turbo, the 996s look just as good as the 997 special variants, but ultimately, the 997 is the better looking gen. Sorry, but the 993 is just straight dated all around now.

I've never seen or driven a single Porsche that wasn't great. The 997 is a step up from all the rest, just as the the 3.2 was a step up from the SC. Arguements over the air cooled VS the new models will always have merit on both sides, but even the worse Porsche ever built was wondeful. Compare a 912 to a 356.....the 912 is a little bit better, but still a gussied up VW, but it speaks to you in a way a VW never could

__________________ bernocco930s - I love your garage. I, and I am sure others as well, would love to see more pics.

It's probably time for another "show off your garage" thread. It's amazing what some guys have done. I always wonder how they keep them so clean though. Where the hell are all the tools, jacks, oil containers, aircompressors, etc. etc.????

I hated the 996 when it came out and eventually warmed up to it. I prefer the 997. In my mind it's the best design yet. But the interior is too sterile. Almost VW-Audi looking. Very clean, but not purist.

Interesting debate. I might as well put on my flame suit and and say that I don't think any of the 911's are particularly "beautiful" in a pure aesthetic sense. I have an acqaintance who is a life long car junkie and as a kid I can remember drooling over all his cars. However, I didn't continue to drool over the 911, the 930 or the later P turbos that went through the garage after I saw them next to the Ferrari 308, the Testarossa, and the 550 Maranello that also shared the same space over the years. To me the 911 has always looked a bit like a glorified VW beetle. What made the design great to me was not so much looks, but the purist germanic "form follows function" design and the fact that Porsche honed the design subtly over 40 years rather than feeling the need to come out with whatever was "fashionable" at the moment. The design has stood the test of time better than any other in automotive history, which is clearly evident in the high resale values of 911's from every era. You can barely give away one of their 928 flagship cars now, and 944's and other odd variants haven't fared much better in terms of resale (not that they all weren't great cars from a pure driving/engineering perspective). In my opinion, the 993 Turbo is probably the ultimate expression of the model thus far. I didn't like the 996 much when it came out, just too flat sided and not "curvy" enough for my taste. The design grew on me in time, however, and I have come to love the C4s and TT variants. I respect them in that it was Porsche's attempt to continue to modernize the 911 form within a basic framework. I have yet to warm to the 997. The base model looks better than the 996 from the rear end (more curves!), but the front end and headlights seem to be a step back in a way. It's as if Porsche said "gee we need to make this car more like the 993 because people are complaining" rather than just keeping with the form follows function path of evolution. When designers consciously aim for a "retro" look, to me it's a bit self-conscious and at times just plain silly (anyone here want a '96 T-bird?). So maybe I'll eventually warm up to the front end of the 997, but for now, my vote still goes to the 993 and 996 C4's and TT's.

My favorites are as follows, 996 TURBO FRONT, GT2 REAR, GT2 TAIL, TURBO HEADLIGHTS, 993 TURBO REAR FENDERS, 996 INTERIOR, 320 HP OR MORE, WATER COOLED, RELIABLE, CONVERTABLE. I will give the 997 some time as I am sure it will grow on me.

Out for dinner last night local strip on a patio, lots of cool cars cruise there, anyways 997S drives by my friend a lady comments there goes your car as it was black too. I saw that it was what it was and did not correct her but the point being that the shape is truly Porsche maybe refined form generation to generation but umistakenly a P-car. Thats is to me for what its worth is were the value is in these cars....it's roots. Just my 2 cents and thats Canadian..... Safe driving everyone..... Lots of curves in them for me.

The 997 is simply the sexiest 911 to date (at least from the exterior)...and that's saying something. It's damn near perfection, especially the GT3 and/or aerokit. Prior to the 997, the 993 was probably the most beautiful, followed by the SCs/Carreras. The 996s are gorgeous too. The only 911 I ever struggled with (and I still do a bit) is the 964 - the front and rear bumpers never looked right.

A few comparison pictures 993RS vs 996TT

Beautiful cars.

Actually I think the 996 is the 964 of the water cooled 911 Porsches. The 964 had 75% new parts compared to the prior 911 Carrera. But it was an odd duck with massive bumpers, a different suspension and a quirky all wheel drive system. Initial sales sucked and so have resales. The 993 had only 25% new parts over the 964. But all the 964 styling weakness had been fixed with some great performance refinements, true dual exhaust, a near end to tail swapping lift thottle suspension and a twin turbo with no lag. Sales rocketed and resales have been strong. The problem was the existing manufacturing process at Porsche was so arcane they couldn't design or build a new car at a price anyone would pay. The Boxter was the market test to see if a mass produced water cooled 911 with futuristic styling and modern cost efficient production would sell. They where right. Boxster and 996 sales exceeded all expectations. The 996 attracted more first time 911 buyers than any previous model. It also attracted the fewest number of existing buyers. This was great for Porsche but resulted in poor resale value. Lots of first time 996 buyers never became Porsche repeat customers flooding the market with used 996s that the old air cooled guys still won't buy. Porsche had a problem to solve. They lost their aircooled customer base and the new 996 customer base was fickle. Solution. Revive the styling of the most successful air cooled 911, the 993. The front end is obvious. But even little details, like the side door pockets are retro 993. The new water cooled motors are still an issue for the hard core. Hence the 997GT3 and 997GT3RS where u can still get a track ready Porsche motor. The real bargains now are the 996TT GT2 and GT3. They have all the classic underpinnings but not the classic look. Hence they get hit with the 996 styling discount. I'll still miss the 5 real VDO gauges on the 993. I don't miss the goofy HVAC system and sitting a bit sideways to reach the pedals. No wonder all us old air cooled guys have bad backs.

Looks wise, the 996 GT2, 993 full aero Turbo/S, 997 GT3 top the list for me along with the 996 C4S with full aero following closely behind. The 997S with GT3 aerokit is next and then it's the 996TT with full aero along with the 993 C4S/C2S with full aero. I'm a huge aero kit fan. I can't stand the stock body standing alone. Interior wise, I like the 996 the best by far. The 997 is an awkward, forced retro look that's a step backwards from the 996. I'd love to see the 996 swoopy style with the 997 control quality upgrades.

I hated this post when it was first made and I still hate it now that it is bizarrely resurrected. I hate it because I read too much of this 'our cars are the best cars' crap over on the aircooled boards. I really am a Porsche nut because I love em all, right down to the 914's and the Cayennes (yes I said it). they are all done with style and awesome engineering execution.

I like the 997 looks generally particularly in GT3 form, but I think they missed an opportunity with the 997 C4S to make it distinct like the 996 C4S. I actually prefer the lights of the MKII 996's over the retro treatment on the 997; but I must be one of the only ones. The 997 TT exterior is a bit fussy with those ricey LED turn signals and the blingy wheels. the angled cut line from the rear bumper to the quarter panel looks arbitrary; should have stayed horizontal like all previous generations IMHO. While the interior quality of the 997 is excellent (particularly with the full leather), the design leaves me a little cold; a little to generic missing some of the idiosyncrasies that all 911 (yes even the 996) have had over the years. I love the new seats though. Sports Chrono hump looks like an afterthought and should be better integrated into the IP. In the end, I like all generations of the 911 with all their faults and foibles. The question is: if the 997 embraced "retro" or "heritage" styling, where do you evolve from there? Back to the more modern looking 996?

Clearly any Porsche {Model X} vs. {Model Y} is based ENTIRELY on opinion, and based on this thread, we have had the full spectrum For me, it is all about the lights. I absolutely love the 996 lights, however, not the 99-01 lights, the '02 "turbo-look" facelift. As my first Porsche, I absolutely HAD to have something with those lights, which in my case narrowed it down to an '02 or newer 996. I used to love the 993, but when the 996 came out, the shape instantly looked dated. That being said, I too don't like the 997. The front lights, whilst a throwback to 'classic 911-ness', are merely OK, and all the silver bits in the interior don't work for me. The only 997 that I like is the GT3RS - but it has to be in that awesomely unique orange. My 2 cents Olaf

I'll drink to that......

How can you not like this look? All Porsches are great! Just give it time to sink in.

I hardly think the 997TT's stock wheels are "blingy" and the LED turn signals "ricey" or more appropriately, "bratwursty". We're all splitting some serious hairs here, though, so before some of you get your panties in a bunch, just know it's nothing personal. We're critiquing cars, not human beings.

well the 997s are proving to be quiet popular because Porsha is selling a boat load every year. Which is driving down the cost of the 996s. This is all great news to me because I don't want to pay allot for 2002-2004 996, which I believe is the most modern and beautiful design for the 911. The front end and interior designs for the 997, Cayman and 987 Boxster have not won me over nearly two years on now. I wasn't crazy about the 99-01 996 or the my Boxster initially but it didn't take two years to grow on me either! The thing that I liked the most about the 996 was that it was uniquely Porsche, no other car had this style of headlights and interior. I was never a fan of the 911 growing up because it was too similar to a Volkwagen. I know they share some history but I felt the 928 and 944 had forward thinking and exciting looks. You would never confuse those cars with a VW. And don't get me started on the 997 GT3, its a stylistic mess like if a VW Bug and and a RX8 spawned an ugly child.

Perhaps. Either way, the 997TT came up short in the design department IMO. It should've looked more like the GT3. Nearly all of it's distinct styling items look like an afterthought. The wheels are mediocre at best. It is the only 997 design that hasn't completely won me over - the rest are off the hook (great).

Some of you guys talk as if cars are supposed to be lightly depreciating assets and try to sniff in the wrong places as to the reasons why some get hit harder than others... headlight shape, new models selling boat loads... Dude, it's a piece of machinery. It wears down over time. You can beat on it. You can crash it. Paint chips. Things scrape. Leather gets shiny and shows wrinkles. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. If you like a paticular model, go for it with the last thing on your mind being how much am I going to lose on this one.

All Porsche wheels look mediocre compared to what's available in the aftermarket so it's obsolete to me. I'd pick that 997TT all day everyday - it looks fantastic, but then I'd be modding it up a bit... which leads to the point... beauty eye holder blah blah wuh? I like some more than others, but mostly i like them all

Honestly, I like it! My wife thought I was crazy because there was a robin's egg blue caymen on ebay a few months back that I really liked. I thought it was cool, modern but the color also was a bit of a throwback at the same time. Bottom line, NICE CAR!

+1

I agree with you on all points, and especially the fussiness of the TT exterior. The 997 is the first model where I actually prefer the looks of base model over the Turbo.

For those of you that bash on the 996 headlights calling them scrambled eggs and such, take a look at photos of the short-lived, but hugely successful, 904 racer. Even though it was a mid-engined car, you can see the similarities in the headlights. Now one would think that the late-90s headlights were done primarily for the boxster (being also a MR) as a 904 throwback, but we're still talking true Porsche racing heritage in the styling. Why not use the same front clip on the 996? It's too bad that some people were so stuffy that they didn't want their 996 to look like a Boxster. When did P-car owners develop the Ferrari-snob stigma? Porsches are Porsches, even the 924.

like the pics, they are a collector's item, as the new building hadn't even broken ground

Keep in mind, the average joe on the street can't tell a 996 from a 997. In reality they look very similar. Here's a funny take on the similarities from Clarkson....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2inT7QOyCSQ

I always wondered why the 996 and Boxster had to be named differently. With the cars having so many identical parts from the seats forward, I would have just called the Boxster the Carrera Roadster, Carrera MR or something....That way they could have put in the 3.6 and 3.8 engines into the Boxster without marketing "concerns". I remember having to explain to the parking attendant when I first got the car that it wasn't a 911.. like the 01 996 in the same silver and red parked nearby. he looked at me like I was pulling his leg.

I agree.