Suspension Upgrade

I�m plan on upgrading the suspension on my 99 C2. Ride comfort isn�t a major issue. I�m considering M030 or PSS9. I noticed that as a kit the M030 has springs, shocks and front and rear sway bars. My question is do I need to change my front and rear sway bars if I decide to go with the PSS9 upgrade? If so what sway bars would you recommend. I use the car for mostly street driving though I plan to do 6 or more DE event within the next year.

Get M030 with Sways if your goign to Track your car.. If not, you dont need the thicker Sway Bar for Street Driving... PSS9's (I have them) are best known for Ride Comfort and Quality... If you just wanna have your car SLAMMED to the Nuts, get H&R Coilover's...

what about the JIC? btw.... is JIC the same as CROSS?

JIC and Cross are the same.

pss9's or x74...

What about just putting on the sways? Ride comfort is big for me. Upgrading only the sways would be the best of both worlds - tight cornering and comfy ride.

if you want handling and comfort, go with PSS9's and GT3 sways....you will get awesome handling and a better than stock ride...

Your car already have sway bars, front and rear. IIIRC, the ROW M030 rear sway bar is larger that the stock rear sway bar. You probably would not notice too much of a difference if you changed just the sways.

Ok, because on my Acura TL I went from a 17mm to a 21mm rear sway, and the change was VERY signifigantly better!

LOL, a change to anti sway bars is likely one of the things that will make the most difference on your handling balance as that is the part of your suspension that has the most direct effect on increasing/decreasing the cars balance towards understeer or oversteer.

It seems that the larger sway bars make a big improvement so I�m leaning towards the M030 upgrade. Does anyone think the ride quality of the M030 is too harsh for a daily driver?

No, I don't. But it is noticeably stiffer. The first thing I did to my '00 C4 was change the stock suspension to (European) RoW M030 (pretty similar to the USA M030). I thought the stock suspension was too soft. My C4 was my daily driver/only car. As for your other suspension questions, all I can say is that suspensions are a VERY complex subject. Spend a few days reading some old posts on the racing forum; you'll get the idea. So if you stick with the Porsche solutions of M030 or X74 you can't go wrong. You might consider the X74. It's a lot more expensive but from what I hear it's not that much stiffer, but it is lower by about an inch. A better suspension than the M030.

I called my Porsche Service Manager to find out how much it would cost to install the M030 kit and was quoted 12 hours of labor. With the labor rate at $102 per hour the total without TT&L is $1,224!! That seems rather high to me. What have you guys paid to have yours installed? Is this a DIY job? Any special tools other than a spring compressor needed? Is this so complex a job that it would rule out having a Goodyear Service Center type company to the install? I figure I would need to have the dealer do the alignment since I can�t find an independent shop in this are that can? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

It is a DIY job but requires the car to have a 4 wheel alignment when you are done. No special tools really. Any independent can do it for you since you also need the alignment done afterwards.

I have decided to upgrade my suspension as well. I have chosen JIC Cross Suspension because of the 16 way adjustability and the included camber plates. Overall I felt it was a very complete suspension. Although as I understand it is a bit stiffer in general than other options. I have ridden in cars with the JIC's and when set to the softer settings it really is a nice ride. I am also going with H&R Sways and adjustable control arms. I figured while I was in there might as well replace everything.

I've been intrigued by the JIC Cross setup also. There's nothing but praises in the DE/Track section of the forum from the 944/993 guys.

i just got the JIC... putting it on sat.

You went with the JIC eh? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. What about rear links and swaybar drop links, are you changing those?

so far i am just going with the JIC and see what happens... but i think the sways are to come... thinking of going with the GT3......

Smile, I've decided to go with JIC (mid range springs) too, b/c I want to do more DEs in the near future and want something that I can adjust as my skill level progresses. Please let me know how it you like it. zose, in regard to your JIC test ride, do you know which springs the car had (soft, med, or hard)?

All I have to say is my buddy just put PSS9's on his 997 and its like a damn track car. Choose wisely.

I "believe" he had the mid range springs. The car I rode in was a 996 turbo, so I dont know if they are set up slightly differently because of additional weight or anything. I elected to go with the midrange springs as well from the guidance of the shop doing the install. Since my car is primarily street driven while I fall down the slippery slope of DE's having done my first ever track driving on March 2nd I figured this was the best set up. I simply elected to do the drop links and sway bars now because I was worried about any possible preload on the existing swaybars and I figured while the work was being done it was not a huge cost to have them go ahead and do the work while they were in there. The shop is waiting on the rear sway bar for me, which should be here on the 20th and then everything is slotted to get installed the following week. So by the 1st I'll be able to report back on the new suspension. It's nice to see others have been chossing the JIC as well. I was a bit nervous about choosing that at first. It seems it has been a very popular choice with the turbo crowd, but less so with the NA crowd.

12 hour install seems awfully high. I changed mine (USA M030 to ROW M030) in a day and I am working with only jackstands - no lift. I am fairly experienced with DYI jobs and on a scale of 1-5, I'd say this is a 3.5. Ring compressors are not needed. Toughes part is getting the front struts out without damaging the fender. Once done, you'll feel like superman Good luck. As for ride harshness, I think it is jut right. Again, I already had the M030 (USA). The difference for you might be greater.

For my installation of coilovers, sway bars, and drop links I'm in for 10 hours. Considering it would take me 4 years, 10 hours seemed reasonable.

[QUOTE=auto-xr]Smile, I've decided to go with JIC (mid range springs) too, b/c I want to do more DEs in the near future and want something that I can adjust as my skill level progresses. Please let me know how it you like it. i'll let you know.......... lots of pcar drivers are sporting the pss9 and i don't doubt those are an awesome coilover set to choose from... i just got a deal on these i didn't want to let go... if it doesn't work for me, then i'll just sell it...... but really looking forward to it.......

How much did you guys get your JICs for?

+1 and from which retailer.. thanks.

i got it from another porsche owner........ it had 5k miles on it..... the owner didn't care for the ride.... so he went with the ROW m030... so i took it from him.........but price wise... it's half the price of the Pss9.... how do you say no to that......?

Wow 1/2 of PSS9s? PM me some details please !! Or was it 1/2 of PSS9s buying them used? That would make sense.

That sounds like a good idea to see if anyone has some JICs that they don't want b/c the ride may have been too rough. Anyone looking to get rid of some JICs for a 996? I'd be interested

alrighty... just got my JIC's on..... the ride is harsher then stock, but wow..... the cornering is night and day......... the drop is beautiful as well... i finger gap all around.... pics. to come.......... so far, i like the,.... im assuming the pss9 are less harsh of a ride... but i did click mine on half.......... it's a 32 way adjustable, and i clicked it to 16.........

OK, all I have to say is.....

GT3 Sway bars are the way to go, especially since they're fully adjustable. You'll need some custom links to make them fit, but well worth the cost. Totally cleaned up and tightened the ride of my already lowered 2003 Targa.

Smile, way to go on the JICs! For street driving, did you put the shocks to full soft?

Dammit.... i knew you would do this...... pics will be post up tom....... need to get my camera..... now where the hell is it??????

no.... i put it on 16....... that's halfway...........but still pretty stiff...... i love the way it takes the corners........

H&R RSS Coil Over RSS1513-1 $ 2,200.00 Kit

hee hee!

I have a set of JIC's available, that were on a 996 C4. They have the lightest spring setting, according to JIC. They are for a C4. It's my understanding that its not very hard for JIC to convert them to C2's. In any event, I have them and their collecting dust in my storage space. These are the fully adjustable JIC's, thus the expensive ones. Yes, the ride is stiffer than stock. I wouldn't suggest them to anyone living in an area with poor street quality. They would be great for a weekend warrior or someone going to the track more than a couple times a year. I should also make a shameless post and tell everyone that I have a pair of graphite gray and a BK harness bar for sale. They are listed in the for sale section of the Rennlist, if your interested.

I�ve ordered the M030 kit from Sunset Porsche. I�m hoping to install them myself next weekend. I also ordered new rotors from Sunset and new Pagid Orange pads from Stable Energies. I plan is to let the suspension settle for a couple of weeks before getting an alignment. Will driving the car without the alignment cause excessive tire wear or make the car drive squirrelly? I want to get the suspension dialed in for a DE at the Texas World Speedway in May. Any suggestion on alignment setting that would make to car handle better for the occasional DE without making normal street driving difficult or tire wear excessive would be greatly appreciated.

you know.... if you're just getting the spring set and not a coilover, there's not much you can do to the suspension........ if it's a coilover that's adjustable..... it changes the whole gambit. not only will you need and alignment, but also corner balancing as well........ not cheap.....! in regards to tire wear, well it depends on your driving,..... the more you drive and if it's severely mislign, it will cause more tire wear....

Alrighty...... YOU WANT PICS.......? YOU WANT PICS............... here you go.......

Smile, very nice.

NICE !!

Great stance Doc. How about a weekend "amberectomy" with those steady hands?

thanks all.... i love the new look....... looks real nice and balanced....... about the amberectomy.... i'm planning on litronic upgrades........ and then maybe then i'll take these steady hands to the porsche...... i also need a wash..... gosh darn sprinkles.......

Corner balancing and alignment are not expensive...I had it done twice with coilover install for $450 TOTAL.

Very nice Porsche_Smile! Clean car and great rims! What offset do they have? Do you have wheel spacers?

Where do you get your corner balancing and alignment work done at?

+1 on that .... where did you get your corner balancing at Newport..? i was quoted $650 for the alignment and corner balance together......... although the alignment is only $250.......... and this is NOT install as well......

No wheel spacers and i have no idea on the offset...... i got them off of another pcar owner... and the iforged wheels are horrendous with their offset calculations... so i am sorry i am of no help here... i think if you ever want one from iforged, you need them to take a look at your car personally and then have it done........

All I can say about this is WOW... I paid less for this for unlimited allignments for 5 years through a national chain with up-to-date hunter allighment racks and I stand out there and oversee all of my allignments. I must have had 15 allighments done on the M3 last year. Andy

I have seen guys use the best computerized equipment STILL screw up alignments. You gotta find a guy with a good reputation and use him consistently. West End Alignment charges in the neighbourhood of $600 for a full alignment/corner-balance. It takes him a few hours, but he's damn good.

You're talking about alignments and NOT corner balancing. Two different things.

Smile, you're car looks fantastic! Silver with the black top and wheels is a great combination.

thanks mark... i like so far.... but the more the car looks meaner, the more the wife hates it..... so far, she hasn't jumped in since i got the wheels...... man, back to solo driving........... i love it...! andy, what major chain does your alignment?

agreed......but he did state the charge for the allignment alone was $250. And yes you do need someone who knows what they're doing even on the best equipment around...but I either participate or oversee the work directly when my allignments are done. In my experience if you find a good shop with a good manager they welcome your involvement as it helps to insure that you're not coming back the next day because you're not happy with the specs. Andy

Rleeq, I didn't read the rest of the Listers suggestions... but to answer your question between the M030 and the PSS9, ... I highly suggest the PSS9. You will have unlimited height adjustments and you can corner balance the car which will give you some outstanding handling. M030 will imit you to one height setting.. and someday(just my hunch) you would wish you could lower(or raise) it by a tad. good luck.

OK, this is probably a dumb question. Exactly what is the difference between a four wheel alignment and corner balancing. I think I have an idea about the differences but I am not sure.

Tim, Corner balancing is when they put your car on four independent scales. One under each tire. On the PSS9, you have the threaded strut housing where it has a hat where the spring sits. You can adjust each of these collars to even out the weight on each corner of the car. Not exactly even rear-to-front, but side to side. This will give you a more predictable roll, launch and braking attitude of the car. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/new...er-weights.php http://www.dietersmotorsports.com/te...nerbalance.htm

Mike, thanks for the reply. That's pretty much what I thought because of the phrase "corner balancing" but, since I wasn't sure, I thought I should ask. Thanks again!

I received the M030 kit 3 days sooner (pleasant surprise) than I thought. I installed them all by myself yesterday. I wasn�t a difficult job and I didn�t need a spring compressor after all. The mechanic at Porsche must be slow. They said it would take 12 hours to complete. It took me 10 hours including lunch break (union rules) and beverage interludes and I also changed all four brake discs. I probably could have finished a few hours sooner if I had a lift, all that getting up and down takes a lot of time not to mention all the wear and tear. The car drives great. I can really tell the difference in the corners. I�m a little surprised that the height is lower. It�s only about � inch lower but when I stood the new and old springs side by side the new springs where more than an inch shorter. The next mod is to add a third radiator. I don�t like how hot it gets and highs have been in the 70s lately but the 90s aren�t far away.

Wow, no spring compressor needed, I know that was a pleasant surprise! Does the kit come with new bumpstops?

It comes with bumpstops for the rear only. Mine also came with an extra set of bushings for the front. Go figure.

time for an alignment...... btw the guy who did my install took him 5 hours for my JIC...... very good job...... anyone want to know let me know....