Sumitomo HTR Z III question

According to Tirerack's tests the new HTR IIIs are pretty good. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...irePageLocQty= Anyone actually try these out for street, AX, DE?

crap

They look like pretty good tires: What We Liked: Overall road manners and decisive dry grip and handling What We'd Improve: A small improvement in wet grip Conclusion: A new tire worthy of being in the Max Performance Summer category Latest Test Rank: 1st Previous Test Rank: Not previously tested Ben doesn't know what he's talking about, as usual.

It would be interesting to know if anybody has ran them. Looks good on paper

id stick to N rated tires... they have a long history

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I wish they would have tested the 18" tire instead of the 17's.

I had their HTR Z 2's two years ago, and for the money I thought they were great. I wouldn't recommend them to someone who wanted to Auto X, or do a DE event. But for back road spirited drives, well worth the money. I'm sure the 3's are even better.

I actually have them.. I have only put like 100miles on them, they were very cheap ($6xx) shipped for all 4 of them. I got them because of that test on Tirerack. I will be tracking and AutoX next year on them and I will let you guys know how they feel. I have had Contis 2, and Michelins at both AutoX and track and the Michelins are obviously the best. I expect the HTR Z III to be not as good as the Michelins and not as bad as the Contis. My tires only last 5k miles or 1 year so financially the HTR Z III made sense for me. Just because they are cheap doesnt mean they are crap, I have on my S2000 the Falken Azenis that are also VERY cheap and are so far the best tire I have tried for AutoX, I wish they made them for the 911..

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I have 18" Azenis on my 996 on turbo twists.

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I wished they tested them on a 996 or 997.

I have them on the rears. I've put on about 600 miles on them. So far, quite impressed with them, will report some more as I put more miles on them.

Being a subsidiary of Dunlop means they share much of the rubber compounding technology shared by many of Dunlops more advanced tires. I sell HTR Z II's to many performance car owners and overall it rates to be a very good tire, especially for the money. I don't recommend them much to Porsche owners because many report them to wear pretty quickly and be skittish. I'm hoping that the new tread design of the HTRZIII proves to be better. Time will tell.

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Thanks for the feedback and please keep us updated I'm looking for a good set of tires that will last awhile; I'd use them to get to the track and AX events. The negative camber settings (2.5F and 2.0R) on my car are chewing through my PS2s at an alarming rate. In less than 500 miles my front tire tread depth is 10/23nds on the outside shoulder and 8/32s on the inside. These tires are even cheaper dollarwise than the Falkens, and because of the treadwear rating, they may even last longer.

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I have the III's on my car now - for about 5,000 miles. No problems in the dry, or semi-wet. Eh, we don't get much rain here in Texas. No winter condition driving. I use these as my DD tires, and not track use. The III's are low noise, nice profile, and great tread design. I can recommend them for DD, but I have not used them on the track at all. For the track, I use(d) Yokohama AVS ES100. These have lasted me an entire year on the track (14 days) - and they are only worn by 1/2. Granted, they are not the stickiest tires, but for a cheap tweener tire that gets long life, these are sweet. These were great tires to get to know the car, as they talk alot and break free gradually. Plus, discount tire had them in stock. However, with my new Christmas rims, I'm putting RA-1s all the way around. So my 17" with ES100's are soon out the door. Keep in mind that you will be sacrificing something as you compromise for longer tread life. If you are not hardcore into DE/Track time, then the ES100 are a decent tire to get your through a season. If you are a junkie, well, you're going to have to suck it up and get better tires. -td

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Thanks for the background info

I was really unimpressed with the HTRZ II's when I had them on the 993, especially when doing easy laps (7/10's maybe) at a local track in August. They went to mush in 3 laps. Daily they were okay but had minimal confidence on pushing it in any way and found them as Damon described "skittish". Like anything that evolves maybe they have gotten better!!

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How long have the HRT Z III been for sale? I notice there isn't any customer feedback on the tires to date.

Damon: As the resident expert what do you recomend for a high performance street tire for the 993 TT ?

Bump. Anymore feedback on these tires?

I still think they suck

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2,750 miles (street only) and no complaints. I'd buy them again. And to clarify, these are the IIIs we're discussing here, not the older IIs, right?

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YES III 's

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Can you please elaborate. On what data do you base this? Have you had these tires on your vehicle? Please address the III's not the II's. Thanks

I have no experience with the III - just the II's which really stunk. Looking on tirerack they have radically changed the tread pattern and moved the wear rating from 220 up to 300. They also reduced weight which hopefully does not translate into more sidewall flex. sorry for not having direct experience with that version as they may be better than the old ones (not hard to do IMHO). That said i would go with at least a kumho brand over summitomo if you are looking at the lower range rubber.

Like I said in my past tread I got them ( HRT Z III ) and so far they have been great.. I used them for my first 4 AutoX events and I came 1st in my class in 1 event, 2nd in the other 2, and 3rd in the last event... Tomorrow I am participating in another event.. one of my events was in the wet and the tires behaved perfectly.. I am not saying that they are the best tires out there but for the price there is no better value..

I have about 1000 miles on mine. Overall I prefer them to the Pirelli P-Zero System I had previously. They are quieter and should last for quite a few more miles. Grip is at least on par with the Pirelli as well. I had 225s on the front, which I upped to 235s when I put on the Sumitomos. This corrected to two complaints I had with the previous tires, namely early lockup under braking and understeer. The car is far better balanced now. I realize that I may have experienced this same result with 235s from other brands as well, so this is not necessarily a direct praise of the Sumitomos. On the downside, the softer sidewalls take away some steering responsiveness. However, I am not sure to which degree this should be attributed to the Sumitomos, and how much is due to the 235 tires on 8" wheels (the low limit for a 235). It would have been interesting to try a 225 tire up front, as I would have been able to make a direct comparison. Regardless, I am still very happy with the Sumitomos compared to the Pirellis. Considering the price and the expected longer life, they certainly offer great value for a daily driver.

I just had the III's installed today. They are 18's on a 2001 C4. So far, so good! I only have 9 miles on them and this car is a daily driver in Chicago traffic.

Still very pleased with mine with about 4,000 miles on them.

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What size did you put on the rear?

Not to confuse the subject of III's, but I still like the II's, got new rears about a month ago. fwiw, I just did an auto-x with them and they were great at about 35 psi rear. I was sliding the car in some sections but the rear felt planted and actually confidence-inspring...

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265/35ZR-18 Sumitomo HTR Z III XL

I am running 235s up front and 295s in the rears for about 1K miles now. This is coming from 245s in the front and 285s in the rear Conti2s. I noticed more understeer due to the narrower front rubber. I notice more grip overall but have to agree with the softer sidewall which translates into quiter ride. As a DD, its the best bang for the buck. You may notice the tread pattern matching Dunlop tire magazine advertisement treads. I will not hesitate to buy again.

I know a guy at work who has them on his Mustang. He put 305's on the rear and said he can roast them on demand. Speaks a lot because a Mustang is a gutless car IMO. He claims they are pretty slippery but they do have a really nice tread pattern. He bought them about 6 months ago but I don't know if it is a II or III.

I have these tires. They are very good when in dry conditions. In the wet you will be slipping and sliding all over the place. They may perform better in the wet on a rear engine car but they really have trouble holding the road on my front engine car.

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I've driven mine quite a bit in the wet, both in light rain in the twisties and in torrential downpours on the interstate. While I wouldn't confuse them with a high-quality all-season tire in the wet, they stick well enough that I can't knock them too much. Hydroplaning resistance is also better than I expected. I'm running 225s front and 295s rear on 8s and 11s.

Currently I have just shy of 10,000 miles on my rear set. I'm definitely going to buy them again. The set that came with the car (Bridgestones OEM with about 75% left) only lasted 5,000 miles and they went to the cords and to a dangerously wobbly ride. These (HTRZ III's) have held up to the same type of driving (lots of spirited turns on back roads, to and from work - very de-stressing...) for at least twice as long, so they've already exceeded to my expectations. I had to 'rotate' them (change sides, really) at about 1/2 way since the driver's side (rear) one tends to wear at about 1.5 times faster (likely from the more aggressive turns, on that side (sliding left turns they call it...) ALL GOOD STUFF!! It was nice that I could do that with these tires...(not rotationally challenged) A couple of things though...I don't really go fast, unless it's a straightaway, I prefer challenging the turns... I don't Mod (stock everything, if they didn't put it in, I don't want it...), track, rally, drift or otherwise compete with my car...So, no feedback on that... I never do anything in the rain...so I have no feedback other than driving at the speed limit, or less... And, my *** is not really calibrated to feel the nuances of the sidewall softness/hardness...I just have a lot of fun with it (twice a day, when sunny) so...the 911 IS the best handling car I've ever owned, and that's good enough for me.....I'm sure there's better tires out there...for my money (and fun) I'm buying again... Last thing, I had the II's on a BMW 328 and absolutely hated them...tramlining, loud..etc... However, I took a chance on the III's and feel like I've discovered something good (to me)... I calculate I have about 2,000 miles left on these, but I must also say that the inner thread (which looks like it's specially made for the type of cars that wear the insides...'cambery' cars), has held up pretty nicely... (other opinions may vary...)

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Hi Himself, I trust your recommendations, but I see that the Yokohama AVS ES100 doesn't come in 285/30-18 for my rear tires. My Michelin Pilot sport tires handled very good, but really didn't last in my first DE. Which one do you recommend for a daily driver an for occasional DE track driving, maybe the SUMITOMO HTR Z lll or the General Exclaim UHP. I'm looking for a tire that will last longer, have strong good handling and the last important factor good price. The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 also looks great, but is 285/35-18, not the same size.

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Unfortunately, there is no great compromise for track/street with price also as a consideration. If you want something that lasts, you're going to need high treadwear. This means long life but poor(er) grip. If you get something with more grip, that means it has softer rubber and shorter life. For a beginner/novice, I would guestimate that around 200 treadwear is a good middle ground. Pilot Sport and Sport 2 are both 220 treadwear. As are the HTRZ IIs. The HTRZs are 300. The Yokohamas are 280, but they actually out perform the HTRZ IIs (as per Tire Rack). In my experience, the Yokos were a nice compromise in the 17 variety. I have not tried my Sumitomos on the track yet, but if you are going to - I would suggest the IIs instead of the IIIs. I believe the IIIs asymetrical tires. This means that you won't be able to flip the tires and get extra life out of them. [inner part of tire must always be inner, even if you change sides]. The IIs are directional only, so you can flip them. One other tire you should research is the falken azenis 615. Check with JC3D here on Rennlist. He's used them and now is now racing. He probably has some thoughts. Also check with Dell (LVDell) and Andy (AudiOn19s). Once you get past the first two run groups though, you should probably have a better performing tire to further develop your skills and understanding of car dynamics at the llimit. A decent R-compound tire will probably work (Toyo R888 or RA1, Nitto NT-01, Pilot Sport Cup, BF Goodrich R1, Hoosier R6, Hankook Z214, etc.) And if I knew then what I know now: I would have bought an extra set of rims and gotten my tires as take off slicks from Bob Chick or John Berget. 50-100 bucks a piece for racing tires. And if you get the endurance compounds, they last a long time... -td

Thanks Himself for sharing your experience!

Eurowerks in CLT is putting HTR Z III 's on my car as we speak... will report back next week when I get the car back. Bought the tires at TireRack for $600 (18 inch)

just ordered the IIs myslef (yesterday)

I have years of championship sports car racing (not DE stuff) experience with two championships and I understand tires. I thought they looked good on paper also but when I put them on my C4S with X73 the felt like they were riding on marbles. NO grip, hard to balance, overall bad rating from me. I sold them on eBay after only 150 miles of use (street) I am now using Hankooks on the street. I think these are good tires! eric

Well, I just picked my car up and have a whopping 10 miles on these tires and first impression is that they are less noisy and not as hard of a ride as my Pirello P zero's. So far, I am a happy customer

Pirellis get VERY loud after they ger worn down.

Update here. After about 15K miles on the rears with 30% spirited driving and 70% street, I have about 4mm to the wear bar. It should last me half way through the summer season at around 18 to 19K miles. A new rear set will be installed.

I just ordered the new version of the HTR Z II's...so far so good. BTW...I had great customer service from Damon.

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Just curious. Why the II's and not the III's?

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I didn't measure mine when I had the new tires put on, but they sure look like they're wearing well... No tracking, but probably 50% spirited/50% wife in car... looks like I may get another year out of the rears... So far, nothing but good to say about the ZIIIs... Rudy

ZIII will be on my car when the Potenzas wear out. Buddy in Denver just put some ZIII 295s on the back on his TT. He feels that it doesn't grip as well on the snow/wet compared to Pirellis. But on dry pavement, he feels it does well.

yea, - cuz they are summer tires and not designed for SNOW (sorry) in the wet they are not bad, I live in Seattle and we get some rain........................LOTS of rain. They are a good tire - for the price. They are not the best, but for 90% of driving they are fine...its when you reach the edge of traction that there is a voice in your head saying... damn I wish I had those PS2's

I am running 235's in the front and 295's rear and I must warn everyone that they are taller than I expected. The good is that I do not rub leaving the driveway of my house. The bad is the look of the car sitting up. The reason I put this size on is these tires run smaller than the N rated tires in the same size. Other than this great tire for the price.

I've got the III's on my Audi for a summer tire on the 19's and think they're an exceptional value for a daily driver tire. Low noise and enough grip to have some fun. After about 12k miles wear is good and I have no complaints. Was hoping to put a set on the E55 in the spring but it doesn't look like they make the right size. However, I'm not sure they'd be the best for track use. I'd be looking at the kuhmo XS or new compound Falken 615 for a street tire that can also stand some track use

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Even bikes have a deal of the profiles are not all created equal. One companies number matched to another is not the same and I suspect it is the same for performance tires in the auto sector. Are you using a 235/35 in the front and 295/30 in the rear? I've got front 235/35/19 and 275/30/19's in the rear on mine. The way the profile number works is it's fanagled percentage of the width. So the wider the tire the taller the 30 or 35 profile will be. This makes a 275/30 lower than a 295/30 by a little bit. I'm pretty sure the stock design always puts 35's in the front and 30's in the rear. Just wondering if they slipped some 35's on your rear wheels taking it too high.

No 295/30's on the rear. But 285/30's were too small and did not look right on the wheel.

I'm still happy with my Sumis. They're on the tire rack in the garage right now, and the Blizzaks are on the C4S. Mine showed very little wear when I removed them for the switch to winter tires. I think they have seen about 7,000 miles.

I've got 10K on my Sumi's and the fronts just hit the wear bars, the rears have 2x the wear bar thickness to go. This is on a '03 C4S daily driver with 14 days of autox (ave ~10 runs/day)

I just bought a a new set of these and I have absolutely no complaints. I don't track the car, just normal driving, but love them, especially considering the price.