What's the real story with early 996s?

I'm debating whether I should look at picking up a 996 as a daily car. Budget would be somewhere around �20k which looks like it should get me an 02 car if I want one. However - I would prefer a C4 and this seems to rule out the majority. I want manual - which also rules out a lot (tiptronic is clearly popular), I don't want a cab and ideally I'd like one in black. So, if I did decide I want one then I could widen the list of possible cars by considering earlier models too - and they are also pretty cheap these days. However - I have heard plenty of horror stories regarding the early 996s and I'm hesitant to spend money on a car which then has terminal engine failure. The 964s also had plenty of horror stories when they were released - but I've had mine 7.5 years now and am very happy with it. So what's the deal with the 996s? Should I simply see if an 02 car comes along and ticks all the boxes - or are the horror stories overblown, and I should consider 98/99 cars and save myself �7k?

Buy one with a replaced engine and you should be safe.

the horror stories i've read usually involve cars older than '02. it seems like a lot of problems happened with 99-00 model years (or 98-00 for you europeans). i'm sure there are lots of stories of any 996, but the mechanics and shop owners who i've spoken to seem to have had more MY 1999-2000 cars in for catastrophic problems than any other MY. but chu74's advice is sound.

With any used Porsche, I think you should buy the newest one you can afford. I also looked at the MK I 996 when I was looking. I also wanted an AWD car and a manual transmission. Personally, I love the wide body look of the C4S, and that was what made the deal for me. I did look at a 2001 C4, and I don't think it would have been a bad option. I think the key is a good PPI, and get one with a solid service history.

No real problems with my '99. RMS has been replaced and is good, coolant bottle is good, 60k service found nothing. I don't think there is a real "story" to early 996's. There have been a few folks with issues trying to get resolution, but as a PCA member and former chief steward of a DE program, we saw very few 996 issues on track.

It would seem that there is a lot more talk than fact on early 996 issues. As an example, I was in at my Indy's last week for oil change etc.. (he is the largest Porsche indy in eastern Canada-5 garage bays 2 cars deep and always very busy). We talk a lot on this site about the "dreaded" IMS issue yet he says that he has had one repair for that in the last 2 years. On the other hand, he has changed a lot of RMS seals but that seems to plaque more than just the early years. Although I have had a major transmission overhaul, the rest of my '99 has been great fun and troublefree. Just my 2 cents Pete

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I think the quote above sums it up best, regardless of model year. Search around and you will find horror stories for all models clear through to the 997.1. Find a car with a solid, documented history and a favorable PPI and don't look back.

From my experience I can only tell you that if you are on a limited budget and really want a Porsche you better be prepared for some big repair bills. I don't want to overly generalize but I can tell you so many things can require service and you will be hard pressed to find a repair bill under the 1K point. God forbid you start messing with RMS or other related issues. But the newest car you can which also has some warranty remaining. Good luck and make sure you get a good PPI before purchase.

I use my '99 C4 coupe as a daily driver. It's been great. I bought it from the original owner, who had every record, and I had a full PPI done by a reputable dealer. The transaction, and the car, were everything I'd hoped it would be!

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I'm not really on a limited budget - �20K is simply the figure I'm willing to spend on a daily runaround. It's not the case that it's all I can afford, or that I'm stretching myself to do it. I already own a Porsche so I'm familiar with the service costs - I doubt the 996 service bills will me more than the 964 (which I intend to keep). However - I also don't want a car where I need to buy a new engine and I have heard stories like that about some early 996s.

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Buying a new/reman'd engine is the solution for major failures with these motors. Although in the UK, I guess AutoFarm (or others) are an option for a rebuild. Point is, in general, that replacing the M96 engine is the accepted approach for any major failure because the cost of replacements is generally low vis a vis the service bills for a major overhaul. Not speaking to failure rates - as with anything - it's really a crap shoot. Sometimes they go, MOST times they don't. I also don't think this is necessarily a bigger problem in pre-'02 motors. Nor do I think the systemic problems were solved in the 997 motors - there are fewer problems maybe, but still a few weak points in the design (like the IMS bearing). With the new engines ,'09+ - Porsche has authorized dealers to crack into the engine to repair failures. With the M96, this was not the case. Just another data point to consider. Great cars, no regrets from me...

I have had the RMS replaced in my 2002, so that issue certainly isn't totally solved in the MK II cars. Don't forget that the internet forums for Porsche and other cars are generally problem solving forums, so you see a high number of people reporting problems while there are thousands of people out there driving their cars every day without an issue. I have no regrets whatsoever with my 996 purchase. I'd do it again.

996 engine failures are probably blown way out of proportion on the internet - unless it happens to you. The general rule is the newer the engine the less it's prone to problems. So the 2002+ (2001-2002 MY for you) 3.6 L engines are generally more reliable. Then the later 3.4 L engines. Last the early 3.4 L engines. There are several articles on 996 engines, some can be found at Renntech.org http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...e=post&id=3224

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Either that or get a warranty. If you buy at a dealer, you might be able to get a CPO warranty. Otherwise, get a 3rd party warranty. I don't have any experience with them so I can not recommend one. Most repairs should not be that bad...but a failed engine could ruin your day.

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Thanks - that was a useful read. I'd prefer a car that didn't leak oil, but I accept RMS as a 996 "feature" that I'd have to live with. 964s have always had a reputation for oil leaks anyway, so I am beginning to subscribe to the "all 911s leak oil" theory!

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Yeah, my old '80 911SC leaked some oil too. Oil leaks can be dealt with. I think a warranty is the way to go to protect against a fatal IMS failure. A recent Excellence article hints that maybe 1 in 5 can fail. I'm surely not saying to expect anything like that, but at least keep it in mind when considering whether or not to get a warranty.

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Even if you do end up with an oil leak and the need for a replacement RMS, you can deal with the situation until the clutch needs to be replaced, and then do the RMS at that time. Mine was done at the Porsche dealer, and for the RMS and Intermediate Shaft Seal to be replaced it was $1,380.

From my experience I can only tell you that if you are on a limited budget and really want a Porsche you better be prepared for some big repair bills. I don't want to overly generalize but I can tell you so many things can require service and you will be hard pressed to find a repair bill under the 1K point. God forbid you start messing with RMS or other related issues. But the newest car you can which also has some warranty remaining. Good luck and make sure you get a good PPI before purchase. This was not, in my opinion, a well considered response. What repairs? Major service for my 99 has run around $1k, the minor service around $350. Given any reputuable shop charges somewhere in the neighborhood of $115 to $125 per hour no matter what make, you will experience large bills for any significant repair. I have seen 996's tracked regularly and with attentive maintenance have had no issues. I have also seen cars abused and not maintained that broke. Wow, that is a hard one to figure, eh? As someone said, find a car with a solid service history and buy it.

Thanks for the replies so far. Something occurred to me tonight. My current daily car is a RWD Toyota Supra, which can be a pain in British winters / wet roads. This is the main reason I was concentrating on a C4 (and my 964 is a C4 and I'm perfectly happy with it). However - I know the 996 has pretty decent driver aids. So should I really be only looking at C4s? Will the C2 behave pretty well on wet roads / icy roads? I don't drive like a hooligan (most of the time) - but I'd like a car where I don't have to worry about wheel spinning out of junctions if the road is wet. Would the electronics in the C2 take care of this anyway?

A 99 is 10 years old now. If one you're looking at is still working and has actually been driven somewhat I don't think I'd worry about it any more.

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I own a C4, I've owned Audis, a Range Rover, and I can tell you that the biggest factor in the snow in ice are dedicated WINTER TIRES. In Southern England, you should be fine in a C2 with winter tires as long as there isn't really deep snow (12"). PSM will help keep the car going in the right direction. The Porsche AWD system (viscous slip diff) is nice in the bad weather, but not necessary. My next 911 is going to be RWD.

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I cannot agree with the part in bold enough. My C4 on summer tires may as well not even have AWD in the slick stuff. Tires make all the difference in the world.

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I was going to ask why you wanted a C4, maybe I'm just a C2 purist. LSD is a valuable option for traction, especially if you drive like Vic Elford.... Good luck on whatever you decide -- love to see some pics of your new 996 around Surrey! edit: did you see there's a good 996 buyer's guide in the current May issue of 911 & Porsche magazine?

Motors blow up with reckless abandon.

The C2 makes a great winter car. I've even driven mine in sudden snow storms on the summer Michelin PS2's. It handled as good or better than most of the cars around me. One suggestion from TireRack is that if you don't already have a set of winter tire/wheels, use 17" wheels for your winter tires. Both the tires and wheels are cheaper than 18" and the slightly narrower tire will give you better traction in the snow. The old VW bug was a great car in the winter on regular tires -- and seemed unstopable with snow tires. About 2 years ago, Road and Track compared 2wd with AWD for winter traction. As long as the engine was over the driving wheels -- they had a very hard time creating a situation where the 2wd would be stuck and the AWD wouldn't. Finally, when they took a ramp and iced one side so that both right tires were on ice, the 2wd (non LSD) car could't make progress, but the awd could. But under all other conditions, the 2wd did ok. Over the long haul, the simpler the car, the fewer the things to go wrong with it. I like the C4's for many reasons -- but chose the lighter, more nimble, less complicated & more fuel efficient C2 to own.

I've got a 99 C4 cab. About 50k miles. Bought with full service history since day one, from original owner and with a detailed PPI before purchase. Had the car a year now, and no major problems. In fact, the only thing I did was replace the ignition switch (common) with a $40 part and directions found on this site. Its my daily "summer" driver. I love the car, and have not regretted its purchase for one minute. Winter tires are a MUST if you plan to drive these cars in the winter. At least where we have "real" winters here in Canada. haha.

Thanks for all the replies. Having given it plenty of thought, I am still nervous about the 996 engines - even though I'm sure there are plenty that are trouble free. So I've decided to take an alternative approach. I am now on the lookout for a 996 turbo. There are only certain colour combinations I'll consider, it must be manual, 02 or later, and not starship mileage. I think it will probably take a while to find one (why are all cars silver these days?) - but I'm pretty sure it will be worth the wait. Obviously, I've increased my budget somewhat from the original post!

Sorry that you feel nervous about the base engines because the vast majority of owners have absolutely no issues. But obviously you will be the owner and must be comfortable in your "own bed" so to speak! Good luck with the search! Pete

if you can pull it of... its a good decision.

quite frankly if i could've bought a 996tt when i bought my 996, i would've, but not for any engine fears, but just because of the added HP

Well Dave i�m in the same initial position you were. That is, looking for an afordable everyday 996. But I am still keeping ahead. I�m considering a MY08 C2 tiptronic with 75K miles with fully stamped book and the right color combo on offer for 21,5 thousand euros. The price includes some lottery tickets for a reman engine though!!! I have still to see the car and "fully stamped book" with my very eyes but if all looks OK, I will be very close to a PPI and hopefully to a fully usable watercooled P-Car. As someone mentioned before in this thread, problems with early 996 should have arisen and taken care for already after 10 years if only blown engines which apparently can go hidden for longer both in 3.4 and 3.6 engines. Now, wish me good luck or give me some useful advice for my first view of the car in the flesh

Find one, buy it, drive it, enjoy it, wash it, wax it. Real simple.

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Forgot one critical word: Repeat! Sincerely, Macster.

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You aint kidding. Redridge I guess you are from britain isle area also. I'm sure both of you can appreciate the galvanized body with the amount of salt poured on your roads. The bottom of the car also has shields for protection. There sure was a lot early snow fall in england this year.